The iPod won't be updated at WWDC. It's a developers' conference, first of all. Announcing iPods there would not only be wasteful, it would seemingly confirm the fears of everyone who's afraid that Apple will give up computers.
Furthermore, Toshiba said that the new 1.8" hard drives would only start shipping in July/August. That's not enough time for there to be an announcement, especially considering the iPod mini fiasco. Remember that Apple still has to assemble the iPods themselves before they can be considered ready.
MacMorsel:
Those aren't predictions that you made, by the way - those are purely daydreams. Apple will not overhaul their whole lineup in one show, especially not when they already did a few updates (eMacs, iBooks, PowerBooks) just a couple months before.
The one thing I could see Apple doing with iMac G5s that you mention would be colours, but if they do as much I think they'll remember their lessons from the iMac G3, i.e. keep the colours relatively tame and low in number. It's easy to justify having five colour options for a $250 MP3 player. It's much harder to do that with a $1000+ computer lineup. I say that Apple doesn't go any further than three colours at most, and that they play it safe (blue, green, silver) if that's the case.
The one thing I could see Apple doing with iMac G5s that you mention would be colours, but if they do as much I think they'll remember their lessons from the iMac G3, i.e. keep the colours relatively tame and low in number.
I think the return of color would be a mistake. I get the feeling that the G5 iMac is being primed as the "grown up" iMac. Still sleek and gorgeous of course, but more refined and powerful. It'll still be white, but with more chrome and/or metal accents and fittings.
You gotta remember that when the fruit-flavored iMacs were all the rage there were no inexpensive, powerful iBooks and eMacs or multi-colored iPod minis to also appeal to the youth/female/hipster market. Now the G5 iMac can take its rightful place as the elegant prosumer machine it has recently tried to be, but finally with the specs to back it up.
I think in the next few months they will make the Super drive in all systems and no downgardes.. this would make every mac having DVD burning capabiities and maybe for some new software that would use that.
no one knows anything about what or IF apple will introduce ANYTHING at wwdc or than "TIGER".
True, nobody outside Apple and its contractors knows anything or if they do they're under non-disclosure. However you have to figure that small bits of information leak from time to time whether true or not. Those tiny leaks, and guessing are what speculation is based on. If you're not interested in speculation, I don't know why you'd be here. It's the subject of the thread.
With that said, I really think (and hope) Apple will be trying to offer a low end iMac below $1000. I speculate that. Screw the specs, offer an iMac with an adjustable LCD for $999!
I don't think the iMac is going to get updated before the PowerMac. Nor is WWDC a good choice for the iMac update. But I think the LCD iMac is a luxury item. Apple should just put a cinema wide style screen in an old style eMac iMac one piece enclosure, and have that lower priced iMac back. Just have a different version for affordability. It's cool as h3ll, but it's too expensive for your every day computer buyer. eMachines, and stripped down celeron processor driven PC's are attracting all the new computer buyers. Not many people want to spend that kind of money on their first computer, and too many parents just cant afford it like they could with the bondi blue iMac.
I think we'll see both the new PowerMacs and the iMacs arrive at WWDC (and that's it for Macs). The new PowerMacs will be much faster and may come with the 975, but failing that will be dual 2.5+ GHz 970FXs. There's a decent chance of seeing PCI Express, I think -- Apple may want to try leading here for a change, and they may get on board with the latest ATI or nVidia GPUs.
For the iMac I'm thinking there is a good chance that the form factor will change, and it might even morph into a low-end headless unit. The 970FX was designed for this machine, and if the yields are getting better as IBM claims then we'll see them at speeds of 1.8 - 2.2 GHz or so. The FSB will run at 1/2 processor clock, but the iMac will not have dual bank RAM and may only have DDR333. If they change to a headless machine the GPU will be on a card and there maybe BTO variations, or at least pre-built configs for those serious about their graphics.
Regardless of my accuracy I confidently predict that many users will be right back here complaining that they are too slow, too expensive, too hard to get, too late to save Apple, etc.
If iMac G5 is released, it will have a 970fx at a minimum of 2.0Ghz.
I said this once before, I do not believe that Apple will release any machine with PCIe at WWDC. Maybe by MWSF we will see this, but not at the end of the month.
I wish it were true that PCIe Macs were going to be released, but it doesn't add up with me.
I hope to see iMacs at 2.2, 2.4, and 2.6. I would also like to see PM's all dual at 2.5, 3.0, and 3.5.
I don't want Apple to just reach 3.0, I want them to break it. I also want to see more prosumerish specs on the new iMac.
It would be nice if Apple tossed in a new XServe speed bump and announced that these machines were being shipped to VT in mass. I want to see Big Mac II take the top prize in Supercomputing.
iMac G5s would have to be redesigned to handle the heat load, even with a 1.6 GHz 970FX. A single variable speed fan will do the trick. There could be a pitched radial heat sink similar to those used on fast new GPUs but it'd take up more room than what's used in the G4 iMac now. Adding a beefier GPU would also increase the heat load.
With all of this in mind, I'd imagine some sort of shape change would be in order. Instead of the ring of little slits around the base, they could have a continuous slot around the base, making the iMac look like it's floating:
Of course, the design could be something completely different.
I'd sure like to see a headless version of this for something like $999.
I'm also wondering about the new G5s. If there's a unified heat sink/fan unit and no front fans in the processor bay, there'd be lots of room for additional internal HDs. For that to work, all models would have to be duals. I wonder if there'll be front-accessible hot-swappable HDs as in Xserve RAID or simply space inside for extra internal drives on higher end models.
As for speeds, I'd guess 2.2, 2.4, and 2.6 GHz, +/- 200 MHz.
No inside knowledge of course, but be prepared to be stunned by my prescience on the 28th!
First things first, the 15" model gets killed and the entry level actually goes up a $100. If you want a <$1K machine get an eMac. 1024 displays are now only on the small, light portables were they belong.
Well I doubt they will continue with the 2 to 1 ratio for the FSB. I'm thinking they will set hteir sites on a multiplier of 3 or 4, thus a machine with a 500 MHz bus will run at 2GHz with a 4 to 1 ratio and 1.5GHz with a 3 to 1 ratio. This would allow Apple to make use of reasonably fast memmory and improve dramatically the performance of the current machine.
The bigger question in my mind is where tehy stand with respect to the GPU. What would really be hot is if they went with PCI-Express on the new iMac. That would really give us a machine with extended life span.
You know I'm neither young/female nor a hipster and I still think the multi colored iMacs where a good idea. Maybe they didn't always make the best color choices but just having a choice is a very positive thing. Besides those colored machines can be an enhancement to many an office.
Thanks
Dave
Quote:
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
or multi-colored iPod minis to also appeal to the youth/female/hipster market.
Heat and cost might be factors though. I know they did some wonderful things with cooling off the fx, but that iMac base really IS small.
And presumably the slower chips would still be cheaper, even if they've really got the manufacturing down. One question though is how slow will they even make the fx? For example, will they make any at 1.6 Ghz when it's the successor to a chip that also started at 1.6 Ghz.
As Programmer said, we can speculate that the form factor will be different. I am ready to bet a couple of Champagne bottle on this one .
A new technology means a new design, and Apple love to be the leader in fashion computer.
I also think that the computer won't support dual memory banks, and will have only two memory slots. However I'll bet for DDR 400 memory, because this memory is cheap now, and if especially the new powermac G5 use DDR 2.
As for the return of the colors, Apple has now the potential to do it in a very cool fashion. Someone here (sorry, I don't remember the name) had designed some very nice mock-ups of colored iBooks, a la iPod mini. Anyone to try her/his talent in a, possibly metal, iMac with such colors ?
when will all ye geeks out there finally accept the fact that Apple will rather make a product which appeals to hip people than one which appeals to geeks?
I also think the colors were a brilliant way to appeal to consumers. That's one choice that consumers really do like to have.
The only problem is that for relatively large, expensive items like personal computers, multiple colors are a logistical nightmare. Last time Apple solved the logistical problem on its end by manufacturing equal amounts of all colors and punting the problem to the retailers, who were (understandably) outraged. Perhaps now that Apple has a significant investment in retail itself they won't try that again - but that leaves the problem of being able to rapidly and inexpensively adjust how many of which color get made for whom. The great cost saver in mass production is consistency: you can have any color you want as long as it's white. Every option introduces complexity, time and cost to the process. And those costs reappear when you have to distribute, stock and display multiple configurations.
I'm not suggesting that it's an insoluble problem, because that's absurd. It's been solved many times, in many ways - but in other industries. Apple's going to have to figure out how to crack this nut its own way, and convince its third-party resellers to play along.
All that said, though, if they can do it, great. If they don't, then they'd better have a heck of a good design.
Comments
Furthermore, Toshiba said that the new 1.8" hard drives would only start shipping in July/August. That's not enough time for there to be an announcement, especially considering the iPod mini fiasco. Remember that Apple still has to assemble the iPods themselves before they can be considered ready.
MacMorsel:
Those aren't predictions that you made, by the way - those are purely daydreams. Apple will not overhaul their whole lineup in one show, especially not when they already did a few updates (eMacs, iBooks, PowerBooks) just a couple months before.
The one thing I could see Apple doing with iMac G5s that you mention would be colours, but if they do as much I think they'll remember their lessons from the iMac G3, i.e. keep the colours relatively tame and low in number. It's easy to justify having five colour options for a $250 MP3 player. It's much harder to do that with a $1000+ computer lineup. I say that Apple doesn't go any further than three colours at most, and that they play it safe (blue, green, silver) if that's the case.
Originally posted by Commodus
The one thing I could see Apple doing with iMac G5s that you mention would be colours, but if they do as much I think they'll remember their lessons from the iMac G3, i.e. keep the colours relatively tame and low in number.
I think the return of color would be a mistake. I get the feeling that the G5 iMac is being primed as the "grown up" iMac. Still sleek and gorgeous of course, but more refined and powerful. It'll still be white, but with more chrome and/or metal accents and fittings.
You gotta remember that when the fruit-flavored iMacs were all the rage there were no inexpensive, powerful iBooks and eMacs or multi-colored iPod minis to also appeal to the youth/female/hipster market. Now the G5 iMac can take its rightful place as the elegant prosumer machine it has recently tried to be, but finally with the specs to back it up.
no one knows anything about what or IF apple will introduce ANYTHING at wwdc or than "TIGER".
Originally posted by geekmeet
these threads kill me.
no one knows anything about what or IF apple will introduce ANYTHING at wwdc or than "TIGER".
True, nobody outside Apple and its contractors knows anything or if they do they're under non-disclosure. However you have to figure that small bits of information leak from time to time whether true or not. Those tiny leaks, and guessing are what speculation is based on. If you're not interested in speculation, I don't know why you'd be here. It's the subject of the thread.
With that said, I really think (and hope) Apple will be trying to offer a low end iMac below $1000. I speculate that. Screw the specs, offer an iMac with an adjustable LCD for $999!
my 2¢
I think we'll see both the new PowerMacs and the iMacs arrive at WWDC (and that's it for Macs). The new PowerMacs will be much faster and may come with the 975, but failing that will be dual 2.5+ GHz 970FXs. There's a decent chance of seeing PCI Express, I think -- Apple may want to try leading here for a change, and they may get on board with the latest ATI or nVidia GPUs.
For the iMac I'm thinking there is a good chance that the form factor will change, and it might even morph into a low-end headless unit. The 970FX was designed for this machine, and if the yields are getting better as IBM claims then we'll see them at speeds of 1.8 - 2.2 GHz or so. The FSB will run at 1/2 processor clock, but the iMac will not have dual bank RAM and may only have DDR333. If they change to a headless machine the GPU will be on a card and there maybe BTO variations, or at least pre-built configs for those serious about their graphics.
Regardless of my accuracy I confidently predict that many users will be right back here complaining that they are too slow, too expensive, too hard to get, too late to save Apple, etc.
I said this once before, I do not believe that Apple will release any machine with PCIe at WWDC. Maybe by MWSF we will see this, but not at the end of the month.
I wish it were true that PCIe Macs were going to be released, but it doesn't add up with me.
I hope to see iMacs at 2.2, 2.4, and 2.6. I would also like to see PM's all dual at 2.5, 3.0, and 3.5.
I don't want Apple to just reach 3.0, I want them to break it. I also want to see more prosumerish specs on the new iMac.
It would be nice if Apple tossed in a new XServe speed bump and announced that these machines were being shipped to VT in mass. I want to see Big Mac II take the top prize in Supercomputing.
iMac G5s would have to be redesigned to handle the heat load, even with a 1.6 GHz 970FX. A single variable speed fan will do the trick. There could be a pitched radial heat sink similar to those used on fast new GPUs but it'd take up more room than what's used in the G4 iMac now. Adding a beefier GPU would also increase the heat load.
With all of this in mind, I'd imagine some sort of shape change would be in order. Instead of the ring of little slits around the base, they could have a continuous slot around the base, making the iMac look like it's floating:
Of course, the design could be something completely different.
Other spec ideas to complete the picture:
Dual RAM slots, 800 MHz bus, 333 MHz PC2700 memory
512MB (2x256)
80GB SATA 7200 rpm
8x DVD-R SuperDrive
20" LCD
$2099
I'd sure like to see a headless version of this for something like $999.
I'm also wondering about the new G5s. If there's a unified heat sink/fan unit and no front fans in the processor bay, there'd be lots of room for additional internal HDs. For that to work, all models would have to be duals. I wonder if there'll be front-accessible hot-swappable HDs as in Xserve RAID or simply space inside for extra internal drives on higher end models.
As for speeds, I'd guess 2.2, 2.4, and 2.6 GHz, +/- 200 MHz.
Well, less than two weeks to go before we know.
No inside knowledge of course, but be prepared to be stunned by my prescience on the 28th!
First things first, the 15" model gets killed and the entry level actually goes up a $100. If you want a <$1K machine get an eMac. 1024 displays are now only on the small, light portables were they belong.
17" iMac G5
1.6 GHz 970fx
Combo Drive
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64MB (AGP 8x)
256MB RAM
80GB SATA drive
$1399
17" iMac G5
1.8 GHz 970fx
SuperDrive (8x)
ATI Radeon 9600 Pro 64MB (AGP 8x)
512MB RAM
120GB SATA drive
$1799
20" iMac G5
2.0 GHz 970fx
SuperDrive (8x)
ATI Radeon 9600 Pro 64MB (AGP 8x)
512MB RAM
120GB SATA drive
$2199
The bigger question in my mind is where tehy stand with respect to the GPU. What would really be hot is if they went with PCI-Express on the new iMac. That would really give us a machine with extended life span.
Dave
Originally posted by hmurchison
I'm hoping they don't cripple the FSB. The G5
needs a fast FSB to feed the processor. But hey
it's Apple we're talking about here.
Thanks
Dave
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
or multi-colored iPod minis to also appeal to the youth/female/hipster market.
Originally posted by BRussell
Heat and cost might be factors though. I know they did some wonderful things with cooling off the fx, but that iMac base really IS small.
And presumably the slower chips would still be cheaper, even if they've really got the manufacturing down. One question though is how slow will they even make the fx? For example, will they make any at 1.6 Ghz when it's the successor to a chip that also started at 1.6 Ghz.
As Programmer said, we can speculate that the form factor will be different. I am ready to bet a couple of Champagne bottle on this one
A new technology means a new design, and Apple love to be the leader in fashion computer.
I also think that the computer won't support dual memory banks, and will have only two memory slots. However I'll bet for DDR 400 memory, because this memory is cheap now, and if especially the new powermac G5 use DDR 2.
colours are good
the current white styling is godawful
Originally posted by Powerdoc
As Programmer said, we can speculate that the form factor will be different. I am ready to bet a couple of Champagne bottle on this one
Yes, but are they full bottles?
Originally posted by Programmer
Yes, but are they full bottles?
Let the speculation begin!
I also think the colors were a brilliant way to appeal to consumers. That's one choice that consumers really do like to have.
The only problem is that for relatively large, expensive items like personal computers, multiple colors are a logistical nightmare. Last time Apple solved the logistical problem on its end by manufacturing equal amounts of all colors and punting the problem to the retailers, who were (understandably) outraged. Perhaps now that Apple has a significant investment in retail itself they won't try that again - but that leaves the problem of being able to rapidly and inexpensively adjust how many of which color get made for whom. The great cost saver in mass production is consistency: you can have any color you want as long as it's white. Every option introduces complexity, time and cost to the process. And those costs reappear when you have to distribute, stock and display multiple configurations.
I'm not suggesting that it's an insoluble problem, because that's absurd. It's been solved many times, in many ways - but in other industries. Apple's going to have to figure out how to crack this nut its own way, and convince its third-party resellers to play along.
All that said, though, if they can do it, great. If they don't, then they'd better have a heck of a good design.
Originally posted by PB
Someone here (sorry, I don't remember the name) had designed some very nice mock-ups of colored iBooks, a la iPod mini.
Yes, it was Jimzip and Pscates. For those who missed that thread, take a look here.