The next iMac could very well have a 1.5 gig G4 in it.
I seriously doubt it. If that was the case, it'd be out already. It would be fairly simple for Apple to bump the speed to a 1.5 G4, add an 8X Superdrive and be done with it. Then the iMac wouldn't look quite so bad compared to the eMac. However, there's something better coming, I can feel it. 8)
It's been 9 months (September 8, 2003) since the 15" and 17" were upgraded, which isn't so long that it must be something weird going on. And I take Boger's statement about the G5 being hard to get into PowerBooks and iMacs at face value. So now I'm looking for a revision of the iMac with faster G4s sometime in the next two weeks or so. Oh well.
It's been 9 months (September 8, 2003) since the 15" and 17" were upgraded, which isn't so long that it must be something weird going on. And I take Boger's statement about the G5 being hard to get into PowerBooks and iMacs at face value. So now I'm looking for a revision of the iMac with faster G4s sometime in the next two weeks or so. Oh well.
Um, well, did you notice that he said we won't see a 3Ghz G5 anytime soon and we won't see a PowerBook G5 until at least the end of the year but he didn't say that about the iMac. He simply said Apple has faced the same kind of difficulty with it. Those Apple guys choose their words very carefully and I think this leaves the door wide open for a surprise, pretty soon.
Um, well, did you notice that he said we won't see a 3Ghz G5 anytime soon and we won't see a PowerBook G5 until at least the end of the year but he didn't say that about the iMac. He simply said Apple has faced the same kind of difficulty with it. Those Apple guys choose their words very carefully and I think this leaves the door wide open for a surprise, pretty soon.
Maybe he chose his words carefully or maybe he was simply making the same point and we're over-analyzing it.
Quote:
"I think it's important to realize that the technical challenges are not trivial putting that G5 in a PowerBook or anything else and not to expect a G5 anytime soon in a PowerBook -- certainly not before the end of the year," said Boger.
While Boger didn't give a timeframe for an iMac G5, he did say the company faced similar challenges getting a G5 to work with their consumer desktop.
"It's the same story -- the challenges are obvious when you look at the G5 and the size of the heatsinks and the enclosure; that would be a heck of a challenge as well."
In some ways, the phrase "that would be a heck of a challenge as well" makes it sound like they're not even trying. But anyway, I don't want to overanalyze it either. Clearly he was simply saying we shouldn't expect a G5 in anything else but a PowerMac for some time.
I just hope the G5-faithful are right and we get a G5 iMac soon. Maybe 1.4 GHz would work in a new hyperventilated iMac enclosure. Maybe something like an inverted collander.
I just hope the G5-faithful are right and we get a G5 iMac soon. Maybe 1.4 GHz would work in a new hyperventilated iMac enclosure. Maybe something like an inverted collander.
And with the liquid cooling, you could just through in raw spaghetti and in a few minutes, whalla - dinner.
Seriously, I am losing hope for a G5 in anything smaller than a PowerMac case. I mean, just look at the thing. 9 fans and liquid cooling are not there for looks.
No the iMac released at WWDC (and I still believe there will be something, based on the PowerMac8,1 kext info) will be something completely different. SMU_Neo2 rings new.
No the iMac released at WWDC (and I still believe there will be something, based on the PowerMac8,1 kext info) will be something completely different. SMU_Neo2 rings new.
However, why would Apple want to introduce a consumer-oriented produced during a geek-oriented conference? If they wanted to introduce an iMac speedbump (which is not the case because of the 8.1 number of the new thing), they would have introduced it silently, via a PR.
If they wanted to introduce an all-new iMac, they would have organised a posh party, a la iTMS.
Actually, I don't see new hardware coming at the WWDC, since it is not the purpose of this kind of events. Okay, the G5 was introduced during the WWDC, but there was no other alternative for Steve : the G5 introduced some architectural changes, so introducing it after the WWDC would have disappointed developers, and introducing them after the WWDC and putting conferences about the G5 during the event would have spoiled the whole Steve's "And one more thing..." thing!
Therefore, the next big thing from Apple (that Neo2 thing) MUST be something that introduces rather big architectural changes, but which will run Mac OS X (lite?), otherwise presenting it in front of developers would be irrelevant.
However, why would Apple want to introduce a consumer-oriented produced during a geek-oriented conference?
Besides the G5, they introduced the iSight last year. That's certainly a consumer-oriented product.
I don't really understand the aversion to the concept of introducing new products at WWDC. Yeah, it's a conference for geeks, but how long does the introduction take? 1 1/2 hours? The conference is going to last a week... It's not like they'd sacrifice more technical seminars for it.
Besides, while WWDC maybe for geeks, it's also a gathering of the faithfull-- and that's all Steve really needs.
However, why would Apple want to introduce a consumer-oriented produced during a geek-oriented conference?
Here is why. By doing so, Apple show to developers how serious they are about 64-bit hardware and software, which, for the time being, is restricted to very specialized applications, well beyond the realm of consumer world. It is pointless to offer 64-bit machines without appropriate software exploiting the underlying architecture. Except that this is the first step in providing the motives for developing 64-bit applications.
However, why would Apple want to introduce a consumer-oriented produced during a geek-oriented conference?
These are Mac developers. Anything good for the Mac platform is good news for these developers. It doesn't matter what kind of hardware, as long as it's good for the platform. It justifies their efforts.
Yeah I don't think who's attending the conference matters in the slightest, because when Jobs talks, it's not for the few hundred people there, it's for the press coverage he gets.
- uses liquid cooling (less fans = less noise) to allow it to handle the heat from G5........
You may be right and we may have seen the pictures of them already. People are assuming the alleged service manual pictures of the new G5's showed a machine the same size as the current G5 towers. Think smaller, think mini tower, think single processor, think I've lost my mind completely, now where is that prozac???
Therefore, the next big thing from Apple (that Neo2 thing) MUST be something that introduces rather big architectural changes, but which will run Mac OS X (lite?), otherwise presenting it in front of developers would be irrelevant.
I disagree -- Steve will show whatever he wants at WWDC. It is now their summer event, and captive audiences are captive audiences. The Neo2 thing you refer to isn't necessarily a "big architectural change". My guess it is a 1 FSB port system controller w/ integrated southbridge, fitted to a single processor G5 machine targeted at either the consumer or business market. Whether it is an iMac or Cube-reborn is yet-to-be-seen and will be Steve's big surprise. Personally I'd like to see the headless iMac with GPU on an AGP card and a 2 GHz 970FX for as low a price as Apple can possibly manage.
I disagree -- Steve will show whatever he wants at WWDC. It is now their summer event, and captive audiences are captive audiences. The Neo2 thing you refer to isn't necessarily a "big architectural change". My guess it is a 1 FSB port system controller w/ integrated southbridge, fitted to a single processor G5 machine targeted at either the consumer or business market. Whether it is an iMac or Cube-reborn is yet-to-be-seen and will be Steve's big surprise. Personally I'd like to see the headless iMac with GPU on an AGP card and a 2 GHz 970FX for as low a price as Apple can possibly manage.
Everything that I have seen says that the 8,1 ID points to a consumer desktop, i.e. iMac OR eMac. Now the G5 won't fit easily into the current iMac enclosure as has been stated by Apple and, therefore, one should not expect to see one anytime soon. However, could Apple fit a G5 into the current or a slightly modified eMac? I would think so, especially with lower clocked 970FX processors.
My prediction would be that we see a G5 eMac 1.4 and 1.6 (maybe 1.6 and 1.8) GHz single processor with FSB at half or a third of the processor speed, with 256MB RAM standard, 60 or 80GB drive, Superdrive at high end and CDRW at the low end, FW400, USB2, 17" (maybe 19" at high end with a better video card) CRT. Prices $999 at low end and $1299 at high end ($1499 with 19" CRT), I hope. The current G4 eMac could stay at the current lowest price or go down $50-100.
Well obviously I don't have inside info but what you describe should be exactly what Apple is working on at the moment. It is the only pratical way for Apple to address severla real issue they have with the IMac. The number one issue being cost and the number two issue being performance!
There is always the outside chance that this is a SOC G4 from Motorolas e600 library, but I'm betting against that. The reason to bet against such a chip is Apples need to get to 64 bits across the board.
Actually it would be neat if Apples first G5 "iMac" had a PCI-Express port and one of the new graphics cards in it. Having that hit the market in July would be awesome. I might even be willing to pay the current going rate for an iMac if it where so configured. Apple has to go PCI-Express sometime soon, it doesn't look like the Towere will be the first place this happens. This owuld be the ideal way to debut a new generation machine.
Thanks
dave
Quote:
Originally posted by Programmer
I disagree -- Steve will show whatever he wants at WWDC. It is now their summer event, and captive audiences are captive audiences. The Neo2 thing you refer to isn't necessarily a "big architectural change". My guess it is a 1 FSB port system controller w/ integrated southbridge, fitted to a single processor G5 machine targeted at either the consumer or business market. Whether it is an iMac or Cube-reborn is yet-to-be-seen and will be Steve's big surprise. Personally I'd like to see the headless iMac with GPU on an AGP card and a 2 GHz 970FX for as low a price as Apple can possibly manage.
Well obviously I don't have inside info but what you describe should be exactly what Apple is working on at the moment. It is the only pratical way for Apple to address severla real issue they have with the IMac. The number one issue being cost and the number two issue being performance!
There is always the outside chance that this is a SOC G4 from Motorolas e600 library, but I'm betting against that. The reason to bet against such a chip is Apples need to get to 64 bits across the board.
Actually it would be neat if Apples first G5 "iMac" had a PCI-Express port and one of the new graphics cards in it. Having that hit the market in July would be awesome. I might even be willing to pay the current going rate for an iMac if it where so configured. Apple has to go PCI-Express sometime soon, it doesn't look like the Towere will be the first place this happens. This owuld be the ideal way to debut a new generation machine.
Thanks
dave
Both ATI and Nvidia are designing PCI-E video cards that will make it easier to upgrade laptop and notebook computers. Since a lot of laptop technology makes it into the iMac, this would be a natural.
Well obviously I don't have inside info but what you describe should be exactly what Apple is working on at the moment. It is the only pratical way for Apple to address severla real issue they have with the IMac. The number one issue being cost and the number two issue being performance!
The biggest issue isn't price or performance - it's the resolution. You can get UXGA+ on a 15" gateway laptop for $999. That's 1400x1050 resolution for under a grand.
People are getting smart to the MHz myth, but when the screen feels cramped, it's tough to justify any price.
Try this - work at 800x600 for a week. If you're still sane, I'm wrong.
Now imagine switching from a gloriously huge resolution Windows box to a $1,300 15" iMac. Would you switch?
The issue is perceived value. People would pay more for a mac if they saw value. They'd pay to buy all new software if they saw value. The first part of a computer you encounter is the screen. That's where they lose the most customers. Low screen resolutions create a perception problem...
My prediction would be that we see a G5 eMac 1.4 and 1.6 (maybe 1.6 and 1.8) GHz single processor with FSB at half or a third of the processor speed, with 256MB RAM standard, 60 or 80GB drive, Superdrive at high end and CDRW at the low end, FW400, USB2, 17" (maybe 19" at high end with a better video card) CRT. Prices $999 at low end and $1299 at high end ($1499 with 19" CRT), I hope. The current G4 eMac could stay at the current lowest price or go down $50-100.
Yuck. The eMac is a fine computer and all, but it's not where the future is; at least I hope not.
Yuck. The eMac is a fine computer and all, but it's not where the future is; at least I hope not.
I must tell you this. I run several Mac labs at the college I work for and one of those labs has 1Ghz eMacs with 512 MB of ram in them. This lab is also used for two specific classes, and when I have to kick students out of that lab because of a class, they complain about having to leave.
That's not all, the adjacent room has PowerMac G4's that are older, but they do run well. The students prefer the eMacs to the older towers hands down. The college loves the eMacs because of the space savings and the ergonomics.
This is exactly the type of computers the college is moving to. Even on the PC side. This summer I will install three labs with a Gateway AIO that looks and works like a piece-o-sh!t, but the school wants that AIO form factor.
I think that the eMac, in time will gain a flat panel display, but not on an arm like it is now with the iMac, but with the bulk of the computer behind the display.
Comments
Originally posted by Rolo
The next iMac could very well have a 1.5 gig G4 in it.
I seriously doubt it. If that was the case, it'd be out already. It would be fairly simple for Apple to bump the speed to a 1.5 G4, add an 8X Superdrive and be done with it. Then the iMac wouldn't look quite so bad compared to the eMac. However, there's something better coming, I can feel it. 8)
Originally posted by BRussell
It's been 9 months (September 8, 2003) since the 15" and 17" were upgraded, which isn't so long that it must be something weird going on. And I take Boger's statement about the G5 being hard to get into PowerBooks and iMacs at face value. So now I'm looking for a revision of the iMac with faster G4s sometime in the next two weeks or so. Oh well.
Um, well, did you notice that he said we won't see a 3Ghz G5 anytime soon and we won't see a PowerBook G5 until at least the end of the year but he didn't say that about the iMac. He simply said Apple has faced the same kind of difficulty with it. Those Apple guys choose their words very carefully and I think this leaves the door wide open for a surprise, pretty soon.
Originally posted by iDave
Um, well, did you notice that he said we won't see a 3Ghz G5 anytime soon and we won't see a PowerBook G5 until at least the end of the year but he didn't say that about the iMac. He simply said Apple has faced the same kind of difficulty with it. Those Apple guys choose their words very carefully and I think this leaves the door wide open for a surprise, pretty soon.
My thoughts exactly
"I think it's important to realize that the technical challenges are not trivial putting that G5 in a PowerBook or anything else and not to expect a G5 anytime soon in a PowerBook -- certainly not before the end of the year," said Boger.
While Boger didn't give a timeframe for an iMac G5, he did say the company faced similar challenges getting a G5 to work with their consumer desktop.
"It's the same story -- the challenges are obvious when you look at the G5 and the size of the heatsinks and the enclosure; that would be a heck of a challenge as well."
In some ways, the phrase "that would be a heck of a challenge as well" makes it sound like they're not even trying. But anyway, I don't want to overanalyze it either. Clearly he was simply saying we shouldn't expect a G5 in anything else but a PowerMac for some time.
Originally posted by Rolo
I just hope the G5-faithful are right and we get a G5 iMac soon. Maybe 1.4 GHz would work in a new hyperventilated iMac enclosure. Maybe something like an inverted collander.
And with the liquid cooling, you could just through in raw spaghetti and in a few minutes, whalla - dinner.
Seriously, I am losing hope for a G5 in anything smaller than a PowerMac case. I mean, just look at the thing. 9 fans and liquid cooling are not there for looks.
No the iMac released at WWDC (and I still believe there will be something, based on the PowerMac8,1 kext info) will be something completely different. SMU_Neo2 rings new.
Originally posted by Rhumgod
No the iMac released at WWDC (and I still believe there will be something, based on the PowerMac8,1 kext info) will be something completely different. SMU_Neo2 rings new.
However, why would Apple want to introduce a consumer-oriented produced during a geek-oriented conference? If they wanted to introduce an iMac speedbump (which is not the case because of the 8.1 number of the new thing), they would have introduced it silently, via a PR.
If they wanted to introduce an all-new iMac, they would have organised a posh party, a la iTMS.
Actually, I don't see new hardware coming at the WWDC, since it is not the purpose of this kind of events. Okay, the G5 was introduced during the WWDC, but there was no other alternative for Steve : the G5 introduced some architectural changes, so introducing it after the WWDC would have disappointed developers, and introducing them after the WWDC and putting conferences about the G5 during the event would have spoiled the whole Steve's "And one more thing..." thing!
Therefore, the next big thing from Apple (that Neo2 thing) MUST be something that introduces rather big architectural changes, but which will run Mac OS X (lite?), otherwise presenting it in front of developers would be irrelevant.
However, why would Apple want to introduce a consumer-oriented produced during a geek-oriented conference?
Besides the G5, they introduced the iSight last year. That's certainly a consumer-oriented product.
I don't really understand the aversion to the concept of introducing new products at WWDC. Yeah, it's a conference for geeks, but how long does the introduction take? 1 1/2 hours? The conference is going to last a week... It's not like they'd sacrifice more technical seminars for it.
Besides, while WWDC maybe for geeks, it's also a gathering of the faithfull-- and that's all Steve really needs.
Originally posted by The One to Rescue
However, why would Apple want to introduce a consumer-oriented produced during a geek-oriented conference?
Here is why. By doing so, Apple show to developers how serious they are about 64-bit hardware and software, which, for the time being, is restricted to very specialized applications, well beyond the realm of consumer world. It is pointless to offer 64-bit machines without appropriate software exploiting the underlying architecture. Except that this is the first step in providing the motives for developing 64-bit applications.
Originally posted by The One to Rescue
However, why would Apple want to introduce a consumer-oriented produced during a geek-oriented conference?
These are Mac developers. Anything good for the Mac platform is good news for these developers. It doesn't matter what kind of hardware, as long as it's good for the platform. It justifies their efforts.
Originally posted by little mouse
.....
What I HOPE happens:
- New iMac design, takes out the powersupply
- takes on cubular shape for more space
- has G5's at 1.5, 1.7, 1.9
- uses liquid cooling (less fans = less noise) to allow it to handle the heat from G5........
You may be right and we may have seen the pictures of them already. People are assuming the alleged service manual pictures of the new G5's showed a machine the same size as the current G5 towers. Think smaller, think mini tower, think single processor, think I've lost my mind completely, now where is that prozac???
Originally posted by The One to Rescue
Therefore, the next big thing from Apple (that Neo2 thing) MUST be something that introduces rather big architectural changes, but which will run Mac OS X (lite?), otherwise presenting it in front of developers would be irrelevant.
I disagree -- Steve will show whatever he wants at WWDC. It is now their summer event, and captive audiences are captive audiences. The Neo2 thing you refer to isn't necessarily a "big architectural change". My guess it is a 1 FSB port system controller w/ integrated southbridge, fitted to a single processor G5 machine targeted at either the consumer or business market. Whether it is an iMac or Cube-reborn is yet-to-be-seen and will be Steve's big surprise. Personally I'd like to see the headless iMac with GPU on an AGP card and a 2 GHz 970FX for as low a price as Apple can possibly manage.
Originally posted by Programmer
I disagree -- Steve will show whatever he wants at WWDC. It is now their summer event, and captive audiences are captive audiences. The Neo2 thing you refer to isn't necessarily a "big architectural change". My guess it is a 1 FSB port system controller w/ integrated southbridge, fitted to a single processor G5 machine targeted at either the consumer or business market. Whether it is an iMac or Cube-reborn is yet-to-be-seen and will be Steve's big surprise. Personally I'd like to see the headless iMac with GPU on an AGP card and a 2 GHz 970FX for as low a price as Apple can possibly manage.
Everything that I have seen says that the 8,1 ID points to a consumer desktop, i.e. iMac OR eMac. Now the G5 won't fit easily into the current iMac enclosure as has been stated by Apple and, therefore, one should not expect to see one anytime soon. However, could Apple fit a G5 into the current or a slightly modified eMac? I would think so, especially with lower clocked 970FX processors.
My prediction would be that we see a G5 eMac 1.4 and 1.6 (maybe 1.6 and 1.8) GHz single processor with FSB at half or a third of the processor speed, with 256MB RAM standard, 60 or 80GB drive, Superdrive at high end and CDRW at the low end, FW400, USB2, 17" (maybe 19" at high end with a better video card) CRT. Prices $999 at low end and $1299 at high end ($1499 with 19" CRT), I hope. The current G4 eMac could stay at the current lowest price or go down $50-100.
Well obviously I don't have inside info but what you describe should be exactly what Apple is working on at the moment. It is the only pratical way for Apple to address severla real issue they have with the IMac. The number one issue being cost and the number two issue being performance!
There is always the outside chance that this is a SOC G4 from Motorolas e600 library, but I'm betting against that. The reason to bet against such a chip is Apples need to get to 64 bits across the board.
Actually it would be neat if Apples first G5 "iMac" had a PCI-Express port and one of the new graphics cards in it. Having that hit the market in July would be awesome. I might even be willing to pay the current going rate for an iMac if it where so configured. Apple has to go PCI-Express sometime soon, it doesn't look like the Towere will be the first place this happens. This owuld be the ideal way to debut a new generation machine.
Thanks
dave
Originally posted by Programmer
I disagree -- Steve will show whatever he wants at WWDC. It is now their summer event, and captive audiences are captive audiences. The Neo2 thing you refer to isn't necessarily a "big architectural change". My guess it is a 1 FSB port system controller w/ integrated southbridge, fitted to a single processor G5 machine targeted at either the consumer or business market. Whether it is an iMac or Cube-reborn is yet-to-be-seen and will be Steve's big surprise. Personally I'd like to see the headless iMac with GPU on an AGP card and a 2 GHz 970FX for as low a price as Apple can possibly manage.
Originally posted by wizard69
Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well obviously I don't have inside info but what you describe should be exactly what Apple is working on at the moment. It is the only pratical way for Apple to address severla real issue they have with the IMac. The number one issue being cost and the number two issue being performance!
There is always the outside chance that this is a SOC G4 from Motorolas e600 library, but I'm betting against that. The reason to bet against such a chip is Apples need to get to 64 bits across the board.
Actually it would be neat if Apples first G5 "iMac" had a PCI-Express port and one of the new graphics cards in it. Having that hit the market in July would be awesome. I might even be willing to pay the current going rate for an iMac if it where so configured. Apple has to go PCI-Express sometime soon, it doesn't look like the Towere will be the first place this happens. This owuld be the ideal way to debut a new generation machine.
Thanks
dave
Both ATI and Nvidia are designing PCI-E video cards that will make it easier to upgrade laptop and notebook computers. Since a lot of laptop technology makes it into the iMac, this would be a natural.
Originally posted by wizard69
Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well obviously I don't have inside info but what you describe should be exactly what Apple is working on at the moment. It is the only pratical way for Apple to address severla real issue they have with the IMac. The number one issue being cost and the number two issue being performance!
The biggest issue isn't price or performance - it's the resolution. You can get UXGA+ on a 15" gateway laptop for $999. That's 1400x1050 resolution for under a grand.
People are getting smart to the MHz myth, but when the screen feels cramped, it's tough to justify any price.
Try this - work at 800x600 for a week. If you're still sane, I'm wrong.
Now imagine switching from a gloriously huge resolution Windows box to a $1,300 15" iMac. Would you switch?
The issue is perceived value. People would pay more for a mac if they saw value. They'd pay to buy all new software if they saw value. The first part of a computer you encounter is the screen. That's where they lose the most customers. Low screen resolutions create a perception problem...
Originally posted by barbarella
My prediction would be that we see a G5 eMac 1.4 and 1.6 (maybe 1.6 and 1.8) GHz single processor with FSB at half or a third of the processor speed, with 256MB RAM standard, 60 or 80GB drive, Superdrive at high end and CDRW at the low end, FW400, USB2, 17" (maybe 19" at high end with a better video card) CRT. Prices $999 at low end and $1299 at high end ($1499 with 19" CRT), I hope. The current G4 eMac could stay at the current lowest price or go down $50-100.
Yuck. The eMac is a fine computer and all, but it's not where the future is; at least I hope not.
Originally posted by iDave
Yuck. The eMac is a fine computer and all, but it's not where the future is; at least I hope not.
I must tell you this. I run several Mac labs at the college I work for and one of those labs has 1Ghz eMacs with 512 MB of ram in them. This lab is also used for two specific classes, and when I have to kick students out of that lab because of a class, they complain about having to leave.
That's not all, the adjacent room has PowerMac G4's that are older, but they do run well. The students prefer the eMacs to the older towers hands down. The college loves the eMacs because of the space savings and the ergonomics.
This is exactly the type of computers the college is moving to. Even on the PC side. This summer I will install three labs with a Gateway AIO that looks and works like a piece-o-sh!t, but the school wants that AIO form factor.
I think that the eMac, in time will gain a flat panel display, but not on an arm like it is now with the iMac, but with the bulk of the computer behind the display.