if your talking games and 3d apps etc... no fancy software tricks can really substitute the raw power of a graphics card on this level.
Incorrect. NVidia has released driver updates which are so efficient they speed up the card's ability by up to 30%.
Software optimization is key. This is what made CISC slower than RISC per Hertz back in the day--RISC had widely used functions written out before hand, shortening the instructions sent to the processor by the OS... And we all know how much that sped them up!
It can help, but games (such as Doom 3) rely on massive fillrates to achieve their effects. That is something software cannot improve.
There really is no excuse of justification for the crappy card in iMac. It's Apple cutting costs, that's it. It's hard to believe that they couldn't have put a Radeon 9700 or 9700 in the 20".
Even that is barely good enough. I wouldn't buy such a slow card now for my PC. I had to turn Doom 3 way down to get it to run well enough. ('HIGH' detail, 1280x1024, no anisotropic, no anti-aliasing... framerate 30fps ish). Not what I am used to!
Incorrect. NVidia has released driver updates which are so efficient they speed up the card's ability by up to 30%.
You are correct, but in the cards range. It's all relative. A crap card wont all of a sudden become amazing card with a driver update. It will be better but not run Doom3 at 1600x1200.
Although on the other hand we never get good driver optimization on the mac side, usually the cards run much slower than if they were in a pc.
Some say the picture quality is worse then OpenGL though...
I always felt Open GL looked better.
Dx always looked 'card boardy' to me.
I noticed it when Unreal Tourney first came out. The GL seemed to look way better...richer than M$'s cardboard X.
Things are probably different now...?
As for the Crapfx card in the iMac?
Well, you can run Nanosaur II at iMac's highest res' in full 32 bit. Okay. Smooth enough. But it'll get eaten alive by Doom III.
I don't think even the next rev' to the iMac will change it either.
Unless Apple included the impressive Geforce 6600GT. An excellent card for price. This is the card to partner an iMac.
And with the Nvidia GT coming to the Mac early Nov' then who's to say that the 6600 GT isn't coming too?
Stick 2 gigs of ram in your iMac G5 and you'll have a nice work machine. It's not a PowerMac on benches...but it's still a leap over G4 iMac. The real problem (aside from the crapfx...) is the 256 megs of ram. The machine quickly chokes if you open several apps...
Yea, I upped my 20" iMac up to 2GB from the stock 256MB and it definitely was faster. I couldn't even run Nanosaur at full resolution with only 256MB without the iMac choking (stuttering graphics, sound stutters as well). Once I upped it to 2GB, Nanosaur was smooth as butter.
Once I upped it to 2GB, Nanosaur was smooth as butter.
Great. Could you post here the frame rates you obtain? If I am not mistaken, hiting F8 in this game will reveal you the frames per second. Can you too try some of the older demanding games, like RtCW for example (at native resolution, if it is still playable)? Somewhere in the preferences of this game, you can set up a key of your choice to bring up the frame rates when hit.
Great. Could you post here the frame rates you obtain? If I am not mistaken, hiting F8 in this game will reveal you the frames per second. Can you too try some of the older demanding games, like RtCW for example (at native resolution, if it is still playable)? Somewhere in the preferences of this game, you can set up a key of your choice to bring up the frame rates when hit.
If I remember I'll go ahead and do a frame rate test in Nanosaur. I don't own RtCW so I can't test it for you.
Anyone who thinks they will have a good gaming experience with a imac and Doom3 is either drunk as a skunk or higher then kite. CPU is to slow and the GPU Fx5200 is cheap crap. enough said. now back to that Doom3 on my AMD3500+ and 6800GT. Its tough playing with everything on but someone's got to do it.
The most amusing thing I find about this thread is how so many people are concerned about how well the iMac will be able to handle a pile of steaming excrement.
Great. Could you post here the frame rates you obtain? If I am not mistaken, hiting F8 in this game will reveal you the frames per second. Can you too try some of the older demanding games, like RtCW for example (at native resolution, if it is still playable)? Somewhere in the preferences of this game, you can set up a key of your choice to bring up the frame rates when hit.
I got roughly 60 frames/sec in Nanosaur at the highest settings. I'll check RtCW demo framerates soon.
Anyone who thinks they will have a good gaming experience with a imac and Doom3 is either drunk as a skunk or higher then kite. CPU is to slow and the GPU Fx5200 is cheap crap. enough said. now back to that Doom3 on my AMD3500+ and 6800GT. Its tough playing with everything on but someone's got to do it.
And you know that a 3500+ doesnt actually run at 3500 mhz??? Depending on the exact model it is around 2200 mhz, not much better than the imac's 1800. I found some spec numbers, and the 1800 g5 compares to a 2400 p4 on integer, and 3400 p4 for floating point. Seeings as games are pretty dependant on floating point these days the 1800 should be a fine cpu.
Anyone who thinks they will have a good gaming experience with a imac and Doom3 is either drunk as a skunk or higher then kite. CPU is to slow and the GPU Fx5200 is cheap crap. enough said. now back to that Doom3 on my AMD3500+ and 6800GT. Its tough playing with everything on but someone's got to do it.
You tease.
But you're right.
:P
Lemon Bon Bon
Rev B with 1.8-2.3 gig G5s and a better graphics card eg GT 6600 and it would be a terrific machine...in 2D AND 3D!
Anyone who thinks they will have a good gaming experience with a imac and Doom3 is either drunk as a skunk or higher then kite. CPU is to slow and the GPU Fx5200 is cheap crap.
After upgrading my RAM from 256MB to 512MB, I'd be inclined to postulate that the base 256MB of RAM could be a main problem for Doom 3 on the iMac. (Doesn't stop the 5200 being the next problem ).
Anyway, I'm waiting until someone makes a game with it.
Comments
Originally posted by Ti Fighter
if your talking games and 3d apps etc... no fancy software tricks can really substitute the raw power of a graphics card on this level.
Incorrect. NVidia has released driver updates which are so efficient they speed up the card's ability by up to 30%.
Software optimization is key. This is what made CISC slower than RISC per Hertz back in the day--RISC had widely used functions written out before hand, shortening the instructions sent to the processor by the OS... And we all know how much that sped them up!
Originally posted by slughead
Software optimization is key.
It can help, but games (such as Doom 3) rely on massive fillrates to achieve their effects. That is something software cannot improve.
There really is no excuse of justification for the crappy card in iMac. It's Apple cutting costs, that's it. It's hard to believe that they couldn't have put a Radeon 9700 or 9700 in the 20".
Even that is barely good enough. I wouldn't buy such a slow card now for my PC. I had to turn Doom 3 way down to get it to run well enough. ('HIGH' detail, 1280x1024, no anisotropic, no anti-aliasing... framerate 30fps ish). Not what I am used to!
Originally posted by slughead
Incorrect. NVidia has released driver updates which are so efficient they speed up the card's ability by up to 30%.
You are correct, but in the cards range. It's all relative. A crap card wont all of a sudden become amazing card with a driver update. It will be better but not run Doom3 at 1600x1200.
Although on the other hand we never get good driver optimization on the mac side, usually the cards run much slower than if they were in a pc.
http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews...22_132909.html
Some say the picture quality is worse then OpenGL though...
I always felt Open GL looked better.
Dx always looked 'card boardy' to me.
I noticed it when Unreal Tourney first came out. The GL seemed to look way better...richer than M$'s cardboard X.
Things are probably different now...?
As for the Crapfx card in the iMac?
Well, you can run Nanosaur II at iMac's highest res' in full 32 bit. Okay. Smooth enough. But it'll get eaten alive by Doom III.
I don't think even the next rev' to the iMac will change it either.
Unless Apple included the impressive Geforce 6600GT. An excellent card for price. This is the card to partner an iMac.
And with the Nvidia GT coming to the Mac early Nov' then who's to say that the 6600 GT isn't coming too?
Stick 2 gigs of ram in your iMac G5 and you'll have a nice work machine. It's not a PowerMac on benches...but it's still a leap over G4 iMac. The real problem (aside from the crapfx...) is the 256 megs of ram. The machine quickly chokes if you open several apps...
Lemon Bon Bon
Lemon Bon Bon
Originally posted by PBG4 Dude
Once I upped it to 2GB, Nanosaur was smooth as butter.
Great. Could you post here the frame rates you obtain? If I am not mistaken, hiting F8 in this game will reveal you the frames per second. Can you too try some of the older demanding games, like RtCW for example (at native resolution, if it is still playable)? Somewhere in the preferences of this game, you can set up a key of your choice to bring up the frame rates when hit.
Originally posted by PB
Great. Could you post here the frame rates you obtain? If I am not mistaken, hiting F8 in this game will reveal you the frames per second. Can you too try some of the older demanding games, like RtCW for example (at native resolution, if it is still playable)? Somewhere in the preferences of this game, you can set up a key of your choice to bring up the frame rates when hit.
If I remember I'll go ahead and do a frame rate test in Nanosaur. I don't own RtCW so I can't test it for you.
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
I always felt Open GL looked better.
Dx always looked 'card boardy' to me.
I noticed it when Unreal Tourney first came out. The GL seemed to look way better...richer than M$'s cardboard X.
Things are probably different now...?
I think you are just comparing the looks of different engines.
DX and OGL will render whatever you tell them to, all they are is APIs which feed instructions to the GPU.
Take a look at Half Life 2, that's running on Direct X 9c, and is certainly a pretty game. Or Far Cry, which is also DX9.
Originally posted by PBG4 Dude
I don't own RtCW so I can't test it for you.
Yes, you can. You can always download the demo, unless you are under dialup internet.
Originally posted by PB
Great. Could you post here the frame rates you obtain? If I am not mistaken, hiting F8 in this game will reveal you the frames per second. Can you too try some of the older demanding games, like RtCW for example (at native resolution, if it is still playable)? Somewhere in the preferences of this game, you can set up a key of your choice to bring up the frame rates when hit.
I got roughly 60 frames/sec in Nanosaur at the highest settings. I'll check RtCW demo framerates soon.
Originally posted by Aurora
Anyone who thinks they will have a good gaming experience with a imac and Doom3 is either drunk as a skunk or higher then kite. CPU is to slow and the GPU Fx5200 is cheap crap. enough said. now back to that Doom3 on my AMD3500+ and 6800GT.
And you know that a 3500+ doesnt actually run at 3500 mhz??? Depending on the exact model it is around 2200 mhz, not much better than the imac's 1800. I found some spec numbers, and the 1800 g5 compares to a 2400 p4 on integer, and 3400 p4 for floating point. Seeings as games are pretty dependant on floating point these days the 1800 should be a fine cpu.
The gpu, well thats another story...
Anyone who thinks they will have a good gaming experience with a imac and Doom3 is either drunk as a skunk or higher then kite. CPU is to slow and the GPU Fx5200 is cheap crap. enough said. now back to that Doom3 on my AMD3500+ and 6800GT. Its tough playing with everything on but someone's got to do it.
You tease.
But you're right.
:P
Lemon Bon Bon
Rev B with 1.8-2.3 gig G5s and a better graphics card eg GT 6600 and it would be a terrific machine...in 2D AND 3D!
Anyone who thinks they will have a good gaming experience with a imac and Doom3 is either drunk as a skunk or higher then kite. CPU is to slow and the GPU Fx5200 is cheap crap.
After upgrading my RAM from 256MB to 512MB, I'd be inclined to postulate that the base 256MB of RAM could be a main problem for Doom 3 on the iMac. (Doesn't stop the 5200 being the next problem
Anyway, I'm waiting until someone makes a game with it.
Originally posted by PBG4 Dude
I got roughly 60 frames/sec in Nanosaur at the highest settings. I'll check RtCW demo framerates soon.
Thanks. I am curious to see how Wolfenstein performs in this machine.
Originally posted by PB
Thanks. I am curious to see how Wolfenstein performs in this machine.
Do you know the command to display framerates in RtCW? I've downloaded the demo but I don't know any of the console commands.