Latest Tiger builds sport new QuickTime controls, iCal 1.6, Font Book 2.0

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 82
    dfilerdfiler Posts: 3,420member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kim kap sol

    Not really...this is all analoguous to iTunes being able to read CDs.



    There should be an app that brings DVD reading and QT file reading together. I don't think that app should be QuickTime Player but I think something along the lines of iFlix should be created.



    HD will one day have enough capacity to easily hold dozens of movies. I know the laws regarding ripping movies are different than those for ripping CDs but once that's revised, people will be able to bring their laptops with a library of movies stored on the HD as well as well as watch homemade movies/clips. This all with the same app.




    For once I completely agree.



    There should be only one 'player' for video. It shouldn't matter whether that video happens to reside on a DVD or on a hard drive. Granted, many media formats don't support menus, subtitles, and easily selectable audio tracks. However, this is an easily surmountable interface conundrum. Just as iTunes presents CDs and mp3s in a single interface, quicktime can do the same for DVDs and video files.



    Most importantly of all, the track forward and back buttons will occaisionally have a use. ;-)
  • Reply 62 of 82
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kim kap sol

    Not really...this is all analoguous to iTunes being able to read CDs.



    Nope, not at all. An audio CD is essentially just another storage media with raw AIFF files on it. A video DVD has a specific layout of files, menu pieces, etc, that are part of the metadata for how it all hangs together. It would be more like if a CD had no file on it you could directly play, but instead had a bunch of files for various audio tracks, and information for how to mix them. (Which would be *slick*, but I digress.)



    Playing a DVD is *not* just playing an MPEG-2 video file, it's quite a bit more than that.



    Quote:

    There should be an app that brings DVD reading and QT file reading together. I don't think that app should be QuickTime Player but I think something along the lines of iFlix should be created.



    HD will one day have enough capacity to easily hold dozens of movies. I know the laws regarding ripping movies are different than those for ripping CDs but once that's revised, people will be able to bring their laptops with a library of movies stored on the HD as well as well as watch homemade movies/clips. This all with the same app.




    Yes, and you can use DVD Player now to watch those ripped movies, I believe. Use the 'Open TS_VIDEO' menu option.
  • Reply 63 of 82
    dfilerdfiler Posts: 3,420member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Kickaha

    Nope, not at all. An audio CD is essentially just another storage media with raw AIFF files on it. A video DVD has a specific layout of files, menu pieces, etc, that are part of the metadata for how it all hangs together. It would be more like if a CD had no file on it you could directly play, but instead had a bunch of files for various audio tracks, and information for how to mix them. (Which would be *slick*, but I digress.)



    Playing a DVD is *not* just playing an MPEG-2 video file, it's quite a bit more than that.




    These points are valid.



    More important though is that we approach interface design from a user rather than a programmer perspective.



    Media and meta-data are stored differently for various formats of audio that iTunes supports. The user can be blissfully ignorant that mp3 and AAC tags are completely different.



    The user should also be able to be blissfully ignorant of the file structure for video files. Quicktime already supports user interaction via embedded objects like flash.



    There would be zero confusion if DVDs were played through the quicktime player. I bet it would even pass the 'mom' test. Success rates would be exactly the same as when mom attempts to play the movie via the current, special, dedicated app.
  • Reply 64 of 82
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Kickaha

    Nope, not at all. An audio CD is essentially just another storage media with raw AIFF files on it. A video DVD has a specific layout of files, menu pieces, etc, that are part of the metadata for how it all hangs together. It would be more like if a CD had no file on it you could directly play, but instead had a bunch of files for various audio tracks, and information for how to mix them. (Which would be *slick*, but I digress.)



    Playing a DVD is *not* just playing an MPEG-2 video file, it's quite a bit more than that.







    Yes, and you can use DVD Player now to watch those ripped movies, I believe. Use the 'Open TS_VIDEO' menu option.




    Yes...that's a very intuitive interface.



    DVD is not quite a bit more...it's basically an interactive movie (or a bunch of MPEG2 files tied together via an interface. QuickTime has had interactive formats for years.



    The one I see most often is movies on Apple's game trailer webpages. You can click the large format is often only available to registered QuickTime users. But the ability to choose the size is inside the QT file.



    iTunes plays CDs and ripped music. iFlix should be able to do the same.



    music is to rich-interactive content (DVDs) as sounds are to simple non-interactive MPEG2s



    Just like iTunes allows you to have a library of 3 second 'sounds'...iFlix should also allow playback of short (or long) non-interactive movies...sure the interface would be overkill in this case but so is iTunes for sounds.



    Besides, like I said, QuickTime Player would still exist.



    edit: I don't know how DVD rips work...do you actually get the interactive menus, extras, everything? Or just the movie?
  • Reply 65 of 82
    Quote:

    Originally posted by dfiler

    These points are valid.



    More important though is that we approach interface design from a user rather than a programmer perspective.



    Media and meta-data are stored differently for various formats of audio that iTunes supports. The user can be blissfully ignorant that mp3 and AAC tags are completely different.



    The user should also be able to be blissfully ignorant of the file structure for video files. Quicktime already supports user interaction via embedded objects like flash.



    There would be zero confusion if DVDs were played through the quicktime player. I bet it would even pass the 'mom' test. Success rates would be exactly the same as when mom attempts to play the movie via the current, special, dedicated app.




    Precisely...



    if the whole DVD could be 'bundled' into a 1 file format, it would act in a way very similar to QuickTime formats that allow embedded objects (choosing size of the movie, QuickTimeVR hotspots, etc.)



    There's no voodoo magic going on here. It's not like were asking music and video to be merged into one interface like MS does. iFlix would read DVDs and store ripped DVD content (as file bundles) just like iTunes reads CDs and ripped CD content. And it would also let someone play any other QuickTime-recognized video content, just like iTunes plays most any other QuickTime-recognized audio content.
  • Reply 66 of 82
    So you're saying that maybe Apple should create another iapp to replace DVD player and allow this new app to play other movie clips?
  • Reply 67 of 82
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Yeah, I'm kind of confused here as well...



    1) Keep QuickTime Player as is.



    2) Ditch DVD Player



    3) Make new DVD Player that has all the functionality of the current one... and also can read other media formats... just like QT Player.



    Hurm.



    I get the idea about bundling the DVD disc layout into a Finder bundle, and I like it - very slick. Nice use of existing metadata mechanisms.



    Just not sure what it gains you over having it in a folder at the moment... I mean sure, it lets Joe User say 'play that pseudo-DVD I have on my disk...' a little more easily, but... hm.



    I guess I can see QT Player actually taking in the DVD Player functionality as a new bundle type, where it sees the bundle/DVD and grabs the appropriate media out of it... but... still seems wrong somehow from a user viewpoint. I'm not sure why this is difficult to articulate, but something about it is telling my gut 'no'. And I learned a long time ago to listen to the gut.



    QT Player plays QuickTime files.



    DVD Player plays DVD-layout-MPEG2-files-and-menu-thingies.



    While a DVD *could* be treated as a QuickTime file, that particular battle was lost years ago. (Really. Apple tried to get QT as the DVD container format, and lost. So then they got it accepted as the MPEG-4 format. woot!)



    I know that from a user perspective it may seem like the two are 'almost exactly alike', but they're really not when you think about it. Maybe in the future, a QT plugin could be made to handle the DVD-layout-and-menus portion, (which would be kind of cool, really), and unify them, but *for the moment* it's a bit of a stretch.
  • Reply 68 of 82
    dfilerdfiler Posts: 3,420member
    I would love to have DVDs on the desktop masquerade as bundles.



    If a novice doesn't have DVD player set to open upon DVD insert, their first move is to double click on the DVD. Bzzzt, try again. This is very infuriating for novice users.



    Users interact with DVD contents about as much as application bundle contents. What's more, nearly no files, if any, in a DVD are double clickable. This is the exact application for which bundles were implemented. They hide unnecessary detail and simplify the average user?s life without really complicating things for power users.



    From a user?s perspective, DVDs and quicktime files are (or should be) pretty much identical. Double click on either and a window comes up with the movie. DVDs just happen to be a little fancier and provide a pretty menu.



    The reason for us currently having separate playback programs is that this approach was easier for developers to implement. What?s needed is to merge quicktime player and dvd player without disrupting the way people currently use them.



    The hardest part of this will be finding an appropriate place for subtitle, angle, and audio track controls. I?m confident that apple could work these in without visually cluttering the quicktime interface, without confusing clueless users, and without disrupting current interaction techniques.



    ?Double click and go? should be the mantra.

    Not. ?Figure out file type, then either double click or navigate to applications folder and double click.



    Place the burden on the developers rather than users. Users shouldn?t have to bother themselves with figuring out low level video formats and storage schema.
  • Reply 69 of 82
    MPMoriarty, Kickaha:



    Yeah, that's pretty much what I mean. But, you're right Kickaha, It's a bit of a stretch at the moment. I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, there are more restrictions on what you can do with a DVD than what you can do with a CD in the legal sense. The HD capacity is also not quite there yet.



    With DVDs weighing in at around 4GB, they would fill even the largest present day HDs pretty fast. And while it would be possible to rip them into lossy formats to save on space, the quality degradation is much more noticeable on video than it is on audio formats.



    But in a few years from now, it would be really neat if DVD Player (or a new app altogether) would gain a new 'library' interface to keep a library of DVD rips on the computer. And if the DVD contents were bundles so nobody would accidently remove important files from the DVD rip.



    The only big problem is that associations and big organizations always see this type of feature as a way to more easily pirate content.



    I just like to keep the DVD and CD swapping to a minimum. I don't enjoy having to insert DVDs and CD into the computer...I like the idea of having the physical copy on a shelf and the content on the computer. Afterall, removable media was conceived for the purposes of backup and because HD weren't big enough to hold a large amount of content.



    But in a perfect world, HD space would be unlimited and the need for removable media wouldn't exist. So as HD capacity expands, the ability to store entire CD and DVD content on the HD should exist, IMO.



    edit: This is all part of a greater vision that I had for the last couple years. Computers will become cheap enough and compact enough to fit inside an LCD screen (or whatever flat panel screen will exist in the future)...the iMac G5 is the beginning. And these 'screens' could be hung on walls of various rooms in the house. All computers would be connected via wireless and share resources via grid computing to apps that can make use of them.



    Music libraries, movie libraries, whatever libraries would be available to all computers in the house. At any time of the day, in any room of the house, you could watch any movie stored on any of the computers. You could sync the computers (broadcast to several computers) to play the same movie so that you can be in the kitchen watching a movie, and then go to the bathroom (where there's a conveniently placed computer) and keep watching the movie.



    Of course, all of this would be even cooler if voice recognition got an upgrade. It would really feel like you're on Star Trek.
  • Reply 70 of 82
    Personally I don't think the average consumer will ever move to Movie Libraries. The average DVD is 8GB+ and me myself I own 60+ DVDs. I'd need a half terabyte just to store my movies.



    I think the more suitable option is to take a DVD Megachanger add in realtime compressor for streaming to different areas in the house.



    Once we go HD then things basically double as far as datarate.
  • Reply 71 of 82
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    Personally I don't think the average consumer will ever move to Movie Libraries. The average DVD is 8GB+ and me myself I own 60+ DVDs. I'd need a half terabyte just to store my movies.



    I think the more suitable option is to take a DVD Megachanger add in realtime compressor for streaming to different areas in the house.



    Once we go HD then things basically double as far as datarate.




    But terabyte drives are right around the corner. 3 more years and all new computers will come with a terabyte of HD space...that's my prediction.
  • Reply 72 of 82
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    True. I've got over a 1/4 TB at home right now, and 250GB drives aren't uncommon these days.



    Cripes, I remember being so thrilled at a 20MB hard drive...
  • Reply 73 of 82
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Kickaha

    True. I've got over a 1/4 TB at home right now, and 250GB drives aren't uncommon these days.



    Cripes, I remember being so thrilled at a 20MB hard drive...




    Hehe...I remember my first HD. I was just a 7 year old kid back then. My dad had brought home 'MacBottom'...it would conveniently sit underneath our upgraded 128K -> 512K Fat Mac. It was a amazing. I think it was 20MB...and I too was thrilled. I think the external floppy drive didn't get much attention after that.
  • Reply 74 of 82
    sjksjk Posts: 603member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kim kap sol

    But in a few years from now, it would be really neat if DVD Player (or a new app altogether) would gain a new 'library' interface to keep a library of DVD rips on the computer.



    Seems like it would be natural for video content management apps like iView Media (Pro), iVideo, QPict, CocoaMovieBrowser, etc. to add DVD playback if they don't already offer it. And CocoaMovieBrowser Server adds a server-side component that looks comparable to EyeHome but I can't read the Japanese details about it.
  • Reply 75 of 82
    Quote:

    Originally posted by sjk

    Seems like it would be natural for video content management apps like iView Media (Pro), iVideo, QPict, CocoaMovieBrowser, etc. to add DVD playback if they don't already offer it. And CocoaMovieBrowser Server adds a server-side component that looks comparable to EyeHome but I can't read the Japanese details about it.





    Something like this?



    http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/.../Overview.html



    You can even do neat stuff like entering your book or movie by scanning its barcode with your iSight.



    http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/.../Add_Book.html



    More info:



    http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/...ary/index.html
  • Reply 76 of 82
    Quote:

    Originally posted by MasonMcD

    Something like this?



    http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/.../Overview.html



    You can even do neat stuff like entering your book or movie by scanning its barcode with your iSight.



    http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/.../Add_Book.html



    More info:



    http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/...ary/index.html




    You're way off base but, you get points for bringing Library 3.0 up...I can't wait to get this app.
  • Reply 77 of 82
    I'm old enough to remember when computers didn't have hard drives, they had RAM and ROM and removable floppies that were actually floppy. Way back in the day, when computers started shipping with hard drives, my dad read that when you erase a file from the hard drive, the data stuck around. No matter that it would be overwritten later, my dad only got the first part of the story and treated hard drive space like it was water in the desert, thinking that whatever you wrote to your hard drive was permanent.



    PS: what's the difference between 1/4 TB and 250 GB?



    Back to your normal thread programming...
  • Reply 78 of 82
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    Personally I don't think the average consumer will ever move to Movie Libraries.



    "Ever" is a long time .... or is that "never"....
  • Reply 79 of 82
    sjksjk Posts: 603member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kim kap sol

    You're way off base ...



    I don't think it's hard to imagine player functionality eventually being integrated with Delicious Library; there's already a projector icon to the left of the search field.
  • Reply 80 of 82
    Quote:

    Originally posted by sjk

    I don't think it's hard to imagine player functionality eventually being integrated with Delicious Library; there's already a projector icon to the left of the search field.



    At the very least it could make use of OSX preview window that is shown in column view of the finder.
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