The G5 Is Priced Like a Dell

snoopysnoopy
Posted:
in Current Mac Hardware edited January 2014
I plan to buy a 1.6 GHz G5 with a combo drive for 1799 dollars US. I compared its price to Dell. The Dell XPS is the only model available with a single serial ATA hard drive so I used that for comparison. I could not configure the Dell exactly like the G5 but came close. The Dell had a 120 GB hard drive, versus an 80 GB in the G5. It also had 128 MB of RAM on the GeForce FX 5200, rather than 64 MB for the G5 graphics card. It also had a floppy drive. This Dell sells for 2097 dollars US after the 200 dollar instant credit.



Since the Dell had 512 MB or RAM I adjusted the G5 price to 1924 dollars US, what Apple charges for this model with 512 MB of RAM. This is 173 dollars less than the Dell. Considering the few differences, I'd say the two are comparably priced. The Dell's price was with a 2.8 GHz P4.



The G5 is not over priced. Looking at how well the G5 is built I believe it is a much better value.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 86
    mount_my_floppymount_my_floppy Posts: 913member
    I think the G5`s price per performance is really good. Finally Apple has more reason to charge what it does for its machines. They actually deliver more than just a good user experience. They deliver speed to.



    PS. You know your going to get things like, Well I could build my own machine for blah blah or get a gateway for blah blah.. And I myself have never been to Dells site so I have not done price comparison of my own.
  • Reply 2 of 86
    compiledmonkeycompiledmonkey Posts: 10member
    But the Dell comes with a 19" monitor.
  • Reply 3 of 86
    kidredkidred Posts: 2,402member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by CompiledMonkey

    But the Dell comes with a 19" monitor.



    You mean one of those CRT things? Oh yea, I saw one on eBay one time, and I saw 3 guys carrying one too once.
  • Reply 4 of 86
    compiledmonkeycompiledmonkey Posts: 10member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by KidRed

    You mean one of those CRT things? Oh yea, I saw one on eBay one time, and I saw 3 guys carrying one too once.



    I'm not saying it is better (because it isn't), but it's quite stupid to say the prices are equal when you don't get a display with the Apple.



    Tell the three guys to get some strength.
  • Reply 5 of 86
    murbotmurbot Posts: 5,262member
    If you can't carry a 19" CRT you need to be put down. Just one, a temple shot will do.
  • Reply 6 of 86
    compiledmonkeycompiledmonkey Posts: 10member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by murbot

    If you can't carry a 19" CRT you need to be put down. Just one, a temple shot will do.



    Amen.
  • Reply 7 of 86
    snoopysnoopy Posts: 1,901member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by CompiledMonkey

    But the Dell comes with a 19" monitor.



    Not at the price I quoted. I did a custom configuration with no monitor. If you simply looked at their standard configuration, it does come with a monitor. I tried to get it as close as possible to the 1.6 GHz G5. I selected an SATA hard drive, a combo optical drive, Gigabit Ethernet, and so on, as well as deleted some items. I also selected software upgrades to try and match the iApps, like iPhoto, iTunes and iMovie.



    Now today, Dell is offering a free upgrade to 1 GB of RAM but no longer have the 200 dollar instant rebate. There is a mail-in rebate now. Evidently Dell keeps changing the deals they offer.



    I did a comparison again today taking a different approach. I found that there were a few item that can be made identical between Dell and the G5, such as a 250 GB SATA drive and the ATI 9800 Pro graphics card. So I upgraded the G5 and Dell with such items and Apple still came out cheaper, but the Dell was cheaper after a 100 mail-in rebate. One item in this G5 price was an additional 325 dollars for 1 GB of RAM from Apple. If someone were to add inexpensive RAM after purchase, the G5 would be cheaper. Dell's free upgrade to 1 GB of RAM is giving them an extra advantage over Apple's price, today.
  • Reply 8 of 86
    big macbig mac Posts: 480member
    It wasn't immediately apparent from your post which processor you selected. It's going to take awhile longer before we have a true real world feel for the comparative performance of the G5. But PS7_Bench is scoring it somewhere between a 2.4GHz and 2.8GHz P4. That's great in terms of MHz/Performance, but it's horrible in terms of priceerformance. It's actually difficult to buy a PC that's rated below 2.8GHz. Perhaps the G5 optimized plugin for Photoshop isn't that great, but that's the information we have to go on right now. And that's why I've been forced to sit on the fence awhile longer. If the 1.6 truly doesn't perform, I'll have to settle for an eMac or a used G4 and wait around until the G5 ramps up the MHz in the near future.
  • Reply 9 of 86
    ryaxnbryaxnb Posts: 583member
    But I could build my own for $1,700. Well, I probably could, but it would be a pain. I did get a Athlon 1Ghz (1.3Ghz P4-equiv.) for $500 once, probably would have cost $860 new. Now of course I mostly use an iBook.
  • Reply 10 of 86
    resres Posts: 711member
    Apple has finally closed the gap on performance, but you still pay a lot more for the privilege of owning an apple computer.



    If you start with the Dell Dimension 4600 instead of the XPS you can get a 2.4GHz P4, 512MB RAM, Radeon 9800, 4xDVD+RW/+R, Soundblaster card, 120GB Ultra ATA 100 (7200) hard drive, and Gigabit Ethernet. Price after $100.00 rebate: $1247.00



    I know that this is switching the serial ATA for a larger Ultra ATA100 hard drive, but this system is much more powerful then the standard 1.6GHz G5, and costs about $500 less.



    A Dell PC will still get you a lot more bang for your buck (but I'll be getting a new mac soon -- OSX is worth the extra money).
  • Reply 11 of 86
    snoopysnoopy Posts: 1,901member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Big Mac

    It wasn't immediately apparent from your post which processor you selected. . .



    I mentioned it in my first post. I picked the slowest P4 that Dell offers on that model, which is 2.8 GHz.
  • Reply 12 of 86
    snoopysnoopy Posts: 1,901member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Res





    . . .If you start with the Dell Dimension 4600 instead of the XPS you can get a 2.4GHz P4, 512MB RAM, Radeon 9800, 4xDVD+RW/+R, Soundblaster card, 120GB Ultra ATA 100 (7200) hard drive, and Gigabit Ethernet. Price after $100.00 rebate: $1247.00 . . .







    Well, I just tried this on the Dell site and got 1497 dollars before the 100 dollar mail-in rebate. I selected no monitor, no speakers, a GeForce FX 5200 graphics card, a 2.4 GHz P4, an 80 GB ultra ATA hard drive (the G5 has 80 GB SATA), Gigabit Ethernet, and combo optical drive. I added photo, movie and music software to make it more like the iApps. I also did not go with the XP Home version of Windows, but upgraded to make it closer to Mac OS X. I did not chose office or works software in my price comparisons, but took a productivity pack with Quicken. The G5 has iCal and Quicken.



    So the Dell Dimension 4600 comes in cheaper than the XPS but it lacks serial ATA and FireWire. If we add something for the value of SATA and FireWire, it is getting close to the price of a G5. Since the 4600 is down the ladder a few rungs from the XPS, I suspect there may be other shortcomings too.
  • Reply 13 of 86
    ryaxnbryaxnb Posts: 583member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Res

    Apple has finally closed the gap on performance, but you still pay a lot more for the privilege of owning an apple computer.



    If you start with the Dell Dimension 4600 instead of the XPS you can get a 2.4GHz P4, 512MB RAM, Radeon 9800, 4xDVD+RW/+R, Soundblaster card, 120GB Ultra ATA 100 (7200) hard drive, and Gigabit Ethernet. Price after $100.00 rebate: $1247.00



    I know that this is switching the serial ATA for a larger Ultra ATA100 hard drive, but this system is much more powerful then the standard 1.6GHz G5, and costs about $500 less.



    A Dell PC will still get you a lot more bang for your buck (but I'll be getting a new mac soon -- OSX is worth the extra money).



    Much more powerful? G5 1.6 is scoring up to 2.8 P4!
  • Reply 14 of 86
    resres Posts: 711member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by snoopy

    Well, I just tried this on the Dell site and got 1497 dollars before the 100 dollar mail-in rebate. I selected no monitor, no speakers, a GeForce FX 5200 graphics card, a 2.4 GHz P4, an 80 GB ultra ATA hard drive (the G5 has 80 GB SATA), Gigabit Ethernet, and combo optical drive. I added photo, movie and music software to make it more like the iApps. I also did not go with the XP Home version of Windows, but upgraded to make it closer to Mac OS X. I did not chose office or works software in my price comparisons, but took a productivity pack with Quicken. The G5 has iCal and Quicken.



    So the Dell Dimension 4600 comes in cheaper than the XPS but it lacks serial ATA and FireWire. If we add something for the value of SATA and FireWire, it is getting close to the price of a G5. Since the 4600 is down the ladder a few rungs from the XPS, I suspect there may be other shortcomings too.



    The 4600 is a much better buy. I kept the basic XP home addition and went with WordPerfect® Office11 (WordPerfect, Quattro pro, Presentations) and added Dell Movie Studio Essentials. Dell did not list one, but You can buy a PCI FireWire for under $20.00, and if you really want serial ATA for some reason you can get a card for $50.00. That would rase the cost to $1406.00 -- still way cheaper then the stock 1.6GHz G5.
  • Reply 15 of 86
    resres Posts: 711member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ryaxnb

    Much more powerful? G5 1.6 is scoring up to 2.8 P4!



    The 1.6GHz G5 seems to be working out somewhere between a 2.2 to 2.8GHz P4.



    It is the 128MB Radeon 9800 and 512MB of ram when compared to the 64MB NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra and 256MB of ram in the Mac that makes the Dell I configured more powerful (and $700 less expensive).



    If you insist on moving it up to a 2.8GHz P4 it will come$1447.00 -- Still over $500.00 cheaper then the $1,999.00 base price for the 1.6GHz G5.



    You cannot get around; when it comes to the mid and low end Macs, PCs are just cheaper (than Macs of equivalent computing power).



    Now the dual 2GHz G5 seems to holds up a lot better against the PC competition, and I hope that once it is shipping it will actually have a better price/performance ratio then the PCs.
  • Reply 16 of 86
    snoopysnoopy Posts: 1,901member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Res



    . . . If you insist on moving it up to a 2.8GHz P4 it will come$1447.00 -- Still over $500.00 cheaper then the $1,999.00 base price for the 1.6GHz G5. . .







    There are two problems with this comparison. First, I question the validity of using Dell's 4600 series. It is two steps down in their desktops and more of a consumer PC. The XPS and the 8300 series are above it. With the 1.6 GHz G5 on the other hand, we are getting much of the same hardware as the higher priced G5s. We are not getting a smaller, cheaper box with a noisier fan. I suspect there may be other quality differences between the XPS and 4600, the likes of which we don't see between the dual 2 GHz G5 and the 1.6 GHz G5. That is one reason I originally chose the XPS series and stripped it back to match the 1.6 GHz G5 as close as possible.



    The other issue is the hardware and software we selected on the 4600. I tried to make it as close as possible to the model I plan to purchase with a combo drive. This G5 sells for 1799 dollars, not 1999.



    I ran the pricing for the Dell 4600 again with a 2.8 GHz P4, to see how it compares with your figures. I selected the combo drive, not the DVD burner, and got 1457 dollars after the 100 dollar rebate. This is only 352 dollars less than the G5. I included no monitor, no speakers, no office software and just a one year warranty. I did include Dell Jukebox plus for iTunes, Dell Picture Studio Premium for iPhoto, Dell Movie Studio plus of iMovie, Windows XP Pro and MS Digital Media Enhancement Pack.



    The graphics card I chose this time was a 64 MB GeForce 4 MX, the cheapest card Dell offers. The Dell 4600 lacks the serial ATA drive and FireWire, but has 512 MB of RAM versus 256 MB in the G5.
  • Reply 17 of 86
    big macbig mac Posts: 480member
    Snoopy, you've really done a good job here convincing me to come back to the G5. The 1.6 is seriously overpriced in terms of regular consumer pricing, but one always expects Apple to wrench every last dollar out of the early adopters. The good news is education pricing is far more palatable. We'll see a $250 price cut matched with a speed bump around February.



    I'm still concerned about the PS7_Bench scores, but we'll have far more solid benchmark info in the coming weeks. And lest anyone chime in with the comment that benchmarks are totally meaningless, I beg to differ. Benchmarks are routinely blown way out of proportion, yes, but they're not totally meaningless. And it's not about computing pissing contests. The real reason why many of us are concerned is because of common sense. We're looking at price: performance because it is a major factor of machine valuation. We want to know how the machines perform because we have finite resources and are looking to invest wisely. No matter how great the user experience is, if our hardware is terribly underpowed in comparison to the competition, it becomes difficult to justify such a purchase.
  • Reply 18 of 86
    powerdocpowerdoc Posts: 8,123member
    I have compared my 17 inch powerbook with the Dell inspiron of my father : it's definitively not the same thing. Perhaps the motor of the Dell is more powerfull (it's a p4 M 2,4) but the chassis is definitively worse.

    It's like comparing a Bentley with a Lada.



    I do not see for real the G5 tower, now, but i think it's the same difference in term of design and quality of construction.
  • Reply 19 of 86
    patchoulipatchouli Posts: 402member
    There really shouldn't be any trickery or manipulations with the configurations when comparing prices. Pushing bias aside and in terms of hardware components and computing power, here is an honest comparison between Dell and Apple. Regardless of which platform you prefer, or how much you prefer Apple Software and unsurpassed style and design, here is what it looks like on paper to a casual buyer who just wants a powerful computer:



  • Reply 20 of 86
    klinuxklinux Posts: 453member
    Please, the next thing people will say is how much better G4 is better than any P4! Now that G5 is out maybe the "megahertz myth" myth will now be gone.



    In any case, you cannot argue that Apple is priced like a PC - even Jobs cannot argue that. Case in point: check out http://www.techbargains.com/. Look for "400SC".



    "This machine is a high end Intel 875P chipset board with 400/533/800Mhz Bus CPU support, dual channel DDR400 memory, AGP 8x video card slot, Gigabit Ethernet, Serial ATA interface."



    Price? $299 after rebate with free shipping. Spec? "Celeron 2Ghz, 128MB DDR333 ECC/40GB 48x CD" Sure, the specs are not the same but for $2000, I am sure you can make up the difference in some other ways.



    Apple products are superior. I expect (and do) pay a premium for it. But to try to argue it actually cost the same? I don't think so.
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