What is with you? Are you ever going to provide anything to back up what you are saying.
Furthermore, here's who you are really arguing with when you say the links are wrong:
Quote:
James Crawford ... independent writer and lecturer ? formerly the Washington editor of Education Week ? who specializes in the politics of language. Since 1985, I have been reporting on the English Only movement, English Plus, bilingual education, efforts to save endangered languages, and language rights in the U.S.A._
You remind me of 123 when he argued against some info I posted on disk defragging, not recognizing that the author was the head of the Mac OS 8 team, helped design OS X and now the director of Apple Dev. Relations.
Of course, who the author is doesn't really matter. What matters is backing up your assertions, which you have yet to do.
Alternatively you could embrace the future with some generosity and introduce compulsary Spanish lessons in your schools.
We already have that. Language lessons are compulsory in jr. high and high school, although it would be easier to start learning in elementary school. I had a choice between French and Spanish and chose Spanish, although a larger choice would be nice.............................................. .......
What is with you? Are you ever going to provide anything to back up what you are saying.
Furthermore, here's who you are really arguing with when you say the links are wrong:
You remind me of 123 when he argued against some info I posted on disk defragging, not recognizing that the author was the head of the Mac OS 8 team, helped design OS X and now the director of Apple Dev. Relations.
Of course, who the author is doesn't really matter. What matters is backing up your assertions, which you have yet to do.
What is with YOU? I have provided more than you have. You have yet to back up your assertions except with spurious links that support your incorrect theory. I have lived in LA and NY and I see first-hand the folly of current language policies.
What is with YOU? I have provided more than you have.
Maybe your HS classes didn't get to that part about quality mattering more than quantity.
Anyway, I suppose I could just start giving you more since you need it:
Quote:
English Only advocates ignore the fact that the Internal Revenue Service publishes provides certain forms, informational materials, and oral assistance in Spanish for a simple reason: cost-effectiveness. The amount of taxes collected as a result far exceeds the expenditure.
In sum, the accommodations now available to minority language speakers in the United States ? minimal when compared to those offered by many other countries ? hardly amount to "multilingual government."
English Only proponents have offered no evidence that curtailing such services would save money. To the contrary, passage of a "Language of Government Act" would probably add to the cost of government by making it less efficient. In a 1996 letter to the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee, the Justice Department warned that S._356 could disrupt numerous federal operations that sometimes require the use of languages other than English. A partial list includes the Border Patrol, Immigration and Naturalization Service, Drug Enforcement Administration, Community Relations Service, Civil Rights Division, Bureau of Prisons, Administration on Aging, Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, Office of Refugee Resettlement, Administration for Native Americans, National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect, and the Veterans Administration.
Your constant barbs about my level of education are getting tiresome. Perhaps your mother is a parrot?
You can find plenty of false statements from proponents of multilingualism to copy and paste, it doesn't offer any proof and is just a statement of belief. And its wrong, and so are you.
Sorry, kid, but at some point you are going to need to deal with the real world. This also includes this interesting tidbit:
Late last year, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit relied upon the First Amendment to invalidate an English Only provision. In an en banc decision, Yniguez v. Arizonans for Official English, 69 F.3d 920 (9th Cir. 1995), cert. granted, 64 U.S.L.W. 3635, 3639 (U.S. Mar. 25, 1996) (No. 95-974), a divided court declared that English-only requirements in the Arizona constitution were facially overbroad in violation of the free speech rights of State government employees.
OK I did not sit down and read this whole thread as it is kind of long and I'm tired. However, I would like to add something to it.
The idea behind America was that people would come to our country because they respected and wanted to be like us. From all around the world people came here and they became Americans. They did not loose their old identity or way of like, but rather changed them to function with our ideas. America was an idea that people loved and they came here because they believed in that idea. The idea of democracy and freedom to do what you want with your like. You could do anything if you put your mind to it. Of course this was not perfect but the idea existed and that was what mattered. When Steve666 says that he believes everyone should have to learn English what he is really thinking in the back of his mind is that people should believe in what America is all about. If people do not care enough about America the learn the language spoken here this is the first step to the down fall of our country. The idea that once brought people here will be lost and we will become a 2nd or 3rd world country in time.
even though millions and millions of foreign speaking immigrants have come to america in the last 300 years or so and english has still managed to be the national language, and even though immigration is at the lowest it's ever been, steve666 wants to legislate english as the national language.
someone is suing someone over a misinterpreted translation and steve666 thinks this would solve the problem.
Sorry, kid, but at some point you are going to need to deal with the real world. This also includes this interesting tidbit:
Late last year, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit relied upon the First Amendment to invalidate an English Only provision. In an en banc decision, Yniguez v. Arizonans for Official English, 69 F.3d 920 (9th Cir. 1995), cert. granted, 64 U.S.L.W. 3635, 3639 (U.S. Mar. 25, 1996) (No. 95-974), a divided court declared that English-only requirements in the Arizona constitution were facially overbroad in violation of the free speech rights of State government employees.<
You mean its not possible that the Assistant Attorney general has taken sides in the dispute? As for the court ruling, they rule one way then the other way on appeal. Just like the California recall, where the liberal court ruled against the recall, then was overturned by a more conservative court. They are men and women like everyone else and interpret things differently just like we do. It proves nothing but a difference of opinion. How can in be unconstitutional to have everyone speak the same language?
OK I did not sit down and read this whole thread as it is kind of long and I'm tired. However, I would like to add something to it.
The idea behind America was that people would come to our country because they respected and wanted to be like us. From all around the world people came here and they became Americans. They did not loose their old identity or way of like, but rather changed them to function with our ideas. America was an idea that people loved and they came here because they believed in that idea. The idea of democracy and freedom to do what you want with your like. You could do anything if you put your mind to it. Of course this was not perfect but the idea existed and that was what mattered. When Steve666 says that he believes everyone should have to learn English what he is really thinking in the back of his mind is that people should believe in what America is all about. If people do not care enough about America the learn the language spoken here this is the first step to the down fall of our country. The idea that once brought people here will be lost and we will become a 2nd or 3rd world country in time.
Exactly! And the best example of this is California, where you can see a microcosm of what this country is going to be like, and God help us all. I lived in California for 10 years and it is turning into a ****ing disaster area!
even though millions and millions of foreign speaking immigrants have come to america in the last 300 years or so and english has still managed to be the national language, and even though immigration is at the lowest it's ever been, steve666 wants to legislate english as the national language.
someone is suing someone over a misinterpreted translation and steve666 thinks this would solve the problem.
First of all immigration is at about the highest its ever been, do you live in Wyoming?
I am solving a problem that never should have been a problem in the first place. There is no reason at all to print any govmnt form in anything other than English, so just print everything in English and theres nothing left to talk about.
On the lighter side, You and Giant might like this, something my friend emailed me:
Health Alert...
For those of you who watch what you eat... (and keep sending me health
warnings about it)
Here's the final word on nutrition and health. It's a relief to know
the truth after all those conflicting medical studies:
1. The Japanese eat very little fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than
the Americans.
2. The Mexicans eat a lot of fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than
the Americans.
3. The Japanese drink very little red wine and suffer fewer heart
attacks than the Americans.
4. The Italians drink excessive amounts of red wine and suffer fewer
heart attacks than the Americans.
5. The Germans drink a lot of beers and eat lots of sausages and fats
and suffer fewer heart attacks than the Americans.
CONCLUSION: Eat and drink what you like. Speaking English is apparently
It's really odd seeing this kid just keep going and going and going even in the face of overwhelming evidence discrediting even the most fundamental premises of his belief system.
I guess I just haven't been around teenagers in a while and forget how ridiculous they are. Well, last night I was eating a a restaurant and these two teenage girls were with one of their families, but they kept going in and out of the restaurant over and over again. Good, teenagers are weird.
It's really odd seeing this kid just keep going and going and going even in the face of overwhelming evidence discrediting even the most fundamental premises of his belief system.
I guess I just haven't been around teenagers in a while and forget how ridiculous they are. Well, last night I was eating a a restaurant and these two teenage girls were with one of their families, but they kept going in and out of the restaurant over and over again. Good, teenagers are weird.
Thats the best you can come up with? You're boring me. And since I'm so bored I'm going to let someone else do the talking for me:
Of course the official language movement is a part of the culture wars; the conflict between competing visions of American identity. In the early 20th century, immigrants were eager to shed their old world identities and become assimilated citizens of a nation based on the foundations of British culture and American civic identity. The immigration debate of that era was not over the core values and culture of American society - that was never in dispute - but over the ability of the European masses to assimilate.
Today, the landscape has changed. The diversity crowd challenges the idea of a common American identity and the goals of assimilation. The ethnic immigrants, or at least their self-appointed spokesmen, bring a history of resentment (even hatred) of western values and Anglo-European culture. The American Left no longer considers the tensions of American society to be between classes, but between gender and ethnic ?groups? and group rights. The old liberal ideal of individual rights and freedom of thought is being assaulted by new ideologies that suggest rights are rooted in the group or tribe, that ?hate? speech for the ?racist? dominate culture must be curtailed, that one?s tribal identity must be used to determine one?s right to work, scholarships, and public schooling.
The ?multiculturalists? ideal is not that of the 1930?s liberal (becoming a new man, an American citizen) but of a society divided along racial and ethnic lines.
...., you confuse the progress made on civil rights and the liberal ideal, with that of the ethnic sectarians. Progress is when American society enforces equal and non-discriminatory treatment before the law (14th amendment), not when it creates racial, ethnic, and gender identity classifications and treats citizens according to their race or group. Progress is when all individuals have a right to free speech, not when they are suppressed and shouted down by tribal groups. Progress is made when immigrants learn and earn citizenship, and then assimilate into a common American identity devoted to the nation?s values of liberty and democracy, not when they aspire to form new entitlement groups for scholarships, welfare, etc. with alien residency rights.
Comments
Originally posted by steve666
Plus, your links are wrong.
What is with you? Are you ever going to provide anything to back up what you are saying.
Furthermore, here's who you are really arguing with when you say the links are wrong:
James Crawford ... independent writer and lecturer ? formerly the Washington editor of Education Week ? who specializes in the politics of language. Since 1985, I have been reporting on the English Only movement, English Plus, bilingual education, efforts to save endangered languages, and language rights in the U.S.A._
You remind me of 123 when he argued against some info I posted on disk defragging, not recognizing that the author was the head of the Mac OS 8 team, helped design OS X and now the director of Apple Dev. Relations.
Of course, who the author is doesn't really matter. What matters is backing up your assertions, which you have yet to do.
Originally posted by giant
You remind me of 123....
I thought you were talking about the Billy Wilder movie.
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
Alternatively you could embrace the future with some generosity and introduce compulsary Spanish lessons in your schools.
We already have that. Language lessons are compulsory in jr. high and high school, although it would be easier to start learning in elementary school. I had a choice between French and Spanish and chose Spanish, although a larger choice would be nice.............................................. .......
Originally posted by giant
What is with you? Are you ever going to provide anything to back up what you are saying.
Furthermore, here's who you are really arguing with when you say the links are wrong:
You remind me of 123 when he argued against some info I posted on disk defragging, not recognizing that the author was the head of the Mac OS 8 team, helped design OS X and now the director of Apple Dev. Relations.
Of course, who the author is doesn't really matter. What matters is backing up your assertions, which you have yet to do.
What is with YOU? I have provided more than you have. You have yet to back up your assertions except with spurious links that support your incorrect theory. I have lived in LA and NY and I see first-hand the folly of current language policies.
Originally posted by steve666
What is with YOU? I have provided more than you have.
Maybe your HS classes didn't get to that part about quality mattering more than quantity.
Anyway, I suppose I could just start giving you more since you need it:
English Only advocates ignore the fact that the Internal Revenue Service publishes provides certain forms, informational materials, and oral assistance in Spanish for a simple reason: cost-effectiveness. The amount of taxes collected as a result far exceeds the expenditure.
In sum, the accommodations now available to minority language speakers in the United States ? minimal when compared to those offered by many other countries ? hardly amount to "multilingual government."
English Only proponents have offered no evidence that curtailing such services would save money. To the contrary, passage of a "Language of Government Act" would probably add to the cost of government by making it less efficient. In a 1996 letter to the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee, the Justice Department warned that S._356 could disrupt numerous federal operations that sometimes require the use of languages other than English. A partial list includes the Border Patrol, Immigration and Naturalization Service, Drug Enforcement Administration, Community Relations Service, Civil Rights Division, Bureau of Prisons, Administration on Aging, Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, Office of Refugee Resettlement, Administration for Native Americans, National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect, and the Veterans Administration.
Hmmmm.....
From the same site: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...D/can-mult.htm
Originally posted by giant
Maybe your HS classes didn't get to that part about quality mattering more than quantity.
Anyway, I suppose I could just start giving you more since you need it:
Hmmmm.....
From the same site: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...D/can-mult.htm
Your constant barbs about my level of education are getting tiresome. Perhaps your mother is a parrot?
You can find plenty of false statements from proponents of multilingualism to copy and paste, it doesn't offer any proof and is just a statement of belief. And its wrong, and so are you.
Originally posted by steve666
Perhaps your mother is a parrot?
oooooo. You sure got me there
You can find plenty of false statements from proponents of multilingualism to copy and paste
You mean like from the Office of the Assistant Attorney General?
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...AWFORD/doj.htm
Sorry, kid, but at some point you are going to need to deal with the real world. This also includes this interesting tidbit:
Late last year, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit relied upon the First Amendment to invalidate an English Only provision. In an en banc decision, Yniguez v. Arizonans for Official English, 69 F.3d 920 (9th Cir. 1995), cert. granted, 64 U.S.L.W. 3635, 3639 (U.S. Mar. 25, 1996) (No. 95-974), a divided court declared that English-only requirements in the Arizona constitution were facially overbroad in violation of the free speech rights of State government employees.
The idea behind America was that people would come to our country because they respected and wanted to be like us. From all around the world people came here and they became Americans. They did not loose their old identity or way of like, but rather changed them to function with our ideas. America was an idea that people loved and they came here because they believed in that idea. The idea of democracy and freedom to do what you want with your like. You could do anything if you put your mind to it. Of course this was not perfect but the idea existed and that was what mattered. When Steve666 says that he believes everyone should have to learn English what he is really thinking in the back of his mind is that people should believe in what America is all about. If people do not care enough about America the learn the language spoken here this is the first step to the down fall of our country. The idea that once brought people here will be lost and we will become a 2nd or 3rd world country in time.
someone is suing someone over a misinterpreted translation and steve666 thinks this would solve the problem.
You mean like from the Office of the Assistant Attorney General?
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/home...RAWFORD/doj.htm
Sorry, kid, but at some point you are going to need to deal with the real world. This also includes this interesting tidbit:
Late last year, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit relied upon the First Amendment to invalidate an English Only provision. In an en banc decision, Yniguez v. Arizonans for Official English, 69 F.3d 920 (9th Cir. 1995), cert. granted, 64 U.S.L.W. 3635, 3639 (U.S. Mar. 25, 1996) (No. 95-974), a divided court declared that English-only requirements in the Arizona constitution were facially overbroad in violation of the free speech rights of State government employees.<
You mean its not possible that the Assistant Attorney general has taken sides in the dispute? As for the court ruling, they rule one way then the other way on appeal. Just like the California recall, where the liberal court ruled against the recall, then was overturned by a more conservative court. They are men and women like everyone else and interpret things differently just like we do. It proves nothing but a difference of opinion. How can in be unconstitutional to have everyone speak the same language?
Originally posted by Algol
OK I did not sit down and read this whole thread as it is kind of long and I'm tired. However, I would like to add something to it.
The idea behind America was that people would come to our country because they respected and wanted to be like us. From all around the world people came here and they became Americans. They did not loose their old identity or way of like, but rather changed them to function with our ideas. America was an idea that people loved and they came here because they believed in that idea. The idea of democracy and freedom to do what you want with your like. You could do anything if you put your mind to it. Of course this was not perfect but the idea existed and that was what mattered. When Steve666 says that he believes everyone should have to learn English what he is really thinking in the back of his mind is that people should believe in what America is all about. If people do not care enough about America the learn the language spoken here this is the first step to the down fall of our country. The idea that once brought people here will be lost and we will become a 2nd or 3rd world country in time.
Exactly! And the best example of this is California, where you can see a microcosm of what this country is going to be like, and God help us all. I lived in California for 10 years and it is turning into a ****ing disaster area!
Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar
even though millions and millions of foreign speaking immigrants have come to america in the last 300 years or so and english has still managed to be the national language, and even though immigration is at the lowest it's ever been, steve666 wants to legislate english as the national language.
someone is suing someone over a misinterpreted translation and steve666 thinks this would solve the problem.
First of all immigration is at about the highest its ever been, do you live in Wyoming?
I am solving a problem that never should have been a problem in the first place. There is no reason at all to print any govmnt form in anything other than English, so just print everything in English and theres nothing left to talk about.
On the lighter side, You and Giant might like this, something my friend emailed me:
Health Alert...
For those of you who watch what you eat... (and keep sending me health
warnings about it)
Here's the final word on nutrition and health. It's a relief to know
the truth after all those conflicting medical studies:
1. The Japanese eat very little fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than
the Americans.
2. The Mexicans eat a lot of fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than
the Americans.
3. The Japanese drink very little red wine and suffer fewer heart
attacks than the Americans.
4. The Italians drink excessive amounts of red wine and suffer fewer
heart attacks than the Americans.
5. The Germans drink a lot of beers and eat lots of sausages and fats
and suffer fewer heart attacks than the Americans.
CONCLUSION: Eat and drink what you like. Speaking English is apparently
what kills you.
Originally posted by steve666
You can pull links out of your ass all night long, and i can find plenty of sources on USEnglish's website that says just the opposite.
There's a subject-verb agreement error in this sentence.
Cheers
Scott
I guess I just haven't been around teenagers in a while and forget how ridiculous they are. Well, last night I was eating a a restaurant and these two teenage girls were with one of their families, but they kept going in and out of the restaurant over and over again. Good, teenagers are weird.
Originally posted by giant
It's really odd seeing this kid just keep going and going and going even in the face of overwhelming evidence discrediting even the most fundamental premises of his belief system.
I guess I just haven't been around teenagers in a while and forget how ridiculous they are. Well, last night I was eating a a restaurant and these two teenage girls were with one of their families, but they kept going in and out of the restaurant over and over again. Good, teenagers are weird.
Thats the best you can come up with? You're boring me. And since I'm so bored I'm going to let someone else do the talking for me:
Of course the official language movement is a part of the culture wars; the conflict between competing visions of American identity. In the early 20th century, immigrants were eager to shed their old world identities and become assimilated citizens of a nation based on the foundations of British culture and American civic identity. The immigration debate of that era was not over the core values and culture of American society - that was never in dispute - but over the ability of the European masses to assimilate.
Today, the landscape has changed. The diversity crowd challenges the idea of a common American identity and the goals of assimilation. The ethnic immigrants, or at least their self-appointed spokesmen, bring a history of resentment (even hatred) of western values and Anglo-European culture. The American Left no longer considers the tensions of American society to be between classes, but between gender and ethnic ?groups? and group rights. The old liberal ideal of individual rights and freedom of thought is being assaulted by new ideologies that suggest rights are rooted in the group or tribe, that ?hate? speech for the ?racist? dominate culture must be curtailed, that one?s tribal identity must be used to determine one?s right to work, scholarships, and public schooling.
The ?multiculturalists? ideal is not that of the 1930?s liberal (becoming a new man, an American citizen) but of a society divided along racial and ethnic lines.
...., you confuse the progress made on civil rights and the liberal ideal, with that of the ethnic sectarians. Progress is when American society enforces equal and non-discriminatory treatment before the law (14th amendment), not when it creates racial, ethnic, and gender identity classifications and treats citizens according to their race or group. Progress is when all individuals have a right to free speech, not when they are suppressed and shouted down by tribal groups. Progress is made when immigrants learn and earn citizenship, and then assimilate into a common American identity devoted to the nation?s values of liberty and democracy, not when they aspire to form new entitlement groups for scholarships, welfare, etc. with alien residency rights.
Originally posted by steve666
First of all immigration is at about the highest its ever been, do you live in Wyoming?
i live in chicago (euphemism deleted),
immigration average now is about 700,000 a year, it was at it's lowest during the clinton administration.
in the early 1900 we peaked at about 8 million immigrants a year.
(edit = removed euphemism turd-burglar)
Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar
i live in chicago (euphemism deleted),
immigration average now is about 700,000 a year, it was at it's lowest during the clinton administration.
in the early 1900 we peaked at about 8 million immigrants a year.
(edit = removed euphemism turd-burglar)
You took out the best part of your post!
turd-burglar
Immigration levels are at the highest they have been since the 1900's. Comparing them to the 1940's and on till today.
Originally posted by steve666
You took out the best part of your post!
turd-burlgar
Immigration levels are at the highest they have been since the 1900's. Comparing them to the 1940's and on till today.
you said the highest it's EVER been. and apparently immigrants in the 19th century were all virtuous and morally correct, unlike todays.
have you ever read things americans said about immigrants in the 19th century? do you have a clue.
or are you just going to play calvin-ball on this subject.
Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar
you said the highest it's EVER been. and apparently immigrants in the 19th century were all virtuous and morally correct, unlike todays.
have you ever read things americans said about immigrants in the 19th century? do you have a clue.
or are you just going to play calvin-ball on this subject.
Are you making a point? If you are its not very clear.