actually there's a standardized test for aggressiveness in dogs.
IIRC, pit bulls passed just fine.
if you're some wanna be thug you don't get a golden retreiver and train it to attack people because it doesn't look as cool. you get a big, scary looking dog and go from there. that doesn't mean the big scary dog is more likely to attack people (all other factors being equal) than your typical cuddly dog.
i'll find the study.
Was that study sponsored by the Pit Bull Lovers' Association? I've seen a pitbull who was raised SPOILED to the core by a very loving family get MAD crazy when she saw one of my dogs. Good thing I noticed her reaction on time and shut the door almost on her face. Otherwise there would have been one badly injured retriever and one dead pit bull. Edit: would it have attacked me? I doubt it because my 105 retriever would have kept her busy for a few minutes while I got at least a bat to defend myself. However, that dog was in a ****ing blind rage and out of control. Needless to say my friends got rid of her FAST.
By the way, pit bulls are mostly smaller, ugly muscular dogs. If your big and scary theory were true, we'd have killer St Bernards and Great Danes.
There was a great episode of NOVA a few weeks back in which some Dude Of Science discussed how man has bred the grey wolf over the millennia to take advantage of the various aspects of the wolf's natural hunting instincts. Certain of these natural instincts have been honed for various purposes: herding, flushing game, retrieving game. Each breed has been developed to heighten that instinct/behavior to the extreme. Bloodhounds can track with phenomenal accuracy, retrievers bring back game without employing the "bite/kill" behavior....a retriever that exhibits this behavior is said to have "hard mouth" and is considered to be a reject.
"Hard Mouth" is what the Pit Bull Terrier specializes in. I don't think that anybody in this thread would try to claim that this isn't the "superhero specialty" of this dog.
Was that study sponsored by the Pit Bull Lovers' Association? I've seen a pitbull who was raised SPOILED to the core by a very loving family get MAD crazy when she saw one of my dogs. Good thing I noticed her reaction on time and shut the door almost on her face. Otherwise there would have been one badly injured retriever and one dead pit bull.
By the way, pit bulls are mostly smaller, ugly muscular dogs. If your big and scary theory were true, we'd have killer St Bernards and Great Danes.
Exactly. The son of my old high school groundskeeper has a Pit Bull, which he'd refer to others as an "American Terrier." Every day after school, there's an informal dog social hour where mostly old folk and students bring their dogs to play. Needless to say, the Pit Bull was raised among lots of people and dogs, so you'd expect it to behave. Nope, one day it locked its jaw on my German Shepherd for no reason at all. My dog fought back naturally, but he wasn't really a match despite being probably 25 pounds heavier.
The question is...do you believe it? Can something like temperament be quantified as a percentage point?
well, i can either believe a scientific study with little to no agenda, or Action News!!!.
who do i think is going to give a more accurate portrayal of reality? the studies.
ok, here's all i'm trying to get across.
Pit Bulls are not naturally aggressive towards people. (at least no more often than any other breed from everything i've read)
They are more likely to be aggressive towards other dogs. that doesn't mean they'll attack people. just because i don't like cats doesn't mean i don't like all animals. it's fairly common in nature for an animal to be aggressive towards other animals of the same species and not care about other species.
The biggest problem with pit bulls is people buying them for the wrong reasons. if you took 100 golden retreivers, tried to make them all attack people, and dumped the ones that weren't aggressive enough on the street, you'd have an increase in golden retreiver attacks. the same thing happens with pit bulls.
down in NM they have packs of wild dogs. many of these dogs are "friendly/safe" breeds. they'll take your arm off if they can catch you. they are wild animals, and if treated as such will act like such.
the only science regarding this subject (aggressiveness) has found that pit bulls are no more aggressive than other dogs. at least not enough to be considered aggressive, although i'm sure there's variation between the dozens of breeds.
some names you might find interesting.
of pitt bulls tested, over 83.2% passed. (337 of 405)
there are a pile of breeds that did worse that aren't considered "aggressive".
(including the Golden Retreiver) at 82.5% AHHH, kill 'em all!!!!!
the study was done by the "American Termperment Test Society". not sure what their agenda is, but they included tests on thousands of different dogs.
You keep dancing around one issue though. I brought it up. BRussell brought it up. Wasn't the Pit Bull (American "Pit" Bull Terrier) originally breeded as fighting dog? Please answer.
You keep dancing around one issue though. I brought it up. BRussell brought it up. Wasn't the Pit Bull (American "Pit" Bull Terrier) originally breeded as fighting dog? Please answer.
weren't white people originally bred to be pale and handle the cold without necessity of much melanin? and weren't mexicans bred to be the opposite? does that mean that mexicans can never lose their pigment over generations or that whites can never gain melanin?
Okay, here's an FAQ on Pit Bull Terriers....everybody take a moment to peruse it (note that they even fought over the contents of the FAQ while they prepared it).
My dog has only been attacked by one dog in its life, and that dog was a Pit Bull.
of course! we already established that they hate other dogs. the issue here is aggression towards people, not dogs. they are completely different, and if you dont agree then you have alot to learn about canine behavior.
dogs in general have a natural aggression towards other dogs and animals that could be considered prey (humans are NOT in this category). ALL dogs have this as an inherent trait passed on from the wolves that they descended from. some dogs are closer genetically to this ancestry. in my opinion and experience, chows are more dangerous animals simply because they are closer to the lineage of the wild canine. chows bite randomly for absolutely no reason--i have been snapped at just for walking one. just an aside...
Many people equate or confuse aggressivness towards other dogs with aggressivness towards humans. I have seen newspaper reports in which "concerned neighbors" are quoted saying things like, "This time it killed a stray cat; tomorrow it may be my children." Yet animal-aggressiveness is an entirely different thing from human-aggressiveness. There is no reason to infer from its killing a cat that a dog--any dog, not just an APBT--will ever show aggression toward human beings. Dogs can and do discriminate, even if irate neighbors cannot.
of course! we already established that they hate other dogs. the issue here is aggression towards people, not dogs. they are completely different, and if you dont agree then you have alot to learn about canine behavior.
I think the issue is aggression in general.
Pit Bulls that have shown human-aggression were killed on the spot in the old days, but obviously not now. Also, what kind of behavior training do you think is required to make a Pit Bull non-dog-aggressive? That'd be repressing its natural instincts...
And since when is it okay for Pit Bulls to be dog-aggressive anyway?
Pit Bulls that have shown human-aggression were killed on the spot in the old days, but obviously not now. Also, what kind of behavior training do you think is required to make a Pit Bull non-dog-aggressive? That'd be repressing its natural instincts...
And since when is it okay for Pit Bull's to be dog-aggressive anyway?
did you not listen to anything being said here?!?!
ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL freakin dogs are inherently aggressive towards other dogs. it is NOT JUST PIT BULLS. if you are angry at pitbulls, then you should be pissed at others dogs too. just because this dog has the tools to actually win the fight should be put aside for a minute. other dogs hate eachother as well. my dogs hate other dogs. other dogs hate them. my dogs LOVE people. and yet people are afraid of them because they look mean...
chihuahuas are some of the most aggressive dogs around, but yet they dont win too many fights. they are very dog-aggressive as you put it--moreso in my opinion than pitbulls.
oh, and dogs that are human-aggressive are euthanized, so that point is invalid.
did you not listen to anything being said here?!?!
ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL freakin dogs are inherently aggressive towards other dogs. it is NOT JUST PIT BULLS. if you are angry at pitbulls, then you should be pissed at others dogs too. just because this dog has the tools to actually win the fight should be put aside for a minute. other dogs hate eachother as well. my dogs hate other dogs. other dogs hate them. my dogs LOVE people. and yet people are afraid of them because they look mean...
chihuahuas are some of the most aggressive dogs around, but yet they dont win too many fights. they are very dog-aggressive as you put it--moreso in my opinion than pitbulls.
oh, and dogs that are human-aggressive are euthanized, so that point is invalid.
Okay, ignoring the human thing for now...you still think a Pit Bull is no more dog-aggressive than a breed not bred for pit fighting?
And sure, size matters when it comes to how dangerous a breed is, but the issue is aggression. So yes, aggressive Chihuahuas suck.
And no, most dogs who are human aggressive are protected by their owners and nto euthanized. The only times dogs are euthanized these days are when they are sick, have no owners or have been identified as having done something heinous, like mauling somebody.
And no, most dogs who are human aggressive are protected by their owners and nto euthanized. The only times dogs are euthanized these days are when they are sick, have no owners or have been identified as having done something heinous, like mauling somebody.
that is simply incorrect. if a dog attacks a human, he is considered a dangerous animal and you can get a court order to take custody of the animal if the owners dont cooperate. i know this because my dogs attacked my neighbors dog and they claimed that my dogs were dangerous and had them detained by animal control. we went to court and got it dismissed because they have never been anything close to aggressive towards a human being. if they had, then we would not have been able to "bail them out" of their prison cells in animal control and they would have eventually been put down.
Comments
Originally posted by alcimedes
actually there's a standardized test for aggressiveness in dogs.
IIRC, pit bulls passed just fine.
if you're some wanna be thug you don't get a golden retreiver and train it to attack people because it doesn't look as cool. you get a big, scary looking dog and go from there. that doesn't mean the big scary dog is more likely to attack people (all other factors being equal) than your typical cuddly dog.
i'll find the study.
Was that study sponsored by the Pit Bull Lovers' Association? I've seen a pitbull who was raised SPOILED to the core by a very loving family get MAD crazy when she saw one of my dogs. Good thing I noticed her reaction on time and shut the door almost on her face. Otherwise there would have been one badly injured retriever and one dead pit bull.
By the way, pit bulls are mostly smaller, ugly muscular dogs. If your big and scary theory were true, we'd have killer St Bernards and Great Danes.
"Hard Mouth" is what the Pit Bull Terrier specializes in. I don't think that anybody in this thread would try to claim that this isn't the "superhero specialty" of this dog.
Originally posted by Gilsch
Was that study sponsored by the Pit Bull Lovers' Association? I've seen a pitbull who was raised SPOILED to the core by a very loving family get MAD crazy when she saw one of my dogs. Good thing I noticed her reaction on time and shut the door almost on her face. Otherwise there would have been one badly injured retriever and one dead pit bull.
By the way, pit bulls are mostly smaller, ugly muscular dogs. If your big and scary theory were true, we'd have killer St Bernards and Great Danes.
Exactly. The son of my old high school groundskeeper has a Pit Bull, which he'd refer to others as an "American Terrier." Every day after school, there's an informal dog social hour where mostly old folk and students bring their dogs to play. Needless to say, the Pit Bull was raised among lots of people and dogs, so you'd expect it to behave. Nope, one day it locked its jaw on my German Shepherd for no reason at all. My dog fought back naturally, but he wasn't really a match despite being probably 25 pounds heavier.
The question is...do you believe it? Can something like temperament be quantified as a percentage point?
well, i can either believe a scientific study with little to no agenda, or Action News!!!.
who do i think is going to give a more accurate portrayal of reality? the studies.
ok, here's all i'm trying to get across.
Pit Bulls are not naturally aggressive towards people. (at least no more often than any other breed from everything i've read)
They are more likely to be aggressive towards other dogs. that doesn't mean they'll attack people. just because i don't like cats doesn't mean i don't like all animals. it's fairly common in nature for an animal to be aggressive towards other animals of the same species and not care about other species.
The biggest problem with pit bulls is people buying them for the wrong reasons. if you took 100 golden retreivers, tried to make them all attack people, and dumped the ones that weren't aggressive enough on the street, you'd have an increase in golden retreiver attacks. the same thing happens with pit bulls.
down in NM they have packs of wild dogs. many of these dogs are "friendly/safe" breeds. they'll take your arm off if they can catch you. they are wild animals, and if treated as such will act like such.
the only science regarding this subject (aggressiveness) has found that pit bulls are no more aggressive than other dogs. at least not enough to be considered aggressive, although i'm sure there's variation between the dozens of breeds.
some names you might find interesting.
of pitt bulls tested, over 83.2% passed. (337 of 405)
there are a pile of breeds that did worse that aren't considered "aggressive".
(including the Golden Retreiver) at 82.5% AHHH, kill 'em all!!!!!
the study was done by the "American Termperment Test Society". not sure what their agenda is, but they included tests on thousands of different dogs.
You keep dancing around one issue though. I brought it up. BRussell brought it up. Wasn't the Pit Bull (American "Pit" Bull Terrier) originally breeded as fighting dog? Please answer.
Originally posted by alcimedes
well, i can either believe a scientific study with little to no agenda, or Action News!!!.
who do i think is going to give a more accurate portrayal of reality? the studies.
well eugene, of course. he's always right and won't take contradiction as a possibility...
that means he's the best source.
Originally posted by Eugene
The tragedy here is that you believe it.
You keep dancing around one issue though. I brought it up. BRussell brought it up. Wasn't the Pit Bull (American "Pit" Bull Terrier) originally breeded as fighting dog? Please answer.
weren't white people originally bred to be pale and handle the cold without necessity of much melanin? and weren't mexicans bred to be the opposite? does that mean that mexicans can never lose their pigment over generations or that whites can never gain melanin?
as i've said all throughout this thread. PIT BULLS ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE DOG AGGRESSIVE.
did you get it that time?
(that is due to their being bred for dog fighting)
Originally posted by _ alliance _
well eugene, of course. he's always right and won't take contradiction as a possibility...
that means he's the best source.
Nope, only my own personal experience is absolutely trustworthy. My dog has only been attacked by one dog in its life, and that dog was a Pit Bull.
Originally posted by alcimedes
well, i'd quote myself but then i'd be afraid you wouldn't read it.
as i've said all throughout this thread. PIT BULLS ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE DOG AGGRESSIVE.
did you get it that time?
(that is due to their being bred for dog fighting)
You only now admitted they were bred for fighting.
And you don't think this translates to aggression toward other animals?
and the only science anyone has found on the subject supports that claim.
read up on the aggression test they put the dogs through. it's thorough.
i would like to hear your explanation for Goldens being more aggressive than Pit Bulls.
Originally posted by Eugene
My dog has only been attacked by one dog in its life, and that dog was a Pit Bull.
of course! we already established that they hate other dogs. the issue here is aggression towards people, not dogs. they are completely different, and if you dont agree then you have alot to learn about canine behavior.
With this
breed, human-aggressiveness is rare. Until fairly recently in the
APBT's breeding history, this highly undesireable trait was kept
out of the breed through brutal simplicity: a dog that displayed
aggression toward people was shot on the spot, no second chance.
As a result of this ruthless culling, today you're more likely to
encounter the opposite problem: figuring out how to restrain your
dog's insistence on licking every face that goes by. However, as
in all breeds, there will occasionally be a human-aggressive
individual--usually, but not always, the result of backyard
breeding or neglect and abuse. Owning such a dog is, to say the
least, a tremendous liability. There are various degrees and
causes of human-aggressiveness in dogs. Sometimes the problem is
classic dominance-aggression, and it can be nipped in the bud at
an early age if you appropriately re-establish your dominance.
In any case, at the first sign of a problem, you should immediately
seek expert help from a behaviorist or trainer with experience
specifically with this breed. For your own safety, the safety of
your neighbors, and for the sake of the breed, you should not
hesitate to euthanize such a dog if necessary.
another quote
Many people equate or confuse aggressivness towards other dogs with aggressivness towards humans. I have seen newspaper reports in which "concerned neighbors" are quoted saying things like, "This time it killed a stray cat; tomorrow it may be my children." Yet animal-aggressiveness is an entirely different thing from human-aggressiveness. There is no reason to infer from its killing a cat that a dog--any dog, not just an APBT--will ever show aggression toward human beings. Dogs can and do discriminate, even if irate neighbors cannot.
Originally posted by _ alliance _
of course! we already established that they hate other dogs. the issue here is aggression towards people, not dogs. they are completely different, and if you dont agree then you have alot to learn about canine behavior.
I think the issue is aggression in general.
Pit Bulls that have shown human-aggression were killed on the spot in the old days, but obviously not now. Also, what kind of behavior training do you think is required to make a Pit Bull non-dog-aggressive? That'd be repressing its natural instincts...
And since when is it okay for Pit Bulls to be dog-aggressive anyway?
Originally posted by Eugene
I think the issue is aggression in general.
Pit Bulls that have shown human-aggression were killed on the spot in the old days, but obviously not now. Also, what kind of behavior training do you think is required to make a Pit Bull non-dog-aggressive? That'd be repressing its natural instincts...
And since when is it okay for Pit Bull's to be dog-aggressive anyway?
did you not listen to anything being said here?!?!
ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL freakin dogs are inherently aggressive towards other dogs. it is NOT JUST PIT BULLS. if you are angry at pitbulls, then you should be pissed at others dogs too. just because this dog has the tools to actually win the fight should be put aside for a minute. other dogs hate eachother as well. my dogs hate other dogs. other dogs hate them. my dogs LOVE people. and yet people are afraid of them because they look mean...
chihuahuas are some of the most aggressive dogs around, but yet they dont win too many fights. they are very dog-aggressive as you put it--moreso in my opinion than pitbulls.
oh, and dogs that are human-aggressive are euthanized, so that point is invalid.
Originally posted by _ alliance _
did you not listen to anything being said here?!?!
ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL freakin dogs are inherently aggressive towards other dogs. it is NOT JUST PIT BULLS. if you are angry at pitbulls, then you should be pissed at others dogs too. just because this dog has the tools to actually win the fight should be put aside for a minute. other dogs hate eachother as well. my dogs hate other dogs. other dogs hate them. my dogs LOVE people. and yet people are afraid of them because they look mean...
chihuahuas are some of the most aggressive dogs around, but yet they dont win too many fights. they are very dog-aggressive as you put it--moreso in my opinion than pitbulls.
oh, and dogs that are human-aggressive are euthanized, so that point is invalid.
Okay, ignoring the human thing for now...you still think a Pit Bull is no more dog-aggressive than a breed not bred for pit fighting?
And sure, size matters when it comes to how dangerous a breed is, but the issue is aggression. So yes, aggressive Chihuahuas suck.
And no, most dogs who are human aggressive are protected by their owners and nto euthanized. The only times dogs are euthanized these days are when they are sick, have no owners or have been identified as having done something heinous, like mauling somebody.
Originally posted by Eugene
And no, most dogs who are human aggressive are protected by their owners and nto euthanized. The only times dogs are euthanized these days are when they are sick, have no owners or have been identified as having done something heinous, like mauling somebody.
that is simply incorrect. if a dog attacks a human, he is considered a dangerous animal and you can get a court order to take custody of the animal if the owners dont cooperate. i know this because my dogs attacked my neighbors dog and they claimed that my dogs were dangerous and had them detained by animal control. we went to court and got it dismissed because they have never been anything close to aggressive towards a human being. if they had, then we would not have been able to "bail them out" of their prison cells in animal control and they would have eventually been put down.