The Spanish government, against the wishes of 90% of the Spanish people, supported the Bush and Blair regimes in their own cowardly act of (ongoing) international terrorism against the Iraqi people when indiscriminate bombing killed over ten thousand Iraqi innocents last year (casualty wise, thats fifty Madrid style incidents, or nearly four "9-11's"), all for the aim of private corporate gain for criminals close to the Bush White House. Yesterday's atrocity against the Spanish people is "international bad karma"...where the misdeeds of a group of rogue leaderships (Asnar, Berlusconi, Blair, Bush et al) have backfired on the blameless people who, in misplaced good faith, put them there. Who is next? The people of Rome, and London?
Perhaps this was the aim of the Bush administration: Their entire purpose is to put the fear of hell into us by (mis)informing us that there's a terrorist around every corner. The war on terrorism cannot survive without the raw materials to "legitimize" it...namely terrorists and terrorism. Without terrorists, Bush and company are purposeless, with nowhere to hang their hats.
"So now ETA is going to start to collaborate with Al Queda." That was pure speculation on my part...
To elaborate on my freind's trip a little bit more, from meeting many Basques (Basquians?) face to face, it just doesn't seem likly that they would cooperate with Muslim extremist. On the other hand, ETA may be more than a little desperate and willing to work with Al Queda as many of ETA's top dogs have been captured. My buddy didn't ask a lot of political questions while there for obvious reasons.
Just as an aside, MOST Basques don't hate Spaniards. I was watching some of the spanish speaking stations and they showed videos of the capital of the Basque region, Vitoria. Thousands of people protesting this cowardly act. Just like the rest of Spain. If ETA had anything to do with it, it will probably backfire on them as they might lose safe haven in Basque country. Maybe.
"So now ETA is going to start to collaborate with Al Queda." That was pure speculation on my part...
To elaborate on my freind's trip a little bit more, from meeting many Basques (Basquians?) face to face, it just doesn't seem likly that they would cooperate with Muslim extremist. On the other hand, ETA may be more than a little desperate and willing to work with Al Queda as many of ETA's top dogs have been captured. My buddy didn't ask a lot of political questions while there for obvious reasons.
Just as an aside, MOST Basques don't hate Spaniards. I was watching some of the spanish speaking stations and they showed videos of the capital of the Basque region, Vitoria. Thousands of people protesting this cowardly act. Just like the rest of Spain. If ETA had anything to do with it, it will probably backfire on them as they might lose safe haven in Basque country. Maybe.
You are right. If ETA commited this attack, it will be a political suicide for them even in the Basque countrie. Batasuna the ex political branch of ETA logically denied any implication in this story. But as you pointed out Hardhead, it prove nothing.
It's hard to believe that Al Quaeda has infiltrated ETA, they are too different (excepting terrorism behavioring of course).
Al Quaeda should have done this, even the spanish governement has becoming very cautious now.
Most european, including most spaniards wisht that ETA commited this crime, and not Al Quaeda :
" ETA is enought for us" , said one spaniard on an interview,"it will be a disaster if we had to face a new terrorist organisation, we could not anymore walk peacefully in our countrie) "
So much interrogations and despair.
As i wrote this, hundreds of thousands of people in Madrid ,and perhaps millions of spanish people are walking in silence in the great avenue of big cities to express their pain.
Extract from an e-mail to the London office of the al-Quds al-Arabi newspaper from The Brigade of Abu Hafs al-May:
Quote:
This is part of settling old accounts with Spain, the crusader, and America's ally in its war against Islam. Aznar, where is America? Who will protect you, Britain, Japan, Italy and others from us?
When we attacked the Italian troops in Nasiriyah and sent you and America's agents an ultimatum to withdraw from the anti-Islam alliance, you did not understand the message. Now we have made it clear and hope that this time you will understand."
We, at the Abu Hafs brigades, have not felt sad for the so-called civilians. Is it OK for you to kill our children, women, old people and youth in Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine and Kashmir? And is it forbidden to us to kill yours?
We announce the good news for the Muslims in the world that the strike of the black wind of death, the expected strike against America, is now at its final stage _ 90 per cent ready _ and it is coming soon.
Spain apparently still think it's ETA, although ETA have just denied it. The email from the Abu Hafs Brigade apparently came very soon after the atrocity, however, which isn't al-Qa'ida style. My feeling is that it's still the Islamicists, what with the simultaneous bombing, the scale, and the train station target, but I guess we'll find out soon.
Words of condolences ring somewhat hollow on an online forum. Man, my heart goes out to the victims and survivors. This was like 9/11 for Spain.
Whomever is responsible, may they suffer harsh justice, in whatever form it comes.
That being said, until the source problems (poverty, famine, political oppression of a population's rights and the GREED of multi-national corps) are nipped in the bud, religious fanatacism will be there to offer an offset. I know this is way over simplified. Nor do any of these factors justify at ANY time the taking of innocent lives.
Commenting on segovius, Hassan and Powerdoc's post's, it's kind of unfortunate but it seems like the current Spanish Government is trying to keep the blame on ETA for the election's sake. Even if evidence may prove otherwise...
Words of condolences ring somewhat hollow on an online forum. Man, my
snip
enting on segovius, Hassan and Powerdoc's post's, it's kind of unfortunate but it seems like the current Spanish Government is trying to keep the blame on ETA for the election's sake. Even if evidence may prove otherwise...
Like you said. Personally I'm sort keeping out of the Aznar thing though, but I still don't think it was ETA.
The thing I would hate to see Powerdoc would be Spainard persecution and retribution on all Basque people. Whether it turns out to be ETA or not... Hard to keep your cool as a nation when this kind of horror comes around.
Randycat, your suggestion ain't bad at all. Anyone willing to blow up trains full of civilians is a bit beyond "chilling out" unfortunatly.
I think a "dosed" population would certainly go a long way toward keeping people from ever getting that far out of whack. These sort of radicals seem to get far too focused on some thing, and the absence of any other avenues of diversion or gratification (longterm, or even immediate) just feed them further into focusing on the thing. The focus never ends for the person until they destroy the thing or the thing destroys them. Naturally, I'm only entertaining this notion half in levity, but also half in a genuinely inquisitive "what if" mode.
The spanish gov prematuraly said that ETA was the only suspect. Now, officialy there is two suspect. Spanish gov will prefer ETA, the socialists the contrary. ETA canno't assume this act (political suicide), and Al Quaeda tend to revendicate bombing months after via video tapes.
i have hear some details. One bag did not explode. They found the cell phone who was supposed to make explose the bag. They discover the last phone call made, and see who emitted it.
They caught three morocco people and two spanish people of india origin.
One of this people is directly linked to an extremist islam org
The info about the 5 people arrested : 3 morrocan and 2 native people from india was avalaible yesterday in the french media, but not in the spanish one. In fact police did gave this info, they where pissed that the governement hide all this infos. Policemen wanted to appear serious, and not jokes who follow blindly only one target.
People of Spain where furious and make a huge street pressure : the spanish gov give this info.
There is also the discoverging of a videotape, where this bombing is claimed to be initiated by Al Quaeda (retaliation of spain to have participate in the Iraqi war)
If I were a citizen of Spain I would have questions. If the Spanish government suppressed the information about the real suspects in an attempt to close a trap around the ones who got away I would understand and agree with the logic. If it were done solely for political gain then that's galling.
The timing of this attack in conjunction with the Spanish elections is frightening to me because I am now expecting a similar incident to perpetrated against us to time with OUR upcoming elections.
This is seriously scary.
There's no telling where they could strike or the form it could take.
The info about the 5 people arrested : 3 morrocan and 2 native people from india was avalaible yesterday in the french media, but not in the spanish one. In fact police did gave this info, they where pissed that the governement hide all this infos. Policemen wanted to appear serious, and not jokes who follow blindly only one target.
People of Spain where furious and make a huge street pressure : the spanish gov give this info.
There is also the discoverging of a videotape, where this bombing is claimed to be initiated by Al Quaeda (retaliation of spain to have participate in the Iraqi war)
So Al Quada won a round.
Al Quada is punishing the spanish government for its role in he Iraq war by slaughtering 200 of its citizent. The government tries to deny the connection, pissing of the population and thus risking to lose the election today.
Comments
Perhaps this was the aim of the Bush administration: Their entire purpose is to put the fear of hell into us by (mis)informing us that there's a terrorist around every corner. The war on terrorism cannot survive without the raw materials to "legitimize" it...namely terrorists and terrorism. Without terrorists, Bush and company are purposeless, with nowhere to hang their hats.
To elaborate on my freind's trip a little bit more, from meeting many Basques (Basquians?) face to face, it just doesn't seem likly that they would cooperate with Muslim extremist. On the other hand, ETA may be more than a little desperate and willing to work with Al Queda as many of ETA's top dogs have been captured. My buddy didn't ask a lot of political questions while there for obvious reasons.
Just as an aside, MOST Basques don't hate Spaniards. I was watching some of the spanish speaking stations and they showed videos of the capital of the Basque region, Vitoria. Thousands of people protesting this cowardly act. Just like the rest of Spain. If ETA had anything to do with it, it will probably backfire on them as they might lose safe haven in Basque country. Maybe.
Originally posted by hardhead
"So now ETA is going to start to collaborate with Al Queda." That was pure speculation on my part...
To elaborate on my freind's trip a little bit more, from meeting many Basques (Basquians?) face to face, it just doesn't seem likly that they would cooperate with Muslim extremist. On the other hand, ETA may be more than a little desperate and willing to work with Al Queda as many of ETA's top dogs have been captured. My buddy didn't ask a lot of political questions while there for obvious reasons.
Just as an aside, MOST Basques don't hate Spaniards. I was watching some of the spanish speaking stations and they showed videos of the capital of the Basque region, Vitoria. Thousands of people protesting this cowardly act. Just like the rest of Spain. If ETA had anything to do with it, it will probably backfire on them as they might lose safe haven in Basque country. Maybe.
You are right. If ETA commited this attack, it will be a political suicide for them even in the Basque countrie. Batasuna the ex political branch of ETA logically denied any implication in this story. But as you pointed out Hardhead, it prove nothing.
It's hard to believe that Al Quaeda has infiltrated ETA, they are too different (excepting terrorism behavioring of course).
Al Quaeda should have done this, even the spanish governement has becoming very cautious now.
Most european, including most spaniards wisht that ETA commited this crime, and not Al Quaeda :
" ETA is enought for us" , said one spaniard on an interview,"it will be a disaster if we had to face a new terrorist organisation, we could not anymore walk peacefully in our countrie) "
So much interrogations and despair.
As i wrote this, hundreds of thousands of people in Madrid ,and perhaps millions of spanish people are walking in silence in the great avenue of big cities to express their pain.
This is part of settling old accounts with Spain, the crusader, and America's ally in its war against Islam. Aznar, where is America? Who will protect you, Britain, Japan, Italy and others from us?
When we attacked the Italian troops in Nasiriyah and sent you and America's agents an ultimatum to withdraw from the anti-Islam alliance, you did not understand the message. Now we have made it clear and hope that this time you will understand."
We, at the Abu Hafs brigades, have not felt sad for the so-called civilians. Is it OK for you to kill our children, women, old people and youth in Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine and Kashmir? And is it forbidden to us to kill yours?
We announce the good news for the Muslims in the world that the strike of the black wind of death, the expected strike against America, is now at its final stage _ 90 per cent ready _ and it is coming soon.
Spain apparently still think it's ETA, although ETA have just denied it. The email from the Abu Hafs Brigade apparently came very soon after the atrocity, however, which isn't al-Qa'ida style. My feeling is that it's still the Islamicists, what with the simultaneous bombing, the scale, and the train station target, but I guess we'll find out soon.
Originally posted by New
(btw, A friend just told me that yesterday the 11th of march (or 3/11), was exactly two and a half years after 9/11, and thats exactly 911 days.
Yes
Makes a person ask some questions.
No matter who did this it is absolute evil.
Fellowship
Whomever is responsible, may they suffer harsh justice, in whatever form it comes.
That being said, until the source problems (poverty, famine, political oppression of a population's rights and the GREED of multi-national corps) are nipped in the bud, religious fanatacism will be there to offer an offset. I know this is way over simplified. Nor do any of these factors justify at ANY time the taking of innocent lives.
Commenting on segovius, Hassan and Powerdoc's post's, it's kind of unfortunate but it seems like the current Spanish Government is trying to keep the blame on ETA for the election's sake. Even if evidence may prove otherwise...
Originally posted by hardhead
Words of condolences ring somewhat hollow on an online forum. Man, my
snip
enting on segovius, Hassan and Powerdoc's post's, it's kind of unfortunate but it seems like the current Spanish Government is trying to keep the blame on ETA for the election's sake. Even if evidence may prove otherwise...
Like you said. Personally I'm sort keeping out of the Aznar thing though, but I still don't think it was ETA.
it's a way to destabilise spain. The color of the terrorist should not change an election (in one way or another).
Randycat, your suggestion ain't bad at all. Anyone willing to blow up trains full of civilians is a bit beyond "chilling out" unfortunatly.
The spanish gov prematuraly said that ETA was the only suspect. Now, officialy there is two suspect. Spanish gov will prefer ETA, the socialists the contrary. ETA canno't assume this act (political suicide), and Al Quaeda tend to revendicate bombing months after via video tapes.
Originally posted by segovius
Just hearing on French news that Spanish police have arrested four Arabs - looks like the al-Q thing is more likely.
Just ear the same info on France info radio. 5 arabs suspects have been arrested by spanish police (no more no less)
I feart that will hear reliables info only after the legislatives elections.
They caught three morocco people and two spanish people of india origin.
One of this people is directly linked to an extremist islam org
The info about the 5 people arrested : 3 morrocan and 2 native people from india was avalaible yesterday in the french media, but not in the spanish one. In fact police did gave this info, they where pissed that the governement hide all this infos. Policemen wanted to appear serious, and not jokes who follow blindly only one target.
People of Spain where furious and make a huge street pressure : the spanish gov give this info.
There is also the discoverging of a videotape, where this bombing is claimed to be initiated by Al Quaeda (retaliation of spain to have participate in the Iraqi war)
The timing of this attack in conjunction with the Spanish elections is frightening to me because I am now expecting a similar incident to perpetrated against us to time with OUR upcoming elections.
This is seriously scary.
There's no telling where they could strike or the form it could take.
Originally posted by Powerdoc
People in spain are furious.
The info about the 5 people arrested : 3 morrocan and 2 native people from india was avalaible yesterday in the french media, but not in the spanish one. In fact police did gave this info, they where pissed that the governement hide all this infos. Policemen wanted to appear serious, and not jokes who follow blindly only one target.
People of Spain where furious and make a huge street pressure : the spanish gov give this info.
There is also the discoverging of a videotape, where this bombing is claimed to be initiated by Al Quaeda (retaliation of spain to have participate in the Iraqi war)
So Al Quada won a round.
Al Quada is punishing the spanish government for its role in he Iraq war by slaughtering 200 of its citizent. The government tries to deny the connection, pissing of the population and thus risking to lose the election today.
BBC LINK
In June that is...
Tony Blair is officialy happy, but in fact is in troubles : less support in Europe for the iraq war
Same apply for Poland, now for the european constitution project she is alone.