Immigrants, including Mexican-Americans, will take over jobs abdicated en masse by other workers. It's inevitable. Why do you think they frequently work the most dangerous, physically demanding jobs?
I'm dead set on exposing you for the hypocritical, dishonest, dirty debater you are. You have a big mountain to climb to prove this one.
I already did explain it, learn to read.
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Her claim wasn't that a Mexican would take the job but that Mexican COUPLES would take the job. You and she can try to spin it in any manner you like, but the point is that she was just making an assumption, based on race that was absolutely dead wrong.
Here is the definition of prejudice...
An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts.
Here is the definition of racism
Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
She made her judgement with no facts. She assumed they would do it because they were Mexican.
Racism to me, regardless of what you want to repeat, namecall, spin, or whatever. Prejudice does not have to start with bad intent, it starts with ignorance and that is exactly what she displayed.
So expose away. You can't because what I said is true. I CHALLENGE you to find a link that shows that the trend of stay at home mothers hasn't been growing, especially due to Hispanic influence.
And again with the names, I suppose the list has to get longer because god-forbid you have to repeat yourself instead of say, refuting what I claim with things like links, facts, evidence, etc.
Mexicans do take over certain industries and so do other ethnic groups. However if I claimed that say Jewish immigrants would go work in vegetable fields you would likely laugh out loud at that claim. However Jewish immigrants have a history of going into skilled trades.
A lot of Koreans/Indians own convenience stores. A lot of Chinese immigrants open restaurants. I don't consider those the most physically demanding jobs do you?
As usual your claims are 100% bullshit. There are some Mexican immigrants that do physical labor. This is true of all groups. The fact that certain groups get into a vocational niche, consider it a strong area and then have a whole lot of their peers follow is like saying the Earth goes around the sun. It is true of all groups, not just Mexicans nor just immigrants. Gee women go into teaching and nursing disportionately. Seems like a whole lot of white men went into computers and are now pissed their jobs are going to SKILLED workers in India.
See Shawn you bias is that you assume all immigrants poorly educated, unskilled, and likely only capable of manual labor.
However immigrants are capable of taking over all sorts of fields in mass, not just unskilled ones. There are so many Filipino nurses your head would spin, but I suppose they have to be digging a hole or working in a field to be an "immigrant" to you.
Here are some of these.... I like to call them links..perhaps you can start using them too.
She said COUPLES claiming that if other moms decided to stay home with their children, the Mexican (her words) moms would dump the kids and go to work in their place.
However they have a different set of priorities than us.
Of course if "I" assumed my set of priorities were better than "Mexican" priorities or even that the should adopt mine because mine are better, it would be seen as racism.
That's exactly what it is in her case. Spin, spin, spin away and of course call names too because that is all you can do.
Every year they measure the gains in productivity. Eventually there is just less work to do. Farms don't as much labor today as they did 100 years ago. I can't think of any industry that does require more labor now than it did in the past once growth has been factored in.
That is why France passed the 35 hour work week. Eventually there will just be fewer jobs. It was passed by Socialists, it is considered... PROGRESSIVE to work fewer hours and still get the same amount of pay.
Even if a different ethnic group would take the job, all it means is that they are willing to be EXPLOITED and why the hell would you accept or encourage that?
SDW, there are plenty of folks who live on half of what your family makes
[..] My wife and I had to move from the beach in order to avoid bad neighborhoods every couple miles and housing prices that would have us running to stand still.
[...] People might have to rent instead of own. They might have to live in an apartment or condo instead of a home with a lot. They might have to own a used car instead of new. They might use the library instead of Amazon, etc.
[...] My first house when we moved away from the beach is a 4 bedroom 3 bath house with a pool and spa. [...]
There sure are plenty of people who make less than half or just a really small part of what your family makes as money.
Most of the small income people / families can not move from a bad neighborhood to a good one. When you don't have MONEY you can't decide that Skokie is nicer than South of Pilsen. Or that Notarbartolo is more cool than the worst parts of the old city.
Many people rent because they can not think about owning their own. If your income is 300 $, your spouse's 500 $ and rent takes 300, food 300, tell me how you can buy a house? Those numbers are possible, medium incomes of a 25-35 y old couple in Southern Italy. Both with degree, and 1-5 y work experience, on a field their degree suggests. If you are female, you won't get over 300. If you want to live alone, you can barely have a shared bedroom with someone else, water in the best case even every day, and be able even to eat with what you earn. If you have no phone, and buy no clothes, and live with only your salary, not eating the average of 2,000 + cals a day, you may with 6 - 12 months savings get yourself a used mac. If your parents are nobody, you are nobody and not involved in any illegal method of earning money, or in anything organized by criminal organizations, you will not get more. There are places (countryside) where you get less. And in many parts of Mexico, eastern Europe, Africa, any poorer zone or poorer country it is the same.
If you can not have a place of your own, even rented, while you try to live legally, before you are 35 or 40 there is somehting wrong. People go, they go to places where they can LIVE and not SURVIVE. You go to UK to was dishes or working in a warehouse, brcause you get more money, easier and you can LIVE. And live even if you have only the minimum legal income.
When you know what you had, and what are your real possibilities living where you chose not to live anymore, you get what you can and adapt to the possibilities.
When your graduated income is not enough to make you have a studio apartment rent AND pay for food, or phone, or computers, or to buy clothes or to go anywhere, you just DON'T talk about buying a 4 or 5 bedroom house anywhere. You don't talk, you have no voice, you just go or disappear. And when you start your life somewhere else, you are just happy that there is someone who does not need the work you want as much as you do.
She said COUPLES claiming that if other moms decided to stay home with their children, the Mexican (her words) moms would dump the kids and go to work in their place.
She did NOT say that Mexican women would dump their kids and go work. This is your own bias distorting what you read.
A lot of Koreans/Indians own convenience stores. A lot of Chinese immigrants open restaurants. I don't consider those the most physically demanding jobs do you?
[...] As usual your claims are 100% bullshit. There are some Mexican immigrants that do physical labor. This is true of all groups. The fact that certain groups get into a vocational niche, consider it a strong area and then have a whole lot of their peers follow is like saying the Earth goes around the sun. It is true of all groups, not just Mexicans nor just immigrants. Gee women go into teaching and nursing disportionately. Seems like a whole lot of white men went into computers and are now pissed their jobs are going to SKILLED workers in India.
See Shawn you bias is that you assume all immigrants poorly educated, unskilled, and likely only capable of manual labor.
However immigrants are capable of taking over all sorts of fields in mass, not just unskilled ones.
[...]
However they have a different set of priorities than us.
[..] That is why France passed the 35 hour work week.
Don't estimate what is hard work and what is not. You haven't ever worked in a restaurant, have you? You haven't worked in a convenience store 70 hours a week, have you?
There are a lot of educated emigrants. True. Even most of the Africans I've known in Northern Europe are educated. Doctors, engineers, at least nurses, advocates .. do they get a job they could because of their degree? My cousin worked part time in a cleaning company in Northern Europe. She was doing part time university, and is 20 something. She is the boss of her team, but she is the less educated there. The other workers are emigrants. Doctors, lawyers, engineers .. cleaning. Because the people don't like their skin or hair color. Still, even cleaning you make more than you could have made home in [...] whereever. You can be with an Oxford or Yale degree, but if the local people are racists enough, or you don't speak their language, the best you can get is cleaning, warehouses etc.
Hispanics can have different PRIORITIES than the WASP but they may have more NEED to have two incomes that often together are not nearly as big as your one. The NEED tends to go over PRIORITY.
I don't personally care what France or UK working hours per week are. If I go to UK to work, I work for a short period of time as much as I can. That is simply more money. If the hours allowed are 35 / week, I sure make more extra doing 70.
Nick, I wish you would live one year of your life in a poor country.
Care to explain how Mexican women would be able to go to work when every other group has had to begin disportionately using day care?
My "bias" is reality for every other ethnic group. You can explain how it would be different for what she claimed.
The NEED goes over the PRIORITY. I may _prefer_ to do do something, but if I have no choise, I have to do what I NEED to do.
If I had kids and PREFERRED to stay home with them, if there was not enough money I still would NEED to work.
Kids are no necessity. When you don't have money to raise them, Nick, you don't have them. And when you calculate how much the kids cost you, you should not have them either.
A hispanic and Latin family is often composed of parents, kids, grandparents, uncles etc etc. If both parents are in work, the grandparents can do something useful and watch the kids. That was the traditional way. Blacks tend to have parents and kids only families, like most whites. Thus they ned day care, and care for their elderly too.
Don't estimate what is hard work and what is not. You haven't ever worked in a restaurant, have you? You haven't worked in a convenience store 70 hours a week, have you?
There are a lot of educated emigrants. True. Even most of the Africans I've known in Northern Europe are educated. Doctors, engineers, at least nurses, advocates .. do they get a job they could because of their degree? My cousin worked part time in a cleaning company in Northern Europe. She was doing part time university, and is 20 something. She is the boss of her team, but she is the less educated there. The other workers are emigrants. Doctors, lawyers, engineers .. cleaning. Because the people don't like their skin or hair color. Still, even cleaning you make more than you could have made home in [...] whereever. You can be with an Oxford or Yale degree, but if the local people are racists enough, or you don't speak their language, the best you can get is cleaning, warehouses etc.
Hispanics can have different PRIORITIES than the WASP but they may have more NEED to have two incomes that often together are not nearly as big as your one. The NEED tends to go over PRIORITY.
I don't personally care what France or UK working hours per week are. If I go to UK to work, I work for a short period of time as much as I can. That is simply more money. If the hours allowed are 35 / week, I sure make more extra doing 70.
Nick, I wish you would live one year of your life in a poor country.
Gia, I wish you would stop making assumptions about people based off their race.
I assure you I have worked 70 hour weeks. I have even worked full time while attending university full time. I've worked services sector jobs like restaurants. I've worked as direct care staff for disabled adults. (Want to clean up 5 lbs of poop and lift 180 lbs boys/men?) I've been a dishwasher, bused tables, stocked store shelves, busted out ceramic tile and installed cabinets in the winter homes of the rich in Palm Springs (During the summer), cleaned up dirt and grease at auto/truck garages, etc.
I've done whatever it takes to get by just like anyone else.
I've also worked with people who have not had their degrees recognized in the United States. When I was a gas station cashier (bad part of town, and hey I do believe those have "convenience stores" in them which I did stock as well) the mechanic was from Iran and had an engineering degree. His degree was not recognized here and so he was working as a mechanic.
The issue could be racism in some places, but I don't believe that the case here. It is language and having the degree evaluated. If I were to leave California and attempt to teach in another state, my degree and my credential would be evaluated to see if I could teach there. If it were found lacking, I wouldn't be allowed and I am a white male. Likewise when I was dating a Filipino woman she was a nurse and was working privately for a family while attempting to pass the test verifying her degree from the Philipines.
Are you honestly telling me that if I went to Italy, for example that they would recognize my degree with no processing, and I could get a job earning what I earn here, even while speaking no Italian?
Would that be racism if they didn't even while I happen to be majority Italian in my ancestry?
The Hispanics may have more a necessity for two incomes, but the point is they disproportionately find a way to stay home because of their priorities. In otherwords they find a way to meet their needs and still stay home. Meanwhile you have WASP's declaring they NEED two incomes even when they have incomes that are above the national average with one income. The point is that they have declared their WANTS to be NEEDS. They NEED that 4 bedroom, $200k+ home. They NEED two new cars in the driveway. They NEED a vacation on a cruise ship or abroad.
They don't NEED these things. Likewise the sacrifices to get them can show priorities that are out of whack when we see that out of all the adults and people their children interact with, their own parents are often last on the list.
Tell me what conditions you have lived in that you consider poverty Gia. When I was in college, I rented out a poorly enclosed porch as a room from a woman so I could afford to go to school. It didn't even have a heat source, or kitchen. I did have access to the bathroom though. Of course at least that one was rented alone. We can also go into accomodations I "shared" or when I was homeless for about 2 months and lived in my Subaru Brat with camper shell.
I think you assume entirely to much about a person based off their skin color.
Gia, I wish you would stop making assumptions about people based off their race.
...
I think you assume entirely to much about a person based off their skin color.
And you haven't supported this claim in the least. You're attacking someone when their point is valid, but you're attacking them personally (albeit backhandedly) without supporting your point.
Are you honestly telling me that if I went to Italy, for example that they would recognize my degree with no processing, and I could get a job earning what I earn here, even while speaking no Italian?
Would that be racism if they didn't even while I happen to be majority Italian in my ancestry?
The Hispanics may have more a necessity for two incomes, but the point is they disproportionately find a way to stay home because of their priorities. In otherwords they find a way to meet their needs and still stay home. Meanwhile you have WASP's declaring they NEED two incomes even when they have incomes that are above the national average with one income. The point is that they have declared their WANTS to be NEEDS. They NEED that 4 bedroom, $200k+ home. They NEED two new cars in the driveway. They NEED a vacation on a cruise ship or abroad.
They don't NEED these things. Likewise the sacrifices to get them can show priorities that are out of whack when we see that out of all the adults and people their children interact with, their own parents are often last on the list.
Tell me what conditions you have lived in that you consider poverty Gia. When I was in college, I rented out a poorly enclosed porch as a room from a woman so I could afford to go to school. It didn't even have a heat source, or kitchen. I did have access to the bathroom though. Of course at least that one was rented alone. We can also go into accomodations I "shared" or when I was homeless for about 2 months and lived in my Subaru Brat with camper shell.
I think you assume entirely to much about a person based off their skin color.
Happy to see you have lived and actually worked on also other than your teacher job, nick.
You would absolutely not get a job in Italy with your degree, earning what you earn here. Even if your degree was Italian, you were Italian and you knew the right persons. If you are a university director of department, your income (male) is about 2,500 $ / mo. Minus taxes.
It is far more viable one with a degree from any Italian university chooses to go anywhere elsewhere to live (vs. survive).
But you are not Italian, you don't speak Italian .. wait for a few years for processing your degree, do more exams, pay for 30 different offices for doing more paper to process you, apply for 60 different licences and licences to stay and to work. And you may end up either teaching English or working for any American company. Anyone having an accent is looked down .. in most cases. In most places. Wait, you would not pass those tests as you don't speak Italian.
What I ment with the previous post example of not mastering the language correctly was to useless languages such as Finnish or Norwegian. If they don't want you and even when 95 % of the population speaks good english, you can always be refused as your that language is not perfect. You could spend there the next 20 years of my life and still be not perfect.
Yes, wants are declared as needs. Too often. And refusing many "needs" one looks ascetic. I don't need 3 cars, 4 rooms, dishwashers, electrical tin openers, matching luggage ..
I don't consider myself having lived really in poverty. I worked one summer in Slovakia, and my salary was 125 $ a month. That was an average pay in 1997 there. I shared one room with a Finnish married guy (I have forgotten his name), an Italian and Croatian guy, a Greek girl and so on. 4 bunk beds, 2 long divided desks from the 70s, single windows, mini bathroom with at least hot water, one mini kitchen and fridge for 22 rooms (90 students) .. no fridge, no kitchen in practise. Yet it was not that bad.
I shared my 10 sq meter room in UK with a friend for a few months. We both were withoug grants. I've lived in several places with 5-6 other people in 4-5 bedroom apartment. I don't want to go to talk about poverty. Oh, water home in Palermo every 2 days 6 am to midday. Sometimes it went away earlier. And last few years it's been ever 2 - 3 days. And in some cities water a few hours every 6 days. Having 4 showers a day feels so form an other planet when you can as opposed to that have one every few days. Yet you don't NEED water every day, just PREFER it..
And you haven't supported this claim in the least. You're attacking someone when their point is valid, but you're attacking them personally (albeit backhandedly) without supporting your point.
She hasn't mentioned skin color at all, you are.
She has made reference to me and my supposed in ability to have experience poverty due to my racial background.
She claimed racism keeps down people with degrees from other countries and who don't speak the language of that country, even while admitting that I would encounter the same issues in Italy and I happen to be over half Italian and a "white male."
She has made numerous declarations about WASP's and Mexicans.
Happy to see you have lived and actually worked on also other than your teacher job, nick.
Oh how could I have worked Gia? According to you that isn't possible. I just must have had things handed to me for being a white male right?
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You would absolutely not get a job in Italy with your degree, earning what you earn here. Even if your degree was Italian, you were Italian and you knew the right persons. If you are a university director of department, your income (male) is about 2,500 $ / mo. Minus taxes.
It is far more viable one with a degree from any Italian university chooses to go anywhere elsewhere to live (vs. survive).
But you are not Italian, you don't speak Italian .. wait for a few years for processing your degree, do more exams, pay for 30 different offices for doing more paper to process you, apply for 60 different licences and licences to stay and to work. And you may end up either teaching English or working for any American company. Anyone having an accent is looked down .. in most cases. In most places. Wait, you would not pass those tests as you don't speak Italian.
What I ment with the previous post example of not mastering the language correctly was to useless languages such as Finnish or Norwegian. If they don't want you and even when 95 % of the population speaks good english, you can always be refused as your that language is not perfect. You could spend there the next 20 years of my life and still be not perfect.
(more sarcasm)
Oh but I thought the lower earnings, lack of degree recognition, and not being able to earn with their degree were all RACISM. How could that possibly happen to me when I am a white male?
You prove my point which is that all countries have these procedures and subject everyone to them equally. It happened to affect people who immigrant from one country to another, say the United States, because the immigration is only one way. There are not millions clamoring to immigrate to Mexico (retire, yes, immigrant no) from the United States or say from the United States to India. (Exactly what caste would I be in anyway?) So the procedures tend to disproportionately affect certain groups. However you said yourself that if I went through the process to move to another country, the same issues would arise. That means it is independent from racism.
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I don't consider myself having lived really in poverty. I worked one summer in Slovakia, and my salary was 125 $ a month. That was an average pay in 1997 there. I shared one room with a Finnish married guy (I have forgotten his name), an Italian and Croatian guy, a Greek girl and so on. 4 bunk beds, 2 long divided desks from the 70s, single windows, mini bathroom with at least hot water, one mini kitchen and fridge for 22 rooms (90 students) .. no fridge, no kitchen in practise. Yet it was not that bad.
I shared my 10 sq meter room in UK with a friend for a few months. We both were withoug grants. I've lived in several places with 5-6 other people in 4-5 bedroom apartment. I don't want to go to talk about poverty. Oh, water home in Palermo every 2 days 6 am to midday. Sometimes it went away earlier. And last few years it's been ever 2 - 3 days. And in some cities water a few hours every 6 days. Having 4 showers a day feels so form an other planet when you can as opposed to that have one every few days. Yet you don't NEED water every day, just PREFER it..
So basically you are telling me to go experience poverty to understand it, not knowing I have already experienced it to the point of being homeless, while you yourself can make judgements and understand it while not having truly experienced these issues.
Yep, it just keeps getting thicker in here from you guys.. (the bullshit)
There are certainly other issues to consider in addition to income. A full time job often enhances the person's (either man or woman) self esteem, confidence and other psychological elements that contributes to a better family life. Additionally, a person who is pushed into a working environment is more adept at handling different circumstances than someone who is at home all the time. Taking time out to take care of the new arrival- child, is good and would be valuable but out of the working environment for too long dulls the social and societal senses and may end up creating gaps between the mates.
Oh how could I have worked Gia? According to you that isn't possible. I just must have had things handed to me for being a white male right?
[...]
Oh but I thought the lower earnings, lack of degree recognition, and not being able to earn with their degree were all RACISM. How could that possibly happen to me when I am a white male?
[...]
So basically you are telling me to go experience poverty to understand it, not knowing I have already experienced it to the point of being homeless, while you yourself can make judgements and understand it while not having truly experienced these issues.
You just sound like you have only had your degree, and worked only in white collar works.
Racism can happen to anyone. In one of my jobs in UK there was one boss who was racist. A black British who did not like the whites.
Yes. Live the poverty and understand it. When the hot water is the only luxury you have, after turning back to "normality" I assume you don't "NEED" the 4+X room houses, 3 trucks, etc etc etc. The fact I did not start to list any of the poverty issues I have had does not mean I have not lived them. I am skinny but sometimes it was also because I had 4 £ to spend for food in a week (before getting one more job). That's about 2 coffees if I drink out, or one coffee and 4 cans of beans from Sainsbury's.
SDW, there are plenty of folks who live on half of what your family makes. As usual your presumptions lead to your own conclusions. You speak of an "area" as if you had a right to live there or that living outside that area would = death or something of that nature. That just isn't true. I have no doubt that the "needs" expressed in your homebuying go well above a true "need" and into the "want" category.
My wife and I had to move from the beach in order to avoid bad neighborhoods every couple miles and housing prices that would have us running to stand still. As a teacher you have much more flexibility than most because there happen to be schools and kids just about everywhere.
What is even funnier is you are one of the chief preachers around here of how people have to work for taxes, not themselves. How much lower do you think your tax burden will be at $40k vs. $80k? You would likely fall from the 28% to the 15% bracket. With the right deductions I doubt you would even owe taxes on that $40k.
We all basically live in comfort zones and make adjustments to those zones when we have to do so. People might have to rent instead of own. They might have to live in an apartment or condo instead of a home with a lot. They might have to own a used car instead of new. They might use the library instead of Amazon, etc.
You have 3(one of them an infant) people living in a 4 bedroom house and you call that a "need."
I'm not telling you to sell your house or even that you don't deserve it. I'm just saying don't dare call it a need when your family wouldn't have filled a two bedroom apartment a couple months ago.
My first house when we moved away from the beach is a 4 bedroom 3 bath house with a pool and spa. My current house that I live in is 4 bedroom 2.5 bath with a large lot. I'm not claiming it only meets a need though. There is about a thousand sq ft of "want" in the house, and about 4000 sq ft in the lot. We can and have gotten by with less before and could again if we needed to do so. My condo in Long Beach was 2 bedroom, 2 bath, 800 sq ft and could still have met the needs of my family today.
So we have more, but I honestly declare the more a want and not a need. I didn't "need" to move from Long Beach, I wanted a bigger house, etc.
Nick
You seem like a decent guy, but I'm really tired of your self-righteous BS sometimes.
I live in this area because that's where my job is. Since you have a music ed. degree, I would think you'd know that decent jobs aren't a dime a dozen. Perhaps we should pick up and move? Hmmm...I'll think about that.
As far as me feeling like I have a "right to live here", I'm not even sure what that means. Our jobs were in this area. That's why we live here. Again, should I frantically search out a lower cost of living area, even if it is perhaps 1,500 miles away, leave family and friends, and start from scratch, just to be as frugal as you are? BTW, my wife is very happy with her job and wouldn't want to leave. Am I to ignore her wishes?
Home Needs: Here we go again: Mr. Frugal to the rescue. We are planning on having at least two children. That's a three bedroom home.
Any three bedroom home in the area our jobs are (and in a decent neighborhood/school district) that had any living and storage space whatsoever started at $180K plus. The more acceptable ones (and I'm sure you'll pick that apart...but whatever) were $200K plus. That's the facts, as they say. I paid less for my four bedroom home than I would have for a much smaller one. There are no houses with more than two bedrooms in a decent area for less than $180K (we looked at a pre-fab home for $175K. I shit you not).
Go ahead. Look around for housing in my area. We feel lucky and blessed to have what we have, but housing prices in particular are major factor in cost of living...and the prices are crazy around here. In fact, I couldn't afford to buy this house if we tried to just one year after we did.
You may be right about comfort, but there is nothing wrong with that. Pardon me if I dont want to live in a Cape Cod house with no living space and drive a 1976 Chevy Impala with no tires. My family deserves a reasonable standard of living and that's expensive. Period.
You run around here like some kind Frugal Living TV Show Host. Knock it off. I know how to manage my money and I'm in better financial shape than probably 90% of middle income people out there. While you're driving your POS $3,200 car and living in a refurbished lawn mower box, I have a new home and two cars (one owned outright) and a plan for savings, retirement, college education, etc.
Sorry for the flame. I'm just tired of your approach.
Comments
Originally posted by ShawnJ
EXPLAIN HOW GIAGUARA'S COMMENTS WERE RACIST.
Immigrants, including Mexican-Americans, will take over jobs abdicated en masse by other workers. It's inevitable. Why do you think they frequently work the most dangerous, physically demanding jobs?
I'm dead set on exposing you for the hypocritical, dishonest, dirty debater you are. You have a big mountain to climb to prove this one.
I already did explain it, learn to read.
Her claim wasn't that a Mexican would take the job but that Mexican COUPLES would take the job. You and she can try to spin it in any manner you like, but the point is that she was just making an assumption, based on race that was absolutely dead wrong.
Here is the definition of prejudice...
An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts.
Here is the definition of racism
Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
She made her judgement with no facts. She assumed they would do it because they were Mexican.
Racism to me, regardless of what you want to repeat, namecall, spin, or whatever. Prejudice does not have to start with bad intent, it starts with ignorance and that is exactly what she displayed.
So expose away. You can't because what I said is true. I CHALLENGE you to find a link that shows that the trend of stay at home mothers hasn't been growing, especially due to Hispanic influence.
And again with the names, I suppose the list has to get longer because god-forbid you have to repeat yourself instead of say, refuting what I claim with things like links, facts, evidence, etc.
Mexicans do take over certain industries and so do other ethnic groups. However if I claimed that say Jewish immigrants would go work in vegetable fields you would likely laugh out loud at that claim. However Jewish immigrants have a history of going into skilled trades.
A lot of Koreans/Indians own convenience stores. A lot of Chinese immigrants open restaurants. I don't consider those the most physically demanding jobs do you?
As usual your claims are 100% bullshit. There are some Mexican immigrants that do physical labor. This is true of all groups. The fact that certain groups get into a vocational niche, consider it a strong area and then have a whole lot of their peers follow is like saying the Earth goes around the sun. It is true of all groups, not just Mexicans nor just immigrants. Gee women go into teaching and nursing disportionately. Seems like a whole lot of white men went into computers and are now pissed their jobs are going to SKILLED workers in India.
See Shawn you bias is that you assume all immigrants poorly educated, unskilled, and likely only capable of manual labor.
However immigrants are capable of taking over all sorts of fields in mass, not just unskilled ones. There are so many Filipino nurses your head would spin, but I suppose they have to be digging a hole or working in a field to be an "immigrant" to you.
Here are some of these.... I like to call them links..perhaps you can start using them too.
Hispanic Cultural Influence-More Moms staying home
More kids have a stay at home mom
She said COUPLES claiming that if other moms decided to stay home with their children, the Mexican (her words) moms would dump the kids and go to work in their place.
However they have a different set of priorities than us.
Of course if "I" assumed my set of priorities were better than "Mexican" priorities or even that the should adopt mine because mine are better, it would be seen as racism.
That's exactly what it is in her case. Spin, spin, spin away and of course call names too because that is all you can do.
Every year they measure the gains in productivity. Eventually there is just less work to do. Farms don't as much labor today as they did 100 years ago. I can't think of any industry that does require more labor now than it did in the past once growth has been factored in.
That is why France passed the 35 hour work week. Eventually there will just be fewer jobs. It was passed by Socialists, it is considered... PROGRESSIVE to work fewer hours and still get the same amount of pay.
Even if a different ethnic group would take the job, all it means is that they are willing to be EXPLOITED and why the hell would you accept or encourage that?
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
SDW, there are plenty of folks who live on half of what your family makes
[..] My wife and I had to move from the beach in order to avoid bad neighborhoods every couple miles and housing prices that would have us running to stand still.
[...] People might have to rent instead of own. They might have to live in an apartment or condo instead of a home with a lot. They might have to own a used car instead of new. They might use the library instead of Amazon, etc.
[...] My first house when we moved away from the beach is a 4 bedroom 3 bath house with a pool and spa. [...]
There sure are plenty of people who make less than half or just a really small part of what your family makes as money.
Most of the small income people / families can not move from a bad neighborhood to a good one. When you don't have MONEY you can't decide that Skokie is nicer than South of Pilsen. Or that Notarbartolo is more cool than the worst parts of the old city.
Many people rent because they can not think about owning their own. If your income is 300 $, your spouse's 500 $ and rent takes 300, food 300, tell me how you can buy a house? Those numbers are possible, medium incomes of a 25-35 y old couple in Southern Italy. Both with degree, and 1-5 y work experience, on a field their degree suggests. If you are female, you won't get over 300. If you want to live alone, you can barely have a shared bedroom with someone else, water in the best case even every day, and be able even to eat with what you earn. If you have no phone, and buy no clothes, and live with only your salary, not eating the average of 2,000 + cals a day, you may with 6 - 12 months savings get yourself a used mac. If your parents are nobody, you are nobody and not involved in any illegal method of earning money, or in anything organized by criminal organizations, you will not get more. There are places (countryside) where you get less. And in many parts of Mexico, eastern Europe, Africa, any poorer zone or poorer country it is the same.
If you can not have a place of your own, even rented, while you try to live legally, before you are 35 or 40 there is somehting wrong. People go, they go to places where they can LIVE and not SURVIVE. You go to UK to was dishes or working in a warehouse, brcause you get more money, easier and you can LIVE. And live even if you have only the minimum legal income.
When you know what you had, and what are your real possibilities living where you chose not to live anymore, you get what you can and adapt to the possibilities.
When your graduated income is not enough to make you have a studio apartment rent AND pay for food, or phone, or computers, or to buy clothes or to go anywhere, you just DON'T talk about buying a 4 or 5 bedroom house anywhere. You don't talk, you have no voice, you just go or disappear. And when you start your life somewhere else, you are just happy that there is someone who does not need the work you want as much as you do.
Originally posted by trumptman
She said COUPLES claiming that if other moms decided to stay home with their children, the Mexican (her words) moms would dump the kids and go to work in their place.
She did NOT say that Mexican women would dump their kids and go work. This is your own bias distorting what you read.
Originally posted by bunge
She did NOT say that Mexican women would dump their kids and go work. This is your own bias distorting what you read.
Care to explain how Mexican women would be able to go to work when every other group has had to begin disportionately using day care?
My "bias" is reality for every other ethnic group. You can explain how it would be different for what she claimed.
Good luck,
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
Care to explain how Mexican women would be able to go to work when every other group has had to begin disportionately using day care?
My "bias" is reality for every other ethnic group. You can explain how it would be different for what she claimed.
Good luck,
Nick
She doesn't mention Mexican women.
The Men could stay home. More couples could come from over the borders allowing new couples to find work for one spouse while the other stays home.
Wow, that was easy. Thanks for the luck but I don't think I needed it.
Originally posted by trumptman
bullshit...snip...bullshit...snip
Nick
SHE DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT MEXICAN WOMEN.
Her claim was that if a large number of workers quit, you can be sure that a large number of immigrants will fill those jobs.
That's not racist.
Originally posted by trumptman
A lot of Koreans/Indians own convenience stores. A lot of Chinese immigrants open restaurants. I don't consider those the most physically demanding jobs do you?
[...] As usual your claims are 100% bullshit. There are some Mexican immigrants that do physical labor. This is true of all groups. The fact that certain groups get into a vocational niche, consider it a strong area and then have a whole lot of their peers follow is like saying the Earth goes around the sun. It is true of all groups, not just Mexicans nor just immigrants. Gee women go into teaching and nursing disportionately. Seems like a whole lot of white men went into computers and are now pissed their jobs are going to SKILLED workers in India.
See Shawn you bias is that you assume all immigrants poorly educated, unskilled, and likely only capable of manual labor.
However immigrants are capable of taking over all sorts of fields in mass, not just unskilled ones.
[...]
However they have a different set of priorities than us.
[..] That is why France passed the 35 hour work week.
Don't estimate what is hard work and what is not. You haven't ever worked in a restaurant, have you? You haven't worked in a convenience store 70 hours a week, have you?
There are a lot of educated emigrants. True. Even most of the Africans I've known in Northern Europe are educated. Doctors, engineers, at least nurses, advocates .. do they get a job they could because of their degree? My cousin worked part time in a cleaning company in Northern Europe. She was doing part time university, and is 20 something. She is the boss of her team, but she is the less educated there. The other workers are emigrants. Doctors, lawyers, engineers .. cleaning. Because the people don't like their skin or hair color. Still, even cleaning you make more than you could have made home in [...] whereever. You can be with an Oxford or Yale degree, but if the local people are racists enough, or you don't speak their language, the best you can get is cleaning, warehouses etc.
Hispanics can have different PRIORITIES than the WASP but they may have more NEED to have two incomes that often together are not nearly as big as your one. The NEED tends to go over PRIORITY.
I don't personally care what France or UK working hours per week are. If I go to UK to work, I work for a short period of time as much as I can. That is simply more money. If the hours allowed are 35 / week, I sure make more extra doing 70.
Nick, I wish you would live one year of your life in a poor country.
Originally posted by trumptman
Care to explain how Mexican women would be able to go to work when every other group has had to begin disportionately using day care?
My "bias" is reality for every other ethnic group. You can explain how it would be different for what she claimed.
The NEED goes over the PRIORITY. I may _prefer_ to do do something, but if I have no choise, I have to do what I NEED to do.
If I had kids and PREFERRED to stay home with them, if there was not enough money I still would NEED to work.
Kids are no necessity. When you don't have money to raise them, Nick, you don't have them. And when you calculate how much the kids cost you, you should not have them either.
A hispanic and Latin family is often composed of parents, kids, grandparents, uncles etc etc. If both parents are in work, the grandparents can do something useful and watch the kids. That was the traditional way. Blacks tend to have parents and kids only families, like most whites. Thus they ned day care, and care for their elderly too.
Originally posted by Giaguara
Don't estimate what is hard work and what is not. You haven't ever worked in a restaurant, have you? You haven't worked in a convenience store 70 hours a week, have you?
There are a lot of educated emigrants. True. Even most of the Africans I've known in Northern Europe are educated. Doctors, engineers, at least nurses, advocates .. do they get a job they could because of their degree? My cousin worked part time in a cleaning company in Northern Europe. She was doing part time university, and is 20 something. She is the boss of her team, but she is the less educated there. The other workers are emigrants. Doctors, lawyers, engineers .. cleaning. Because the people don't like their skin or hair color. Still, even cleaning you make more than you could have made home in [...] whereever. You can be with an Oxford or Yale degree, but if the local people are racists enough, or you don't speak their language, the best you can get is cleaning, warehouses etc.
Hispanics can have different PRIORITIES than the WASP but they may have more NEED to have two incomes that often together are not nearly as big as your one. The NEED tends to go over PRIORITY.
I don't personally care what France or UK working hours per week are. If I go to UK to work, I work for a short period of time as much as I can. That is simply more money. If the hours allowed are 35 / week, I sure make more extra doing 70.
Nick, I wish you would live one year of your life in a poor country.
Gia, I wish you would stop making assumptions about people based off their race.
I assure you I have worked 70 hour weeks. I have even worked full time while attending university full time. I've worked services sector jobs like restaurants. I've worked as direct care staff for disabled adults. (Want to clean up 5 lbs of poop and lift 180 lbs boys/men?) I've been a dishwasher, bused tables, stocked store shelves, busted out ceramic tile and installed cabinets in the winter homes of the rich in Palm Springs (During the summer), cleaned up dirt and grease at auto/truck garages, etc.
I've done whatever it takes to get by just like anyone else.
I've also worked with people who have not had their degrees recognized in the United States. When I was a gas station cashier (bad part of town, and hey I do believe those have "convenience stores" in them which I did stock as well) the mechanic was from Iran and had an engineering degree. His degree was not recognized here and so he was working as a mechanic.
The issue could be racism in some places, but I don't believe that the case here. It is language and having the degree evaluated. If I were to leave California and attempt to teach in another state, my degree and my credential would be evaluated to see if I could teach there. If it were found lacking, I wouldn't be allowed and I am a white male. Likewise when I was dating a Filipino woman she was a nurse and was working privately for a family while attempting to pass the test verifying her degree from the Philipines.
Are you honestly telling me that if I went to Italy, for example that they would recognize my degree with no processing, and I could get a job earning what I earn here, even while speaking no Italian?
Would that be racism if they didn't even while I happen to be majority Italian in my ancestry?
The Hispanics may have more a necessity for two incomes, but the point is they disproportionately find a way to stay home because of their priorities. In otherwords they find a way to meet their needs and still stay home. Meanwhile you have WASP's declaring they NEED two incomes even when they have incomes that are above the national average with one income. The point is that they have declared their WANTS to be NEEDS. They NEED that 4 bedroom, $200k+ home. They NEED two new cars in the driveway. They NEED a vacation on a cruise ship or abroad.
They don't NEED these things. Likewise the sacrifices to get them can show priorities that are out of whack when we see that out of all the adults and people their children interact with, their own parents are often last on the list.
Tell me what conditions you have lived in that you consider poverty Gia. When I was in college, I rented out a poorly enclosed porch as a room from a woman so I could afford to go to school. It didn't even have a heat source, or kitchen. I did have access to the bathroom though. Of course at least that one was rented alone. We can also go into accomodations I "shared" or when I was homeless for about 2 months and lived in my Subaru Brat with camper shell.
I think you assume entirely to much about a person based off their skin color.
Nick
Originally posted by bunge
She doesn't mention Mexican women.
The Men could stay home. More couples could come from over the borders allowing new couples to find work for one spouse while the other stays home.
Wow, that was easy. Thanks for the luck but I don't think I needed it.
Originally posted by ShawnJ
SHE DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT MEXICAN WOMEN.
Her claim was that if a large number of workers quit, you can be sure that a large number of immigrants will fill those jobs.
That's not racist.
You can both try your lawyer-ese as much as you want. It is just more spin and of course no links, no support, no nothing.
The men already work in these "couples." Gia claimed and has repeatedly claimed that attempts to keep someone home is attempting to keep women home.
Just another thread to justify why women are bad (stealing your work) and should be home just for you (cooking, cleaning etc).
In the context of the thread it is obviously which member of the "couple" to whom she thinks this relates.
Try again.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
Gia, I wish you would stop making assumptions about people based off their race.
...
I think you assume entirely to much about a person based off their skin color.
And you haven't supported this claim in the least. You're attacking someone when their point is valid, but you're attacking them personally (albeit backhandedly) without supporting your point.
She hasn't mentioned skin color at all, you are.
Originally posted by trumptman
Are you honestly telling me that if I went to Italy, for example that they would recognize my degree with no processing, and I could get a job earning what I earn here, even while speaking no Italian?
Would that be racism if they didn't even while I happen to be majority Italian in my ancestry?
The Hispanics may have more a necessity for two incomes, but the point is they disproportionately find a way to stay home because of their priorities. In otherwords they find a way to meet their needs and still stay home. Meanwhile you have WASP's declaring they NEED two incomes even when they have incomes that are above the national average with one income. The point is that they have declared their WANTS to be NEEDS. They NEED that 4 bedroom, $200k+ home. They NEED two new cars in the driveway. They NEED a vacation on a cruise ship or abroad.
They don't NEED these things. Likewise the sacrifices to get them can show priorities that are out of whack when we see that out of all the adults and people their children interact with, their own parents are often last on the list.
Tell me what conditions you have lived in that you consider poverty Gia. When I was in college, I rented out a poorly enclosed porch as a room from a woman so I could afford to go to school. It didn't even have a heat source, or kitchen. I did have access to the bathroom though. Of course at least that one was rented alone. We can also go into accomodations I "shared" or when I was homeless for about 2 months and lived in my Subaru Brat with camper shell.
I think you assume entirely to much about a person based off their skin color.
Happy to see you have lived and actually worked on also other than your teacher job, nick.
You would absolutely not get a job in Italy with your degree, earning what you earn here. Even if your degree was Italian, you were Italian and you knew the right persons. If you are a university director of department, your income (male) is about 2,500 $ / mo. Minus taxes.
It is far more viable one with a degree from any Italian university chooses to go anywhere elsewhere to live (vs. survive).
But you are not Italian, you don't speak Italian .. wait for a few years for processing your degree, do more exams, pay for 30 different offices for doing more paper to process you, apply for 60 different licences and licences to stay and to work. And you may end up either teaching English or working for any American company. Anyone having an accent is looked down .. in most cases. In most places. Wait, you would not pass those tests as you don't speak Italian.
What I ment with the previous post example of not mastering the language correctly was to useless languages such as Finnish or Norwegian. If they don't want you and even when 95 % of the population speaks good english, you can always be refused as your that language is not perfect. You could spend there the next 20 years of my life and still be not perfect.
Yes, wants are declared as needs. Too often. And refusing many "needs" one looks ascetic. I don't need 3 cars, 4 rooms, dishwashers, electrical tin openers, matching luggage ..
I don't consider myself having lived really in poverty. I worked one summer in Slovakia, and my salary was 125 $ a month. That was an average pay in 1997 there. I shared one room with a Finnish married guy (I have forgotten his name), an Italian and Croatian guy, a Greek girl and so on. 4 bunk beds, 2 long divided desks from the 70s, single windows, mini bathroom with at least hot water, one mini kitchen and fridge for 22 rooms (90 students) .. no fridge, no kitchen in practise. Yet it was not that bad.
I shared my 10 sq meter room in UK with a friend for a few months. We both were withoug grants. I've lived in several places with 5-6 other people in 4-5 bedroom apartment. I don't want to go to talk about poverty. Oh, water home in Palermo every 2 days 6 am to midday. Sometimes it went away earlier. And last few years it's been ever 2 - 3 days. And in some cities water a few hours every 6 days. Having 4 showers a day feels so form an other planet when you can as opposed to that have one every few days. Yet you don't NEED water every day, just PREFER it..
Originally posted by bunge
She hasn't mentioned skin color at all, you are.
According to him (trumptman) I don't like WASPs.
(Or was it just pseudo-intellectual conservatives I didn't like?)
Originally posted by bunge
And you haven't supported this claim in the least. You're attacking someone when their point is valid, but you're attacking them personally (albeit backhandedly) without supporting your point.
She hasn't mentioned skin color at all, you are.
She has made reference to me and my supposed in ability to have experience poverty due to my racial background.
She claimed racism keeps down people with degrees from other countries and who don't speak the language of that country, even while admitting that I would encounter the same issues in Italy and I happen to be over half Italian and a "white male."
She has made numerous declarations about WASP's and Mexicans.
Try again,
Nick
Originally posted by Giaguara
Happy to see you have lived and actually worked on also other than your teacher job, nick.
Oh how could I have worked Gia? According to you that isn't possible. I just must have had things handed to me for being a white male right?
You would absolutely not get a job in Italy with your degree, earning what you earn here. Even if your degree was Italian, you were Italian and you knew the right persons. If you are a university director of department, your income (male) is about 2,500 $ / mo. Minus taxes.
It is far more viable one with a degree from any Italian university chooses to go anywhere elsewhere to live (vs. survive).
But you are not Italian, you don't speak Italian .. wait for a few years for processing your degree, do more exams, pay for 30 different offices for doing more paper to process you, apply for 60 different licences and licences to stay and to work. And you may end up either teaching English or working for any American company. Anyone having an accent is looked down .. in most cases. In most places. Wait, you would not pass those tests as you don't speak Italian.
What I ment with the previous post example of not mastering the language correctly was to useless languages such as Finnish or Norwegian. If they don't want you and even when 95 % of the population speaks good english, you can always be refused as your that language is not perfect. You could spend there the next 20 years of my life and still be not perfect.
(more sarcasm)
Oh but I thought the lower earnings, lack of degree recognition, and not being able to earn with their degree were all RACISM. How could that possibly happen to me when I am a white male?
You prove my point which is that all countries have these procedures and subject everyone to them equally. It happened to affect people who immigrant from one country to another, say the United States, because the immigration is only one way. There are not millions clamoring to immigrate to Mexico (retire, yes, immigrant no) from the United States or say from the United States to India. (Exactly what caste would I be in anyway?) So the procedures tend to disproportionately affect certain groups. However you said yourself that if I went through the process to move to another country, the same issues would arise. That means it is independent from racism.
I don't consider myself having lived really in poverty. I worked one summer in Slovakia, and my salary was 125 $ a month. That was an average pay in 1997 there. I shared one room with a Finnish married guy (I have forgotten his name), an Italian and Croatian guy, a Greek girl and so on. 4 bunk beds, 2 long divided desks from the 70s, single windows, mini bathroom with at least hot water, one mini kitchen and fridge for 22 rooms (90 students) .. no fridge, no kitchen in practise. Yet it was not that bad.
I shared my 10 sq meter room in UK with a friend for a few months. We both were withoug grants. I've lived in several places with 5-6 other people in 4-5 bedroom apartment. I don't want to go to talk about poverty. Oh, water home in Palermo every 2 days 6 am to midday. Sometimes it went away earlier. And last few years it's been ever 2 - 3 days. And in some cities water a few hours every 6 days. Having 4 showers a day feels so form an other planet when you can as opposed to that have one every few days. Yet you don't NEED water every day, just PREFER it..
So basically you are telling me to go experience poverty to understand it, not knowing I have already experienced it to the point of being homeless, while you yourself can make judgements and understand it while not having truly experienced these issues.
Yep, it just keeps getting thicker in here from you guys.. (the bullshit)
Nick
Originally posted by BJer
There are certainly other issues to consider in addition to income. A full time job often enhances the person's (either man or woman) self esteem, confidence and other psychological elements that contributes to a better family life. Additionally, a person who is pushed into a working environment is more adept at handling different circumstances than someone who is at home all the time. Taking time out to take care of the new arrival- child, is good and would be valuable but out of the working environment for too long dulls the social and societal senses and may end up creating gaps between the mates.
That's so full of bullshit.
Originally posted by JRC
That's so full of bullshit.
It is? I agree fully with what the BeiJinger stated. Can you be more specific?
Originally posted by trumptman
She has made numerous declarations about WASP's and Mexicans.
Yeah, she claimed that if all white couples decided to become one income families immigrants would pick up the slack.
Originally posted by trumptman
Oh how could I have worked Gia? According to you that isn't possible. I just must have had things handed to me for being a white male right?
[...]
Oh but I thought the lower earnings, lack of degree recognition, and not being able to earn with their degree were all RACISM. How could that possibly happen to me when I am a white male?
[...]
So basically you are telling me to go experience poverty to understand it, not knowing I have already experienced it to the point of being homeless, while you yourself can make judgements and understand it while not having truly experienced these issues.
You just sound like you have only had your degree, and worked only in white collar works.
Racism can happen to anyone. In one of my jobs in UK there was one boss who was racist. A black British who did not like the whites.
Yes. Live the poverty and understand it. When the hot water is the only luxury you have, after turning back to "normality" I assume you don't "NEED" the 4+X room houses, 3 trucks, etc etc etc. The fact I did not start to list any of the poverty issues I have had does not mean I have not lived them. I am skinny but sometimes it was also because I had 4 £ to spend for food in a week (before getting one more job). That's about 2 coffees if I drink out, or one coffee and 4 cans of beans from Sainsbury's.
A month in Africa changes most people. In better.
Originally posted by trumptman
SDW, there are plenty of folks who live on half of what your family makes. As usual your presumptions lead to your own conclusions. You speak of an "area" as if you had a right to live there or that living outside that area would = death or something of that nature. That just isn't true. I have no doubt that the "needs" expressed in your homebuying go well above a true "need" and into the "want" category.
My wife and I had to move from the beach in order to avoid bad neighborhoods every couple miles and housing prices that would have us running to stand still. As a teacher you have much more flexibility than most because there happen to be schools and kids just about everywhere.
What is even funnier is you are one of the chief preachers around here of how people have to work for taxes, not themselves. How much lower do you think your tax burden will be at $40k vs. $80k? You would likely fall from the 28% to the 15% bracket. With the right deductions I doubt you would even owe taxes on that $40k.
We all basically live in comfort zones and make adjustments to those zones when we have to do so. People might have to rent instead of own. They might have to live in an apartment or condo instead of a home with a lot. They might have to own a used car instead of new. They might use the library instead of Amazon, etc.
You have 3(one of them an infant) people living in a 4 bedroom house and you call that a "need."
I'm not telling you to sell your house or even that you don't deserve it. I'm just saying don't dare call it a need when your family wouldn't have filled a two bedroom apartment a couple months ago.
My first house when we moved away from the beach is a 4 bedroom 3 bath house with a pool and spa. My current house that I live in is 4 bedroom 2.5 bath with a large lot. I'm not claiming it only meets a need though. There is about a thousand sq ft of "want" in the house, and about 4000 sq ft in the lot. We can and have gotten by with less before and could again if we needed to do so. My condo in Long Beach was 2 bedroom, 2 bath, 800 sq ft and could still have met the needs of my family today.
So we have more, but I honestly declare the more a want and not a need. I didn't "need" to move from Long Beach, I wanted a bigger house, etc.
Nick
You seem like a decent guy, but I'm really tired of your self-righteous BS sometimes.
I live in this area because that's where my job is. Since you have a music ed. degree, I would think you'd know that decent jobs aren't a dime a dozen. Perhaps we should pick up and move? Hmmm...I'll think about that.
As far as me feeling like I have a "right to live here", I'm not even sure what that means. Our jobs were in this area. That's why we live here. Again, should I frantically search out a lower cost of living area, even if it is perhaps 1,500 miles away, leave family and friends, and start from scratch, just to be as frugal as you are? BTW, my wife is very happy with her job and wouldn't want to leave. Am I to ignore her wishes?
Home Needs: Here we go again: Mr. Frugal to the rescue. We are planning on having at least two children. That's a three bedroom home.
Any three bedroom home in the area our jobs are (and in a decent neighborhood/school district) that had any living and storage space whatsoever started at $180K plus. The more acceptable ones (and I'm sure you'll pick that apart...but whatever) were $200K plus. That's the facts, as they say. I paid less for my four bedroom home than I would have for a much smaller one. There are no houses with more than two bedrooms in a decent area for less than $180K (we looked at a pre-fab home for $175K. I shit you not).
Go ahead. Look around for housing in my area. We feel lucky and blessed to have what we have, but housing prices in particular are major factor in cost of living...and the prices are crazy around here. In fact, I couldn't afford to buy this house if we tried to just one year after we did.
You may be right about comfort, but there is nothing wrong with that. Pardon me if I dont want to live in a Cape Cod house with no living space and drive a 1976 Chevy Impala with no tires. My family deserves a reasonable standard of living and that's expensive. Period.
You run around here like some kind Frugal Living TV Show Host. Knock it off. I know how to manage my money and I'm in better financial shape than probably 90% of middle income people out there. While you're driving your POS $3,200 car and living in a refurbished lawn mower box, I have a new home and two cars (one owned outright) and a plan for savings, retirement, college education, etc.
Sorry for the flame. I'm just tired of your approach.