She makes no claims about Mexican couples. Her claim was simply that if you stay home, immigrants will replace you at work.
3. If half of all couples quit working, the double of Mexican couples work.
Sounds like a pretty clear claim to me.
Quote:
Originally posted by ShawnJ
Her language?
You took something that was neutral and unclear at worst and construed to it grand charges of racism! You just threw the racism charge in with "ignorant and wrong" to help prove your point.
TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for the fact that you were wrong in jumping the gun in calling Giagura racist.
Yes Shawn and if I said that if I won't cut my lawn, the Mexicans will, that wouldn't be racist either right?
It is not neutral. It makes very specific claims about very specific people. If it were a broad generalization, it might still be wrong, but not necessarily offensive. However it was specifica and offensive.
3. If half of all couples quit working, the double of Mexican couples work.
Sounds like a pretty clear claim to me.
Yes Shawn and if I said that if I won't cut my lawn, the Mexicans will, that wouldn't be racist either right?
It is not neutral. It makes very specific claims about very specific people. If it were a broad generalization, it might still be wrong, but not necessarily offensive. However it was specifica and offensive.
Nick
It's very clear to most of us here that her point was:
Immigrants, especially Mexicans, will take the jobs abdicated en masse by other workers.
THAT'S NOT RACIST.
You've already insulted at least four of us here. Now take responsibility, liar.
I have to ask you Gia, how would you have felt if while spending your 4 £ per week on food, and getting ever skinnier because of it you watched others spend their 4 £ on alchohol and cigarettes while spending another 40 £ on food including steaks, and other luxury items? When it came time to pay for these items they took out notes for a government food program and walked off with food you could only dream about. You notice the people are not dependent or destitute. In fact quite the opposite. They look very relaxed and very muscular.
Because if you had experienced this perhaps you could relate a bit better to me since it is what I experienced during college repeatedly. I didn't really worry about coffee or cigarettes since I don't drink it or smoke at all, but the point is the same. The food stipends actually allowed them to buy more negative things. It was not given because they were destitute or incapable but rather just because they applied for it and took it.
These folks were not impoverished. No one has ever claimed that someone who is destitute shouldn't be helped.
Nick
Either you're a liar or you percieved what you wanted to see.
while you were "in College" - meaning that you didn't really need help and you were 'slumming it' looking around at the 'lazy wellfare laofers' and for the biases that you were going to see no matter what . . . same old lame old
either you're a liar or you are high on some invisible high-horse talking divine-benevolence while really doing your slum-lording . . . 'waste-manegment' haahaa.... who are you trying to fool? making that sound like some goddamn saintly activity...where, rather than bilking tenants for money, you are actually providing a charitably service out of the natural values that poor forth from your gracious heart . . . .
you sure think you are god's gift to the working world hunh
Either you're a liar or you percieved what you wanted to see.
while you were "in College" - meaning that you didn't really need help and you were 'slumming it' looking around at the 'lazy wellfare laofers' and for the biases that you were going to see no matter what . . . same old lame old
either you're a liar or you are high on some invisible high-horse talking divine-benevolence while really doing your slum-lording . . . 'waste-manegment' haahaa.... who are you trying to fool? making that sound like some goddamn saintly activity...where, rather than bilking tenants for money, you are actually providing a charitably service out of the natural values that poor forth from your gracious heart . . . .
you sure think you are god's gift to the working world hunh
pfflam where did this come from? I thought you were a more thoughtful and respectable person than to take this kind of cheap shot at somebody. I too am involved in the real estate business and I can say that not all people are slum-lords (waste-management) as you put it. As not all Catholics sexually abuse boys etc. You need to consider what you said and perhapse retract what you said.
pfflam where did this come from? I thought you were a more thoughtful and respectable person than to take this kind of cheap shot at somebody. I too am involved in the real estate business and I can say that not all people are slum-lords (waste-management) as you put it. As not all Catholics sexually abuse boys etc. You need to consider what you said and perhapse retract what you said.
Fellowship
---hmmm...er.... sorry trumpt . . . you are doing good things for your fellow man . . . even if they are shiftless wellfare loafers . . .
Perhaps her language wasn't racist to you because you live in Pennsylvania where diversity is defined as having chocolate milk in the same cabinet as the whole and low fat.
3. If half of all couples quit working, the double of Mexican couples work.
...It makes very specific claims about very specific people. If it were a broad generalization, it might still be wrong, but not necessarily offensive. However it was specifica and offensive.
Someone might want to tell black mexicans trumptman has decided a new racial identify for them.
Trumptman, your pretend defence is the only thing that is offensive. It was clear what she meant and you are only contorting it so you can pick fights with strangers on the internet, something you seem to need to do 24 hours a day, literally (look at some of his post times).
Maybe your wife is on a research assignment and you are lonely, but I'm sure I am not alone in having a hard time taking advice on marriage from someone who apparently has no kids or wife (or doesn't spend time with them if he does) and harps on and on about divorce. And if you are divorced: TFB. And that doesn't do much for the image you want to portray as marriage and marriage financial expert.
You've evem managed to do the impossible: I agree with SDW for the most part and will refer you to his post. I'll need to take a shower after this but here goes:
So take your high minded ideas and save them for speeches. Perhaps her language wasn't racist to you because you live in Pennsylvania where diversity is defined as having chocolate milk in the same cabinet as the whole and low fat.
...
However it was racist to me and I have lived with, socialized with, worked with and for, rented to and from Mexican couples for my whole life.
What do you think this is, a freaking contest of who is or isn't 'down with the mexicans?' You're like a cartoon.
I grew up in multi-cultural urban america, so what's up now? I'm an book worm you would run from, mr. so cal.
Either you're a liar or you percieved what you wanted to see.
while you were "in College" - meaning that you didn't really need help and you were 'slumming it' looking around at the 'lazy wellfare laofers' and for the biases that you were going to see no matter what . . . same old lame old
Oh yes, Ol Rosa must have just been "seeing what she wanted to see" on the bus.
Really, you need help.
I was "slumming" it while living on between $10-15 a week of food. I didn't really need help. I mean sure the financial aid office declared I did but left me with an average of $9000 of unmet(above loans) need per year but hey what is that between friends.
Yes I was slumming it while working full time to pay my own way through college.
Of course maybe the reason I saw these things is because I LIVED in those neighborhoods. OH horrors that could never be true!8) I mean I couldn't possibly have known what was going on the worst neighborhoods because I live in them because, well that would be true.
Your claim is basically white = can't be poor. How else could I be lying about my own background? I witnessed those events week after week because I lived in those neighborhoods for almost a decade.
Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Poland, Russia, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Sudan, Kenya, Madagascar, South Africa, Cuba, Brazil, China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Australia, Canada.
And America.
Your turn Nick.
The children at our school have been identified as coming from more than 32 different countries. I don't have a list of them all nor do I care to because it isn't of importance to me in my daily teaching.
either you're a liar or you are high on some invisible high-horse talking divine-benevolence while really doing your slum-lording . . . 'waste-manegment' haahaa.... who are you trying to fool? making that sound like some goddamn saintly activity...where, rather than bilking tenants for money, you are actually providing a charitably service out of the natural values that poor forth from your gracious heart . . . .
you sure think you are god's gift to the working world hunh
---hmmm...er.... sorry trumpt . . . you are doing good things for your fellow man . . . even if they are shiftless wellfare loafers . . .
Well I call it waste management when I have to remove 10 tons of garbage from a quarter-acre sight to make it no longer a slum. You can call it whatever you want. I know for example that if you have an excessive number of tires (I had to dispose of 22) that due to environmental concerns, it becomes a waste management issue. You would actually be arrested as gross polluter if you drove down the road with them.
But since you clean up so many slums yourself, surely you must know this.
Well I call it waste management when I have to remove 10 tons of garbage from a quarter-acre sight to make it no longer a slum. You can call it whatever you want. I know for example that if you have an excessive number of tires (I had to dispose of 22) that due to environmental concerns, it becomes a waste management issue. You would actually be arrested as gross polluter if you drove down the road with them.
But since you clean up so many slums yourself, surely you must know this.
Nick
It's all coming together now. Trumptman is just a self-righteous slumlord. Is there any other kind?
I just said that since you don't live among minorities, you would hardly know if they find certain terms or concepts offensive. Your claim at expertise about minority relations while living in a McMansion going to a private college shows the height of white privilege yet you claim to know not only what poorer people go through, but even poor minority people on the west coast who are immigrants.
How do you know Shawn? Because you read it in a book?
See I can find the reports that justify what I SEE daily. You find the ability to repeat liar liar over and over while linking and citing nothing.
It's very clear to most of us here that her point was:
Immigrants, especially Mexicans, will take the jobs abdicated en masse by other workers.
THAT'S NOT RACIST.
You've already insulted at least four of us here. Now take responsibility, liar.
Look the fact that you take her one sentence and have to editorialize it into a bunch of neutral words shows the true intent of her original statement. If you did not believe that so you would just let it stand.
As for insulting, I'm not the one with the one line throw away comments that repeat endlessly. You can repeat yourself until you are blue in the face and it doesn't change the nature of what she claimed.
Likewise you haven't added anything to the discussion by name calling. No links, no research, no nothing.
But by now I should know better than to expect that of you.
Comments
Originally posted by bunge
She makes no claims about Mexican couples. Her claim was simply that if you stay home, immigrants will replace you at work.
3. If half of all couples quit working, the double of Mexican couples work.
Sounds like a pretty clear claim to me.
Originally posted by ShawnJ
Her language?
You took something that was neutral and unclear at worst and construed to it grand charges of racism! You just threw the racism charge in with "ignorant and wrong" to help prove your point.
TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for the fact that you were wrong in jumping the gun in calling Giagura racist.
Yes Shawn and if I said that if I won't cut my lawn, the Mexicans will, that wouldn't be racist either right?
It is not neutral. It makes very specific claims about very specific people. If it were a broad generalization, it might still be wrong, but not necessarily offensive. However it was specifica and offensive.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
Sounds like a pretty clear claim to me.
That's why I said earlier that your bias is getting the best of you.
Originally posted by trumptman
3. If half of all couples quit working, the double of Mexican couples work.
Sounds like a pretty clear claim to me.
Yes Shawn and if I said that if I won't cut my lawn, the Mexicans will, that wouldn't be racist either right?
It is not neutral. It makes very specific claims about very specific people. If it were a broad generalization, it might still be wrong, but not necessarily offensive. However it was specifica and offensive.
Nick
It's very clear to most of us here that her point was:
Immigrants, especially Mexicans, will take the jobs abdicated en masse by other workers.
THAT'S NOT RACIST.
You've already insulted at least four of us here. Now take responsibility, liar.
Originally posted by trumptman
I have to ask you Gia, how would you have felt if while spending your 4 £ per week on food, and getting ever skinnier because of it you watched others spend their 4 £ on alchohol and cigarettes while spending another 40 £ on food including steaks, and other luxury items? When it came time to pay for these items they took out notes for a government food program and walked off with food you could only dream about. You notice the people are not dependent or destitute. In fact quite the opposite. They look very relaxed and very muscular.
Because if you had experienced this perhaps you could relate a bit better to me since it is what I experienced during college repeatedly. I didn't really worry about coffee or cigarettes since I don't drink it or smoke at all, but the point is the same. The food stipends actually allowed them to buy more negative things. It was not given because they were destitute or incapable but rather just because they applied for it and took it.
These folks were not impoverished. No one has ever claimed that someone who is destitute shouldn't be helped.
Nick
Either you're a liar or you percieved what you wanted to see.
while you were "in College" - meaning that you didn't really need help and you were 'slumming it' looking around at the 'lazy wellfare laofers' and for the biases that you were going to see no matter what . . . same old lame old
either you're a liar or you are high on some invisible high-horse talking divine-benevolence while really doing your slum-lording . . . 'waste-manegment' haahaa.... who are you trying to fool? making that sound like some goddamn saintly activity...where, rather than bilking tenants for money, you are actually providing a charitably service out of the natural values that poor forth from your gracious heart . . . .
you sure think you are god's gift to the working world hunh
Originally posted by pfflam
Either you're a liar or you percieved what you wanted to see.
while you were "in College" - meaning that you didn't really need help and you were 'slumming it' looking around at the 'lazy wellfare laofers' and for the biases that you were going to see no matter what . . . same old lame old
either you're a liar or you are high on some invisible high-horse talking divine-benevolence while really doing your slum-lording . . . 'waste-manegment' haahaa.... who are you trying to fool? making that sound like some goddamn saintly activity...where, rather than bilking tenants for money, you are actually providing a charitably service out of the natural values that poor forth from your gracious heart . . . .
you sure think you are god's gift to the working world hunh
pfflam where did this come from? I thought you were a more thoughtful and respectable person than to take this kind of cheap shot at somebody. I too am involved in the real estate business and I can say that not all people are slum-lords (waste-management) as you put it. As not all Catholics sexually abuse boys etc. You need to consider what you said and perhapse retract what you said.
Fellowship
Originally posted by trumptman
I assure you that I teach in a DAY more children from different cultures than anyone here has visited in a lifetime. That is the nature of So Cal.
Woah! You might want to slow down there a bit.
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
pfflam where did this come from? I thought you were a more thoughtful and respectable person than to take this kind of cheap shot at somebody. I too am involved in the real estate business and I can say that not all people are slum-lords (waste-management) as you put it. As not all Catholics sexually abuse boys etc. You need to consider what you said and perhapse retract what you said.
Fellowship
Originally posted by trumptman
Perhaps her language wasn't racist to you because you live in Pennsylvania where diversity is defined as having chocolate milk in the same cabinet as the whole and low fat.
Nick
So I'm inherently racist now?
Originally posted by trumptman
I assure you that I teach in a DAY more children from different cultures than anyone here has visited in a lifetime. That is the nature of So Cal.
Holy crap I missed this one.
I can assure you I've visited more countries than cultures you've taught.
Originally posted by trumptman
3. If half of all couples quit working, the double of Mexican couples work.
...It makes very specific claims about very specific people. If it were a broad generalization, it might still be wrong, but not necessarily offensive. However it was specifica and offensive.
Someone might want to tell black mexicans trumptman has decided a new racial identify for them.
Trumptman, your pretend defence is the only thing that is offensive. It was clear what she meant and you are only contorting it so you can pick fights with strangers on the internet, something you seem to need to do 24 hours a day, literally (look at some of his post times).
Maybe your wife is on a research assignment and you are lonely, but I'm sure I am not alone in having a hard time taking advice on marriage from someone who apparently has no kids or wife (or doesn't spend time with them if he does) and harps on and on about divorce. And if you are divorced: TFB. And that doesn't do much for the image you want to portray as marriage and marriage financial expert.
You've evem managed to do the impossible: I agree with SDW for the most part and will refer you to his post. I'll need to take a shower after this but here goes:
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...638#post446638
Originally posted by trumptman
So take your high minded ideas and save them for speeches. Perhaps her language wasn't racist to you because you live in Pennsylvania where diversity is defined as having chocolate milk in the same cabinet as the whole and low fat.
...
However it was racist to me and I have lived with, socialized with, worked with and for, rented to and from Mexican couples for my whole life.
What do you think this is, a freaking contest of who is or isn't 'down with the mexicans?' You're like a cartoon.
I grew up in multi-cultural urban america, so what's up now? I'm an book worm you would run from, mr. so cal.
Originally posted by trumptman
I assure you that I teach in a DAY more children from different cultures than anyone here has visited in a lifetime. That is the nature of So Cal.
Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Poland, Russia, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Sudan, Kenya, Madagascar, South Africa, Cuba, Brazil, China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Australia, Canada.
And America.
Your turn Nick.
Originally posted by pfflam
Either you're a liar or you percieved what you wanted to see.
while you were "in College" - meaning that you didn't really need help and you were 'slumming it' looking around at the 'lazy wellfare laofers' and for the biases that you were going to see no matter what . . . same old lame old
Oh yes, Ol Rosa must have just been "seeing what she wanted to see" on the bus.
Really, you need help.
I was "slumming" it while living on between $10-15 a week of food. I didn't really need help. I mean sure the financial aid office declared I did but left me with an average of $9000 of unmet(above loans) need per year but hey what is that between friends.
Yes I was slumming it while working full time to pay my own way through college.
Of course maybe the reason I saw these things is because I LIVED in those neighborhoods. OH horrors that could never be true!8) I mean I couldn't possibly have known what was going on the worst neighborhoods because I live in them because, well that would be true.
Your claim is basically white = can't be poor. How else could I be lying about my own background? I witnessed those events week after week because I lived in those neighborhoods for almost a decade.
Nick
Originally posted by giant
Someone might want to tell black mexicans trumptman has decided a new racial identify for them.
Really why don't you quote where you claim I said this instead of just asserting it?
Because your claims are bullshit?
Of course.
Nick
Originally posted by Harald
Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Poland, Russia, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Sudan, Kenya, Madagascar, South Africa, Cuba, Brazil, China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Australia, Canada.
And America.
Your turn Nick.
The children at our school have been identified as coming from more than 32 different countries. I don't have a list of them all nor do I care to because it isn't of importance to me in my daily teaching.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
Really why don't you quote where you claim I said this instead of just asserting it?
Because your claims are bullshit?
Look who's back! It's Ms. Up-Is-Downism herself!
Originally posted by pfflam
either you're a liar or you are high on some invisible high-horse talking divine-benevolence while really doing your slum-lording . . . 'waste-manegment' haahaa.... who are you trying to fool? making that sound like some goddamn saintly activity...where, rather than bilking tenants for money, you are actually providing a charitably service out of the natural values that poor forth from your gracious heart . . . .
you sure think you are god's gift to the working world hunh
Well I call it waste management when I have to remove 10 tons of garbage from a quarter-acre sight to make it no longer a slum. You can call it whatever you want. I know for example that if you have an excessive number of tires (I had to dispose of 22) that due to environmental concerns, it becomes a waste management issue. You would actually be arrested as gross polluter if you drove down the road with them.
But since you clean up so many slums yourself, surely you must know this.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
Well I call it waste management when I have to remove 10 tons of garbage from a quarter-acre sight to make it no longer a slum. You can call it whatever you want. I know for example that if you have an excessive number of tires (I had to dispose of 22) that due to environmental concerns, it becomes a waste management issue. You would actually be arrested as gross polluter if you drove down the road with them.
But since you clean up so many slums yourself, surely you must know this.
Nick
It's all coming together now. Trumptman is just a self-righteous slumlord. Is there any other kind?
Originally posted by ShawnJ
So I'm inherently racist now?
I just said that since you don't live among minorities, you would hardly know if they find certain terms or concepts offensive. Your claim at expertise about minority relations while living in a McMansion going to a private college shows the height of white privilege yet you claim to know not only what poorer people go through, but even poor minority people on the west coast who are immigrants.
How do you know Shawn? Because you read it in a book?
See I can find the reports that justify what I SEE daily. You find the ability to repeat liar liar over and over while linking and citing nothing.
Nick
Originally posted by ShawnJ
It's very clear to most of us here that her point was:
Immigrants, especially Mexicans, will take the jobs abdicated en masse by other workers.
THAT'S NOT RACIST.
You've already insulted at least four of us here. Now take responsibility, liar.
Look the fact that you take her one sentence and have to editorialize it into a bunch of neutral words shows the true intent of her original statement. If you did not believe that so you would just let it stand.
As for insulting, I'm not the one with the one line throw away comments that repeat endlessly. You can repeat yourself until you are blue in the face and it doesn't change the nature of what she claimed.
Likewise you haven't added anything to the discussion by name calling. No links, no research, no nothing.
But by now I should know better than to expect that of you.
Nick