1. Apple said they will release it. Due to government regulations, you cannot announce products unless you really menan to release them.
---------------------
Nonsense. What you're not allowed to do is sell products you don't mean to release.
Haha. If they don't release 3 Ghz PowerMacs, we could just get some SEC lawyers to force IBM to make them and then Apple to put them together and sell them.
It's been a long wait but man dual 3Ghz Powermacs will rock my world. I'm already amazed at how decent apps like FCP and Motion run on a Dual 2ghz.
They will rock your world even more if they are significantly faster than what would be released with a 970xx running at 3GHz. If significant improvements have been made to the processor, we could see greater performance increase than everyones been hoping for. Maybe I'm overlly optimistic but I suspect that Apple is going to make a run for home and not look back.
Quote:
The Opteron is at 2.4 this summer so I know the 970 should be there as well. Above that it makes sense to have something new.
The opteron has little to do with where the next PPC will go. It is a completely different processor, the clock rate is only loosely tied to the process used to build the processor.
Quote:
Plus the rumor was that the POWER5 derivative was designed in simulataneous development. That would lead us to late summer/fall shipment.
I'm starting to fell the same way. It isn't just the PowerMac but the iMac or what ever replaces it that have me looking forward to WWDC. The massive delay with the iMac strikes me as being the best sign out there that WWDC will be HOT. I do believe though that they will try to ship as soon as possible after release. Apples so far behind in the market that they need to do something to start to move hardware.
Quote:
Man I can't wait for WWDC. There's is going to be some COOL shite. I can feel it. [/B]
The beans are not mine to spill. I am just saying if you think about it too much, it will not be good for you. Why not show some patience and see what will happen!
Truthfully we will see the next Rev of G5's. Apple did not intend the G5 to stay in the PowerMac. There is something better in the wing. The xServer will move to it as well. The 970fx is merely Apple's break into the 64bit server market. What you will see next will blow the socks off of even Intel's most ambitious project. Think speed and then double it!
Nonsense. What you're not allowed to do is sell products you don't mean to release.
Ahh but for a company like Apple, the stock price is directly linked with rumors and news. If there is a rumor of a 3Ghz G5, then the stock goes up. If they do not come through on their promise, then the stock will go down. Either way it is a way to manipulate the price of the stock. I dont think the SEC takes too kindly to that...
Once again I'd like to temper some of the exhuberance here with just a dose of pragmaticism... 8)
If Apple had released a refresh early on this year I would believe they'd reach 3 Ghz by the end of summer. But now, having to go from 2 to 3 Ghz in a single jump... I highly doubt it.
Time to put away some of those lofty predictions and start thinking like a major computer company. If Apple thinks they can milk a ~2.5 Ghz part (which is already a significant improvement and will still be very competitive) they'll do it. This gives Apple some breathing room as clearly CPUs are getting tougher and tougher to produce. And they will want this breathing room...
Steve will take a little flack, they'll spin-doctor it nicely, all the while knowing it will be soon forgotten.
Once again I'd like to temper some of the exhuberance here with just a dose of pragmaticism... 8)
If Apple had released a refresh early on this year I would believe they'd reach 3 Ghz by the end of summer. But now, having to go from 2 to 3 Ghz in a single jump... I highly doubt it.
Time to put away some of those lofty predictions and start thinking like a major computer company. If Apple thinks they can milk a ~2.5 Ghz part (which is already a significant improvement and will still be very competitive) they'll do it. This gives Apple some breathing room as clearly CPUs are getting tougher and tougher to produce. And they will want this breathing room...
Steve will take a little flack, they'll spin-doctor it nicely, all the while knowing it will be soon forgotten.
Just my 2 bits...
C.
You can keep talking out your @ss all you want nobody's listening with breath like that.
You may think a 2.5 GHz PowerMac is "very competitive", but those of us who did not buy the 2.0, and most others who did buy it do not think that it's competitive enough. It's stupid reasoning like yours is why Apple is not selling more PowerMacs, and they better know it. because If they don't they are going to find that out the hard way that 2.5GHz is going to drown them. I hope they don't get to comfortable with the sales figures that they would be expecting from this "very competitive" PowerMac at 2.5GHz, because they will come in way under their projected sales graph, and loose a lot of Mac users with BS like that.
So you, and your butt breath can stay at 2.5GHz, and while you, your 2.5GHz reasoning, and Apple loose millions, and return Mac buyers along the way you may want to consider actually creating a machine that is competitive sometime in the future, and maybe a lot of people would consider buying one?
I'm lookin' at it from the perspective that 3Ghz is obtainable and will ship this year late summer.
However I think it will be no less than 3499. It only makes sense from a business perspective to profit where you can. High End computers have the most margin. The demand for the Dual 3Ghz would be high enough to sell every chip IBM could crank out. There are professionals out there that need every drop of speed you can give them. If they have to pay $4000 for it so be it because they are probably financing and need the computer to last as long as possible.
Thus I think we should see 2Ghz/2.2Dual/2.5Dual/3Dual
Truthfully we will see the next Rev of G5's. Apple did not intend the G5 to stay in the PowerMac. There is something better in the wing. The xServer will move to it as well. The 970fx is merely Apple's break into the 64bit server market. What you will see next will blow the socks off of even Intel's most ambitious project. Think speed and then double it!
If this is even remotely close to where Apple is headed, then the investments made on all the High end "Processor Intensive" applications starts to really make sense.
haha, onlooker is getting a bit testy with all this talk of not reaching 3 Ghz.
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
I'm lookin' at it from the perspective that 3Ghz is obtainable and will ship this year late summer.
However I think it will be no less than 3499. It only makes sense from a business perspective to profit where you can. High End computers have the most margin. The demand for the Dual 3Ghz would be high enough to sell every chip IBM could crank out. There are professionals out there that need every drop of speed you can give them. If they have to pay $4000 for it so be it because they are probably financing and need the computer to last as long as possible.
Thus I think we should see 2Ghz/2.2Dual/2.5Dual/3Dual
How about this: the lower end machines, let's say the 970fx ones, up to 2.5 Ghz or whatever it is, are immediately shipping. They also announce a 975 (or whatever it's called - didn't someone just make up that number?) at 3 Ghz, shipping in several months, so Jobs doesn't lose face too badly.
You can keep talking out your @ss all you want nobody's listening with breath like that.
Keep talkin' like that and you're gonna hurt my feelings... I think someone's setting themselves up for some disappointment.
Quote:
You may think a 2.5 GHz PowerMac is "very competitive", but those of us who did not buy the 2.0, and most others who did buy it do not think that it's competitive enough.
O-kay... JFYI, performance-wise, the dual 2.0 is right in there with the rest of Intel's and AMD offerings. A dual 2.5 would allow them to remain at a competitive performance level for the remainder of the year.
Quote:
It's stupid reasoning like yours is why Apple is not selling more PowerMacs, and they better know it.
I'm going to clue you into a little secret Onlooker - the reason why Apple doesn't sell more Powermacs has little to do with the processor speed.
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison:
I'm lookin' at it from the perspective that 3Ghz is obtainable and will ship this year late summer.
I'm hoping you're right and some miracle occurs and we do see them by the end of summer. But the way the year has gone so far - I really believe the chances of that are slim at best.
What I'd really like is this place to not degenerate into months long whine-fest if Apple doesn't live up to these lofty expectations...
Sorry I blew up you Concord, I wasn't really blowing up on you just what you said, but I'm telling you.
#1) That is why Apple is not selling more PowerMacs.
#2) The 2.0GHz is not on par with PC's. (which relates to #1 in many ways)
And #3) I'm not setting myself up for disappointment. I have already configured another computer if I'm not happy with what Apple is offering this year, and so have a lot of my friends.
I configured it well enough to where no matter what I'll at least have the best 3D card made AFAIAC. And knowing that alone will keep all disappointment off my back for a long time. Plus there is a lot of cool stuff on the PC side. Sh*t my case alone is almost worth switching.
I just think you and Apple aren't getting it If that is actually what Apple thinks. But if your just saying that because you think Apple just doesn't have the processors because IBM can not supply them. That I can understand, and then would agree, but if Apple is thinking 2.5GHz is good enough when intel is at 4GHz XEONs I just don't agree. Nobody wants to buy a computer from a company that can not keep up even if the computer they buy isn't the fastest one from that company. As long as that company's computer is keeping up with the competition they will see that as a sign of a satisfactory purchase.
That's a fact. Especially in computing. More so than anywhere.
#1) That is why Apple is not selling more PowerMacs.
Oh, if it were only that easy... \
Unfortunately the real reason can be summed up in just 2 letters - P and C, and the increasing ubiquity thereof. The simple fact of the matter is that the overwhelming majority of people simply don't give a rats a$$ about Macs.
Oh, they'll see a sales spike in the quarter they release their refreshed machines, but whether that refresh is 2.5 or 3.0 will make little (but some) difference on sales overall. And you can bet the following quarter sales will just peter out again - as always. And realize that there's only a small segment of users who know, care and can afford it anyway. This is something you can bet Apple is very aware of and why I believe they will give themselves some breathing room to refresh a little more regularly and not just have 1 good PM sales quarter out of every 4.
Quote:
#2) The 2.0GHz is not on par with PC's. (which relates to #1 in many ways)
In what way? Most of the benchmarks I've seen (that tax the processor) seem to suggest otherwise. You can't fault Macs in gaming because they don't have DirectX (OpenGL is slower) and a lot of performance is tied to the Gx card. They are still the Photoshop Kings AFAIK and are very competative in Digital Camera related tasks.
And as far as 4 Ghz Xeons are concerned... They're not due till the end of the year and I think it will be tricky for them to even make that with all the problems they're having. A dual 2.5 will be plenty competitive until the new year. It'll be more important for them to improve memory performance and to get on the PCIe bandwagon. Onboard RAID capability wouldn't hurt either...
I think that the combination of the Motion software being out this summer and a recommended '9800 Pro or better' to run it is another piece in the puzzle to suggest that there will be new towers this summer...
I am not too technical a guy, but new G5 desktops are for sure.
For the following reasons:-
1. Availability of cheaper PPC990fx processors. This is what most people seem to suggest. ie: Smaller the die size, cheaper the cost. Even if the R&D costs are written off at an aggresive pace, the newer 970s have to cheaper. If there is no NEW processor in the pipeline, then it is best for them to plug the cheapest available in.
2. The models have not been updated in close to a year now. Updates are due anyday.
3. Special deals in different markets to get rid of stocks. This is happending all over the globe.
I think that the combination of the Motion software being out this summer and a recommended '9800 Pro or better' to run it is another piece in the puzzle to suggest that there will be new towers this summer...
If Apple had released a refresh early on this year I would believe they'd reach 3 Ghz by the end of summer. But now, having to go from 2 to 3 Ghz in a single jump... I highly doubt it.
Not if the promised 3GHz chip had always been a completely different processor on a completely different development cycle. This is the whole point (and beauty) of the 975 theory: the delays to the 970fx are meaningless.
Comments
Originally posted by tfworld
1. Apple said they will release it. Due to government regulations, you cannot announce products unless you really menan to release them.
Nonsense. What you're not allowed to do is sell products you don't mean to release.
Originally posted by Tomb of the Unknown
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quote:
Originally posted by tfworld
1. Apple said they will release it. Due to government regulations, you cannot announce products unless you really menan to release them.
---------------------
Nonsense. What you're not allowed to do is sell products you don't mean to release.
Haha. If they don't release 3 Ghz PowerMacs, we could just get some SEC lawyers to force IBM to make them and then Apple to put them together and sell them.
Originally posted by hmurchison
It's been a long wait but man dual 3Ghz Powermacs will rock my world. I'm already amazed at how decent apps like FCP and Motion run on a Dual 2ghz.
They will rock your world even more if they are significantly faster than what would be released with a 970xx running at 3GHz. If significant improvements have been made to the processor, we could see greater performance increase than everyones been hoping for. Maybe I'm overlly optimistic but I suspect that Apple is going to make a run for home and not look back.
The Opteron is at 2.4 this summer so I know the 970 should be there as well. Above that it makes sense to have something new.
The opteron has little to do with where the next PPC will go. It is a completely different processor, the clock rate is only loosely tied to the process used to build the processor.
Plus the rumor was that the POWER5 derivative was designed in simulataneous development. That would lead us to late summer/fall shipment.
I'm starting to fell the same way. It isn't just the PowerMac but the iMac or what ever replaces it that have me looking forward to WWDC. The massive delay with the iMac strikes me as being the best sign out there that WWDC will be HOT. I do believe though that they will try to ship as soon as possible after release. Apples so far behind in the market that they need to do something to start to move hardware.
Man I can't wait for WWDC. There's is going to be some COOL shite. I can feel it. [/B]
Originally posted by Programmer
So are you going to spill your beans, or what?
The beans are not mine to spill. I am just saying if you think about it too much, it will not be good for you. Why not show some patience and see what will happen!
Truthfully we will see the next Rev of G5's. Apple did not intend the G5 to stay in the PowerMac. There is something better in the wing. The xServer will move to it as well. The 970fx is merely Apple's break into the 64bit server market. What you will see next will blow the socks off of even Intel's most ambitious project. Think speed and then double it!
Originally posted by Tomb of the Unknown
Nonsense. What you're not allowed to do is sell products you don't mean to release.
Ahh but for a company like Apple, the stock price is directly linked with rumors and news. If there is a rumor of a 3Ghz G5, then the stock goes up. If they do not come through on their promise, then the stock will go down. Either way it is a way to manipulate the price of the stock. I dont think the SEC takes too kindly to that...
If Apple had released a refresh early on this year I would believe they'd reach 3 Ghz by the end of summer. But now, having to go from 2 to 3 Ghz in a single jump... I highly doubt it.
Time to put away some of those lofty predictions and start thinking like a major computer company. If Apple thinks they can milk a ~2.5 Ghz part (which is already a significant improvement and will still be very competitive) they'll do it. This gives Apple some breathing room as clearly CPUs are getting tougher and tougher to produce. And they will want this breathing room...
Steve will take a little flack, they'll spin-doctor it nicely, all the while knowing it will be soon forgotten.
Just my 2 bits...
C.
Originally posted by Concord
Once again I'd like to temper some of the exhuberance here with just a dose of pragmaticism... 8)
If Apple had released a refresh early on this year I would believe they'd reach 3 Ghz by the end of summer. But now, having to go from 2 to 3 Ghz in a single jump... I highly doubt it.
Time to put away some of those lofty predictions and start thinking like a major computer company. If Apple thinks they can milk a ~2.5 Ghz part (which is already a significant improvement and will still be very competitive) they'll do it. This gives Apple some breathing room as clearly CPUs are getting tougher and tougher to produce. And they will want this breathing room...
Steve will take a little flack, they'll spin-doctor it nicely, all the while knowing it will be soon forgotten.
Just my 2 bits...
C.
You can keep talking out your @ss all you want nobody's listening with breath like that.
You may think a 2.5 GHz PowerMac is "very competitive", but those of us who did not buy the 2.0, and most others who did buy it do not think that it's competitive enough. It's stupid reasoning like yours is why Apple is not selling more PowerMacs, and they better know it. because If they don't they are going to find that out the hard way that 2.5GHz is going to drown them. I hope they don't get to comfortable with the sales figures that they would be expecting from this "very competitive" PowerMac at 2.5GHz, because they will come in way under their projected sales graph, and loose a lot of Mac users with BS like that.
So you, and your butt breath can stay at 2.5GHz, and while you, your 2.5GHz reasoning, and Apple loose millions, and return Mac buyers along the way you may want to consider actually creating a machine that is competitive sometime in the future, and maybe a lot of people would consider buying one?
However I think it will be no less than 3499. It only makes sense from a business perspective to profit where you can. High End computers have the most margin. The demand for the Dual 3Ghz would be high enough to sell every chip IBM could crank out. There are professionals out there that need every drop of speed you can give them. If they have to pay $4000 for it so be it because they are probably financing and need the computer to last as long as possible.
Thus I think we should see 2Ghz/2.2Dual/2.5Dual/3Dual
If this is even remotely close to where Apple is headed, then the investments made on all the High end "Processor Intensive" applications starts to really make sense.
Originally posted by hmurchison
I'm lookin' at it from the perspective that 3Ghz is obtainable and will ship this year late summer.
However I think it will be no less than 3499. It only makes sense from a business perspective to profit where you can. High End computers have the most margin. The demand for the Dual 3Ghz would be high enough to sell every chip IBM could crank out. There are professionals out there that need every drop of speed you can give them. If they have to pay $4000 for it so be it because they are probably financing and need the computer to last as long as possible.
Thus I think we should see 2Ghz/2.2Dual/2.5Dual/3Dual
How about this: the lower end machines, let's say the 970fx ones, up to 2.5 Ghz or whatever it is, are immediately shipping. They also announce a 975 (or whatever it's called - didn't someone just make up that number?) at 3 Ghz, shipping in several months, so Jobs doesn't lose face too badly.
Originally posted by Onlooker:
You can keep talking out your @ss all you want nobody's listening with breath like that.
Keep talkin' like that and you're gonna hurt my feelings...
You may think a 2.5 GHz PowerMac is "very competitive", but those of us who did not buy the 2.0, and most others who did buy it do not think that it's competitive enough.
O-kay... JFYI, performance-wise, the dual 2.0 is right in there with the rest of Intel's and AMD offerings. A dual 2.5 would allow them to remain at a competitive performance level for the remainder of the year.
It's stupid reasoning like yours is why Apple is not selling more PowerMacs, and they better know it.
I'm going to clue you into a little secret Onlooker - the reason why Apple doesn't sell more Powermacs has little to do with the processor speed.
Originally posted by hmurchison:
I'm lookin' at it from the perspective that 3Ghz is obtainable and will ship this year late summer.
I'm hoping you're right and some miracle occurs and we do see them by the end of summer. But the way the year has gone so far - I really believe the chances of that are slim at best.
What I'd really like is this place to not degenerate into months long whine-fest if Apple doesn't live up to these lofty expectations...
Cheers,
C.
#1) That is why Apple is not selling more PowerMacs.
#2) The 2.0GHz is not on par with PC's. (which relates to #1 in many ways)
And #3) I'm not setting myself up for disappointment. I have already configured another computer if I'm not happy with what Apple is offering this year, and so have a lot of my friends.
I configured it well enough to where no matter what I'll at least have the best 3D card made AFAIAC. And knowing that alone will keep all disappointment off my back for a long time. Plus there is a lot of cool stuff on the PC side. Sh*t my case alone is almost worth switching.
I just think you and Apple aren't getting it If that is actually what Apple thinks. But if your just saying that because you think Apple just doesn't have the processors because IBM can not supply them. That I can understand, and then would agree, but if Apple is thinking 2.5GHz is good enough when intel is at 4GHz XEONs I just don't agree. Nobody wants to buy a computer from a company that can not keep up even if the computer they buy isn't the fastest one from that company. As long as that company's computer is keeping up with the competition they will see that as a sign of a satisfactory purchase.
That's a fact. Especially in computing. More so than anywhere.
My 2¢
Originally posted by Onlooker:
#1) That is why Apple is not selling more PowerMacs.
Oh, if it were only that easy...
Unfortunately the real reason can be summed up in just 2 letters - P and C, and the increasing ubiquity thereof. The simple fact of the matter is that the overwhelming majority of people simply don't give a rats a$$ about Macs.
Oh, they'll see a sales spike in the quarter they release their refreshed machines, but whether that refresh is 2.5 or 3.0 will make little (but some) difference on sales overall. And you can bet the following quarter sales will just peter out again - as always. And realize that there's only a small segment of users who know, care and can afford it anyway. This is something you can bet Apple is very aware of and why I believe they will give themselves some breathing room to refresh a little more regularly and not just have 1 good PM sales quarter out of every 4.
#2) The 2.0GHz is not on par with PC's. (which relates to #1 in many ways)
In what way? Most of the benchmarks I've seen (that tax the processor) seem to suggest otherwise. You can't fault Macs in gaming because they don't have DirectX (OpenGL is slower) and a lot of performance is tied to the Gx card. They are still the Photoshop Kings AFAIK and are very competative in Digital Camera related tasks.
And as far as 4 Ghz Xeons are concerned... They're not due till the end of the year and I think it will be tricky for them to even make that with all the problems they're having. A dual 2.5 will be plenty competitive until the new year. It'll be more important for them to improve memory performance and to get on the PCIe bandwagon. Onboard RAID capability wouldn't hurt either...
Cheers,
C.
Screw the G5 onlooker hip me to this "wonder case" of yourse. Who makes it and what makes it special?
[Sends out spy camera...]
*click*
C.
that's an interesting comment.
I think that the combination of the Motion software being out this summer and a recommended '9800 Pro or better' to run it is another piece in the puzzle to suggest that there will be new towers this summer...
For the following reasons:-
1. Availability of cheaper PPC990fx processors. This is what most people seem to suggest. ie: Smaller the die size, cheaper the cost. Even if the R&D costs are written off at an aggresive pace, the newer 970s have to cheaper. If there is no NEW processor in the pipeline, then it is best for them to plug the cheapest available in.
2. The models have not been updated in close to a year now. Updates are due anyday.
3. Special deals in different markets to get rid of stocks. This is happending all over the globe.
Lets hope for the best......
Originally posted by SeanL
fresco,
that's an interesting comment.
I think that the combination of the Motion software being out this summer and a recommended '9800 Pro or better' to run it is another piece in the puzzle to suggest that there will be new towers this summer...
Aghh, I was beating this drum back on page 2...
Originally posted by Concord
If Apple had released a refresh early on this year I would believe they'd reach 3 Ghz by the end of summer. But now, having to go from 2 to 3 Ghz in a single jump... I highly doubt it.
Not if the promised 3GHz chip had always been a completely different processor on a completely different development cycle. This is the whole point (and beauty) of the 975 theory: the delays to the 970fx are meaningless.