I like you. You take criticism well and in the spirit it was intended (positive, albeit blunt). I just rattle stuff off but don't usually have time to or care to spare one's feelings.
It's all part of the creative process.
BTW feel free to stick to your guns and say I'm wrong. It's your baby.
Didn't the PowerBook G3 series 'books all have a logo on front -and- back?
Yes. But not since Ive.
I just don't think they will do that again. (I should have made that clearer.)
For various reasons. One, design principles as far as keeping branding fresh by not overusing it. Two, people don't like too much branding in their face - just enough. Three, Apple (the brand identity) is not important in all contexts, such as the visible area while using a laptop, yet the name of the product is - seeing iBook or PowerBook or iMac is useful at that angle for many reasons.
Tasteful, less-is-more rules Apple's design now, with Ive.
I like you. You take criticism well and in the spirit it was intended (positive, albeit blunt). I just rattle stuff off but don't usually have time to or care to spare one's feelings.
It's all part of the creative process.
BTW feel free to stick to your guns and say I'm wrong. It's your baby.
Your points are well made and denounce knowledge in the product design department :-)
Also I see cynicism in the forums as just pre-teen (or teen or post-teen) behaviour. ;-)
I'm just a Electr. Engineer who admires Apple products and the things you can do with one with 0 learning. I think that's what they "mean" too.
Regarding these mock-ups, my point, as stated before, is that I see Ibook going into the "coolness" territory the Powerbook currently dominate. And I see this because
1 Kids aim for cool . Always have, always will.
2 There is no more reason to embellish the Powerbook. It now has SERIOUS CPU coming to its family and I see the whole coolness factor pointed towards the inside. In this line of thought, I see the Powerbook being extremely powerful and taking to the dark colours (graphite or black ) or even a carbon fibre look :-)
So regarding the logo positioning I would say " Yes, there too many there, but..."
I think the BIG logo on the back is going away. It's been around for a lot of time and it will make the new stuff look old. (although I like them , personally)
Curiously the small logo on the side is the one I like most. I think it my attempt to create a new "Apple logo position" replacing the the BIG one.
And I also agree with you that the front colour should be more neutral. But on the other way I also think that I said the same thing when I saw OS X.
"Wow, so much eye-candy you can hardly see the what you're doing !!".
The mock-ups have lot of inconsistencies and I tried to experiment, in some cases, with all the options in each one.
That color's on the outside. The parts of the computer facing the user will always be neutral, with maybe small accents of color. This is true of all iBooks and iMacs, no matter what the color.
Some suggestions:
1) Kids are all about cool, but kids aren't the major customers for iBooks. Schools and school districts are. The promise of a laptop that can be tossed into bookcases and dropped on floors without flying apart is very attractive to the parents and administrators paying to put them in the hands of their children.
2) Curves have more structural integrity than straight lines, all else being equal. Hard corners hardly have any structural integrity at all. The eMate and the original iBook were nearly indestructible. The "chiclet" is much easier to break, and your models look like they could be snapped in two.
3) Right now, the iBook has the speakers positioned to bounce sound off the monitor. This is about as cool and unobtrusive as it gets.
4) I don't think Apple will bother with two buttons, especially on a product aimed at K-12. If they ever go multibuttton, they'll follow their UNIX heritage and ship three buttons. But I doubt they'll bother; those who want them to use X11 apps can buy them for $20. One button is entirely sufficient to get around the OS, and all the applications. It's not enough for some games, but that's probably an advantage as far as the legislators and superintendents approving the purchase are concerned.
5) Why are only the dreariest, most depressing non-colors considered "professional", anyway? Does this explain why Dell is so popular in business? Do we want Macs that look like Dells?
6) Don't forget that the older people looking for laptops will want a larger screen - 14" at minimum, or 15". That's why there are two types of iBook. Physical size here is more important than resolution - in fact, high resolution is actually bad, because older people don't generally have very good eyesight.
You know what I was imagining for a new, redesigned iBook? Take the 14" widescreen I submitted here months ago (to nearly unanimous acclaim and acceptance ) and take visual design cues from the iPod mini and a smattering of G5.
Take an iPod mini, lay it down and facing you lengthwise. Take a Ginsu knife and split it apart, horizontally, at the halfway point, having the back half circle create the display/body pivot point. A joint, a roller joint similar to the ones above.
It would be rounded in front and back, but square on the sides (where the ports reside on the left and the optical drive on the right.
I'd almost go so far as to say...offer it in colors, like the iPod mini.
Where the G5 influence comes in would be to have any sort of venting (or speaker grille holes) be round, like the G5 cheese grater look. I think that's a nice look...better than slits or grates. Also, the iPod mini and G5 both have beautiful shapes, with the aluminum gracefully folding back and - in the case of the G5 - in on itself. Just a "touchable", seamless swoop of surface that doesn't seem to have a harsh, definite "start and stop" point.
I'll try to doodle up something later on because upon re-reading all the above, it barely makes sense to ME...and I wrote it!
But I see it in my head, crystal clear...
Simply have one iBook that perfectly splits the difference between the 12" and 14": not much taller or bulkier than the 12" (due to its widescreenosity) but maybe a little more pallette (and movie) friendly than the current 4:3 14". Would a 14" widescreen at, say, 768 tall x whatever wide be acceptable to most? I'm not sure on things like that. I'd dig it, but I'm not 87 years old...
I think 768 vertical resolution for a consumer machine is nice. I DO NOT want to get into infamous SquinTronic? territory of nearly useless high resolutions. Not for an iBook and its intended, well-documented target crowd.
The thing would be pretty much the dimensions, give or take 1/8", of a legal size sheet of paper, so more rectangular than the current square-ish shape.
Basically, take an iPod mini and scale it up 400%.
Pack it with a snappy G4 in the mid-1GHz range, 32MB graphics, combo drives, the usual I/O like what's on the current iBook (USB 2, AirPort Extreme, modem, Ethernet and perhaps Bluetooth onboard, out of the box?). Might sell more wireless mice and keyboards that way?
Oh, and make an illuminated keyboard a $69 optional add-on. These things are really the cat's meow! Every keyboard Apple makes (PowerBook, iBook and standalone wired and wireless models) should have this feature! It really comes in handy!
I meant the frame around the image on the screen itself will be something neutral. And Apple logos will always likely be outside, not inside the 'Book.
Of course things could change but it wouldn't be out of a natural evolution of Ive's design style, it'd be more of an intentional effort to break from it (and why would they ever need that?)
Actually that's one way I imagined the Apple logo "working" in a non-centered context - it has to be outrageously different to justify the change. (Whereas the original one where it was merely an inch too high wasn't "enough")
But you are venturing into "What would Nike do" territory, and, arguably that is an interesting way to approach it for the non-Pro products.
Actually that's one way I imagined the Apple logo "working" in a non-centered context - it has to be outrageously different to justify the change. (Whereas the original one where it was merely an inch too high wasn't "enough")
But you are venturing into "What would Nike do" territory, and, arguably that is an interesting way to approach it for the non-Pro products.
Well...now I know what you meant with a "neutral front facing user view". ;-)
I like the "cornered" Apple logo.
The front.... hmmm...nahhhh !
But it's hard to give it some color without obscuring the OS look.
I guess Apple doesn't want any eye candy to hit the user but the OS itself.
Here's all the crap I was trying to put into words above. Personally, I dig it and would proudly own one, in white, silver OR green.
A current iBook, an iPod mini and a couple of pieces of the G5 and put them into a blender...
[EDIT: Ha, I just realized it has no speakers...I forgot! Oh well, do this - until I can add them later: imagine PowerBook-like speaker placement, to the left and right of the keyboard. G5-inspired holes, not too big though).
Ha, thanks. As for the name, I wasn't thinking about it, really. I suppose it would go where the current one is, on the display panel, below the screen? There's room. AND, I think it could stand a be a tad smaller than the current one anyway (more like the PowerBook?).
Here's all the crap I was trying to put into words above. Personally, I dig it and would proudly own one, in white, silver OR green.
A current iBook, an iPod mini and a couple of pieces of the G5 and put them into a blender...
Now that's a very likely apple design... Simple. Easy to use. Follows other product family trends. And it just looks cool.
One thing wrong with it. I don't think iBooks will ever have 'cinema' or elongated displays. (Maybe ADC'04 will prove me wrong...) But ibooks have always had square displays, and PowerBooks have always been more 'endowed' in that area. (Whoo.. Should have chosen a better word.. Oh well..)
Comments
Generally nice.
Apple will never have the color on the lid frame the image. It will always be a neutral.
The left inputs are out of scale. The card slot is micro. Or is that a hitachi disk slot?
Apple logo on back will always be centered, you have it too high.
They'll -never- have an apple logo on front -and- back and I guarantee it'll never appear as endcaps on the hinges.
They don't whore-out their logo like that. One is tasteful.
Originally posted by johnq
They'll -never- have an apple logo on front -and- back ....
Didn't the PowerBook G3 series 'books all have a logo on front -and- back?
Originally posted by johnq
On the designs:
Generally nice.
Apple will never have the color on the lid frame the image. It will always be a neutral.
The left inputs are out of scale. The card slot is micro. Or is that a hitachi disk slot?
Apple logo on back will always be centered, you have it too high.
They'll -never- have an apple logo on front -and- back and I guarantee it'll never appear as endcaps on the hinges.
They don't whore-out their logo like that. One is tasteful.
Gotcha. Thanks for the directions.
Originally posted by nsousansousa
Gotcha. Thanks for the directions.
I like you.
It's all part of the creative process.
BTW feel free to stick to your guns and say I'm wrong. It's your baby.
Originally posted by Guartho
Didn't the PowerBook G3 series 'books all have a logo on front -and- back?
Yes. But not since Ive.
I just don't think they will do that again. (I should have made that clearer.)
For various reasons. One, design principles as far as keeping branding fresh by not overusing it. Two, people don't like too much branding in their face - just enough. Three, Apple (the brand identity) is not important in all contexts, such as the visible area while using a laptop, yet the name of the product is - seeing iBook or PowerBook or iMac is useful at that angle for many reasons.
Tasteful, less-is-more rules Apple's design now, with Ive.
Originally posted by johnq
I like you.
It's all part of the creative process.
BTW feel free to stick to your guns and say I'm wrong. It's your baby.
Your points are well made and denounce knowledge in the product design department :-)
Also I see cynicism in the forums as just pre-teen (or teen or post-teen) behaviour. ;-)
I'm just a Electr. Engineer who admires Apple products and the things you can do with one with 0 learning. I think that's what they "mean" too.
Regarding these mock-ups, my point, as stated before, is that I see Ibook going into the "coolness" territory the Powerbook currently dominate. And I see this because
1 Kids aim for cool . Always have, always will.
2 There is no more reason to embellish the Powerbook. It now has SERIOUS CPU coming to its family and I see the whole coolness factor pointed towards the inside. In this line of thought, I see the Powerbook being extremely powerful and taking to the dark colours (graphite or black ) or even a carbon fibre look :-)
See the outrageous MaxiBook
So regarding the logo positioning I would say " Yes, there too many there, but..."
I think the BIG logo on the back is going away. It's been around for a lot of time and it will make the new stuff look old. (although I like them , personally)
Curiously the small logo on the side is the one I like most. I think it my attempt to create a new "Apple logo position" replacing the the BIG one.
And I also agree with you that the front colour should be more neutral. But on the other way I also think that I said the same thing when I saw OS X.
"Wow, so much eye-candy you can hardly see the what you're doing !!".
The mock-ups have lot of inconsistencies and I tried to experiment, in some cases, with all the options in each one.
Regards.
Nuno.
Originally posted by johnq
Apple will never have the color on the lid frame the image. It will always be a neutral.
They'll -never- have an apple logo on front -and- back
They don't whore-out their logo like that. One is tasteful.
*cough*
*cough*
Some suggestions:
1) Kids are all about cool, but kids aren't the major customers for iBooks. Schools and school districts are. The promise of a laptop that can be tossed into bookcases and dropped on floors without flying apart is very attractive to the parents and administrators paying to put them in the hands of their children.
2) Curves have more structural integrity than straight lines, all else being equal. Hard corners hardly have any structural integrity at all. The eMate and the original iBook were nearly indestructible. The "chiclet" is much easier to break, and your models look like they could be snapped in two.
3) Right now, the iBook has the speakers positioned to bounce sound off the monitor. This is about as cool and unobtrusive as it gets.
4) I don't think Apple will bother with two buttons, especially on a product aimed at K-12. If they ever go multibuttton, they'll follow their UNIX heritage and ship three buttons. But I doubt they'll bother; those who want them to use X11 apps can buy them for $20. One button is entirely sufficient to get around the OS, and all the applications. It's not enough for some games, but that's probably an advantage as far as the legislators and superintendents approving the purchase are concerned.
5) Why are only the dreariest, most depressing non-colors considered "professional", anyway? Does this explain why Dell is so popular in business? Do we want Macs that look like Dells?
6) Don't forget that the older people looking for laptops will want a larger screen - 14" at minimum, or 15". That's why there are two types of iBook. Physical size here is more important than resolution - in fact, high resolution is actually bad, because older people don't generally have very good eyesight.
Take an iPod mini, lay it down and facing you lengthwise. Take a Ginsu knife and split it apart, horizontally, at the halfway point, having the back half circle create the display/body pivot point. A joint, a roller joint similar to the ones above.
It would be rounded in front and back, but square on the sides (where the ports reside on the left and the optical drive on the right.
I'd almost go so far as to say...offer it in colors, like the iPod mini.
Where the G5 influence comes in would be to have any sort of venting (or speaker grille holes) be round, like the G5 cheese grater look. I think that's a nice look...better than slits or grates. Also, the iPod mini and G5 both have beautiful shapes, with the aluminum gracefully folding back and - in the case of the G5 - in on itself. Just a "touchable", seamless swoop of surface that doesn't seem to have a harsh, definite "start and stop" point.
I'll try to doodle up something later on because upon re-reading all the above, it barely makes sense to ME...and I wrote it!
But I see it in my head, crystal clear...
Simply have one iBook that perfectly splits the difference between the 12" and 14": not much taller or bulkier than the 12" (due to its widescreenosity) but maybe a little more pallette (and movie) friendly than the current 4:3 14". Would a 14" widescreen at, say, 768 tall x whatever wide be acceptable to most? I'm not sure on things like that. I'd dig it, but I'm not 87 years old...
I think 768 vertical resolution for a consumer machine is nice. I DO NOT want to get into infamous SquinTronic? territory of nearly useless high resolutions. Not for an iBook and its intended, well-documented target crowd.
The thing would be pretty much the dimensions, give or take 1/8", of a legal size sheet of paper, so more rectangular than the current square-ish shape.
Basically, take an iPod mini and scale it up 400%.
Pack it with a snappy G4 in the mid-1GHz range, 32MB graphics, combo drives, the usual I/O like what's on the current iBook (USB 2, AirPort Extreme, modem, Ethernet and perhaps Bluetooth onboard, out of the box?). Might sell more wireless mice and keyboards that way?
Oh, and make an illuminated keyboard a $69 optional add-on. These things are really the cat's meow! Every keyboard Apple makes (PowerBook, iBook and standalone wired and wireless models) should have this feature! It really comes in handy!
www.appele.com
Some of the designs are "out there" but he/she is at least pushing the envelope.
Originally posted by satchmo
While I applaud your efforts and your passion, I feel compelled to point you to another Apple wannabe industrial designer.
www.appele.com
Some of the designs are "out there" but he/she is at least pushing the envelope.
That site is awsome. I know it for a while now and I love the author imagination.
Here is a variation on a theme... The speakers are gone up to near the screen.
Yeah, what Amorph said.
I meant the frame around the image on the screen itself will be something neutral. And Apple logos will always likely be outside, not inside the 'Book.
Of course things could change but it wouldn't be out of a natural evolution of Ive's design style, it'd be more of an intentional effort to break from it (and why would they ever need that?)
But you are venturing into "What would Nike do" territory, and, arguably that is an interesting way to approach it for the non-Pro products.
Originally posted by johnq
Actually that's one way I imagined the Apple logo "working" in a non-centered context - it has to be outrageously different to justify the change. (Whereas the original one where it was merely an inch too high wasn't "enough")
But you are venturing into "What would Nike do" territory, and, arguably that is an interesting way to approach it for the non-Pro products.
Well...now I know what you meant with a "neutral front facing user view". ;-)
I like the "cornered" Apple logo.
The front.... hmmm...nahhhh !
But it's hard to give it some color without obscuring the OS look.
I guess Apple doesn't want any eye candy to hit the user but the OS itself.
How about this ?
A current iBook, an iPod mini and a couple of pieces of the G5 and put them into a blender...
[EDIT: Ha, I just realized it has no speakers...I forgot! Oh well, do this - until I can add them later: imagine PowerBook-like speaker placement, to the left and right of the keyboard. G5-inspired holes, not too big though).
Originally posted by pscates
Here's all the crap I was trying to put into words above. Personally, I dig it and would proudly own one, in white, silver OR green.
A current iBook, an iPod mini and a couple of pieces of the G5 and put them into a blender...
Hell yeah, that's perfect. [furiously affirmative nodding smiley here]
But where does the name go?
Originally posted by pscates
Here's all the crap I was trying to put into words above. Personally, I dig it and would proudly own one, in white, silver OR green.
A current iBook, an iPod mini and a couple of pieces of the G5 and put them into a blender...
I like it, too. :-)
Good idea. Can I copy that ?
Originally posted by pscates
Here's all the crap I was trying to put into words above. Personally, I dig it and would proudly own one, in white, silver OR green.
A current iBook, an iPod mini and a couple of pieces of the G5 and put them into a blender...
Now that's a very likely apple design... Simple. Easy to use. Follows other product family trends. And it just looks cool.
One thing wrong with it. I don't think iBooks will ever have 'cinema' or elongated displays. (Maybe ADC'04 will prove me wrong...) But ibooks have always had square displays, and PowerBooks have always been more 'endowed' in that area. (Whoo.. Should have chosen a better word.. Oh well..)
Jimzip