I'm as hard on Apple as anyone in this forum. Yet, there could be a good reason they use such low end vid cards. It occurred to me that they may not be able to do any better. They do not have the OEM options as PC manufacturers. AAC is probably a big part of this. Every card has to be specially designed for or by Apple. The iMac does not have an AGP slot so it is practically the same as integrated graphics. Apple clearly understands the value of a good graphics card or else they would not have one as an expensive option for the PM line and they would not use it as a differentiator. It goes to show just how weak their position is in the computer industry. Remember this the next time someone says that market share doesn't matter.
Since this is FH, I will add that we have no reason to believe this will change in the future. Apple's market position is not getting stronger by the day, it is getting weaker. New PCs are being sold at an increasingly faster rate than new Macs. Therefore, new component makers have even less reason to diversify their lines. They can sell the same amount of new product this year to the PC only crowd as they could last year going dual platform. That becomes more true as each year passes. Besides, Making new cards for Macs won't get them any new customers. The Mac market is not growing that fast. They know that Apple will be content with two and three year old tech because they have no choice. Apple will buy the same number of chips from Nvidia whether they are old chips or new ones. Same for ATI. This is not about to change anytime soon. Therefore, Apple just has to make the best of what they can get. At any rate, I hope that is the reason. Because I would hate to believe that Apple is stupid enough to offer such lackluster hardware when they have better options available to them.
troll defending alert. Oh, you are right. Mr. Alienware - a Mac afficionado from a way back - just happen to drop in. "The whole philosophy of crippling iMac with subpar cpu's-(G4)" - what insight! " Look at all the hardware- Powermac- i waited a year for what???" - I guess arguably the fastest desktop is pretty worthless. "What has Apples hardware division become??? a art shop using technology from years gone by?" - a clear and concise analysis of Apple's current efforts.
whats your point repeating others post but go right ahead.Thank you, and just because someone hasnt registered here at apple insider before you doesnt make them a newbie,troll or PC lover. The Fact is we have the best OS period. the other fact is our hardware doesnt hold a candle in performance in respect to the otherside except for the dual 2.5. dual 2.0 is about equal to the high end P4s according to MacAddict and Macworld. If 2 Mac magazines are saying that with all their bias then you know its true. So where does this leave any G4 machine??? way way behind unless you doing that photoshop blur that Apple used to love to brag about.
I simply wish they would make a machine that the consumer or prosumer could configure. 1 fastest cpu and 1 fast GPU and ill order another today but Apple pushes you into Powermac with everything or consumer offerings with poor performance. ( I like to game on the most stable and safe platform thank you), Every top PC maker lets you configure the machine and they own the market. Apple forces people into getting things they dont want just to get the item of their interest. this is another reason they have such poor marketshare. sell to the consumer and the consumer will reward you. example-crt iMac & iPod. build a computer out of subpar hardware and consumers will leave you. example iMac Lcd and Emac. Apple should have been selling a single G5 machine with its fastest cpu and gpu(options) a year ago and we would have beat a path to Apple's door. Why is that so hard for Apple when every PC maker in the world does this? build a computer for the consumer not for your ego.
As I just posted in the News Comments section, what if this supposed new iMac shares a similar design that the rumored new pro displays have? The only difference to the rendering done by Paul Scates would be that the back would obviously be thicker, and have a vertical optical drive. Everything else, including the power brick and the stand would be relatively identical. Would this make sense as the "pizza box" design? I don't know.
Jonathan Ive already specifically said that he did build working prototypes of a Cinema Display with a computer built in vertically but said they decided against it for various technical reasons. I can't find the interview at the moment. It was right after the LCD iMac came out.
Granted, if they have resolved the issues, nothing is stopping them from doing it. Personally I'm all for it. I prefer all in ones, but don't want them to be the only option either.
(Edit: "Ive" looks like "I've" if you read it too quickly Changes the tone altogether!)
Ive already specifically said that he did build working prototypes of a Cinema Display with a computer built in vertically but said they decided against it for various technical reasons. I can't find the interview at the moment. It was right after the LCD iMac came out.
I too recall this, and it makes me wonder how accurate these so-called sources are with this "pizza box" rumor.
On the one hand people complain that Apple hardware isn't as cheap as crappy WinPCs. On the other hand they expect all the latest features and not to have to pay for them. I for one (not being a gamer) am glad Apple doesn't make me pay for wicked fast GPUs I'll never need.
Aurora: sorry to take this one sentence out of context.
have fun not taking advantage of half of tiger's features with your crappy gpu
I agree with the comments by Aurora, Applenut and others.
The iMac 2 is approaching junkyard status.
Overpriced. Underspecced. Underselling.
Clear correlation between them. Enough for Apple's former Fincancial Honcho to admit they're off the 'sweetspot'.
HELLO, then DO something about it.
I can see it now. iMac 2 and eMac limping along with a 1.5 gig G5 and a Geforce(! Heh...) 520fxpants (based on the Geforce 2Mx? ) sleeping on park benches outside Apple stores come 1st half 2005...
I think a 'iPod Express' Computer could competely replace the whole iMac 'game' and appeal to the iPod crowd. Clearly, the iMac and eMac don't cut it.
Apple need a whole new proposition that goes with 'Tiger' and the iPod.
I realize the Power Mac is one rockin sockin machine, but to be honest with you, I just do need that much power and most likely never will. However, the PowerMac serves a definite market niche that is very important.
The iMac serves a different market. I do not. I repeat, I do not want a PowerMac user telling me that an iMac is not what I need for my needs. First it is beatiful. Second, it is a small form factor. It takes up a small amount of desk space and I don't have a huge ugly refrigerator under my desk. Now, the iBooks and PowerBooks are also great products for special niches however I also want a larger screen, a full size wireless keyboard, and a wireless mouse. Presto, the iMac is the perfect product.
Why do many of you speak of some new monster headless iMac, What the heck is that and how will it make my experience better. Is it that you love your PowerMac and think that my needs are the same as yours and I would be better off with a huge refrigerator. I also like being able to sivel the screen from side to side. I can rotate it from my desk to my sofa.
Hey, PowerMac users. Will you be the ones who buy this new headless iMac. I don't think so.
I wholeheartedly agree. I am satisfied with an AIO. I don't need the oversized computer that sits under my desk. A simple machine is all I want and need. The eMac might be a nice machine, but I prefer an LCD - that's why I like the iMac.
Who says that a headless iMac would be so large as to have to sit under your desk? Jebus, folks, it's not like Macs can only come in two sizes-- current iMacs & Powermacs. How about something roughly the size of an old LC? Perhaps a bit bigger than that, since it's got to accommodate an optical drive as opposed to just a floppy, but hopefully not much...
Quote:
Hey, PowerMac users. Will you be the ones who buy this new headless iMac. I don't think so.
Actually, if a 1.8GHz G5 machine were available for around $1k, yeah, I'd buy one without thinking twice.
I wholeheartedly agree. I am satisfied with an AIO. I don't need the oversized computer that sits under my desk. A simple machine is all I want and need. The eMac might be a nice machine, but I prefer an LCD - that's why I like the iMac.
The problem is that you represent a microscopic niche of a very small niche. I don't know why you happy iMac folks don't see this for yourselves. No one wants to be forced into certain hardware because of the preferences of a small group of people. The i/eMac represents the ENTIRE consumer desktop line. They are AIO. The number of people who want an AIO regardless of what's in it is so small, it is not worth mentioning. Yet, Apple forces this form factor on the entire consumer market who has voted with their dollars that they don't like it. The AIO is not successful on the Mac platform. It is just that people don't have a choice. Uncouple the display from the machine and offer the same sized display and monitor for the same price as the AIO, sell them side by side, and the AIO Mac would be out of business over night. Apple doesn't do this because of concern for the user experience. They do it so that they can sell overpriced monitors. Obviously, you are an exception to the rule or else the iMac would be a raging success. People are still buying desktop computers and they are still spending a thousand dollars and more to do it. But they do not like what they see in the iMac 2. They never did. It was never a success. It will never be a success. Those who liked the original iMac are buying eMacs. Those who need a little more power are pretty much forced into buying PMs. I believe that is exactly what Apple wants. The way Apple seems to see it is every iMac sale represents a lost PM sale.
One last thing. Comparisons to PCs in a similar price range is very fair because Apple claimed to be targeting switchers with the iMac once upon a time. Well, if they want the other 98%, then they have to offer something the other 98% are willing to buy. No AIO no matter how good it is, will ever bring in switchers. Apple needs to find a market for the iMac or kill it.
The problem is that you represent a microscopic niche of a very small niche. I don't know why you happy iMac folks don't see this for yourselves. No one wants to be forced into certain hardware because of the preferences of a small group of people. The i/eMac represents the ENTIRE consumer desktop line. They are AIO. The number of people who want an AIO regardless of what's in it is so small, it is not worth mentioning.
Mac Voyer, I don't think that number is as small as you think. The number who want to pay for an overpriced under-speced iMac is indeed small. You're right that part of the problem with finding switchers is that the i/eMacs represent the ENTIRE consumer desktop line. There should be something else available. However, given an AIO with a LCD and decent specs at a good price, I think consumers would snatch them up pretty quickly. I'm not talking about one with a big honkin' display, either; 15" to 17" is plenty.
I didn't mean to imply that the AIO is the only consumer unit Apple should make, There is room for other alternatives and Apple should consider expanding its consumer lineup. I might even consider a "headless" Mac if it were a small CPU case, much like the Cube of old,
All Apple has to do is create a line of mini towers. Single processor G5, one hard drive and two card slots. It's not so hard.
Thank you mystery solved, but instead Apple plays spy vs spy, they play the handicap and cripple the consumer line so bad no one wants them, they play we cant put that into Imac because it (may ) hurt powermac sells etc...
Now that they've dropped the 17" display, I think it's almost certain that they're not going for a low-end headless iMac. Their displays start at $1299 now, and that's right in the middle of where the iMac price range should be. So it seems clear to me that we're keeping the all-in-one iMac, and basically if you want a display smaller than 20" you'll have to get the iMac (or eMac).
I wholeheartedly agree. I am satisfied with an AIO. I don't need the oversized computer that sits under my desk. A simple machine is all I want and need. The eMac might be a nice machine, but I prefer an LCD - that's why I like the iMac.
I second that, although the iMac's design has limited Apple's ability to make it more optionable.
There must be options for gamers on the GPU as a BTO (but try to fit a 9600/9800 in an imac?), removing the power supply, might help, but i think a 1.5G G4 would satisfy most purchases, and dropped the damm price. A single G5 (2G) at the high end would be nice for those 20" buyers.
Comments
Since this is FH, I will add that we have no reason to believe this will change in the future. Apple's market position is not getting stronger by the day, it is getting weaker. New PCs are being sold at an increasingly faster rate than new Macs. Therefore, new component makers have even less reason to diversify their lines. They can sell the same amount of new product this year to the PC only crowd as they could last year going dual platform. That becomes more true as each year passes. Besides, Making new cards for Macs won't get them any new customers. The Mac market is not growing that fast. They know that Apple will be content with two and three year old tech because they have no choice. Apple will buy the same number of chips from Nvidia whether they are old chips or new ones. Same for ATI. This is not about to change anytime soon. Therefore, Apple just has to make the best of what they can get. At any rate, I hope that is the reason. Because I would hate to believe that Apple is stupid enough to offer such lackluster hardware when they have better options available to them.
Originally posted by jwdawso
troll defending alert.
whats your point repeating others post but go right ahead.Thank you, and just because someone hasnt registered here at apple insider before you doesnt make them a newbie,troll or PC lover. The Fact is we have the best OS period. the other fact is our hardware doesnt hold a candle in performance in respect to the otherside except for the dual 2.5. dual 2.0 is about equal to the high end P4s according to MacAddict and Macworld. If 2 Mac magazines are saying that with all their bias then you know its true. So where does this leave any G4 machine??? way way behind unless you doing that photoshop blur that Apple used to love to brag about.
I simply wish they would make a machine that the consumer or prosumer could configure. 1 fastest cpu and 1 fast GPU and ill order another today but Apple pushes you into Powermac with everything or consumer offerings with poor performance. ( I like to game on the most stable and safe platform thank you), Every top PC maker lets you configure the machine and they own the market. Apple forces people into getting things they dont want just to get the item of their interest. this is another reason they have such poor marketshare. sell to the consumer and the consumer will reward you. example-crt iMac & iPod. build a computer out of subpar hardware and consumers will leave you. example iMac Lcd and Emac. Apple should have been selling a single G5 machine with its fastest cpu and gpu(options) a year ago and we would have beat a path to Apple's door. Why is that so hard for Apple when every PC maker in the world does this? build a computer for the consumer not for your ego.
or
Cool
When i buy one?
Originally posted by nsousansousa
It looks like a road sign! There's clearly not enough art in that mock-up.
Granted, if they have resolved the issues, nothing is stopping them from doing it. Personally I'm all for it. I prefer all in ones, but don't want them to be the only option either.
(Edit: "Ive" looks like "I've" if you read it too quickly
Originally posted by johnq
Ive already specifically said that he did build working prototypes of a Cinema Display with a computer built in vertically but said they decided against it for various technical reasons. I can't find the interview at the moment. It was right after the LCD iMac came out.
I too recall this, and it makes me wonder how accurate these so-called sources are with this "pizza box" rumor.
Originally posted by iDave
On the one hand people complain that Apple hardware isn't as cheap as crappy WinPCs. On the other hand they expect all the latest features and not to have to pay for them. I for one (not being a gamer) am glad Apple doesn't make me pay for wicked fast GPUs I'll never need.
Aurora: sorry to take this one sentence out of context.
have fun not taking advantage of half of tiger's features with your crappy gpu
The iMac 2 is approaching junkyard status.
Overpriced. Underspecced. Underselling.
Clear correlation between them. Enough for Apple's former Fincancial Honcho to admit they're off the 'sweetspot'.
HELLO, then DO something about it.
I can see it now. iMac 2 and eMac limping along with a 1.5 gig G5 and a Geforce(! Heh...) 520fxpants (based on the Geforce 2Mx?
I think a 'iPod Express' Computer could competely replace the whole iMac 'game' and appeal to the iPod crowd. Clearly, the iMac and eMac don't cut it.
Apple need a whole new proposition that goes with 'Tiger' and the iPod.
Lemon Bon Bon
I realize the Power Mac is one rockin sockin machine, but to be honest with you, I just do need that much power and most likely never will. However, the PowerMac serves a definite market niche that is very important.
The iMac serves a different market. I do not. I repeat, I do not want a PowerMac user telling me that an iMac is not what I need for my needs. First it is beatiful. Second, it is a small form factor. It takes up a small amount of desk space and I don't have a huge ugly refrigerator under my desk. Now, the iBooks and PowerBooks are also great products for special niches however I also want a larger screen, a full size wireless keyboard, and a wireless mouse. Presto, the iMac is the perfect product.
Why do many of you speak of some new monster headless iMac, What the heck is that and how will it make my experience better. Is it that you love your PowerMac and think that my needs are the same as yours and I would be better off with a huge refrigerator. I also like being able to sivel the screen from side to side. I can rotate it from my desk to my sofa.
Hey, PowerMac users. Will you be the ones who buy this new headless iMac. I don't think so.
Hey, PowerMac users. Will you be the ones who buy this new headless iMac. I don't think so.
Actually, if a 1.8GHz G5 machine were available for around $1k, yeah, I'd buy one without thinking twice.
Originally posted by chipz
I wholeheartedly agree. I am satisfied with an AIO. I don't need the oversized computer that sits under my desk. A simple machine is all I want and need. The eMac might be a nice machine, but I prefer an LCD - that's why I like the iMac.
The problem is that you represent a microscopic niche of a very small niche. I don't know why you happy iMac folks don't see this for yourselves. No one wants to be forced into certain hardware because of the preferences of a small group of people. The i/eMac represents the ENTIRE consumer desktop line. They are AIO. The number of people who want an AIO regardless of what's in it is so small, it is not worth mentioning. Yet, Apple forces this form factor on the entire consumer market who has voted with their dollars that they don't like it. The AIO is not successful on the Mac platform. It is just that people don't have a choice. Uncouple the display from the machine and offer the same sized display and monitor for the same price as the AIO, sell them side by side, and the AIO Mac would be out of business over night. Apple doesn't do this because of concern for the user experience. They do it so that they can sell overpriced monitors. Obviously, you are an exception to the rule or else the iMac would be a raging success. People are still buying desktop computers and they are still spending a thousand dollars and more to do it. But they do not like what they see in the iMac 2. They never did. It was never a success. It will never be a success. Those who liked the original iMac are buying eMacs. Those who need a little more power are pretty much forced into buying PMs. I believe that is exactly what Apple wants. The way Apple seems to see it is every iMac sale represents a lost PM sale.
One last thing. Comparisons to PCs in a similar price range is very fair because Apple claimed to be targeting switchers with the iMac once upon a time. Well, if they want the other 98%, then they have to offer something the other 98% are willing to buy. No AIO no matter how good it is, will ever bring in switchers. Apple needs to find a market for the iMac or kill it.
Originally posted by Mac Voyer
The problem is that you represent a microscopic niche of a very small niche. I don't know why you happy iMac folks don't see this for yourselves. No one wants to be forced into certain hardware because of the preferences of a small group of people. The i/eMac represents the ENTIRE consumer desktop line. They are AIO. The number of people who want an AIO regardless of what's in it is so small, it is not worth mentioning.
Mac Voyer, I don't think that number is as small as you think. The number who want to pay for an overpriced under-speced iMac is indeed small. You're right that part of the problem with finding switchers is that the i/eMacs represent the ENTIRE consumer desktop line. There should be something else available. However, given an AIO with a LCD and decent specs at a good price, I think consumers would snatch them up pretty quickly. I'm not talking about one with a big honkin' display, either; 15" to 17" is plenty.
Originally posted by TWinbrook46636
All Apple has to do is create a line of mini towers. Single processor G5, one hard drive and two card slots. It's not so hard.
Thank you mystery solved, but instead Apple plays spy vs spy, they play the handicap and cripple the consumer line so bad no one wants them, they play we cant put that into Imac because it (may ) hurt powermac sells etc...
Originally posted by chipz
I wholeheartedly agree. I am satisfied with an AIO. I don't need the oversized computer that sits under my desk. A simple machine is all I want and need. The eMac might be a nice machine, but I prefer an LCD - that's why I like the iMac.
I second that, although the iMac's design has limited Apple's ability to make it more optionable.
There must be options for gamers on the GPU as a BTO (but try to fit a 9600/9800 in an imac?), removing the power supply, might help, but i think a 1.5G G4 would satisfy most purchases, and dropped the damm price. A single G5 (2G) at the high end would be nice for those 20" buyers.