Why aren't there any fights in olympic ice hockey?
Sorry for jumping in late here, but, primarily, the lack of fighting in the Olympics (and the World Juniors and other tournaments) is the format: every game is important. Whether it's the round robin to achieve the medal round or the medal round's "lose and out" format, many teams don't wish to risk taking penalties--especially due to fighting. Giving up a power-play goal due to a "stupid" penalty (as opposed to holding or interference--that may be needed to prevent a goal or scoring chance) can be the difference in playing for gold or the bronze.
This is also why there's typically less fighting during the NHL playoffs. While it's a string of seven-game series, it doesn't take much to flip around momentum. A given team doesn't want to add any motivation to an underdog or risk a player suspension.
With the Olympics, obviously, there's an attitude of goodwill and sportsmanship (judges, steroids, and faked urine tests notwithstanding).
All that said. Suspension should be: rest of season, all of playoffs, plus 40 regular season games next year. Plus a fine, plus probation, plus forfeiture of one complete season's wages.
Fights are OK. Attacks are not.
That's definitely the kind of action that should have been taken by the league.
He's to have a hearing at the beginning of next season to determine if any further suspension is warranted. He's essentially on probation off-ice. It'd be nice to see that extended to on-ice probation next year.
He's to have a hearing at the beginning of next season to determine if any further suspension is warranted. He's essentially on probation off-ice. It'd be nice to see that extended to on-ice probation next year.
My friend had a good suggestion this evening. She suggested that if Moore's injuries are serous and require him to be off ice for any duration in the next season(s) or permanently, then Bertuzzi should be put in the same situation and not allowed to play until Moore is able to.
It is a bad idea to determine one players punishment based entirely on the status of the player he injured.
Look at it from this perspective: You are the coach of Colorado. Vancouver is a division rival of yours, and a very good one at that. You can sit Steve Moore, who is really nothing more than a role player on the team, for a period of time that is really longer than necessary and by doing so keep one of the top forwards in the entire NHL from playing and competing against your team. What would you do?
This scenario is entirely likely and is the reason why punishment must be clear and decisive by the league. It's not up to Colorado to determine Bertuzzi's suspension length, which is in fact what you're suggesting.
I think the decision to make him apply for reinstatement and base their decision in part on Moore's recovery status was the perfect compromise. It partially takes into account how Moore is doing, but doesn't leave it solely up to Moore or Colorado to determine Bertuzzi's status.
Yeah, if that were the case, Matt Johnson wouldn't be playing in the NHL. His sucker punch on Jeff Beukeboom was almost identical to this (without the landing on him). Jeff's head hit the ice, and it basically ended his career. He had some wicked symptoms for a LONG time afterwards.
The victim's team can manipulate this too... remember when Dale Hunter hit Turgeon into the boards after he scored on them? Turgeon was gone for the rest of the playoffs, Hunter gets a 20 game suspension that started the following season... and by a PURE MIRACLE, Turgeon suddenly heals up after the sentence was handed down, and played in the next round of the playoffs.
The punishment was fine IMO. I'm sure if Moore's recovery doesn't go so well Bertuzzi will get another 20, 30 games, depending.
I have been a subscriber to NHL Center Ice for a while now, so I watch at least a game a night and often times parts of three and four games. I can't remember the last time I went more than a couple days without seeing a fight. A week without seeing a fight would be a friggin miracle.
That's odd. I've had NHL Center Ice for 3 years now. I religiously watch the Red Wings, and I catch as many Columbus, Pittsburgh, Toronto and Colorado games as I can. I don't see a fight very often for some teams, yet quite a bit with others.
The thing is, fighting isn't the problem, it's fighters. I can watch a Flyers, Leafs, Blues or Avalanche game and see a fight more often than when I watch a Wings, Senators, Lightning, Penguins, Blue Jackets, Kings or Oilers game.
The problem is a select few individuals that don't know any better than to drop their gloves or play dirty.
Guys like Brashear (PHI), Pronger (STL), Bertuzzi (VAN) and Worrell (COL) are goons that are always causing trouble. Pronger less now than he used to but he still hits high and dirty.
It's not something that every team does with any regularity whatsoever. But it is something a few individuals do. I mean my favorite team the Wings used to have the Probert/Kocur duo that would throw down nightly, so I definitely know what both sides are like.
Comments
Originally posted by Eugene
Why aren't there any fights in olympic ice hockey?
Sorry for jumping in late here, but, primarily, the lack of fighting in the Olympics (and the World Juniors and other tournaments) is the format: every game is important. Whether it's the round robin to achieve the medal round or the medal round's "lose and out" format, many teams don't wish to risk taking penalties--especially due to fighting. Giving up a power-play goal due to a "stupid" penalty (as opposed to holding or interference--that may be needed to prevent a goal or scoring chance) can be the difference in playing for gold or the bronze.
This is also why there's typically less fighting during the NHL playoffs. While it's a string of seven-game series, it doesn't take much to flip around momentum. A given team doesn't want to add any motivation to an underdog or risk a player suspension.
With the Olympics, obviously, there's an attitude of goodwill and sportsmanship (judges, steroids, and faked urine tests notwithstanding).
----
Oh, and
GO WINGS!!
Sorry, Moogs
Originally posted by Matsu
All that said. Suspension should be: rest of season, all of playoffs, plus 40 regular season games next year. Plus a fine, plus probation, plus forfeiture of one complete season's wages.
Fights are OK. Attacks are not.
That's definitely the kind of action that should have been taken by the league.
He's to have a hearing at the beginning of next season to determine if any further suspension is warranted. He's essentially on probation off-ice. It'd be nice to see that extended to on-ice probation next year.
Originally posted by Kickaha
Well, he got most of it, except the wages bit.
He's to have a hearing at the beginning of next season to determine if any further suspension is warranted. He's essentially on probation off-ice. It'd be nice to see that extended to on-ice probation next year.
My friend had a good suggestion this evening. She suggested that if Moore's injuries are serous and require him to be off ice for any duration in the next season(s) or permanently, then Bertuzzi should be put in the same situation and not allowed to play until Moore is able to.
Look at it from this perspective: You are the coach of Colorado. Vancouver is a division rival of yours, and a very good one at that. You can sit Steve Moore, who is really nothing more than a role player on the team, for a period of time that is really longer than necessary and by doing so keep one of the top forwards in the entire NHL from playing and competing against your team. What would you do?
This scenario is entirely likely and is the reason why punishment must be clear and decisive by the league. It's not up to Colorado to determine Bertuzzi's suspension length, which is in fact what you're suggesting.
I think the decision to make him apply for reinstatement and base their decision in part on Moore's recovery status was the perfect compromise. It partially takes into account how Moore is doing, but doesn't leave it solely up to Moore or Colorado to determine Bertuzzi's status.
The victim's team can manipulate this too... remember when Dale Hunter hit Turgeon into the boards after he scored on them? Turgeon was gone for the rest of the playoffs, Hunter gets a 20 game suspension that started the following season... and by a PURE MIRACLE, Turgeon suddenly heals up after the sentence was handed down, and played in the next round of the playoffs.
The punishment was fine IMO. I'm sure if Moore's recovery doesn't go so well Bertuzzi will get another 20, 30 games, depending.
Originally posted by Moogs
I have been a subscriber to NHL Center Ice for a while now, so I watch at least a game a night and often times parts of three and four games. I can't remember the last time I went more than a couple days without seeing a fight. A week without seeing a fight would be a friggin miracle.
That's odd. I've had NHL Center Ice for 3 years now. I religiously watch the Red Wings, and I catch as many Columbus, Pittsburgh, Toronto and Colorado games as I can. I don't see a fight very often for some teams, yet quite a bit with others.
The thing is, fighting isn't the problem, it's fighters. I can watch a Flyers, Leafs, Blues or Avalanche game and see a fight more often than when I watch a Wings, Senators, Lightning, Penguins, Blue Jackets, Kings or Oilers game.
The problem is a select few individuals that don't know any better than to drop their gloves or play dirty.
Guys like Brashear (PHI), Pronger (STL), Bertuzzi (VAN) and Worrell (COL) are goons that are always causing trouble. Pronger less now than he used to but he still hits high and dirty.
It's not something that every team does with any regularity whatsoever. But it is something a few individuals do. I mean my favorite team the Wings used to have the Probert/Kocur duo that would throw down nightly, so I definitely know what both sides are like.