Given the current rumors (970 production in mars,etc.), I think it's possible apple might announce the much debated (here at AI anyway) "workstation mac" in April(shipping in May). That would let apple cash in on the high demand for these chips. The workstations would cost upwards of $6000, so the limited supply of chips wouldn't be a huge proplem. The fewer chips they have, the higher they price them. Then, when the 970 is available in large numbers, the powermacs get them (announced in August,Shipping in September-October). At this time, the workstations go quad!
Alternatively, the workstations might get the powermac name, and a consumer tower line is introduced to replace the current PMs.
Just speculating of course, but I dont think that initial limited supply of 970s, necessarily has to mean no shipping product 'till supplies are up.
PS: What ever happened to the 'riddles' thread. We now have the the agile mercury (12"PB)and the obstinate mercury(17"PB), don't we, he he. They were supposed to signal...
As for MrNSX's post on Ars, He might be alluding to the release of both the 970 and the hammer (the battlefront becoming interesting for more than one reason) -the beginning of the 64bit era in desktop computing. Wich might even be the beginning of the end for the M$ monopoly. If IBM,sony,apple and others play their cards right...
OR getting frictions burns as you fall down the rope you let go of...and realised, opps, better grab on...cos I let go and that was stupid?
"Neither have world beating CPUs."
I don't recall any world beating cpus...
"Apple's market share continued unabated through the reign of the 604 family, and the "Pentium crushing" era of the G3 mostly just slowed down the decline."
You're right when you say it aint just the cpu. But then, Apple didn't have all the other 'pieces of the puzzle' in place back then.
"Fast CPUs will not rescue Apple."
Tell that to 'power'Mac sales.
"They never have."
See above.
"Fast CPUs with excellent industrial design, a killer, standards-friendly OS and killer, standards-friendly software, combined with an aggressive retail strategy (yes, including pricing), just might start Apple growing notably faster than the overall market."
Yep. And now they need a cpu to go with it.
Couple with a 'priced to go' 'critical mass' fire starter...
"Remember, Apple's sales leader is their slowest machine: the iBook."
It is. (I can't believe you said that with a straight face. No way in hell it would be if there was a 970 in the 'power'Macs!) And if the iMacs been prices to go, better specs etc, then I'm confident it would have easily outsold the iBook. (I'm surprised the iMac sales are as good as they are with a year plus product spec and a price that went up and down but not down enough...often enough. Still, I'm sure Apple will address that soon...)
One of the reasons the Powerbook doesn't fly off the shelf. Price. (Should change the make-up of the Powerbook sales now we have a 12 incher that's cheaper than the Powerbooks we're used to...)
"Speed is not the be-all and end-all."
It's a significant 'end all' for Lightwave users. It's also significant for 'power'Mac buyers as Apple's well beaten sales figures for the sagging flagging flagship will testify to. (Or we could just blame, Quark, eh? Sorry, Apple...)
"It is for some markets, but not the ones that'll give Apple a big chunk of the other 97%."
You know I'm only going to agree with that when Motorola's 'rough patch' gets a sticky back plaster from IBM.
<strong>Given the current rumors (970 production in mars,etc.), I think it's possible apple might announce the much debated (here at AI anyway) "workstation mac" in April(shipping in May). That would let apple cash in on the high demand for these chips. The workstations would cost upwards of $6000, so the limited supply of chips wouldn't be a huge proplem. The fewer chips they have, the higher they price them. Then, when the 970 is available in large numbers, the powermacs get them (announced in August,Shipping in September-October). At this time, the workstations go quad!
Alternatively, the workstations might get the powermac name, and a consumer tower line is introduced to replace the current PMs.
Just speculating of course, but I dont think that initial limited supply of 970s, necessarily has to mean no shipping product 'till supplies are up.
PS: What ever happened to the 'riddles' thread. We now have the the agile mercury (12"PB)and the obstinate mercury(17"PB), don't we, he he. They were supposed to signal...
This wont help PowerMac sales at all, especially if the G4 only see's a boost to 1.4 Ghz. The market is expecting the 970 in desktop machines ASAP...in Apples position they need the 970's in desktop machines ASAP (a high end Workstation with a 970 will kill remaining PM sales as people who cant afford to buy them wait 6 months till their release in desktops, which Apple has to do becouse the G4 RM wont be ready for about a year, and with Moto producing it that scheduele will slip to 18 months), even if it is a stagered release. Save the Workstation edition for a 4 or 8 processor 970 and price them starting at $5500.
If PPC970 doesn't impress MrNSX, G4 @ 1.4GHz wouldn't either. He mentions graphics front as if to hint that an expected breakthrough is not related to it. If so, then what the hell is it? Internet-enabled watches? A QuickTime-equipped cell phone?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Costique:
I think you've misread these remarks, though that's easy enough to do when there's no context provided. We're all sure that the 970 will be mighty impressive when it arrives, but his comments would suggest (among other things) that either the 970 is not coming early (as some have suggested) or if it is, it will have graphics provided by Nvidia. Even if the new systems are exceedingly fast, that won't make him fall off his seat -- we all expect faster systems to come through.
But the big deal is that he has (unofficial) reasons to believe that Apple is going to do something remarkable this year, something that will make the other 95% sit up and take notice.
In this connection, does anyone remember Moki's remarks about a possible line of x86 Macs complementing (not supplanting) the PPC line? I tried digging up the post, but I couldn't get the search to work....
<strong>Apple should have made that 17" powerbook with a thin detachable keyboard so your hands aren't right up to the screen when you type at your desk. While we're on the subject of keyboards, there's more than enough room for a number pad! Why not include one and make it a true desktop replacement? That would have been a clincher.</strong><hr></blockquote>I think very few people really use the number pad. Most keyboards would do well without them. I'd give mine away to get some more desk space; also most people I know who happen to have wireless keyboards use them from their lap and then you have exactly the same balance problem that was mentioned already.
What I'd like to see in the 15" and 17" PBs is ergo keyboard with a small division in the center, and the halves slightly angled. Incidentally there's just enough space in the 15" model to do that. I've used ergo keyboard on my desktop and at work for three years now (those are the only Microsoft product I like!), and I'm really reluctant to go back into using a normal keyboard even if I get a laptop.
Apple is a leader in ease of use, then it could be the clear leader in ergonomics too. Definitely an industry first, and not a problem for the "normal folk" because PB is a pro machine and the 12" model can't accommodate an ergo keyboard.
<strong>I think very few people really use the number pad. Most keyboards would do well without them. I'd give mine away to get some more desk space; also most people I know who happen to have wireless keyboards use them from their lap and then you have exactly the same balance problem that was mentioned already.
What I'd like to see in the 15" and 17" PBs is ergo keyboard with a small division in the center, and the halves slightly angled. Incidentally there's just enough space in the 15" model to do that. I've used ergo keyboard on my desktop and at work for three years now (those are the only Microsoft product I like!), and I'm really reluctant to go back into using a normal keyboard even if I get a laptop.
Apple is a leader in ease of use, then it could be the clear leader in ergonomics too. Definitely an industry first, and not a problem for the "normal folk" because PB is a pro machine and the 12" model can't accommodate an ergo keyboard.
- Gon</strong><hr></blockquote>
For anyone who enters numbers a lot a number pad saves a lot of time. I dont, but still use it whenever I am entering long strings of numbers or when using a claculator program. It may only shave a half of a second per number entered, but that adds up fast. It is definatly a usefull productivity tool, even more so than a 2 button mouse, and buisness needs them.
Neither have world beating CPUs. Apple's market share continued unabated through the reign of the 604 family, and the "Pentium crushing" era of the G3 mostly just slowed down the decline.
Fast CPUs will not rescue Apple. They never have. Fast CPUs with excellent industrial design, a killer, standards-friendly OS and killer, standards-friendly software, combined with an aggressive retail strategy (yes, including pricing), just might start Apple growing notably faster than the overall market.
Remember, Apple's sales leader is their slowest machine: the iBook. Speed is not the be-all and end-all. It is for some markets, but not the ones that'll give Apple a big chunk of the other 97%.
<strong>For anyone who enters numbers a lot a number pad saves a lot of time. I dont, but still use it whenever I am entering long strings of numbers or when using a claculator program. It may only shave a half of a second per number entered, but that adds up fast. It is definatly a usefull productivity tool, even more so than a 2 button mouse, and buisness needs them.</strong><hr></blockquote>Sure, it's a good tool, but it's a very specialized tool nonetheless. It belongs to cash registers, accountant keyboards, manager keyboards, and some other places where a lot of numbers are typed regularly... as you said, business! But, you could strip it from 80% of all keyboards and get zero complaints.
More useful than two button mouse? LOL!
I find the numpad useful myself when I pay bills in bank's web service but that happens once a month. Even if the numpad saves me half a second per key, that adds up to at most a minute per month. Not enough to accept the fact that it weakens the keyboard ergonomically. I type quite a lot, and I'd prefer to have the middle of the letters, my head, and the middle of the screen all lined up. However, I'm righthanded and the configuration above places the numpad exactly where I'd like the mouse to be. As a result the keyboard is always slightly off center, maybe 5 cm, and my spine is rotated just enough to bring my hands comfortably on the keyboard. OK, it isn't a big thing, but if you sit on the computer as much as I do, the little things grow important.
It would seem that the numeric pads "sunk" into the middle of laptop letter keys suck even more, because the numbers aren't aligned properly. Do you think that kind of numpads are worth having in a laptop?
Comments
Alternatively, the workstations might get the powermac name, and a consumer tower line is introduced to replace the current PMs.
Just speculating of course, but I dont think that initial limited supply of 970s, necessarily has to mean no shipping product 'till supplies are up.
PS: What ever happened to the 'riddles' thread. We now have the the agile mercury (12"PB)and the obstinate mercury(17"PB), don't we, he he. They were supposed to signal...
...not shure I remember, actually.
[ 01-14-2003: Message edited by: LowB-ing ]</p>
Or...climbing up a greasy pole if you're Apple.
OR getting frictions burns as you fall down the rope you let go of...and realised, opps, better grab on...cos I let go and that was stupid?
"Neither have world beating CPUs."
I don't recall any world beating cpus...
"Apple's market share continued unabated through the reign of the 604 family, and the "Pentium crushing" era of the G3 mostly just slowed down the decline."
You're right when you say it aint just the cpu. But then, Apple didn't have all the other 'pieces of the puzzle' in place back then.
"Fast CPUs will not rescue Apple."
Tell that to 'power'Mac sales.
"They never have."
See above.
"Fast CPUs with excellent industrial design, a killer, standards-friendly OS and killer, standards-friendly software, combined with an aggressive retail strategy (yes, including pricing), just might start Apple growing notably faster than the overall market."
Yep. And now they need a cpu to go with it.
Couple with a 'priced to go' 'critical mass' fire starter...
"Remember, Apple's sales leader is their slowest machine: the iBook."
It is. (I can't believe you said that with a straight face. No way in hell it would be if there was a 970 in the 'power'Macs!)
One of the reasons the Powerbook doesn't fly off the shelf. Price. (Should change the make-up of the Powerbook sales now we have a 12 incher that's cheaper than the Powerbooks we're used to...)
"Speed is not the be-all and end-all."
It's a significant 'end all' for Lightwave users.
"It is for some markets, but not the ones that'll give Apple a big chunk of the other 97%."
You know I'm only going to agree with that when Motorola's 'rough patch' gets a sticky back plaster from IBM.
Lemon Bon Bon
<strong>Given the current rumors (970 production in mars,etc.), I think it's possible apple might announce the much debated (here at AI anyway) "workstation mac" in April(shipping in May). That would let apple cash in on the high demand for these chips. The workstations would cost upwards of $6000, so the limited supply of chips wouldn't be a huge proplem. The fewer chips they have, the higher they price them. Then, when the 970 is available in large numbers, the powermacs get them (announced in August,Shipping in September-October). At this time, the workstations go quad!
Alternatively, the workstations might get the powermac name, and a consumer tower line is introduced to replace the current PMs.
Just speculating of course, but I dont think that initial limited supply of 970s, necessarily has to mean no shipping product 'till supplies are up.
PS: What ever happened to the 'riddles' thread. We now have the the agile mercury (12"PB)and the obstinate mercury(17"PB), don't we, he he. They were supposed to signal...
...not shure I remember, actually.
[ 01-14-2003: Message edited by: LowB-ing ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
This wont help PowerMac sales at all, especially if the G4 only see's a boost to 1.4 Ghz. The market is expecting the 970 in desktop machines ASAP...in Apples position they need the 970's in desktop machines ASAP (a high end Workstation with a 970 will kill remaining PM sales as people who cant afford to buy them wait 6 months till their release in desktops, which Apple has to do becouse the G4 RM wont be ready for about a year, and with Moto producing it that scheduele will slip to 18 months), even if it is a stagered release. Save the Workstation edition for a 4 or 8 processor 970 and price them starting at $5500.
<strong>
If PPC970 doesn't impress MrNSX, G4 @ 1.4GHz wouldn't either. He mentions graphics front as if to hint that an expected breakthrough is not related to it. If so, then what the hell is it? Internet-enabled watches? A QuickTime-equipped cell phone?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Costique:
I think you've misread these remarks, though that's easy enough to do when there's no context provided. We're all sure that the 970 will be mighty impressive when it arrives, but his comments would suggest (among other things) that either the 970 is not coming early (as some have suggested) or if it is, it will have graphics provided by Nvidia. Even if the new systems are exceedingly fast, that won't make him fall off his seat -- we all expect faster systems to come through.
But the big deal is that he has (unofficial) reasons to believe that Apple is going to do something remarkable this year, something that will make the other 95% sit up and take notice.
In this connection, does anyone remember Moki's remarks about a possible line of x86 Macs complementing (not supplanting) the PPC line? I tried digging up the post, but I couldn't get the search to work....
<strong>Apple should have made that 17" powerbook with a thin detachable keyboard so your hands aren't right up to the screen when you type at your desk. While we're on the subject of keyboards, there's more than enough room for a number pad! Why not include one and make it a true desktop replacement? That would have been a clincher.</strong><hr></blockquote>I think very few people really use the number pad. Most keyboards would do well without them. I'd give mine away to get some more desk space; also most people I know who happen to have wireless keyboards use them from their lap and then you have exactly the same balance problem that was mentioned already.
What I'd like to see in the 15" and 17" PBs is ergo keyboard with a small division in the center, and the halves slightly angled. Incidentally there's just enough space in the 15" model to do that. I've used ergo keyboard on my desktop and at work for three years now (those are the only Microsoft product I like!), and I'm really reluctant to go back into using a normal keyboard even if I get a laptop.
Apple is a leader in ease of use, then it could be the clear leader in ergonomics too. Definitely an industry first, and not a problem for the "normal folk" because PB is a pro machine and the 12" model can't accommodate an ergo keyboard.
- Gon
<strong>I think very few people really use the number pad. Most keyboards would do well without them. I'd give mine away to get some more desk space; also most people I know who happen to have wireless keyboards use them from their lap and then you have exactly the same balance problem that was mentioned already.
What I'd like to see in the 15" and 17" PBs is ergo keyboard with a small division in the center, and the halves slightly angled. Incidentally there's just enough space in the 15" model to do that. I've used ergo keyboard on my desktop and at work for three years now (those are the only Microsoft product I like!), and I'm really reluctant to go back into using a normal keyboard even if I get a laptop.
Apple is a leader in ease of use, then it could be the clear leader in ergonomics too. Definitely an industry first, and not a problem for the "normal folk" because PB is a pro machine and the 12" model can't accommodate an ergo keyboard.
- Gon</strong><hr></blockquote>
For anyone who enters numbers a lot a number pad saves a lot of time. I dont, but still use it whenever I am entering long strings of numbers or when using a claculator program. It may only shave a half of a second per number entered, but that adds up fast. It is definatly a usefull productivity tool, even more so than a 2 button mouse, and buisness needs them.
<strong>
Neither have world beating CPUs. Apple's market share continued unabated through the reign of the 604 family, and the "Pentium crushing" era of the G3 mostly just slowed down the decline.
Fast CPUs will not rescue Apple. They never have. Fast CPUs with excellent industrial design, a killer, standards-friendly OS and killer, standards-friendly software, combined with an aggressive retail strategy (yes, including pricing), just might start Apple growing notably faster than the overall market.
Remember, Apple's sales leader is their slowest machine: the iBook. Speed is not the be-all and end-all. It is for some markets, but not the ones that'll give Apple a big chunk of the other 97%.
[ 01-14-2003: Message edited by: Amorph ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thank god this ain't Oprah, 'cause the level of "You Go Girl!" applause would probably crack this old CRT's bitter heart.
So I think a single "Damn Straight!" is about right from this here white guy.
Good Post Amorph.
<strong>For anyone who enters numbers a lot a number pad saves a lot of time. I dont, but still use it whenever I am entering long strings of numbers or when using a claculator program. It may only shave a half of a second per number entered, but that adds up fast. It is definatly a usefull productivity tool, even more so than a 2 button mouse, and buisness needs them.</strong><hr></blockquote>Sure, it's a good tool, but it's a very specialized tool nonetheless. It belongs to cash registers, accountant keyboards, manager keyboards, and some other places where a lot of numbers are typed regularly... as you said, business! But, you could strip it from 80% of all keyboards and get zero complaints.
More useful than two button mouse? LOL!
I find the numpad useful myself when I pay bills in bank's web service but that happens once a month. Even if the numpad saves me half a second per key, that adds up to at most a minute per month. Not enough to accept the fact that it weakens the keyboard ergonomically. I type quite a lot, and I'd prefer to have the middle of the letters, my head, and the middle of the screen all lined up. However, I'm righthanded and the configuration above places the numpad exactly where I'd like the mouse to be. As a result the keyboard is always slightly off center, maybe 5 cm, and my spine is rotated just enough to bring my hands comfortably on the keyboard. OK, it isn't a big thing, but if you sit on the computer as much as I do, the little things grow important.
It would seem that the numeric pads "sunk" into the middle of laptop letter keys suck even more, because the numbers aren't aligned properly. Do you think that kind of numpads are worth having in a laptop?
- Gon
[ 01-15-2003: Message edited by: Gon ]</p>
<strong>It [the 970] will have graphics provided by Nvidia.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You mean Macs with 970? Since I don't think a CPU has any relations to graphics accelerator.
<strong>
You mean Macs with 970? Since I don't think a CPU has any relations to graphics accelerator.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yep, I was speaking loosely. My bad.