Kinda like how, last year, they introduces the sleek Power Mac G5 with their dated displays?
I would love a new Cube, and I doubt they would even attempt another one without it having some killer features (G5). Pricing killed the last Cube and I'm sure Apple is aware of it.
Come through with another Cube (or other headless unit) Apple! Or I will just upgrade the bejesus out of my current one.
There is a difference between releasing displays only versus releasing the box, particularly at a conference such as WWDC, where you have a bunch of developers interested in developmental technologies. The wow factor is simply not there - you would probably see a lot of shoulder shrugging going on and then "what's next"?
Also, the displays compete asthetically with hundreds of others out there, and is somewhat ancilliary to the purchase. I say somewhat ancilliary, because as you rightly point out, there is currently a design mismatch between the display (plastic) and the Al Powermac case (and for that matter, the white plastic keyboard and black or white plastic mouse, the plastic self-adhesive stand on the iSight camera). Lots of Apple's customers (myself included) would like to have a very well matched system (including, dare I mention it, a BTO two or three button mouse designed by Apple).
There is a difference between releasing displays only versus releasing the box, particularly at a conference such as WWDC, where you have a bunch of developers interested in developmental technologies. The wow factor is simply not there - you would probably see a lot of shoulder shrugging going on and then "what's next"?
Lots of folks make comments such as this with which I completely disagree. The developers at WWDC develop for the Mac platform and as such are interested in what's new for the platform (i.e., Apple hardware and the OS). Any new developments of Apple hardware which might sell more Macs and more of their Mac software will be exciting news. Comments such as this suppose that developers are only interested in technical mumbo jumbo, or as you say, "developmental technologies" such as tweaks to the operating system and such. I believe this line of thinking is wrong. Sure, developers are principally there to learn about and discuss technical stuff, but introduction of new Apple hardware of any kind is a good way to start the conference.
Since a new line of Apple displays is long overdue, I suspect displays would be very well-received at WWDC. They'll help sell more of those 64 bit G5s for which developers are hankering to create applications.
but introduction of new Apple hardware of any kind is a good way to start the conference
Agreed that new hardware is a good way to kick-off a conference - my point is related to what gives the best impact. Take Airport Express as an example - this is a really innovative product that has numerous angles for developers, yet it was released unexpectedly literally out of left field. If it came down to a choice of talking about Airport Express or new displays at WWDC, I would take Airport Express to a developer's conference any day (unless of course the new displays break new barriers in innovation!)
Yeah, as a developer I could care less about new displays. Heck, I know how to buy 3rd party displays, and it doesn't bother me in the least if my monitor says Samsung or Sony on it. I want to know whether I should consider writing software for a Mac market that seems to be shrinking to a boutique niche of video and audio fans, especially if I have to use a language and development system (Cocoa and Xcode) that I can't use to develop for any other market.
It's really a wonder that anyone would even go to WWDC at all. I'm not.
... I want to know whether I should consider writing software for a Mac market that seems to be shrinking to a boutique niche of video and audio fans ...
How morose. \
Market share (NOT install base) has been shrinking, but I don't see things compressing down to a black hole. A blip on the radar. I was there when the BeOS went down. It was sad, but I can't see Apple doing so at this point. Perhaps during the mid 90's before Jobs came back, but not now.
It's time to break the monitor free. I have never purchased an iMac before because of this. Think about those people that buy a 20" iMac 10 days before a G5 iMac comes out. That would suck.
I just purchased a different monitor for my G4 tower. So far, I have been through 3 montitor with that computer. I sold one of the, moved other other to another computer.
I think when the original iMac came out, people needed the AIO. It was a way for everyone to get into computers. And they offered a unique way to do it on the color of your choice.
But today, I think the AIO is outdated. People are beyond that. Everyone can plug a monitor in. Everyone can handle it. It's time to move away from that.
I would love to see a complete line of monitors that go from affordable to HD for those who need it. A $699 17" flat panel with one input does not do it.
I really really hope that Apple kills off the iMac 2. It's time for a G5 mini in colors with 17" widescreen sold separately. Starting at $999 for the unit and $399 for the monitor, $299 if bought with a new G5 mini.
But then again, I've been saying that for over a year, and it hasn't happened.
I want to know whether I should consider writing software for a Mac market that seems to be shrinking to a boutique niche of video and audio fans, especially if I have to use a language and development system (Cocoa and Xcode) that I can't use to develop for any other market.
Your other option isn't any better. Develop a PC app and compete with 10x the companies you would find on Macintosh. What is being a small fish in a huge pond over being a small fish in a small pond? Either way is perilous; too much focus on the market and not enough on the product is a recipe for disaster.
Tak1108- Yes the iMac in it's AIO form need to go.
... What is being a small fish in a huge pond over being a small fish in a small pond? Either way is perilous; too much focus on the market and not enough on the product is a recipe for disaster. ...
Of course that's right. I wasn't describing the size of the market, but its nature. If Apple abandons the low-end "computer for the rest of us" notion and becomes only another SGI-like niche vendor, there's little point in writing anything for it except highly specialized audio/video production applications.
What saved the company was not the PowerMac, but the iMac.
And saving the company is not something you do once and then you're all done. Saving the company is something that has to happen again.
So it's been 10 months since the iMac line was updated. I'm assuming that if we don't see a 1.5 Ghz G4 iMac update on Tuesday the 22nd, it'll be updated at WWDC, which of course would mean a major update. So I'm hoping nothing happens Tuesday.
The developers at WWDC develop for the Mac platform and as such are interested in what's new for the platform (i.e., Apple hardware and the OS). Any new developments of Apple hardware which might sell more Macs and more of their Mac software will be exciting news.
Thank God somebody else realizes this. Anything that increases the size, viability or synergy of the Mac platform, hardware or software, pro or consumer is, by definition, of supreme interest to all Mac developers.
Plus, WWDC is now the new MWNY. It is Apple's major trade show of the summer and anything is fair game for announcement, just like iChat AV and the iSight were last year alongside the G5.
I'm in the camp that believes that if all the iMac was going to get is a bump, then it would have gotten it months ago, instead of enduring the humiliation of being outspec'd by the eMac. Apple does allow lines to overlap (the 466MHz iBook SE being a prime example, when the PowerBook was at 400 and 500MHz), but never for more than a few months.
Besides, the current iMac design is 2 years old. Apple has to sell it for $300 - 25% - over what it considers the "sweet spot" pricewise, for whatever reasons. And although it's selling OK, it's not lighting a fire under the industry the way the jellybean did. Signs point to a really new iMac.
It'll be an AIO. C'mon, guys, the "headless iMac" thing is as old as the iMac itself, and it's never come to fruition. The iMac is about absolute simplicity, it's about receding into the background until it's just you and the interface - and looking good doing it. Choice is only desirable if the default option sucks; what Apple does instead is plan the default configurations as carefully as it can so that you can find a machine that you're happy with, take it home, set it up, and be using it 10 minutes after you pull it out of the box. Sure, consumers can attach monitors - that's not the issue. The issue is, should they have to? Especially if it means giving up the ergonomics and flexibility of the current iMac's screen? Apple will offer a choice of monitors, anyway, they'll just have iMacs attached to them.
I'll be interested to see how they've solved the problem of the arm, or if they've just punted it and gone back to a more original-iMac-like design. I'm hoping for the former, because it really takes advantage of the AIO form, but then they know better than I what is and is not feasible at the prices they want to hit.
I'm sorta hoping that colors come back. The ruby iMac in the local bookstore is a guaranteed eye-catcher. It's just gorgeous. More of that, please.
it's a pain in the ass to think about..... maybe im just not creative enough but whenever i think what the next iMac could look like I cant see any way to make it include a display and look much different from the current or original designs.
design is always what made the iMac cool. The current design is long pass cool, yet somehow when I look at an original I still think it looks cool. I don't know why. The arm is cool but the base is just.....a blob. turns me off of the whole design.
and, lets see an end to white....please....colors....please
The iMac should have the same processor line up as the Power Macs. The iMac should be single processor with the same bus speed and processor speed as the Power Mac. That will give people a reason to purchase this machine as it restricts expandability.
Well Amoph, I think all of use hoping for a headless iMac are doing just that. We know that would be the absolute last thing to ever happen to the iMac line. The furtherest thing that could happen "out of left field" and the most unapplelike.
I'm a cube owner, so I'd love to see another computer to come out of Cupetino that style. Should it be an iMac? Not necessarily.
Colors would should be reinstated. The iPod comes only in white/chrome but the Mini is offered in an array of colors, foreshadowing? What ever happened to that Apple technology I heard a while back about color-shifting plastic?
The iMac should have the same processor line up as the Power Macs. The iMac should be single processor with the same bus speed and processor speed as the Power Mac. That will give people a reason to purchase this machine as it restricts expandability.
i don't think so. im a fan of the original one iMac line. One model, specced close to the low end tower and priced around 1299. Maybe one SE model with a larger screen and some other enhancements for 1499 or 1599
Anyone notice you can BTO an eMac or PowerMac with a Bluetooth module, wireless keyboard and wireless mouse for $99 now? Previously you had to order them in addition to the wired versions. I find it interesting that you cannot BTO an iMac like this. This is probably just because new models are being announced soon but I wonder, do you think Apple may include them as standard with the next iMacs? The iMac has already begun moving upmarket in the Cube's territory and would be ideal for this. Too high-end an option for the eMac to be standard while PowerMac users may not find it an ideal solution. But the iMac? It could work.
Of course, if they leave the iMacs as they are and just give them 1.5Ghz G4 speedbumps it could be used as a sales incentive.
Well, based on the current rumors, a totally redesigned G5 iMac could have specs like these:
17" or 20" models
Flat AIO design with vertical CPU mounted behind display
1.6 to 1.8 GHz G5
2 DIMM slots for DDR400 memory
800 or 900 MHz system bus
Vertical slot-loading SuperDrive, 8x DVD-R
AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth standard
Wireless KB & mouse
Display/CPU could be mounted on a detachable pedestal or used with an included stand or maybe with no stand at all like a tablet. Maybe it could be slim and trim and have an external power supply. Lots of possibilities.
Display/CPU could be mounted on a detachable pedestal or used with an included stand or maybe with no stand at all like a tablet. Maybe it could be slim and trim and have an external power supply. Lots of possibilities.
Although that's what the AppleInsider rumor sounds like, I sure as hell can't picture it. But assuming it's true, a kind of hybrid all-in-one would be very cool. You could basically treat it as an all-in-one, somehow combining the display with the CPU, but if you were cheap, you could stick your 7-year-old CRT monitor on it, and lay the iMac down like a pizza box.
I dunno. Jobs has this all-in-one pathology. I just don't see it happening. If there's any hint of truth in this AI rumor, it's going to be one interesting design.
I think if 1) iMac always means all-in-one, integrating with display, 2) AI is correct, this means what we will probably see is just a thicker LCD screen, just like eMac is a thicker CRT screen.
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
I dunno. Jobs has this all-in-one pathology. I just don't see it happening. If there's any hint of truth in this AI rumor, it's going to be one interesting design.
The current design just doesn't have the same level of cuteness (what other term is there for it?) of the old imac. The old imac just looks user friendly, its hard to explain, but for the old imac form follows function perfectly. So maybe something new from apple which really really follows function exactly. You didn't need to be told that the old imac was user friendly, it said that through its design.
Comments
Originally posted by IonYz
Kinda like how, last year, they introduces the sleek Power Mac G5 with their dated displays?
I would love a new Cube, and I doubt they would even attempt another one without it having some killer features (G5). Pricing killed the last Cube and I'm sure Apple is aware of it.
Come through with another Cube (or other headless unit) Apple! Or I will just upgrade the bejesus out of my current one.
There is a difference between releasing displays only versus releasing the box, particularly at a conference such as WWDC, where you have a bunch of developers interested in developmental technologies. The wow factor is simply not there - you would probably see a lot of shoulder shrugging going on and then "what's next"?
Also, the displays compete asthetically with hundreds of others out there, and is somewhat ancilliary to the purchase. I say somewhat ancilliary, because as you rightly point out, there is currently a design mismatch between the display (plastic) and the Al Powermac case (and for that matter, the white plastic keyboard and black or white plastic mouse, the plastic self-adhesive stand on the iSight camera). Lots of Apple's customers (myself included) would like to have a very well matched system (including, dare I mention it, a BTO two or three button mouse designed by Apple).
Originally posted by McCrab
There is a difference between releasing displays only versus releasing the box, particularly at a conference such as WWDC, where you have a bunch of developers interested in developmental technologies. The wow factor is simply not there - you would probably see a lot of shoulder shrugging going on and then "what's next"?
Lots of folks make comments such as this with which I completely disagree. The developers at WWDC develop for the Mac platform and as such are interested in what's new for the platform (i.e., Apple hardware and the OS). Any new developments of Apple hardware which might sell more Macs and more of their Mac software will be exciting news. Comments such as this suppose that developers are only interested in technical mumbo jumbo, or as you say, "developmental technologies" such as tweaks to the operating system and such. I believe this line of thinking is wrong. Sure, developers are principally there to learn about and discuss technical stuff, but introduction of new Apple hardware of any kind is a good way to start the conference.
Since a new line of Apple displays is long overdue, I suspect displays would be very well-received at WWDC. They'll help sell more of those 64 bit G5s for which developers are hankering to create applications.
(Sorry that this is off-topic.)
Originally posted by iDave
but introduction of new Apple hardware of any kind is a good way to start the conference
Agreed that new hardware is a good way to kick-off a conference - my point is related to what gives the best impact. Take Airport Express as an example - this is a really innovative product that has numerous angles for developers, yet it was released unexpectedly literally out of left field. If it came down to a choice of talking about Airport Express or new displays at WWDC, I would take Airport Express to a developer's conference any day (unless of course the new displays break new barriers in innovation!)
It's really a wonder that anyone would even go to WWDC at all. I'm not.
Originally posted by cubist
... I want to know whether I should consider writing software for a Mac market that seems to be shrinking to a boutique niche of video and audio fans ...
How morose.
Market share (NOT install base) has been shrinking, but I don't see things compressing down to a black hole. A blip on the radar. I was there when the BeOS went down. It was sad, but I can't see Apple doing so at this point. Perhaps during the mid 90's before Jobs came back, but not now.
I just purchased a different monitor for my G4 tower. So far, I have been through 3 montitor with that computer. I sold one of the, moved other other to another computer.
I think when the original iMac came out, people needed the AIO. It was a way for everyone to get into computers. And they offered a unique way to do it on the color of your choice.
But today, I think the AIO is outdated. People are beyond that. Everyone can plug a monitor in. Everyone can handle it. It's time to move away from that.
I would love to see a complete line of monitors that go from affordable to HD for those who need it. A $699 17" flat panel with one input does not do it.
I really really hope that Apple kills off the iMac 2. It's time for a G5 mini in colors with 17" widescreen sold separately. Starting at $999 for the unit and $399 for the monitor, $299 if bought with a new G5 mini.
But then again, I've been saying that for over a year, and it hasn't happened.
I want to know whether I should consider writing software for a Mac market that seems to be shrinking to a boutique niche of video and audio fans, especially if I have to use a language and development system (Cocoa and Xcode) that I can't use to develop for any other market.
Your other option isn't any better. Develop a PC app and compete with 10x the companies you would find on Macintosh. What is being a small fish in a huge pond over being a small fish in a small pond? Either way is perilous; too much focus on the market and not enough on the product is a recipe for disaster.
Tak1108- Yes the iMac in it's AIO form need to go.
Originally posted by hmurchison
... What is being a small fish in a huge pond over being a small fish in a small pond? Either way is perilous; too much focus on the market and not enough on the product is a recipe for disaster. ...
Of course that's right. I wasn't describing the size of the market, but its nature. If Apple abandons the low-end "computer for the rest of us" notion and becomes only another SGI-like niche vendor, there's little point in writing anything for it except highly specialized audio/video production applications.
What saved the company was not the PowerMac, but the iMac.
And saving the company is not something you do once and then you're all done. Saving the company is something that has to happen again.
Originally posted by iDave
The developers at WWDC develop for the Mac platform and as such are interested in what's new for the platform (i.e., Apple hardware and the OS). Any new developments of Apple hardware which might sell more Macs and more of their Mac software will be exciting news.
Thank God somebody else realizes this. Anything that increases the size, viability or synergy of the Mac platform, hardware or software, pro or consumer is, by definition, of supreme interest to all Mac developers.
Plus, WWDC is now the new MWNY. It is Apple's major trade show of the summer and anything is fair game for announcement, just like iChat AV and the iSight were last year alongside the G5.
Besides, the current iMac design is 2 years old. Apple has to sell it for $300 - 25% - over what it considers the "sweet spot" pricewise, for whatever reasons. And although it's selling OK, it's not lighting a fire under the industry the way the jellybean did. Signs point to a really new iMac.
It'll be an AIO. C'mon, guys, the "headless iMac" thing is as old as the iMac itself, and it's never come to fruition. The iMac is about absolute simplicity, it's about receding into the background until it's just you and the interface - and looking good doing it. Choice is only desirable if the default option sucks; what Apple does instead is plan the default configurations as carefully as it can so that you can find a machine that you're happy with, take it home, set it up, and be using it 10 minutes after you pull it out of the box. Sure, consumers can attach monitors - that's not the issue. The issue is, should they have to? Especially if it means giving up the ergonomics and flexibility of the current iMac's screen? Apple will offer a choice of monitors, anyway, they'll just have iMacs attached to them.
I'll be interested to see how they've solved the problem of the arm, or if they've just punted it and gone back to a more original-iMac-like design. I'm hoping for the former, because it really takes advantage of the AIO form, but then they know better than I what is and is not feasible at the prices they want to hit.
I'm sorta hoping that colors come back. The ruby iMac in the local bookstore is a guaranteed eye-catcher. It's just gorgeous. More of that, please.
design is always what made the iMac cool. The current design is long pass cool, yet somehow when I look at an original I still think it looks cool. I don't know why. The arm is cool but the base is just.....a blob. turns me off of the whole design.
and, lets see an end to white....please....colors....please
I'm a cube owner, so I'd love to see another computer to come out of Cupetino that style. Should it be an iMac? Not necessarily.
Colors would should be reinstated. The iPod comes only in white/chrome but the Mini is offered in an array of colors, foreshadowing? What ever happened to that Apple technology I heard a while back about color-shifting plastic?
Originally posted by talksense101
The iMac should have the same processor line up as the Power Macs. The iMac should be single processor with the same bus speed and processor speed as the Power Mac. That will give people a reason to purchase this machine as it restricts expandability.
i don't think so. im a fan of the original one iMac line. One model, specced close to the low end tower and priced around 1299. Maybe one SE model with a larger screen and some other enhancements for 1499 or 1599
Originally posted by TWinbrook46636
Anyone notice you can BTO an eMac or PowerMac with a Bluetooth module, wireless keyboard and wireless mouse for $99 now? Previously you had to order them in addition to the wired versions. I find it interesting that you cannot BTO an iMac like this. This is probably just because new models are being announced soon but I wonder, do you think Apple may include them as standard with the next iMacs? The iMac has already begun moving upmarket in the Cube's territory and would be ideal for this. Too high-end an option for the eMac to be standard while PowerMac users may not find it an ideal solution. But the iMac? It could work.
Of course, if they leave the iMacs as they are and just give them 1.5Ghz G4 speedbumps it could be used as a sales incentive.
Hey now! There are hints to be found.
17" or 20" models
Flat AIO design with vertical CPU mounted behind display
1.6 to 1.8 GHz G5
2 DIMM slots for DDR400 memory
800 or 900 MHz system bus
Vertical slot-loading SuperDrive, 8x DVD-R
AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth standard
Wireless KB & mouse
Display/CPU could be mounted on a detachable pedestal or used with an included stand or maybe with no stand at all like a tablet. Maybe it could be slim and trim and have an external power supply. Lots of possibilities.
Originally posted by Rolo
Display/CPU could be mounted on a detachable pedestal or used with an included stand or maybe with no stand at all like a tablet. Maybe it could be slim and trim and have an external power supply. Lots of possibilities.
Although that's what the AppleInsider rumor sounds like, I sure as hell can't picture it. But assuming it's true, a kind of hybrid all-in-one would be very cool. You could basically treat it as an all-in-one, somehow combining the display with the CPU, but if you were cheap, you could stick your 7-year-old CRT monitor on it, and lay the iMac down like a pizza box.
I dunno. Jobs has this all-in-one pathology. I just don't see it happening. If there's any hint of truth in this AI rumor, it's going to be one interesting design.
Originally posted by BRussell
I dunno. Jobs has this all-in-one pathology. I just don't see it happening. If there's any hint of truth in this AI rumor, it's going to be one interesting design.