the best argument, as i've noticed, is its costly (aside from the very convincing "common sense" and being "pathetic"). but the numbers rolling on that site you had linked seem unusually erroneous. on the bottom of this page, a paragraph reads:
Quote:
According to the Canadian Government, the annual cost of providing government services in both official languages is three cents per Canadian per day. While many sources discredit the theory that official multilingualism costs only pennies per person daily, even this amount spent on only two languages would dramatically impact the American economy.
assuming the U.S. costs the same as Canada (well, they don't provide any other costs, so its all i can go on), and assuming American cents, $0.03 * 292M != $3B. it comes out to around $9M (chump change on the federal level). $9M would not (i dont think) "dramatically impact the American economy."
the best argument, as i've noticed, is its costly (aside from the very convincing "common sense" and being "pathetic"). but the numbers rolling on that site you had linked seem unusually erroneous. on the bottom of this page, a paragraph reads:
assuming the U.S. costs the same as Canada (well, they don't provide any other costs, so its all i can go on), and assuming American cents, $0.03 * 292M != $3B. it comes out to around $9M (chump change on the federal level). $9M would not (i dont think) "dramatically impact the American economy."
am i missing something?
Well, we could use that money to build Spanish-only public schools.
the best argument, as i've noticed, is its costly (aside from the very convincing "common sense" and being "pathetic"). but the numbers rolling on that site you had linked seem unusually erroneous. on the bottom of this page, a paragraph reads:
assuming the U.S. costs the same as Canada (well, they don't provide any other costs, so its all i can go on), and assuming American cents, $0.03 * 292M != $3B. it comes out to around $9M (chump change on the federal level). $9M would not (i dont think) "dramatically impact the American economy."
am i missing something?
Yes you are missing something. The Federal Govmnt isn't paying for it, local Govmnts are. My County is cash-strapped to the point of laying off people and raising our sales tax to 8.75 %. Those few millions of dollars make a big difference. Not only that but as soon as a certain population reaches some kind of threshold, then that language has to be added. New York City has to print pamphlets in Spanish, Mandarin, Vietnamese, and others. I'm sorry, but I find THAT kind of scary! ............................
New York, however, is quite an exceptional place. It's almost outrageously cosmopolitan (avoid the overused "d" word ) in every way you can think of, and incredible stuff goes on both in the street and under it simply because it has to. It's arguably the most complex city in the world, an exception almost to the point of being its own little (actually, sizable) country. In fact, even if the rest of the US adopted an official language, NYC would have to be an exception to any laws or rules pertaining to it because really there's just too much critical mass to enforce them let alone the ability to operate under them. It's just the way NYC city is, and no one can really control that, not even the mayor (any mayor).
Just because one immigrant group arrives in large numbers shouldn't change the historical use of English in this country.
You're right. English speaking immigrants arriving in large numbers shouldn't change the historical use of English in this country ... which was that it was never the only, nor the official language.
I've been living in the EuroZone for quite a long time and see the importance of having at leaast ONE OFFICIAL language. With the entry of many more member states, translators will have a field day. 20? 30 languages??? NUTS!!!
I totally agree there should be an official language (English, duh) but not the suppression of secondary languages.
Having 'support' for a secondary language (like spanish, or chinese in certain places) just complicates things and makes it less an incentive for people to learn English.
When I used to live in New York City as a kid there were quite a few times where shop keeps from far away places COULD NOT SPEAK ENGLISH nor understand properly. I'm sorry, but that just isnt acceptable. And I aint talkin about spanish Harlem or something... Im talking midtown manhattan.
While we're at it, I think the "insert language"-only schools are a horrible thing to have in the US. It will cause more problems than anything else. dammit, you go to LIVE in a new country, learn the fvcking language and customs at least! Keep your own too, by all means, but dont auto-segregate yourselves!!!
New York, however, is quite an exceptional place. It's almost outrageously cosmopolitan (avoid the overused "d" word ) in every way you can think of, and incredible stuff goes on both in the street and under it simply because it has to. It's arguably the most complex city in the world, an exception almost to the point of being its own little (actually, sizable) country. In fact, even if the rest of the US adopted an official language, NYC would have to be an exception to any laws or rules pertaining to it because really there's just too much critical mass to enforce them let alone the ability to operate under them. It's just the way NYC city is, and no one can really control that, not even the mayor (any mayor).
damn straight New York City is its own country. It has NOTHING to do with the rest of the USA.
Wait a second. I've got an idea to save money: Stop unecessarily invading other countries!
Bitching about costs associated with not having an official language is rediculous when everyone is so excited about spending a quarter of a trillion dollars in the next two years in Iraq.
Wait a second. I've got an idea to save money: Stop unecessarily invading other countries!
Bitching about costs associated with not having an official language is rediculous when everyone is so excited about spending a quarter of a trillion dollars in the next two years in Iraq.
Aw, come on Giant! It's only a billion dollars a week! It'll take a while for all of that to add up to some insane amount of money.
That's just another weak 'argument,' one with no support or basis.
Pathetic? It's pathetic that anyone cares how many languages it's in when it doesn't effect you in any direct way.
It affects all of us when there are immigrants here for years and years who can't speak English, go on welfare, and can't find decent work because of it. It affects all of us because it costs money to pander and enable and print forms in different languages and that changes all the time. Its pathetic that you can't see this.
I've been living in the EuroZone for quite a long time and see the importance of having at leaast ONE OFFICIAL language. With the entry of many more member states, translators will have a field day. 20? 30 languages??? NUTS!!!
I totally agree there should be an official language (English, duh) but not the suppression of secondary languages.
Having 'support' for a secondary language (like spanish, or chinese in certain places) just complicates things and makes it less an incentive for people to learn English.
When I used to live in New York City as a kid there were quite a few times where shop keeps from far away places COULD NOT SPEAK ENGLISH nor understand properly. I'm sorry, but that just isnt acceptable. And I aint talkin about spanish Harlem or something... Im talking midtown manhattan.
While we're at it, I think the "insert language"-only schools are a horrible thing to have in the US. It will cause more problems than anything else. dammit, you go to LIVE in a new country, learn the fvcking language and customs at least! Keep your own too, by all means, but dont auto-segregate yourselves!!!
Sorry, but if you want to save money, the best place to start is to stop unecessarily invading other countries!
Also, my work is a goverment depository, and I'm pretty sure very little of what comes out of the GPO is in anything but english. I could be wrong and will check tomorrow.
Sorry, but if you want to save money, the best place to start is to stop unecessarily invading other countries!
Also, my work is a goverment depository, and I'm pretty sure very little of what comes out of the GPO is in anything but english. I could be wrong and will check tomorrow.
I agree with you on iraq. What a waste of money and GI lives. Shrub could have waited for International support and funds. Its a boondoggle........................................ ...
I don't know if I'd call it an obsession but it is something that irks me. You're correct, of course, that there is money wasted in many other ways, but I just think its ludicrous not to expect someone to speak English in this country and to make it easy for them not to. There are so many on welfare that can't speak English. That is just crazy. When i read that article and the woman said it was an insult that the ballot was printed in imperfect Spanish it just pissed me off. I consider it an insult to my country, i really do, right or wrong. Latinos are always saying that their culture and heritage should be respected, but I can't say the same about mine? Something just ain't right.
As for the politicians you are correct. Most of them don't have the guts to say what they truly believe. Just a few years ago the vast majority of Republicans publicly stated my beliefs-in fact it was part of the Republican Convention. Now, even though the majority of voters have been found to support the position , the possibility of losing even 10% of the vote is enough to turn a Republican into a pandering Democrat. Thats why USEnglish is facing such an uphill climb. You would think that with a Republican President and Republican Congress it would be a shoe-in. Not anymore...................................
I tend to agree with Steve, being a spanish speaker myself. If you have been here for 20+ years, you should no how to at least hold up a conversation and read in English.
Second, I think it is pure BS that suit in California. Like English, Spanish is a very diverse language. Spanish from Chile, Peru, or Spain, is different in meaning. Certain terms can be derrogatory, while in other places there considered as normal words. So, I think in this instance, perhaps the ballot might have been translated using some regional venacular instead of international (universal) Spanish. Since my parents were from S. America (Chile and Brazil), it would be akin to me trying to read a Mexican publication and not understanding the word usage. I'm sure you all can relate to picking a British or New Zealand magazine and laugh at how they spell or use words.
I do not see it wrong to require people to have a certain competancy level before becoming full citizens. Look at Japan. In order to become a citizen, you have to be able to read, write, and speak almost perfect Japanese. However, I do agree that certain documentation has to be in multiple languages. For example, the documents for important services: health, immigration, and safety information.
With all the bullshit our government spends money on, anyone who tries to make the argument that printing things in multiple languages is a drag on our economy is very very stupid.
Thinly-veiled xenophobia.
This is a government of the people, for the people and by the people. And guess what, geniuses, some of those people don't speak English as their first language. This nation was built on immigration, but now that you've been here for a little while you feel like putting up more restrictions and limiting access for those unlike yourself?
Comments
the best argument, as i've noticed, is its costly (aside from the very convincing "common sense" and being "pathetic"). but the numbers rolling on that site you had linked seem unusually erroneous. on the bottom of this page, a paragraph reads:
According to the Canadian Government, the annual cost of providing government services in both official languages is three cents per Canadian per day. While many sources discredit the theory that official multilingualism costs only pennies per person daily, even this amount spent on only two languages would dramatically impact the American economy.
assuming the U.S. costs the same as Canada (well, they don't provide any other costs, so its all i can go on), and assuming American cents, $0.03 * 292M != $3B. it comes out to around $9M (chump change on the federal level). $9M would not (i dont think) "dramatically impact the American economy."
am i missing something?
Originally posted by thuh Freak
you scare me, steve.
the best argument, as i've noticed, is its costly (aside from the very convincing "common sense" and being "pathetic"). but the numbers rolling on that site you had linked seem unusually erroneous. on the bottom of this page, a paragraph reads:
assuming the U.S. costs the same as Canada (well, they don't provide any other costs, so its all i can go on), and assuming American cents, $0.03 * 292M != $3B. it comes out to around $9M (chump change on the federal level). $9M would not (i dont think) "dramatically impact the American economy."
am i missing something?
Well, we could use that money to build Spanish-only public schools.
Cheers
Scott
Originally posted by thuh Freak
you scare me, steve.
the best argument, as i've noticed, is its costly (aside from the very convincing "common sense" and being "pathetic"). but the numbers rolling on that site you had linked seem unusually erroneous. on the bottom of this page, a paragraph reads:
assuming the U.S. costs the same as Canada (well, they don't provide any other costs, so its all i can go on), and assuming American cents, $0.03 * 292M != $3B. it comes out to around $9M (chump change on the federal level). $9M would not (i dont think) "dramatically impact the American economy."
am i missing something?
Yes you are missing something. The Federal Govmnt isn't paying for it, local Govmnts are. My County is cash-strapped to the point of laying off people and raising our sales tax to 8.75 %. Those few millions of dollars make a big difference. Not only that but as soon as a certain population reaches some kind of threshold, then that language has to be added. New York City has to print pamphlets in Spanish, Mandarin, Vietnamese, and others. I'm sorry, but I find THAT kind of scary! ............................
Originally posted by steve666
And DMV forms should be in English only, its pathetic that they are not.............................................
That's just another weak 'argument,' one with no support or basis.
Pathetic? It's pathetic that anyone cares how many languages it's in when it doesn't effect you in any direct way.
Originally posted by steve666
Just because one immigrant group arrives in large numbers shouldn't change the historical use of English in this country.
You're right. English speaking immigrants arriving in large numbers shouldn't change the historical use of English in this country ... which was that it was never the only, nor the official language.
Oh look, it's Steve666. And no, I still don't really give a damn if my iMac is built in Mexico, Taiwan or the US.
I totally agree there should be an official language (English, duh) but not the suppression of secondary languages.
Having 'support' for a secondary language (like spanish, or chinese in certain places) just complicates things and makes it less an incentive for people to learn English.
When I used to live in New York City as a kid there were quite a few times where shop keeps from far away places COULD NOT SPEAK ENGLISH nor understand properly. I'm sorry, but that just isnt acceptable. And I aint talkin about spanish Harlem or something... Im talking midtown manhattan.
While we're at it, I think the "insert language"-only schools are a horrible thing to have in the US. It will cause more problems than anything else. dammit, you go to LIVE in a new country, learn the fvcking language and customs at least! Keep your own too, by all means, but dont auto-segregate yourselves!!!
Originally posted by BuonRotto
New York, however, is quite an exceptional place. It's almost outrageously cosmopolitan (avoid the overused "d" word
damn straight New York City is its own country. It has NOTHING to do with the rest of the USA.
NYC is the capital of the world, hands down.
Bitching about costs associated with not having an official language is rediculous when everyone is so excited about spending a quarter of a trillion dollars in the next two years in Iraq.
Originally posted by giant
Wait a second. I've got an idea to save money: Stop unecessarily invading other countries!
Bitching about costs associated with not having an official language is rediculous when everyone is so excited about spending a quarter of a trillion dollars in the next two years in Iraq.
Aw, come on Giant! It's only a billion dollars a week! It'll take a while for all of that to add up to some insane amount of money.
Oh. Wait.
Cheers
Scott
Originally posted by trumptman
Si, solo hablo ingles in Los Estados Unidos.
My Spanish is a little rusty, but I think you were going for something more like "Sí, se habla solomente inglés en Los Estatos Unidos."
Originally posted by bunge
That's just another weak 'argument,' one with no support or basis.
Pathetic? It's pathetic that anyone cares how many languages it's in when it doesn't effect you in any direct way.
It affects all of us when there are immigrants here for years and years who can't speak English, go on welfare, and can't find decent work because of it. It affects all of us because it costs money to pander and enable and print forms in different languages and that changes all the time. Its pathetic that you can't see this.
Originally posted by ZO
I've been living in the EuroZone for quite a long time and see the importance of having at leaast ONE OFFICIAL language. With the entry of many more member states, translators will have a field day. 20? 30 languages??? NUTS!!!
I totally agree there should be an official language (English, duh) but not the suppression of secondary languages.
Having 'support' for a secondary language (like spanish, or chinese in certain places) just complicates things and makes it less an incentive for people to learn English.
When I used to live in New York City as a kid there were quite a few times where shop keeps from far away places COULD NOT SPEAK ENGLISH nor understand properly. I'm sorry, but that just isnt acceptable. And I aint talkin about spanish Harlem or something... Im talking midtown manhattan.
While we're at it, I think the "insert language"-only schools are a horrible thing to have in the US. It will cause more problems than anything else. dammit, you go to LIVE in a new country, learn the fvcking language and customs at least! Keep your own too, by all means, but dont auto-segregate yourselves!!!
BINGO!
Originally posted by Eugene
Worst. Idea. Ever.
Oh look, it's Steve666. And no, I still don't really give a damn if my iMac is built in Mexico, Taiwan or the US.
Why should you care? You're getting ripped off and Americans have fewer jobs. No concern for you of course...........
Originally posted by steve666
it costs money
Sorry, but if you want to save money, the best place to start is to stop unecessarily invading other countries!
Also, my work is a goverment depository, and I'm pretty sure very little of what comes out of the GPO is in anything but english. I could be wrong and will check tomorrow.
Originally posted by giant
Sorry, but if you want to save money, the best place to start is to stop unecessarily invading other countries!
Also, my work is a goverment depository, and I'm pretty sure very little of what comes out of the GPO is in anything but english. I could be wrong and will check tomorrow.
I agree with you on iraq. What a waste of money and GI lives. Shrub could have waited for International support and funds. Its a boondoggle........................................ ...
Originally posted by steve666
I don't know if I'd call it an obsession but it is something that irks me. You're correct, of course, that there is money wasted in many other ways, but I just think its ludicrous not to expect someone to speak English in this country and to make it easy for them not to. There are so many on welfare that can't speak English. That is just crazy. When i read that article and the woman said it was an insult that the ballot was printed in imperfect Spanish it just pissed me off. I consider it an insult to my country, i really do, right or wrong. Latinos are always saying that their culture and heritage should be respected, but I can't say the same about mine? Something just ain't right.
As for the politicians you are correct. Most of them don't have the guts to say what they truly believe. Just a few years ago the vast majority of Republicans publicly stated my beliefs-in fact it was part of the Republican Convention. Now, even though the majority of voters have been found to support the position , the possibility of losing even 10% of the vote is enough to turn a Republican into a pandering Democrat. Thats why USEnglish is facing such an uphill climb. You would think that with a Republican President and Republican Congress it would be a shoe-in. Not anymore...................................
I tend to agree with Steve, being a spanish speaker myself. If you have been here for 20+ years, you should no how to at least hold up a conversation and read in English.
Second, I think it is pure BS that suit in California. Like English, Spanish is a very diverse language. Spanish from Chile, Peru, or Spain, is different in meaning. Certain terms can be derrogatory, while in other places there considered as normal words. So, I think in this instance, perhaps the ballot might have been translated using some regional venacular instead of international (universal) Spanish. Since my parents were from S. America (Chile and Brazil), it would be akin to me trying to read a Mexican publication and not understanding the word usage. I'm sure you all can relate to picking a British or New Zealand magazine and laugh at how they spell or use words.
I do not see it wrong to require people to have a certain competancy level before becoming full citizens. Look at Japan. In order to become a citizen, you have to be able to read, write, and speak almost perfect Japanese. However, I do agree that certain documentation has to be in multiple languages. For example, the documents for important services: health, immigration, and safety information.
With all the bullshit our government spends money on, anyone who tries to make the argument that printing things in multiple languages is a drag on our economy is very very stupid.
Thinly-veiled xenophobia.
This is a government of the people, for the people and by the people. And guess what, geniuses, some of those people don't speak English as their first language. This nation was built on immigration, but now that you've been here for a little while you feel like putting up more restrictions and limiting access for those unlike yourself?