Is there any advantage to having 2 graphics card slots, other than for gaming? Is there any professional application advantage?
On the PC side of the pond, one reason to have multiple graphics cards would be the need to drive multiple displays (more than 2 displays specifically, though there are a couple of cards out there that can drive more than 2 displays). The majority of shipping PC video cards now feature dual video outs.
On the PC side of the pond, one reason to have multiple graphics cards would be the need to drive multiple displays (more than 2 displays specifically, though there are a couple of cards out there that can drive more than 2 displays). The majority of shipping PC video cards now feature dual video outs.
More reasons than just that. Anything graphics oriented will be improved significantly all the way down to 2D rendering, and hardware rendering. Highend graphics demanding applications such as 3D apps will have the most noticeable gains in performance.
Personally I don't think Apple should cripple it's consumer models just because the pro models are underperforming. Maybe Apple needs to distinguish the Powerbook and iBook with something other than processor speeds (e.g. better screen, more standard RAM, bigger drives).
Apple should get rid of that silly PRO and CON distinction.
Simple reason: all of the so called CONSUMER applications (managing AV, Multimedia, Music, and what not - you name it) , do need huge power resources. Professional Power vs Consumer Power , what does that suppose to mean... embarrassing thoroughly, if you ask me.
EDIT: Regarding sold units, the vast majority of the mac base is, guess, fellow CONSUMER. These Consumers need everything but less power
"Design" is DISTINCTION enough, perhaps a little more ram and little more this and that. Extendibility is the key here though.
Apple should get rid of that silly PRO and CON distinction.
Agreed.
The problem is they're starting to get cunning. The new 1.8 G5 SP is a great example ? slowing the bus speed to better match G5 iMac performance while making it look like the 'PRO' DP models. They already had a nice little G5 1.8 tower spec, so they dump it to do this... \
Apple might be making its future a messy one and give everyone hours of fine print to read ? very carefully.
I think one thing is certain. Everybody seems to agree that powerMac isn't really targeted towards anyone other than existing PowerMac buyers, and many of them are unhappy. Some of the same thing can be said for the rest of the Macintosh line. Graphics cards, and graphics performance is overwhelmingly the biggest issue. Apple is starting to look a lot like the computer manufacturer that is without an agenda, and if it ever had one it needed to stick to it. You would think that Apple would be aware that graphics, speed, and quality of both is always going be the deciding factor in any desktop purchased. Not that price is not important, But if you don't have anything attracting new, and old customers to your hardware anymore it wouldn't matter if it was $999, or $1,999 if no one can use it for what they want it for now, or in two years without buying a new one. The software is second to none, but It can all be gotten from the other side of the fence, and they are winning the hardware war already.
The life span of a second rate graphics system is very short these days, and the new iMac was partly out dated when it left the door. Apple needs a strategy to get people interested in the Macintosh again.
This is another reason why I think apple needs to start adapting their motherboard to accept PC graphics cards.
\tI think one thing is certain. Everybody seems to agree that powerMac isn't really targeted towards anyone other than existing PowerMac buyers, and many of them are unhappy
*Cough* Biotech *Cough* The Powermac is in fact being aimed at plenty of new targets. With a Unix background Apple is gaining mindshare with Science/Engineering groups that they never had with OS9 and older. The common fallacy made on these boards is the assumption that the G5 would miraculously cause the Powermac sales to spike. Had these people looked around they would see that laptops are on an ascending scale because people value portability over raw expansion in many areas.
Quote:
Graphics cards, and graphics performance is overwhelmingly the biggest issue. Apple is starting to look a lot like the computer manufacturer that is without an agenda, and if it ever had one it needed to stick to it. You would think that Apple would be aware that graphics, speed, and quality of both is always going be the deciding factor in any desktop purchased
I agree the graphics performance is not what I expected myself but I have to be honest here...this is your own personal RDF. It's hard to look from another point of view when our own particular needs aren't quite being met. The iMac G5 is doing GREAT and graphics speed is not the issue...stock is.
Quote:
The life span of a second rate graphics system is very short these days, and the new iMac was partly out dated when it left the door. Apple needs a strategy to get people interested in the Macintosh again. This is another reason why I think apple needs to start adapting their motherboard to accept PC graphics cards.
RDF again. Apple's stock is $1.81 and their market cap is now 21.65 Billion dollars. Your post is the very antithesis of reality here. If you want top not graphics then buy a Powermac..they start out at $1499 and then add in a top of the line Nvidia card.
Let me highlight this since I'm reading so much FUD here lately.
iMac SALES ARE SMOKIN' HOT
iPod sales are breaking records!
Apple's STOCK HASN'T BEEN HIGHER IN 4 YEARS!
now for more common sense.
Consumer Mac users don't give a s**t about the graphics speed enough to cancel their purchase.
PC hardware isn't that good even if they have SLI 3 months before a Powermac
No company is hotter right now than Apple
and last but not least if you don't work for an Apple Retailer or VAR then please STFU about what people want because you don't know what the hell you're talking about. I say that in the nicest tone possible folks. It gets a little tiring having some yokel tell me what consumers want when they don't have access to "any" Mac sales data.
Apple will have PCI Express and other goodies on the next lineup. That's my hunch. Faster processors should be coming or at the least processors with more L2 cache.
It doesn't even make sense to talk about PCs. If you're a company running PCs you can now tack on thousands to your budget just to handle with 3rd party software the malicious spyware/adware/viruses that Macintosh networks don't need. Never before has Apple had such a compelling lineup and natural advantage. Their stock price adequately reflects what is common to most Tech Analysts but curiously seems to evade some AI worry worts. All the best.
I agree the graphics performance is not what I expected myself but I have to be honest here...this is your own personal RDF. It's hard to look from another point of view when our own particular needs aren't quite being met. The iMac G5 is doing GREAT and graphics speed is not the issue...stock is.
Agreed. I'm a Mac user since 1989. I currently own an iBook 600 and a PowerBook 1.33. I don't even know what good a fast graphics card would do me and I don't care. I don't play 3D games. I've heard that a fast card speeds up the Finder. Big deal, I think the Finder works fine. The speed of my graphics card is a non-issue.
Personally, I think price is a far more important issue to most computer buyers than "the graphics."
Word from the grape vine is iMacs are selling for sh*t.
Bad info. Apple is selling every iMac they can if what's happening at my company is any indication. I totally agree with your points on the video card..I think many of us wanted/expected more but the issue wasn't enough to hamper sales.
Quote:
Personally, I think price is a far more important issue to most computer buyers than "the graphics."
Yes for the masses price trumps features. The iBook coming well appointed for $999 makes more waves than trumpeting a faster graphics card.
However Onlooker does heavy graphics and thus it is understandable while he must place a higher priority there. Apple is certainly the darling of the industry and it is correct that the Powermac is not the reason. It is primarily iTunes/iPods and the current success of the iMac G5 mindshare.
Apple will have to work hard to keep this momentum. I look forward to seeing just what they do next year. I wouldn't be suprised to see them get quite agressive in some areas.
More reasons than just that. Anything graphics oriented will be improved significantly all the way down to 2D rendering, and hardware rendering. Highend graphics demanding applications such as 3D apps will have the most noticeable gains in performance.
I'm too tired to write.
With the exception of Nvidia's relaunch of SLI (a throwback to the old 3dfx days), I would respectfully suggest that you are wrong.
About what? what you quoted doesn't seem to match what your saying. Did you quote the right phrase because I was talking about SLI.
Okay, well, we're thinking the same thing then. Up until recently though, having a pair of graphics cards in a PC basically just meant that you could drive a larger number of monitors, and had zero impact on performance, whether it be 2D or 3D (2D performance is pretty much moot regardless).
Bad info. Apple is selling every iMac they can if what's happening at my company is any indication. I totally agree with your points on the video card..I think many of us wanted/expected more but the issue wasn't enough to hamper sales.
But isn't there significant supply restraints? From what I hear this iMac isn't actually that popular, or as popular as others. It's just that they don't have that many to sell, so the ones they do have are selling. The waiting list isn't from extremely high sales. It's from lack of iMacs due to manufacturing woes.
I don't necessarily believe my grapevine source, but she has said a few things in the past that ended up being right on target when I thought she was totally off base.
Unheard of sales increases of the little pod that could and...
you guessed it, the iMAC that Apple literally cannot keep on store shelves (or inventory stock it seems) due to a huge upswell in demand (not supply constraints-as noted by Apple in the news) for the worlds first true all-in-one.
Something tells me that it(Apple stock) may slow down a teeny bit after Christmas... until MWSF in Jan.
I'd like to see Apple offer an 'Ultimate' SLI board configuration in PowerMacs. In fact, from the initial price speculation on the PC side, SLI capable nforce 4 motherboards are only about $50 more?
Not exactly a problem for the PowerMac range.
Two GTs or Ultras?
Heaven on PCI Express?
As to whether the iMac is hot or not? January's conference call will reveal all.
The next big thing? To get the PowerMacs onto dual core...and the Powerbooks going G5. It's that simple. iPod wise? Flashbased player and we're going to see Apple do something it's never done before. Go critical mass.
...and software wise? It's Tiger. TIGER. TIGER!!! And this time...use some of those millions to show in adverts WHY...(!) That's why I like the iMac featurette. It shows what you can do. GarageBand. Elegance. Burn DVDs. iPhoto. Why not 'Tiger'/iMac-ise an advert like this?!
in my opinion apple will go with dual (or multi) core from ppc970mp, so the next move is pro grafic card on powermac (qudro or firegl at least, wildcat is the dream), so put hardcore game card on imac (at least the fastest).
that will make a big difference in real world (cad/cam, but also 2d with coreimage/video) and a huge difference in buyer perception.
and magnetic ram, supported and develop by both freescale and ibm
I'm not that excited about dual core, I'm more excited about 65NM.
I think the next G5 will have more HD slots, possibly another optical slot, more room for PCI's (either another slot or more spacing), and PCI-EXPRESS.
Also more bugs worked out like muting for the back audio when the front is plugged in. In addition, a fix for the FW800 controller to FIX THE FREAKIN THING to be at least as fast as the G4's FW800.
I also expect the power button to be put back on the keyboard (as soon as they run out of their existing stock of worthless ultra-cheap keyboards).
And finally, the MOST ambitious but also the most common sense upgrade of them all: a 3 button mouse (with middle scroll).
Comments
Originally posted by kupan787
Is there any advantage to having 2 graphics card slots, other than for gaming? Is there any professional application advantage?
On the PC side of the pond, one reason to have multiple graphics cards would be the need to drive multiple displays (more than 2 displays specifically, though there are a couple of cards out there that can drive more than 2 displays). The majority of shipping PC video cards now feature dual video outs.
Originally posted by Chagi
On the PC side of the pond, one reason to have multiple graphics cards would be the need to drive multiple displays (more than 2 displays specifically, though there are a couple of cards out there that can drive more than 2 displays). The majority of shipping PC video cards now feature dual video outs.
More reasons than just that. Anything graphics oriented will be improved significantly all the way down to 2D rendering, and hardware rendering. Highend graphics demanding applications such as 3D apps will have the most noticeable gains in performance.
I'm too tired to write.
Originally posted by BeigeUser
....
Personally I don't think Apple should cripple it's consumer models just because the pro models are underperforming. Maybe Apple needs to distinguish the Powerbook and iBook with something other than processor speeds (e.g. better screen, more standard RAM, bigger drives).
Apple should get rid of that silly PRO and CON distinction.
Simple reason: all of the so called CONSUMER applications (managing AV, Multimedia, Music, and what not - you name it) , do need huge power resources. Professional Power vs Consumer Power
EDIT: Regarding sold units, the vast majority of the mac base is, guess, fellow CONSUMER. These Consumers need everything but less power
"Design" is DISTINCTION enough, perhaps a little more ram and little more this and that. Extendibility is the key here though.
best
Apple should get rid of that silly PRO and CON distinction.
Agreed.
The problem is they're starting to get cunning. The new 1.8 G5 SP is a great example ? slowing the bus speed to better match G5 iMac performance while making it look like the 'PRO' DP models. They already had a nice little G5 1.8 tower spec, so they dump it to do this...
Apple might be making its future a messy one and give everyone hours of fine print to read ? very carefully.
The life span of a second rate graphics system is very short these days, and the new iMac was partly out dated when it left the door. Apple needs a strategy to get people interested in the Macintosh again.
This is another reason why I think apple needs to start adapting their motherboard to accept PC graphics cards.
\tI think one thing is certain. Everybody seems to agree that powerMac isn't really targeted towards anyone other than existing PowerMac buyers, and many of them are unhappy
*Cough* Biotech *Cough* The Powermac is in fact being aimed at plenty of new targets. With a Unix background Apple is gaining mindshare with Science/Engineering groups that they never had with OS9 and older. The common fallacy made on these boards is the assumption that the G5 would miraculously cause the Powermac sales to spike. Had these people looked around they would see that laptops are on an ascending scale because people value portability over raw expansion in many areas.
Graphics cards, and graphics performance is overwhelmingly the biggest issue. Apple is starting to look a lot like the computer manufacturer that is without an agenda, and if it ever had one it needed to stick to it. You would think that Apple would be aware that graphics, speed, and quality of both is always going be the deciding factor in any desktop purchased
I agree the graphics performance is not what I expected myself but I have to be honest here...this is your own personal RDF. It's hard to look from another point of view when our own particular needs aren't quite being met. The iMac G5 is doing GREAT and graphics speed is not the issue...stock is.
The life span of a second rate graphics system is very short these days, and the new iMac was partly out dated when it left the door. Apple needs a strategy to get people interested in the Macintosh again. This is another reason why I think apple needs to start adapting their motherboard to accept PC graphics cards.
RDF again. Apple's stock is $1.81 and their market cap is now 21.65 Billion dollars. Your post is the very antithesis of reality here. If you want top not graphics then buy a Powermac..they start out at $1499 and then add in a top of the line Nvidia card.
Let me highlight this since I'm reading so much FUD here lately.
iMac SALES ARE SMOKIN' HOT
iPod sales are breaking records!
Apple's STOCK HASN'T BEEN HIGHER IN 4 YEARS!
now for more common sense.
Consumer Mac users don't give a s**t about the graphics speed enough to cancel their purchase.
PC hardware isn't that good even if they have SLI 3 months before a Powermac
No company is hotter right now than Apple
and last but not least if you don't work for an Apple Retailer or VAR then please STFU about what people want because you don't know what the hell you're talking about. I say that in the nicest tone possible folks. It gets a little tiring having some yokel tell me what consumers want when they don't have access to "any" Mac sales data.
Apple will have PCI Express and other goodies on the next lineup. That's my hunch. Faster processors should be coming or at the least processors with more L2 cache.
It doesn't even make sense to talk about PCs. If you're a company running PCs you can now tack on thousands to your budget just to handle with 3rd party software the malicious spyware/adware/viruses that Macintosh networks don't need. Never before has Apple had such a compelling lineup and natural advantage. Their stock price adequately reflects what is common to most Tech Analysts but curiously seems to evade some AI worry worts. All the best.
Originally posted by hmurchison
iMac SALES ARE SMOKIN' HOT
iPod sales are breaking records!
Apple's STOCK HASN'T BEEN HIGHER IN 4 YEARS!
Word from the grape vine is iMacs are selling for sh*t.
I thought I'd fallen into some alternate universe for while there.
Originally posted by onlooker
Stock price has nothing to do with he PowerMac, or iMac. It's all iPod, and iTunes don't kid your self into thinking it's anything more.
Word from the grape vine is iMacs are selling for sh*t.
Then why do the iMacs have such a long wait?
macaddict16
Originally posted by hmurchison
I agree the graphics performance is not what I expected myself but I have to be honest here...this is your own personal RDF. It's hard to look from another point of view when our own particular needs aren't quite being met. The iMac G5 is doing GREAT and graphics speed is not the issue...stock is.
Agreed. I'm a Mac user since 1989. I currently own an iBook 600 and a PowerBook 1.33. I don't even know what good a fast graphics card would do me and I don't care. I don't play 3D games. I've heard that a fast card speeds up the Finder. Big deal, I think the Finder works fine. The speed of my graphics card is a non-issue.
Personally, I think price is a far more important issue to most computer buyers than "the graphics."
Word from the grape vine is iMacs are selling for sh*t.
Bad info. Apple is selling every iMac they can if what's happening at my company is any indication. I totally agree with your points on the video card..I think many of us wanted/expected more but the issue wasn't enough to hamper sales.
Personally, I think price is a far more important issue to most computer buyers than "the graphics."
Yes for the masses price trumps features. The iBook coming well appointed for $999 makes more waves than trumpeting a faster graphics card.
However Onlooker does heavy graphics and thus it is understandable while he must place a higher priority there. Apple is certainly the darling of the industry and it is correct that the Powermac is not the reason. It is primarily iTunes/iPods and the current success of the iMac G5 mindshare.
Apple will have to work hard to keep this momentum. I look forward to seeing just what they do next year. I wouldn't be suprised to see them get quite agressive in some areas.
Originally posted by onlooker
Word from the grape vine is iMacs are selling for sh*t.
wow, that would mean i should have had mine 8 weeks ago.
still, nothing's new on my desk.
maybe you didn't understand this mr. Grape Vine correctly.
according to my appledealer, selling isn't the problem, supplying is.
Originally posted by onlooker
More reasons than just that. Anything graphics oriented will be improved significantly all the way down to 2D rendering, and hardware rendering. Highend graphics demanding applications such as 3D apps will have the most noticeable gains in performance.
I'm too tired to write.
With the exception of Nvidia's relaunch of SLI (a throwback to the old 3dfx days), I would respectfully suggest that you are wrong.
Originally posted by Chagi
With the exception of Nvidia's relaunch of SLI (a throwback to the old 3dfx days), I would respectfully suggest that you are wrong.
About what? what you quoted doesn't seem to match what your saying. Did you quote the right phrase because I was talking about SLI.
Originally posted by onlooker
About what? what you quoted doesn't seem to match what your saying. Did you quote the right phrase because I was talking about SLI.
Okay, well, we're thinking the same thing then. Up until recently though, having a pair of graphics cards in a PC basically just meant that you could drive a larger number of monitors, and had zero impact on performance, whether it be 2D or 3D (2D performance is pretty much moot regardless).
Originally posted by hmurchison
Bad info. Apple is selling every iMac they can if what's happening at my company is any indication. I totally agree with your points on the video card..I think many of us wanted/expected more but the issue wasn't enough to hamper sales.
But isn't there significant supply restraints? From what I hear this iMac isn't actually that popular, or as popular as others. It's just that they don't have that many to sell, so the ones they do have are selling. The waiting list isn't from extremely high sales. It's from lack of iMacs due to manufacturing woes.
I don't necessarily believe my grapevine source, but she has said a few things in the past that ended up being right on target when I thought she was totally off base.
Apples stock has soared for mainly 2 reasons:
Unheard of sales increases of the little pod that could and...
you guessed it, the iMAC that Apple literally cannot keep on store shelves (or inventory stock it seems) due to a huge upswell in demand (not supply constraints-as noted by Apple in the news) for the worlds first true all-in-one.
Something tells me that it(Apple stock) may slow down a teeny bit after Christmas... until MWSF in Jan.
Not exactly a problem for the PowerMac range.
Two GTs or Ultras?
Heaven on PCI Express?
As to whether the iMac is hot or not? January's conference call will reveal all.
The next big thing? To get the PowerMacs onto dual core...and the Powerbooks going G5. It's that simple. iPod wise? Flashbased player and we're going to see Apple do something it's never done before. Go critical mass.
...and software wise? It's Tiger. TIGER. TIGER!!! And this time...use some of those millions to show in adverts WHY...(!) That's why I like the iMac featurette. It shows what you can do. GarageBand. Elegance. Burn DVDs. iPhoto. Why not 'Tiger'/iMac-ise an advert like this?!
Lemon Bon Bon
in my opinion apple will go with dual (or multi) core from ppc970mp, so the next move is pro grafic card on powermac (qudro or firegl at least, wildcat is the dream), so put hardcore game card on imac (at least the fastest).
that will make a big difference in real world (cad/cam, but also 2d with coreimage/video) and a huge difference in buyer perception.
and magnetic ram, supported and develop by both freescale and ibm
and blu-ray disc supported by pioneer from 2005
sorry for bad english
I think the next G5 will have more HD slots, possibly another optical slot, more room for PCI's (either another slot or more spacing), and PCI-EXPRESS.
Also more bugs worked out like muting for the back audio when the front is plugged in. In addition, a fix for the FW800 controller to FIX THE FREAKIN THING to be at least as fast as the G4's FW800.
I also expect the power button to be put back on the keyboard (as soon as they run out of their existing stock of worthless ultra-cheap keyboards).
And finally, the MOST ambitious but also the most common sense upgrade of them all: a 3 button mouse (with middle scroll).