Personally, I used to like building my own as well because it was fun. Now my time is more valuable. Guess I am getting old!
Anyway, Dell overpriced? The consensus seems to be against you. Check FatWallet, Techbargains, or GotApex. Most people would say Dell's price is hard to beat if impossible. And this is against every PC vendor - Apple, Gateway, Compaq, etc - or even build your own.
Case in point: take my favorite whipping boy, the 400SC. An Intel i875P chipset motherboard got be, say $150? A Celly 2.0 (highly overclockable and stable to 3 ghz - if you are into that) is $70? 40 GB HD - say $40. We are already at $260 and you are not counting in an optical drive, RAM, power supply, a case, shipping, etc. There's also the time of putting it together! (BTW, now you also get a KB and mouse for the $299. I know, whoopity-f***ing-doo!) Also, don't forget the time of putting one together!
I would still put together my own PC for special purposes (HTPC? Car PC? SFF?) but if you want a no-frill machine, I'd say it's hard to beat Dell.
BTW, to keep this on topic (I am a stickler!), had this been a thread about eMac vs Dell, I probably would have kept out of this. PC vs Mac arguments seems to be what Mac users do here when they run out of things to talk about. But to say G5 is priced like a Dell? Nah....
Yes, if you want a totally striped low end server to run linux on your whipping boy is hard to beat (at least while the rebate is still going), but when you look Dell's desktops in configurations that people will actually want to buy, they are more expensive than building one yourself.
Now back to the topic. I said earlier that the only Apple product that matched or exceeded the PCs in price/performance was the dual 2GHz G5 -- I forgot to mention the Xserves! They also do very well against the competition.
I think that Apple did a good job in catching up to the performance of the PCs with the new G5s, and I think that the next revision will probably be more aggressively priced.
Yes, if you want a totally striped low end server to run linux on your whipping boy is hard to beat (at least while the rebate is still going), but when you look Dell's desktops in configurations that people will actually want to buy, they are more expensive than building one yourself.
Now back to the topic. I said earlier that the only Apple product that matched or exceeded the PCs in price/performance was the dual 2GHz G5 -- I forgot to mention the Xserves! They also do very well against the competition.
I think that Apple did a good job in catching up to the performance of the PCs with the new G5s, and I think that the next revision will probably be more aggressively priced.
First, Dell always have some kind of rebate/promotion going, so it is not as if that is a special one-time only pricing or anything.
Second, I have found that Mac users are used to the mentality of a machine should be all-purpose, whether you NEED it or not. Therefore, the G5 is built so that 99% of users out there can use it as is, whether you are using it as a web server, gaming machine, DTP, a/v editing, or a pure number cruncher.
The PC industry is not like that. What if I do not game? Do I need the latest graphic card when a MX series would do? What if I don't do audio related and thus the optical in/out would be useless to me? For the same reason, that is why you see the fragmentation in the PC laptop market. You have some users who want the 10 lb desktop replacements and those that have the <2 lb subnotes. People make different choices based on their needs - who are we to dictate to them that they are not making the right choice?
Sure, it would be great if every laptop is built like the 17" PB, powerful and portable and priced cheap enough. Alas, the world is not like that.
So, I am not saying either Apple's practice is superior or if Dell's is better. Apple wins by its integration and its innovation. PC wins by its performance and its price. Not too complicated.
This topic has likely been discussed too much already, and the general consensus from this experienced group is that we can buy an equivalent Dell for substantially less than a 1.6 or 1.8 GHz G5 Power Mac. Several examples were given. Yet today I saw a two page ad for Dell workstations in the October issue of Wired. The cheapest one was a Precision 360 without monitor for $2499 US, normally $2899.
The only conclusion, if I believe what has been posted, is that Dell also has models to sell to very naive customers who don't mind paying a lot more than they need to. After seeing this ad, I hate to let the discussion end with an impression that buying Dell automatically means a better price than Apple. I have a real life comparison.
Last week I picked up a 1.6 GHz G5 with a combo drive from a local Mac dealer. The dealer had a promotion on the G5 models, and the price was $1850 US, which included extra RAM for a total of 768 MB. My G5 was $649 less than the Dell. The Dell may have just a tad faster processor by benchmarks, a 3.0 GH P4. I have 256 MB less RAM, a 33 percent smaller hard drive, and a lower performing graphics card. Personally, I would not pay $649 for this difference.
Well, the thing is, with Apple computers, you cannot really shop around all that much. Most retailers have similar prices with a few cheap freebies thrown in.
With PC retailers, you HAVE to shop around if you don't want to pay retail prices. In many case, you can get the same performance for a lot cheaper.
Comments
Originally posted by klinux
Personally, I used to like building my own as well because it was fun. Now my time is more valuable. Guess I am getting old!
Anyway, Dell overpriced? The consensus seems to be against you. Check FatWallet, Techbargains, or GotApex. Most people would say Dell's price is hard to beat if impossible. And this is against every PC vendor - Apple, Gateway, Compaq, etc - or even build your own.
Case in point: take my favorite whipping boy, the 400SC. An Intel i875P chipset motherboard got be, say $150? A Celly 2.0 (highly overclockable and stable to 3 ghz - if you are into that) is $70? 40 GB HD - say $40. We are already at $260 and you are not counting in an optical drive, RAM, power supply, a case, shipping, etc. There's also the time of putting it together! (BTW, now you also get a KB and mouse for the $299. I know, whoopity-f***ing-doo!) Also, don't forget the time of putting one together!
I would still put together my own PC for special purposes (HTPC? Car PC? SFF?) but if you want a no-frill machine, I'd say it's hard to beat Dell.
BTW, to keep this on topic (I am a stickler!), had this been a thread about eMac vs Dell, I probably would have kept out of this. PC vs Mac arguments seems to be what Mac users do here when they run out of things to talk about.
Yes, if you want a totally striped low end server to run linux on your whipping boy is hard to beat (at least while the rebate is still going), but when you look Dell's desktops in configurations that people will actually want to buy, they are more expensive than building one yourself.
Now back to the topic. I said earlier that the only Apple product that matched or exceeded the PCs in price/performance was the dual 2GHz G5 -- I forgot to mention the Xserves! They also do very well against the competition.
I think that Apple did a good job in catching up to the performance of the PCs with the new G5s, and I think that the next revision will probably be more aggressively priced.
See: http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...hreadid=175266
Interestingly, it was cheaper than Dell!
Reason why they bought it from Apple:
Slide Four
Choosing the Right Architechture
- cost vs. performance (purely)
- total cost $5.2 million includes system itself, memory, storage, and communication fabrics
- one of the cheapest systems of its kind
Slide Five
Architectural Options [or something like that]
- Dell - too expensive [one of the reasons for the project being so "hush hush" was that dell was exploring pricing options during bidding]
- Sun (sparc) - required too many processors, also too expensive
- IBM/AMD (opteron) - required twice the number of processors and was twice the price in the desired configuration; had no chassis available
- HP (itanium) - ditto
- Apple (IBM PPC970) - system available with chassis for lowest price
Originally posted by Res
Yes, if you want a totally striped low end server to run linux on your whipping boy is hard to beat (at least while the rebate is still going), but when you look Dell's desktops in configurations that people will actually want to buy, they are more expensive than building one yourself.
Now back to the topic. I said earlier that the only Apple product that matched or exceeded the PCs in price/performance was the dual 2GHz G5 -- I forgot to mention the Xserves! They also do very well against the competition.
I think that Apple did a good job in catching up to the performance of the PCs with the new G5s, and I think that the next revision will probably be more aggressively priced.
First, Dell always have some kind of rebate/promotion going, so it is not as if that is a special one-time only pricing or anything.
Second, I have found that Mac users are used to the mentality of a machine should be all-purpose, whether you NEED it or not. Therefore, the G5 is built so that 99% of users out there can use it as is, whether you are using it as a web server, gaming machine, DTP, a/v editing, or a pure number cruncher.
The PC industry is not like that. What if I do not game? Do I need the latest graphic card when a MX series would do? What if I don't do audio related and thus the optical in/out would be useless to me? For the same reason, that is why you see the fragmentation in the PC laptop market. You have some users who want the 10 lb desktop replacements and those that have the <2 lb subnotes. People make different choices based on their needs - who are we to dictate to them that they are not making the right choice?
Sure, it would be great if every laptop is built like the 17" PB, powerful and portable and priced cheap enough. Alas, the world is not like that.
So, I am not saying either Apple's practice is superior or if Dell's is better. Apple wins by its integration and its innovation. PC wins by its performance and its price. Not too complicated.
But the Dell comes with a 19" monitor.
Although it is only a crt monitor I find that having a screen helps in my computers functionallity.
This means that you'll have to add a monitor to your G5 calculation before you compare prices.
G5's are a lot more pricey then, but as we all know worth every penny.
The only conclusion, if I believe what has been posted, is that Dell also has models to sell to very naive customers who don't mind paying a lot more than they need to. After seeing this ad, I hate to let the discussion end with an impression that buying Dell automatically means a better price than Apple. I have a real life comparison.
Last week I picked up a 1.6 GHz G5 with a combo drive from a local Mac dealer. The dealer had a promotion on the G5 models, and the price was $1850 US, which included extra RAM for a total of 768 MB. My G5 was $649 less than the Dell. The Dell may have just a tad faster processor by benchmarks, a 3.0 GH P4. I have 256 MB less RAM, a 33 percent smaller hard drive, and a lower performing graphics card. Personally, I would not pay $649 for this difference.
With PC retailers, you HAVE to shop around if you don't want to pay retail prices. In many case, you can get the same performance for a lot cheaper.