And Amorph is dead on, as usual: Win95, 98, ME, etc didn't exactly have a memory model that was compatible with OS9, so they had to port the OS9 memory management system over lock stock and barrel.
Now, with OS X and WinXP having much closer memory models, an OSX native QT7 would map much more closely to WinXP, eliminating the need to port the cruft over.
Voila, one clean codebase with minimal underlying platform dependent tweaks. (Oh, and guess what - it'd port really easily to Linux too...)
btw last time I looked Sat transponder time on C band was only $18,000 an hour so they can probably afford it
Oh yeah. Compared to streaming solutions we've looked at, $18K is cheap. I'm holding out on a late announcement on the sat coords though. [crosses fingers]
And Amorph is dead on, as usual: Win95, 98, ME, etc didn't exactly have a memory model that was compatible with OS9, so they had to port the OS9 memory management system over lock stock and barrel.
Now, with OS X and WinXP having much closer memory models, an OSX native QT7 would map much more closely to WinXP, eliminating the need to port the cruft over.
Voila, one clean codebase with minimal underlying platform dependent tweaks. (Oh, and guess what - it'd port really easily to Linux too...)
i think this is a GREAT point...Apple could really benefit from a strong port of QT to linux. (as could linux users) If QT7 is in fact what we all think and want it to be, I would not be surprised at all if WWDC included an introduction to QT for linux. That could really be a nail in the coffin for WM, and another move to help unite the clans against the evil empire...or something.
apple has already made small steps towards making *nixers happy, like including a full dev suite, apache, X11 and POSIX, etc. Now if they released QT for linux, including the QT dev packages, I can see a lot of people getting excited.
WWDC is a paid-event that developers pay up to thousands to attend. The Keynote is one of the highlights... they've gotta give the poor devs *something* to make them feel special.
Unless something major happens, the keynote will be broadcast taped after it is over.
XCode 1.5 is the most important part of WWDC hands down. People keep missing this announcement and keep focusing on hardware... remember last year how a lot of hardware announcements happened around the month of june... but only 2 happened at WWDC... 2 that really surrounded developers. I wouldn't be the least bit suprised if jobs didn't announce any hardware, except maybe a g5 iMac to show developers that apple is serious about 64bit programming. All these mac users seem to think now (because of last years WWDC) that it is another Macworld, IT ISN'T! This is for D.E.V.E.L.O.P.E.R.S!
QuickTime 7 is important and most definitely will be announced. All these products are for different events for apple... how about SIGRAPH!? They always announce products there, How about Paris Mac World!? They usually announce a thing or 2 there. Or gee, how about do what they have been doing, and announce a product whenever they feel like it. Jobs admitted last year they are trying to get away from big even announcements because it ties them down to only a few places a year to announce. A video device has NO interest to developers unless it has an SDK to go with it.
I'm going to WWDC, I would seriously be pissed if all apple did was announce hardware at the keynote. I am a developer, I don't pay all of the money to go there just to hear apple talk about hardware. After each developer paying 1,600 door charge, they don't want to waste their time with what apple can do on any day of the week. An announcement of Tiger, XCode 1.5, Quicktime 7, maybe an iMac g5 and displays. Perhaps even an iPod, but that is stretching it.
I will demand my money back if all apple talks about is hardware announcements at WWDC.
Quote:
Originally posted by kormac77
To DaveGee:
QuickTime7 is THE most important part of this WWDC.
And it is the key part of New Service.
And the new hareware is the key for new service too.
This is 20th anniversary of Mac and Apple will do their best to give a good time for the new way of Mac.
XCode 1.5 is the most important part of WWDC hands down. People keep missing this announcement and keep focusing on hardware... remember last year how a lot of hardware announcements happened around the month of june... but only 2 happened at WWDC... 2 that really surrounded developers. I wouldn't be the least bit suprised if jobs didn't announce any hardware, except maybe a g5 iMac to show developers that apple is serious about 64bit programming. All these mac users seem to think now (because of last years WWDC) that it is another Macworld, IT ISN'T! This is for D.E.V.E.L.O.P.E.R.S!
QuickTime 7 is important and most definitely will be announced. All these products are for different events for apple... how about SIGRAPH!? They always announce products there, How about Paris Mac World!? They usually announce a thing or 2 there. Or gee, how about do what they have been doing, and announce a product whenever they feel like it. Jobs admitted last year they are trying to get away from big even announcements because it ties them down to only a few places a year to announce. A video device has NO interest to developers unless it has an SDK to go with it.
I'm going to WWDC, I would seriously be pissed if all apple did was announce hardware at the keynote. I am a developer, I don't pay all of the money to go there just to hear apple talk about hardware. After each developer paying 1,600 door charge, they don't want to waste their time with what apple can do on any day of the week. An announcement of Tiger, XCode 1.5, Quicktime 7, maybe an iMac g5 and displays. Perhaps even an iPod, but that is stretching it.
I will demand my money back if all apple talks about is hardware announcements at WWDC.
emig, i don't think the Keynote is the key part of WWDC as far as developers are concerned, but all the confrences. the keynote of course shuold touch on developers, but also on Apple as a company and it's direction, meaning products
emig, i don't think the Keynote is the key part of WWDC as far as developers are concerned, but all the confrences. the keynote of course shuold touch on developers, but also on Apple as a company and it's direction, meaning products
Exactly, the keynote is more of a 'state of the mac' and pep talk. Yes we all know what the "D" stands for in WWDC. But the "D" doesn't preclude hardware announcements...
All these mac users seem to think now (because of last years WWDC) that it is another Macworld, IT ISN'T! This is for D.E.V.E.L.O.P.E.R.S!
No Stevenote today is about only the people in the room. It's about positioning Apple in the industry and the world. The Stevenote is Apple's way of saying that it is still viable, that there's a future for the platform and that the future is exciting. Steve is the one person who can do that, so he is going to talk about all the good news he can muster - hardware, software, music store downloads, iPod sales. ALL of those things are of interest to developers because they prove that Apple is still going to exist in six months.
It's not a coding workshop, and Avie Tevanian isn't giving the keynote. It's a revival meeting. Steve has understood that for years.
emig, i don't think the Keynote is the key part of WWDC as far as developers are concerned, but all the confrences. the keynote of course shuold touch on developers, but also on Apple as a company and it's direction, meaning products
You're right it isn't, but completely ignoring what developers are there for (and the ones that basically funded the whole thing) is not the way WWDC works.
I'm not disagreeing that announcing exciting news is great. But to spend the whole time announcing new hardware isn't what the keynote has or ever will be about. I was mainly referring to all the people debating the video part of this thread and Kormac77's announcement list. It isn't going to happen at WWDC. Look at Sigraph... not here for this announcement if it happens.
Yes things developers care about will be announced. But why would a movie store matter?
Get what I'm saying? They need to talk about SOMETHING that is about development. IE XCode... Kormac didn't even mention XCode.
It's not a coding workshop, and Avie Tevanian isn't giving the keynote. It's a revival meeting. Steve has understood that for years.
Uh that's exactly what WWDC is... a coding workshop. That's why the developers pay 1600 dollars for a ticket. To learn new technologies on apple hardware.
I'm not denying that the keynote is a "revival meeting", it is. But again, announce something that has to do with developers, don't spend the whole time talking about hardware. That isn't what the devs are there for.
emig, i don't think the Keynote is the key part of WWDC as far as developers are concerned, but all the confrences. the keynote of course shuold touch on developers, but also on Apple as a company and it's direction, meaning products
apple has already made small steps towards making *nixers happy, like including a full dev suite, apache, X11 and POSIX, etc. Now if they released QT for linux, including the QT dev packages, I can see a lot of people getting excited.
As Kickaha (or someone else) said, a huge chunk of the Classic Mac OS is stuck in QT itself to make it cross platform. They should be able to make this speculative new version of QT far less redundant, far more portable and platform agnostic -- and consider how good a lot of these former NeXT people are at exactly that. Apple can demonstrate how to make *good* cross-platform frameworks for developers like Adobe.
Yes things developers care about will be announced. But why would a movie store matter?
Get what I'm saying? They need to talk about SOMETHING that is about development. IE XCode... Kormac didn't even mention XCode.
QuickTime is of especially keen interest to developers, and if anything, a new, overhauled QuickTime would bring more cheers than a new Xcode. There are alternatives to Xcode, but currently QuickTime is the only game around and it's an understatement to say that dealing with it is... unpleasant.
But QT is much more than a developer's tool. Yes, developers will care about it. But the difference between QT and Xcode is that Xcode is merely a tool; QT is a platform. It's a platform that can be deployed across various operating systems, and any number of devices. A Java-enabled QT can only make this more true. Consider the newest foothold Linux has gained: Smartphones, which overwhelmingly run Java as well. A QT which runs quick and lean on OS X, Windows XP, Linux, smartphones, cameras, etc. is rich with long-term implications in a way that no other Apple technology can claim. This is even more true when you consider that MS has been weakest in challenging QuickTime, and also in moving into the handheld space.
Fortunately, Apple has one team on Xcode and another on QT, so it's not going to be one or the other. Also, an all-new QT will necessarily go through a long beta phase, and it might even require revisions at the kernel level, whereas a new Xcode could be released at WWDC. (And personally, I hope so, because I've stuck with Project Builder up to this point: I've been waiting for Xcode to stop being so flaky.)
QT is the key to alot of Apple's future in ALL platforms: Windows, Linux, phones Palm? .... WinCE? .... iTunes is a great example of a cross-platform, on-the-web interface, but it isn't the creation to delivery app that will be required by DEVELOPERS for the digital hub.
As a matter of fact if the keynote is just on QT and one new hardware device, I'd be very happy .... okay, Xcode update is important too.
I wasn't saying QT wasn't important... I was saying video hardware that everyone keeps talking about would be.
Although I didn't realize how important QT was or could be. That is extremely interesting and I'm sure a lot of developers would be interested in it... I mean pretty much all thursday and friday is stuff like that.
I just wanted to illustrate that XCode is important. Right now apple is getting their ass kicked by everyone as far as IDEs. Add some damn code sense to Objective-C... its time, its not hard. I have heard rumors that it will be in 1.5... but we'll see. I know Microsoft charges for their IDE but VS6 and VS.net blow XCode away...
My only point was they need to talk about something "developerish"... if they ignored that completely, it would be a slap in the face.
My only point was they need to talk about something "developerish"... if they ignored that completely, it would be a slap in the face.
The WWDC keynote isn't, and has never been, explicitly "developerish".
This is true for nearly any convention, conference or tradeshow. Keynotes typically address the big picture, with visionary speakers talking about the near and distant future. They are typically fun and relatively uninformative. Sometimes they serve merely as entertaining icebreakers. Rarely do they have technical speakers who address directly any of the topics covered in the smaller seminars or talks.
The WWDC keynote isn't, and has never been, explicitly "developerish".
This is true for nearly any convention, conference or tradeshow. Keynotes typically address the big picture, with visionary speakers talking about the near and distant future. They are typically fun and relatively uninformative. Sometimes they serve merely as entertaining icebreakers. Rarely do they have technical speakers who address directly any of the topics covered in the smaller seminars or talks.
Obviously you weren't at WWDC in 01... 100% strictly development.
My only point was they need to talk about something "developerish"... if they ignored that completely, it would be a slap in the face.
Is the preview of Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger not "developerish" enough? Any other introductions and demonstrations -- software or hardware -- will be frosting on the flakes...
Comments
Now, with OS X and WinXP having much closer memory models, an OSX native QT7 would map much more closely to WinXP, eliminating the need to port the cruft over.
Voila, one clean codebase with minimal underlying platform dependent tweaks. (Oh, and guess what - it'd port really easily to Linux too...)
Originally posted by snipe
btw last time I looked Sat transponder time on C band was only $18,000 an hour so they can probably afford it
Oh yeah. Compared to streaming solutions we've looked at, $18K is cheap. I'm holding out on a late announcement on the sat coords though. [crosses fingers]
Originally posted by Kickaha
And Amorph is dead on, as usual: Win95, 98, ME, etc didn't exactly have a memory model that was compatible with OS9, so they had to port the OS9 memory management system over lock stock and barrel.
Now, with OS X and WinXP having much closer memory models, an OSX native QT7 would map much more closely to WinXP, eliminating the need to port the cruft over.
Voila, one clean codebase with minimal underlying platform dependent tweaks. (Oh, and guess what - it'd port really easily to Linux too...)
i think this is a GREAT point...Apple could really benefit from a strong port of QT to linux. (as could linux users) If QT7 is in fact what we all think and want it to be, I would not be surprised at all if WWDC included an introduction to QT for linux. That could really be a nail in the coffin for WM, and another move to help unite the clans against the evil empire...or something.
apple has already made small steps towards making *nixers happy, like including a full dev suite, apache, X11 and POSIX, etc. Now if they released QT for linux, including the QT dev packages, I can see a lot of people getting excited.
my2cents...
WWDC is a paid-event that developers pay up to thousands to attend. The Keynote is one of the highlights... they've gotta give the poor devs *something* to make them feel special.
Unless something major happens, the keynote will be broadcast taped after it is over.
XCode 1.5 is the most important part of WWDC hands down. People keep missing this announcement and keep focusing on hardware... remember last year how a lot of hardware announcements happened around the month of june... but only 2 happened at WWDC... 2 that really surrounded developers. I wouldn't be the least bit suprised if jobs didn't announce any hardware, except maybe a g5 iMac to show developers that apple is serious about 64bit programming. All these mac users seem to think now (because of last years WWDC) that it is another Macworld, IT ISN'T! This is for D.E.V.E.L.O.P.E.R.S!
QuickTime 7 is important and most definitely will be announced. All these products are for different events for apple... how about SIGRAPH!? They always announce products there, How about Paris Mac World!? They usually announce a thing or 2 there. Or gee, how about do what they have been doing, and announce a product whenever they feel like it. Jobs admitted last year they are trying to get away from big even announcements because it ties them down to only a few places a year to announce. A video device has NO interest to developers unless it has an SDK to go with it.
I'm going to WWDC, I would seriously be pissed if all apple did was announce hardware at the keynote. I am a developer, I don't pay all of the money to go there just to hear apple talk about hardware. After each developer paying 1,600 door charge, they don't want to waste their time with what apple can do on any day of the week. An announcement of Tiger, XCode 1.5, Quicktime 7, maybe an iMac g5 and displays. Perhaps even an iPod, but that is stretching it.
I will demand my money back if all apple talks about is hardware announcements at WWDC.
Originally posted by kormac77
To DaveGee:
QuickTime7 is THE most important part of this WWDC.
And it is the key part of New Service.
And the new hareware is the key for new service too.
This is 20th anniversary of Mac and Apple will do their best to give a good time for the new way of Mac.
QT7 will be the most important piece to Apple for the next few years of strategy in the marketplace.
Originally posted by emig647
No.
XCode 1.5 is the most important part of WWDC hands down. People keep missing this announcement and keep focusing on hardware... remember last year how a lot of hardware announcements happened around the month of june... but only 2 happened at WWDC... 2 that really surrounded developers. I wouldn't be the least bit suprised if jobs didn't announce any hardware, except maybe a g5 iMac to show developers that apple is serious about 64bit programming. All these mac users seem to think now (because of last years WWDC) that it is another Macworld, IT ISN'T! This is for D.E.V.E.L.O.P.E.R.S!
QuickTime 7 is important and most definitely will be announced. All these products are for different events for apple... how about SIGRAPH!? They always announce products there, How about Paris Mac World!? They usually announce a thing or 2 there. Or gee, how about do what they have been doing, and announce a product whenever they feel like it. Jobs admitted last year they are trying to get away from big even announcements because it ties them down to only a few places a year to announce. A video device has NO interest to developers unless it has an SDK to go with it.
I'm going to WWDC, I would seriously be pissed if all apple did was announce hardware at the keynote. I am a developer, I don't pay all of the money to go there just to hear apple talk about hardware. After each developer paying 1,600 door charge, they don't want to waste their time with what apple can do on any day of the week. An announcement of Tiger, XCode 1.5, Quicktime 7, maybe an iMac g5 and displays. Perhaps even an iPod, but that is stretching it.
I will demand my money back if all apple talks about is hardware announcements at WWDC.
emig, i don't think the Keynote is the key part of WWDC as far as developers are concerned, but all the confrences. the keynote of course shuold touch on developers, but also on Apple as a company and it's direction, meaning products
Originally posted by Odedh
emig, i don't think the Keynote is the key part of WWDC as far as developers are concerned, but all the confrences. the keynote of course shuold touch on developers, but also on Apple as a company and it's direction, meaning products
Exactly, the keynote is more of a 'state of the mac' and pep talk. Yes we all know what the "D" stands for in WWDC.
Originally posted by emig647
All these mac users seem to think now (because of last years WWDC) that it is another Macworld, IT ISN'T! This is for D.E.V.E.L.O.P.E.R.S!
No Stevenote today is about only the people in the room. It's about positioning Apple in the industry and the world. The Stevenote is Apple's way of saying that it is still viable, that there's a future for the platform and that the future is exciting. Steve is the one person who can do that, so he is going to talk about all the good news he can muster - hardware, software, music store downloads, iPod sales. ALL of those things are of interest to developers because they prove that Apple is still going to exist in six months.
It's not a coding workshop, and Avie Tevanian isn't giving the keynote. It's a revival meeting. Steve has understood that for years.
Originally posted by Odedh
emig, i don't think the Keynote is the key part of WWDC as far as developers are concerned, but all the confrences. the keynote of course shuold touch on developers, but also on Apple as a company and it's direction, meaning products
You're right it isn't, but completely ignoring what developers are there for (and the ones that basically funded the whole thing) is not the way WWDC works.
I'm not disagreeing that announcing exciting news is great. But to spend the whole time announcing new hardware isn't what the keynote has or ever will be about. I was mainly referring to all the people debating the video part of this thread and Kormac77's announcement list. It isn't going to happen at WWDC. Look at Sigraph... not here for this announcement if it happens.
Yes things developers care about will be announced. But why would a movie store matter?
Get what I'm saying? They need to talk about SOMETHING that is about development. IE XCode... Kormac didn't even mention XCode.
Originally posted by BrunoBruin
It's not a coding workshop, and Avie Tevanian isn't giving the keynote. It's a revival meeting. Steve has understood that for years.
Uh that's exactly what WWDC is... a coding workshop. That's why the developers pay 1600 dollars for a ticket. To learn new technologies on apple hardware.
I'm not denying that the keynote is a "revival meeting", it is. But again, announce something that has to do with developers, don't spend the whole time talking about hardware. That isn't what the devs are there for.
Originally posted by Odedh
emig, i don't think the Keynote is the key part of WWDC as far as developers are concerned, but all the confrences. the keynote of course shuold touch on developers, but also on Apple as a company and it's direction, meaning products
Exactly.
Originally posted by concentricity
apple has already made small steps towards making *nixers happy, like including a full dev suite, apache, X11 and POSIX, etc. Now if they released QT for linux, including the QT dev packages, I can see a lot of people getting excited.
As Kickaha (or someone else) said, a huge chunk of the Classic Mac OS is stuck in QT itself to make it cross platform. They should be able to make this speculative new version of QT far less redundant, far more portable and platform agnostic -- and consider how good a lot of these former NeXT people are at exactly that. Apple can demonstrate how to make *good* cross-platform frameworks for developers like Adobe.
Originally posted by emig647
Yes things developers care about will be announced. But why would a movie store matter?
Get what I'm saying? They need to talk about SOMETHING that is about development. IE XCode... Kormac didn't even mention XCode.
QuickTime is of especially keen interest to developers, and if anything, a new, overhauled QuickTime would bring more cheers than a new Xcode. There are alternatives to Xcode, but currently QuickTime is the only game around and it's an understatement to say that dealing with it is... unpleasant.
But QT is much more than a developer's tool. Yes, developers will care about it. But the difference between QT and Xcode is that Xcode is merely a tool; QT is a platform. It's a platform that can be deployed across various operating systems, and any number of devices. A Java-enabled QT can only make this more true. Consider the newest foothold Linux has gained: Smartphones, which overwhelmingly run Java as well. A QT which runs quick and lean on OS X, Windows XP, Linux, smartphones, cameras, etc. is rich with long-term implications in a way that no other Apple technology can claim. This is even more true when you consider that MS has been weakest in challenging QuickTime, and also in moving into the handheld space.
Fortunately, Apple has one team on Xcode and another on QT, so it's not going to be one or the other. Also, an all-new QT will necessarily go through a long beta phase, and it might even require revisions at the kernel level, whereas a new Xcode could be released at WWDC. (And personally, I hope so, because I've stuck with Project Builder up to this point: I've been waiting for Xcode to stop being so flaky.)
QT is the key to alot of Apple's future in ALL platforms: Windows, Linux, phones Palm? .... WinCE? .... iTunes is a great example of a cross-platform, on-the-web interface, but it isn't the creation to delivery app that will be required by DEVELOPERS for the digital hub.
As a matter of fact if the keynote is just on QT and one new hardware device, I'd be very happy .... okay, Xcode update is important too.
Go kormac.
Although I didn't realize how important QT was or could be. That is extremely interesting and I'm sure a lot of developers would be interested in it... I mean pretty much all thursday and friday is stuff like that.
I just wanted to illustrate that XCode is important. Right now apple is getting their ass kicked by everyone as far as IDEs. Add some damn code sense to Objective-C... its time, its not hard. I have heard rumors that it will be in 1.5... but we'll see. I know Microsoft charges for their IDE but VS6 and VS.net blow XCode away...
My only point was they need to talk about something "developerish"... if they ignored that completely, it would be a slap in the face.
Originally posted by emig647
My only point was they need to talk about something "developerish"... if they ignored that completely, it would be a slap in the face.
The WWDC keynote isn't, and has never been, explicitly "developerish".
This is true for nearly any convention, conference or tradeshow. Keynotes typically address the big picture, with visionary speakers talking about the near and distant future. They are typically fun and relatively uninformative. Sometimes they serve merely as entertaining icebreakers. Rarely do they have technical speakers who address directly any of the topics covered in the smaller seminars or talks.
Originally posted by dfiler
The WWDC keynote isn't, and has never been, explicitly "developerish".
This is true for nearly any convention, conference or tradeshow. Keynotes typically address the big picture, with visionary speakers talking about the near and distant future. They are typically fun and relatively uninformative. Sometimes they serve merely as entertaining icebreakers. Rarely do they have technical speakers who address directly any of the topics covered in the smaller seminars or talks.
Obviously you weren't at WWDC in 01... 100% strictly development.
Originally posted by emig647
Obviously you weren't at WWDC in 01... 100% strictly development.
I guess the announcement and release of an all LCD display line-up was 100% strictly development
Originally posted by emig647
My only point was they need to talk about something "developerish"... if they ignored that completely, it would be a slap in the face.
Is the preview of Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger not "developerish" enough? Any other introductions and demonstrations -- software or hardware -- will be frosting on the flakes...
Escher