For some who see this thread ignoring Xcode and such stems from the fact that this is the Future Hardware Forum.
One thing that I am getting from a lot of these great posts is that we are understandibly thinking about Apple's future and the coming "convergence" from the point of view of the computer. As Macheads we actually enjoy the computing experience and the UI of doing, working, communicating and being entertained on the Mac. Yet most non-geeks in the Windows world don't feel that way once the eyecandy and saturated colors of WinXP has worn off.
The real driving force of convergence is probably not going to come from the computing public, but from the consuming public ... this is an American industry after all.
It is the iPod that drives convergence, not OSX, no matter how cool we think it is - Expose to Unix.
I have come to think that Apple will not get back to over 10% of the market with OSX or G5's ... unless Tiger is eons ahead of what we can do now. Where Apple can add marketshare and do so exponentially, is to support and innovate the framework of OS agnostic hardware and software.
Content creators, science and education (Apples best markets) will always need the latest and greatest and the OS and G5's will evolve plenty fast to keep them a leader there and with us who want to play with the technology ... or at least play UnReal at fast frame-rates.
But the DEVELOPERS of the future want to know that Apple will be working more and more on "computation" outside the PC. That is where Apple can beat MSoftie. Apple can emulate Sony, better than MS+Intel+Dell will ever be able to. The best example of this is the HP iPod!!
Sony itself is kind of stuck between the two worlds of computing and consumer electronics with a hybridized though quite successful strategy of straddling the fence. Apple by contrast is building a gate (or rather a number of gates) between the two sides of the fence. Each gate is a solution/codec between the Mac and the periferals: QT, iTunes, FireWire, Airport Express, and hopefully more.
In the Digital Hub view of things, the hub is the pc/Mac and the spokes are the periferal devices. If you look at any wheel, though the hub supports the spokes, but it is the latter out on the rim that makes you move! The continued evolution of the iPod will drive the Mac development. iPod users will be making the decisions, not the Mac or PC users. The future digital devices will drive the OS. The iPod buyers will dictate the convergence, not the PC buyers. That is the flaw in Microsofts paradigm. That is why the MS tablets and such keep stalling, when the Palm, Walkmans and iPods thrive.
So for me WWDC and the future of Apple related to Future Hardware will entail hopefully some of what kormac predicts, but as importantly I hope we are given a glimpse into the big picture strategy that Apple sees in using the spokes to guide the hub rather than the hub dictating to the spokes.
Look at the PC model. When it first started the PC was strictly a business computer. As business people started buying the PC (or more exactly the IBM units) they found themselves in the home and in the business schools. Gamers as gamers often do wrote games for the PC and the MAC. The mac games were superior originally because of the Mac's superior graphics engine. When the MS/intel/ibm saturation reached a certain point the only choice in the home was a windows pc (computers were 1000+ 10 years ago!) Mac was still a superior product but was double the price. I remember that an apple laser printer was 5k.
Apple is still superior the OS but not so much in the hardware. Yes, it has the quality and the form factor advantage, but that is not going to keep it in the black forever. The ipod a runaway hit will in the long term bring people to the mac. Not now but in a few years when they use the wonderful itunes program and see the apple logo in their face running on windows. Then they switch programs in windows and the whole thing crashes or hangs.
Yes sure you can play more games on the pc platform. Apple must embrace gaming. Gaming drives the market They demand frame rates and large numbers of polygons. The gpu of today is a direct offshoot of the gaming revolution.
Also, remember that gaming is a huge business. Get the gamers to develop for the apple subsidize a really cool video game or a mmrpg on apple servers as a demonstrator and you will have a nail in the coffin of windows. Kids will scream for macs to play the newest coolest games (and me too!!)
apple hardware improves apple dominates the desktop and the networked distributed computing home.
Also Steve J. please give me an apple smartphone. It is another good way for people to see the apple logo every day 20 times a day and love it!!
Yes, you can do both, and "Brand identity" is important. My point is that Apple already has brand identity and that identity will not change for people who already have their computers. There will be incremental growth from switchers who actually decide to change "brands" but the real growth and market will come from NEW brands, like the iPod. The iPod is successful, because it is a great integrated product, not because of the Apple brand on the front.
You can do both and Apple will, but the growth will come from the new brands, not the Mac itself.
The real driving force of convergence is probably not going to come from the computing public, but from the consuming public ... this is an American industry after all.
It is the iPod that drives convergence, not OSX, no matter how cool we think it is - Expose to Unix.
What sound reasoning, MacGregor!
I dearly love OS X and my iBook (soon to be 12-inch PowerBook). But I also have a Wintel box sitting under my desk. Both systems run QuickTime and iTunes, and will soon stream music to an AirPort Express. I can read the same websites and edit the same Word documents with both too. I vastly prefer OS X's unobtrusive interface, but I can live with Windows as well.
QuickTime would not be a sucess story if it were not cross-platform. Neither would iTunes nor the iPod. The future is platform agnostic. Nonetheless, there is no doubt in my mind that I will choose the superior integration and ease of use of Apple hardware and Mac OS X for my personal needs for as long as they are available.
Quote:
Originally posted by TednDi
Also Steve J. please give me an apple smartphone. It is another good way for people to see the apple logo every day 20 times a day and love it!!
TednDi: It's a shame that Steve Jobs has specifically denied that Apple would ship a smartphone (at the WSJ's All Things Digital conference a few weeks ago). I'll be looking at a Treo Ace (finally with Bluetooth and transflective 320x320 screen) instead this fall.
TednDi: It's a shame that Steve Jobs has specifically denied that Apple would ship a smartphone (at the WSJ's All Things Digital conference a few weeks ago). I'll be looking at a Treo Ace (finally with Bluetooth and transflective 320x320 screen) instead this fall.
Escher [/B][/QUOTE]
I know, but i still want one. How about someone else running OS X lite on the phone under license??
What do you see 'OS X Lite' doing that say, embedded Linux with a decent GUI couldn't?
Seriously.
What would get left *out* to make it 'Lite' enough to be doable on a phone? At which point, what would remain to make it 'OS X'?
Actually you are right.
Problem is I am not a software designer. I am a business owner who was forced for 10 years to use windows and who constantly suffers from the failings of hardware designers. I used mac's for years before the switch to the dark side I am back and as such really don't like inferior platforms. I was an early adopter of the palm platform but that OS is from 1990 (grafitti is worn)
What I would like from apple is a seamless integration with my phone. Bluetooth synching (have now with other sources) voice over ip switching (good for road and home) remote log into any apple computer with all my prefs through .mac if required. Any place I am my office is.
What I want is a secure reliable smartphone that allows me to access my apple products and incorporates the things i use most. Pda light (functions with online instant update)
Good quality (aluminum?)handset and the ipod/itunes integration so I don't have to carry my ipod around to business meetins. just an unobrusive wireless headphone.
That's what I want. What I am going to receive in the market is another matter. What I expect from the market is poor integration shoddy reception, locked phone (no carrier switching), eternally slow start up times and a camera that I don't need. all for the price of 500 bux
so, given the fact that apple could sell a product that most people in the developed world may be able to use (with gsm coverage) and continue to use if unlocked. A wonderful mythical device that could play the vast amounts of mp3's I own and still seamlessly take a phone call. A device that can remember my calendar and keep it updated as my wife adds something on my .mac account. And also keep updated all of my desktop and mobile contacts for my trips away from the office.
That's what I want all without proprietary software that makes it difficult to move my data to my device and from my device. (I owned a palm powered bluetooth wifi sony clie which though nice was still the 3rd thing in my pocket after the phone and the ipod.
...and a camera that I don't need. all for the price of 500 bux
If Apple makes a phone, it will definitely have a camera, so Steve could say how it could seamlessly export photos over bluetooth into your iPhoto library.
If Apple makes a phone, it will definitely have a camera, so Steve could say how it could seamlessly export photos over bluetooth into your iPhoto library.
at that point steve will be smart enough to make it 3mp insted of the >1mp crap they stuff in the phones now.
What I want is a secure reliable smartphone that allows me to access my apple products and incorporates the things i use most. Pda light (functions with online instant update)
We haven't talked about over-the-air (OTA) synchronization in quite a while. Didn't Think Secret write that OTA would be included in a revision of iSync sometime last year? Our very own Harald certainly did. But we're still waiting. Using iSync when you're at home via Bluetooth or USB is nice. But it would be 100% cooler if you could iSync via a cellular (GSM or CDMA) network when you are on the road without your 'Book.
With the upcoming version 4 of Mark/Space's Missing Sync, which includes Wi-Fi sync, maybe we'll see all that via a 3rd party solution and the new Treo. It's just a matter of time, but the wait is getting long...
if they add the better handwriting recognition of the ipaq into a palm device then OK. we are 14 years down the road with the old graffitti engine. can't we have better handwriting recognition.
a small keyboard and size of the mini ipod would be nice. perhaps a slim clamshell.
Then again perhaps they are working on a cell phone?
There will never be an Apple phone I can promise you that (makes no business sense) but the software driving the phone, that's a different matter. Think Quicktime, think Java (as alluded to earlier in this thread)
There is chance that APPLE will not introduce new iMac and iProject at WWDC but might have special announcement at July 6th.
The focus of WWDC will be development and OS X 10.4. If APPLE feel that the focus has been shifed too much for New iMac, they will select date later than WWDC.
However, APPLE has shown first iMac at WWDC and Apple might do as planned. It is upto SJ's decision.
If this happen, SJ will announce the date at WWDC keynote.
There is chance that APPLE will not introduce new iMac and iProject at WWDC but might have special announcement at July 6th.
The focus of WWDC will be development and OS X 10.4. If APPLE feel that the focus has been shifed too much for New iMac, they will select date later than WWDC.
However, APPLE has shown first iMac at WWDC and Apple might do as planned. It is upto SJ's decision.
If this happen, SJ will announce the date at WWDC keynote.
There is chance that APPLE will not introduce new iMac and iProject at WWDC but might have special announcement at July 6th.
The focus of WWDC will be development and OS X 10.4. If APPLE feel that the focus has been shifed too much for New iMac, they will select date later than WWDC.
However, APPLE has shown first iMac at WWDC and Apple might do as planned. It is upto SJ's decision.
If this happen, SJ will announce the date at WWDC keynote.
That is for now. See ya later.
The rumor mill is a bitch!
Don't stop Kormac! APPLE (as you like to cap it) is a tough nut to crack.
There is chance that APPLE will not introduce new iMac and iProject at WWDC but might have special announcement at July 6th.
The focus of WWDC will be development and OS X 10.4. If APPLE feel that the focus has been shifed too much for New iMac, they will select date later than WWDC.
However, APPLE has shown first iMac at WWDC and Apple might do as planned. It is upto SJ's decision.
If this happen, SJ will announce the date at WWDC keynote.
That is for now. See ya later.
I suggest that there will be no major hardware announcements on Monday
as it does not make any sense not to have a major media event. SJ is one
of the few people on the planet who beckons the press and they cannot get
there fast enough.....What is hard to figure out is why he is doing the keynote
without live QT stream or sat feed if there is important CONSUMER news or product(s). As for the July 6 Kormac, why wait an extra week just to have it posted on Apple web site? Would not July 14 (Apple quarterly earnings report) be a better choice? Apple stock is at a 4 year high and there will be lots of press on that date
We haven't talked about over-the-air (OTA) synchronization in quite a while. Didn't Think Secret write that OTA would be included in a revision of iSync sometime last year? Our very own Harald certainly did. But we're still waiting. Using iSync when you're at home via Bluetooth or USB is nice. But it would be 100% cooler if you could iSync via a cellular (GSM or CDMA) network when you are on the road without your 'Book.
No idea what the hell happened there. This wasn't a feature of iSync so much as .Mac by the way. My gut feeling is that this function was deemed just the wrong side of what the public wants, similar to the design decisions behind PC-centric music management for the iPod, and canned when the iPhone bit the dust.
so maybe not a full fledged video ipod, but an ipod that can store and output video while still maintaining its main function as a music player? Sounds like using QT as an os would make that possible.
But how would one get the content from the ipod to the screen? Wireless, mini dvi adapter, future revision of airport express?
And the only problem i see with that is the wear and tear it would put on the ipod. Those drives aren't made to be continually running.
Comments
One thing that I am getting from a lot of these great posts is that we are understandibly thinking about Apple's future and the coming "convergence" from the point of view of the computer. As Macheads we actually enjoy the computing experience and the UI of doing, working, communicating and being entertained on the Mac. Yet most non-geeks in the Windows world don't feel that way once the eyecandy and saturated colors of WinXP has worn off.
The real driving force of convergence is probably not going to come from the computing public, but from the consuming public ... this is an American industry after all.
It is the iPod that drives convergence, not OSX, no matter how cool we think it is - Expose to Unix.
I have come to think that Apple will not get back to over 10% of the market with OSX or G5's ... unless Tiger is eons ahead of what we can do now. Where Apple can add marketshare and do so exponentially, is to support and innovate the framework of OS agnostic hardware and software.
Content creators, science and education (Apples best markets) will always need the latest and greatest and the OS and G5's will evolve plenty fast to keep them a leader there and with us who want to play with the technology ... or at least play UnReal at fast frame-rates.
But the DEVELOPERS of the future want to know that Apple will be working more and more on "computation" outside the PC. That is where Apple can beat MSoftie. Apple can emulate Sony, better than MS+Intel+Dell will ever be able to. The best example of this is the HP iPod!!
Sony itself is kind of stuck between the two worlds of computing and consumer electronics with a hybridized though quite successful strategy of straddling the fence. Apple by contrast is building a gate (or rather a number of gates) between the two sides of the fence. Each gate is a solution/codec between the Mac and the periferals: QT, iTunes, FireWire, Airport Express, and hopefully more.
In the Digital Hub view of things, the hub is the pc/Mac and the spokes are the periferal devices. If you look at any wheel, though the hub supports the spokes, but it is the latter out on the rim that makes you move! The continued evolution of the iPod will drive the Mac development. iPod users will be making the decisions, not the Mac or PC users. The future digital devices will drive the OS. The iPod buyers will dictate the convergence, not the PC buyers. That is the flaw in Microsofts paradigm. That is why the MS tablets and such keep stalling, when the Palm, Walkmans and iPods thrive.
So for me WWDC and the future of Apple related to Future Hardware will entail hopefully some of what kormac predicts, but as importantly I hope we are given a glimpse into the big picture strategy that Apple sees in using the spokes to guide the hub rather than the hub dictating to the spokes.
Look at the PC model. When it first started the PC was strictly a business computer. As business people started buying the PC (or more exactly the IBM units) they found themselves in the home and in the business schools. Gamers as gamers often do wrote games for the PC and the MAC. The mac games were superior originally because of the Mac's superior graphics engine. When the MS/intel/ibm saturation reached a certain point the only choice in the home was a windows pc (computers were 1000+ 10 years ago!) Mac was still a superior product but was double the price. I remember that an apple laser printer was 5k.
Apple is still superior the OS but not so much in the hardware. Yes, it has the quality and the form factor advantage, but that is not going to keep it in the black forever. The ipod a runaway hit will in the long term bring people to the mac. Not now but in a few years when they use the wonderful itunes program and see the apple logo in their face running on windows. Then they switch programs in windows and the whole thing crashes or hangs.
Yes sure you can play more games on the pc platform. Apple must embrace gaming. Gaming drives the market They demand frame rates and large numbers of polygons. The gpu of today is a direct offshoot of the gaming revolution.
Also, remember that gaming is a huge business. Get the gamers to develop for the apple subsidize a really cool video game or a mmrpg on apple servers as a demonstrator and you will have a nail in the coffin of windows. Kids will scream for macs to play the newest coolest games (and me too!!)
apple hardware improves apple dominates the desktop and the networked distributed computing home.
Also Steve J. please give me an apple smartphone. It is another good way for people to see the apple logo every day 20 times a day and love it!!
Brand identity!!
oh and let the phone be UNLOCKED!! please!!
Originally posted by TednDi
you can do both well.
Look at the PC model.
Brand identity!!
Yes, you can do both, and "Brand identity" is important. My point is that Apple already has brand identity and that identity will not change for people who already have their computers. There will be incremental growth from switchers who actually decide to change "brands" but the real growth and market will come from NEW brands, like the iPod. The iPod is successful, because it is a great integrated product, not because of the Apple brand on the front.
You can do both and Apple will, but the growth will come from the new brands, not the Mac itself.
Originally posted by MacGregor
The real driving force of convergence is probably not going to come from the computing public, but from the consuming public ... this is an American industry after all.
It is the iPod that drives convergence, not OSX, no matter how cool we think it is - Expose to Unix.
What sound reasoning, MacGregor!
I dearly love OS X and my iBook (soon to be 12-inch PowerBook). But I also have a Wintel box sitting under my desk. Both systems run QuickTime and iTunes, and will soon stream music to an AirPort Express. I can read the same websites and edit the same Word documents with both too. I vastly prefer OS X's unobtrusive interface, but I can live with Windows as well.
QuickTime would not be a sucess story if it were not cross-platform. Neither would iTunes nor the iPod. The future is platform agnostic. Nonetheless, there is no doubt in my mind that I will choose the superior integration and ease of use of Apple hardware and Mac OS X for my personal needs for as long as they are available.
Originally posted by TednDi
Also Steve J. please give me an apple smartphone. It is another good way for people to see the apple logo every day 20 times a day and love it!!
TednDi: It's a shame that Steve Jobs has specifically denied that Apple would ship a smartphone (at the WSJ's All Things Digital conference a few weeks ago). I'll be looking at a Treo Ace (finally with Bluetooth and transflective 320x320 screen) instead this fall.
Escher
Escher [/B][/QUOTE]
I know, but i still want one. How about someone else running OS X lite on the phone under license??
Sony?
What do you see 'OS X Lite' doing that say, embedded Linux with a decent GUI couldn't?
Seriously.
What would get left *out* to make it 'Lite' enough to be doable on a phone? At which point, what would remain to make it 'OS X'?
Originally posted by Kickaha
Why?
What do you see 'OS X Lite' doing that say, embedded Linux with a decent GUI couldn't?
Seriously.
What would get left *out* to make it 'Lite' enough to be doable on a phone? At which point, what would remain to make it 'OS X'?
Actually you are right.
Problem is I am not a software designer. I am a business owner who was forced for 10 years to use windows and who constantly suffers from the failings of hardware designers. I used mac's for years before the switch to the dark side I am back and as such really don't like inferior platforms. I was an early adopter of the palm platform but that OS is from 1990 (grafitti is worn)
What I would like from apple is a seamless integration with my phone. Bluetooth synching (have now with other sources) voice over ip switching (good for road and home) remote log into any apple computer with all my prefs through .mac if required. Any place I am my office is.
What I want is a secure reliable smartphone that allows me to access my apple products and incorporates the things i use most. Pda light (functions with online instant update)
Good quality (aluminum?)handset and the ipod/itunes integration so I don't have to carry my ipod around to business meetins. just an unobrusive wireless headphone.
That's what I want. What I am going to receive in the market is another matter. What I expect from the market is poor integration shoddy reception, locked phone (no carrier switching), eternally slow start up times and a camera that I don't need. all for the price of 500 bux
so, given the fact that apple could sell a product that most people in the developed world may be able to use (with gsm coverage) and continue to use if unlocked. A wonderful mythical device that could play the vast amounts of mp3's I own and still seamlessly take a phone call. A device that can remember my calendar and keep it updated as my wife adds something on my .mac account. And also keep updated all of my desktop and mobile contacts for my trips away from the office.
That's what I want all without proprietary software that makes it difficult to move my data to my device and from my device. (I owned a palm powered bluetooth wifi sony clie which though nice was still the 3rd thing in my pocket after the phone and the ipod.
Originally posted by TednDi
...and a camera that I don't need. all for the price of 500 bux
If Apple makes a phone, it will definitely have a camera, so Steve could say how it could seamlessly export photos over bluetooth into your iPhoto library.
Originally posted by SS3 GokouX
If Apple makes a phone, it will definitely have a camera, so Steve could say how it could seamlessly export photos over bluetooth into your iPhoto library.
at that point steve will be smart enough to make it 3mp insted of the >1mp crap they stuff in the phones now.
Originally posted by TednDi
What I want is a secure reliable smartphone that allows me to access my apple products and incorporates the things i use most. Pda light (functions with online instant update)
We haven't talked about over-the-air (OTA) synchronization in quite a while. Didn't Think Secret write that OTA would be included in a revision of iSync sometime last year? Our very own Harald certainly did. But we're still waiting. Using iSync when you're at home via Bluetooth or USB is nice. But it would be 100% cooler if you could iSync via a cellular (GSM or CDMA) network when you are on the road without your 'Book.
With the upcoming version 4 of Mark/Space's Missing Sync, which includes Wi-Fi sync, maybe we'll see all that via a 3rd party solution and the new Treo. It's just a matter of time, but the wait is getting long...
Escher
a small keyboard and size of the mini ipod would be nice. perhaps a slim clamshell.
Then again perhaps they are working on a cell phone?
http://www.etaiwannews.com/Business/...1075949225.htm
The focus of WWDC will be development and OS X 10.4. If APPLE feel that the focus has been shifed too much for New iMac, they will select date later than WWDC.
However, APPLE has shown first iMac at WWDC and Apple might do as planned. It is upto SJ's decision.
If this happen, SJ will announce the date at WWDC keynote.
That is for now. See ya later.
Originally posted by kormac77
There is chance that APPLE will not introduce new iMac and iProject at WWDC but might have special announcement at July 6th.
The focus of WWDC will be development and OS X 10.4. If APPLE feel that the focus has been shifed too much for New iMac, they will select date later than WWDC.
However, APPLE has shown first iMac at WWDC and Apple might do as planned. It is upto SJ's decision.
If this happen, SJ will announce the date at WWDC keynote.
That is for now. See ya later.
http://home.att.net/~badkarma11/wsb/...0/site1012.gif
Originally posted by kormac77
There is chance that APPLE will not introduce new iMac and iProject at WWDC but might have special announcement at July 6th.
The focus of WWDC will be development and OS X 10.4. If APPLE feel that the focus has been shifed too much for New iMac, they will select date later than WWDC.
However, APPLE has shown first iMac at WWDC and Apple might do as planned. It is upto SJ's decision.
If this happen, SJ will announce the date at WWDC keynote.
That is for now. See ya later.
The rumor mill is a bitch!
Don't stop Kormac! APPLE (as you like to cap it) is a tough nut to crack.
Originally posted by kormac77
There is chance that APPLE will not introduce new iMac and iProject at WWDC but might have special announcement at July 6th.
The focus of WWDC will be development and OS X 10.4. If APPLE feel that the focus has been shifed too much for New iMac, they will select date later than WWDC.
However, APPLE has shown first iMac at WWDC and Apple might do as planned. It is upto SJ's decision.
If this happen, SJ will announce the date at WWDC keynote.
That is for now. See ya later.
I suggest that there will be no major hardware announcements on Monday
as it does not make any sense not to have a major media event. SJ is one
of the few people on the planet who beckons the press and they cannot get
there fast enough.....What is hard to figure out is why he is doing the keynote
without live QT stream or sat feed if there is important CONSUMER news or product(s). As for the July 6 Kormac, why wait an extra week just to have it posted on Apple web site? Would not July 14 (Apple quarterly earnings report) be a better choice? Apple stock is at a 4 year high and there will be lots of press on that date
Originally posted by kormac77
There is chance that APPLE will not introduce new iMac and iProject at WWDC...
Funny how Kormac waits for the Think Secret article to come out before backpedaling on his iMac prediction.
Originally posted by Escher
We haven't talked about over-the-air (OTA) synchronization in quite a while. Didn't Think Secret write that OTA would be included in a revision of iSync sometime last year? Our very own Harald certainly did. But we're still waiting. Using iSync when you're at home via Bluetooth or USB is nice. But it would be 100% cooler if you could iSync via a cellular (GSM or CDMA) network when you are on the road without your 'Book.
No idea what the hell happened there. This wasn't a feature of iSync so much as .Mac by the way. My gut feeling is that this function was deemed just the wrong side of what the public wants, similar to the design decisions behind PC-centric music management for the iPod, and canned when the iPhone bit the dust.
But how would one get the content from the ipod to the screen? Wireless, mini dvi adapter, future revision of airport express?
And the only problem i see with that is the wear and tear it would put on the ipod. Those drives aren't made to be continually running.