. iPod wise? Flashbased player and we're going to see Apple do something it's never done before. Go critical mass.
Lemon Bon Bon
Bon Bon my Friend. Did you not hear Steve Jobs just bash the flash player idea not even two weeks ago during the iPod revamp? He keeps telling us over, and over the flash player is worthless. Why would he then turn around, and try and sell us a worthless player?
It has not even been 2 weeks since the last time he bashed the flash player.
If there was one in the works, I don't think he would continue to bash their worth. It would make him a total hypocrite car salesman, or something. Not a respectable CEO that you can trust.
I really don't think your going to see this flash player.
Bon Bon my Friend. Did you not hear Steve Jobs just bash the flash player idea not even two weeks ago during the iPod revamp? He keeps telling us over, and over the flash player is worthless. Why would he then turn around, and try and sell us a worthless player?
It has not even been 2 weeks since the last time he bashed the flash player.
If there was one in the works, I don't think he would continue to bash their worth. It would make him a total hypocrite car salesman, or something. Not a respectable CEO that you can trust.
I really don't think your going to see this flash player.
Tell that to the new iMac G5. When Jobs released the sunflower Mac, he gave some long spiel about "each part being true to itself" and "a vertically mounted optical drive wasn't as fast or reliable as horizontal mount" etc., etc.
Guess that makes him a flip-flopper. (just in fun, don't crucify me, mmmkay?)
That is going to be a pretty sad graphics card. It should have 256 MB DDR3 at least, or optional from day 1, and I think there will already be new cards from Nvidia, and ATI by then. Imagine how long it will be before they start using SLI if 1x PCI-E is going to be the motherboard revision for the next year after that at least.
Bon Bon my Friend. Did you not hear Steve Jobs just bash the flash player idea not even two weeks ago during the iPod revamp? He keeps telling us over, and over the flash player is worthless. Why would he then turn around, and try and sell us a worthless player?
It has not even been 2 weeks since the last time he bashed the flash player.
If there was one in the works, I don't think he would continue to bash their worth. It would make him a total hypocrite car salesman, or something. Not a respectable CEO that you can trust.
I really don't think your going to see this flash player.
That is going to be a pretty sad graphics card. It should have 256 MB DDR3 at least, or optional from day 1, and I think there will already be new cards from Nvidia, and ATI by then. Imagine how long it will be before they start using SLI if 1x PCI-E is going to be the motherboard revision for the next year after that at least.
I hope your wrong THT.
This is Apple we are talking here. It's either going to be a Radeon 9700 or a Nvidia 6600 standard in at least the 2 lower end models. 9800 Pro and 6800 Ultras will still be options. I think the odds are pretty low that they will support SLI.
That is going to be a pretty sad graphics card. It should have 256 MB DDR3 at least, or optional from day 1, and I think there will already be new cards from Nvidia, and ATI by then. Imagine how long it will be before they start using SLI if 1x PCI-E is going to be the motherboard revision for the next year after that at least.
I hope your wrong THT.
The 6600 is actually a pretty darn good video card for the target price range, even better if they ship it with a 6600GT. They both represent excellent bang for the buck.
I don't think the very next processor will be Dual core, and I'm not sold on how great dual core is anyway. I think THT recently mentioned some of the drawbacks to Dual core although I could not find his post. Maybe he would be kind enough to go over some of the drawbacks of Dual core processors again.
I don't see why dual core will ot be "ready" in time for Jan. Although that does sound somewhat early, I do not think it far fetched. Especially with IBM already in the dual core business with ePower4 and 5. the G5 is a stripped down Power4 anyway.
The only possible real hindrance MAY be price.
A January '05 product would really cement IBMs tech lead over intel and amd (the 65nm manufacturing partnership with amd notwithstanding).
IBM has been doing dual core since the before the G5. That didn't produce a Dual Core G4 for us though. I think it's going to happen, just not that fast, and I'm still interested in THT's answer to the drawbacks of dual cores. We may be better off without them.
IBM has been doing dual core since the before the G5. That didn't produce a Dual Core G4 for us though. I think it's going to happen, just not that fast, and I'm still interested in THT's answer to the drawbacks of dual cores. We may be better off without them.
Drawbacks to dual core? Compared to what -- dual chips? There are none, the dual core chip will be better in all respects except (possibly) price. There might be some edge conditions where 2 FSBs is better than one, but since the FSB performance exceeds the memory subsystem performance by quite a bit that is a moot point... and dwarfed by the improvement in inter-core communication by putting them on the same chip. How much better a dual core chip is will also depend on the details of its design -- there are many possible configurations.
Surely you must realize that ALL technologies have drawbacks. This should not surprise anyone here.
Sure there will be applications upon which a dual core chip will bomb on. These are likely to be bandwidth hungery usages. But in generally the chips will be a win for the average user. Especially at the lower end where it would be possible to have a dual processor iMac.
Of course knowing Apple that dual processor iMac will still be coupled to the slowest GPU out there. The point is this technology will offer considerable advantages. Apples OS already makes good use of multiprocessors with wide spread usage there will be even more incentive to craft software to use the technology.
I don't see SMP as a solution to the frequency scaling issue, but I do see it as a direction in which computing has to move to.
Dave
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
I don't think the very next processor will be Dual core, and I'm not sold on how great dual core is anyway. I think THT recently mentioned some of the drawbacks to Dual core although I could not find his post. Maybe he would be kind enough to go over some of the drawbacks of Dual core processors again.
There will always be situations where somebody might be better off with a different technology. That is a fact of life, serving those situations is what gives life to less than mainstream hardware.
If the dual cores are as some descriptions detail (all of which are rumors by the way) then the vast majority of Mac useres will benefit greatly. The big trick for Apple would be to get such hardware into the hands of as many useres as possible. It is the wide adoption of SMP and thus software developed for it, that will allow the hardware to shine. Apple though does have an advantage here as other systems and the associated software are not as heavly optimized for SMP.
Apple other advantage is that they will be able to offer systems at very competitve prices if the wish with respect to intel systems. More likely in Apples case they will go for obscene profits, they never seem to learn here. Depending on exactly how IBM designs the dual core chip they could end up with a processor cheaper to produce than any of the single core i86 processors. Its a die area thing and the current 970 is very small. A bit of optimization and a few tweaks and I could see an extremely competitive offering.
Dave
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
IBM has been doing dual core since the before the G5. That didn't produce a Dual Core G4 for us though. I think it's going to happen, just not that fast, and I'm still interested in THT's answer to the drawbacks of dual cores. We may be better off without them.
Well obviously the next big step is going to be PPC Cell architecture going into a Mac! ...mark my words... Pretty soon (ok, maybe not "soon"), the thing to brag about will be how many CPU cores you are packin' (and I don't mean just 1 vs. 2), instead of how many Ghz or the number that follows a "G" family name.
I haven't mentioned anything about the drawbacks of dual-cores. They have been the future for a long time coming. I've only tried to correct the impression that Freescale has a dual-core G4 available now. It's still a year away. In fact, the odds are pretty good that IBM will have a dual-core 970 way before Freescale will.
I think there is a small chance of the next Power Mac having a dual-core 970. Small chance. If not next rev, then the one after that.
After hearing far too much about polls of "likely voters"
There could be a very positive benefit to both Apple and their
loyal consumers by running a survey poll of "likely buyers"
This should include both current Apple Computer purchasers
as well as iPod purchasers.
A wish list poll directed at those who have already purchased an Apple product might just shake the trees enough to bring about those improvements that we here are hoping for.
It seems logical that the iPod purchasers are also going to want
superior gaming features while the mom and pop home users
just want something easy to use and the pros want it ALL!
They could learn a lot from simple questions.
WHEN ARE YOU EXPECTING TO PURCHASE A NEW COMPUTER SYSTEM?
WHAT IS YOUR BUDGET?
DESKTOP OR POWERBOOK
USER CATAGORY, HOME, STUDENT, HOBBYIST, PROFESSIONAL?
MINIMUM SYSTEM REQUREMENTS YOU EXPECT IN YOUR SYSTEM?
After hearing far too much about polls of "likely voters"
There could be a very positive benefit to both Apple and their
loyal consumers by running a survey poll of "likely buyers"
This should include both current Apple Computer purchasers
as well as iPod purchasers.
A wish list poll directed at those who have already purchased an Apple product might just shake the trees enough to bring about those improvements that we here are hoping for.
It seems logical that the iPod purchasers are also going to want
superior gaming features while the mom and pop home users
just want something easy to use and the pros want it ALL!
They could learn a lot from simple questions.
WHEN ARE YOU EXPECTING TO PURCHASE A NEW COMPUTER SYSTEM?
WHAT IS YOUR BUDGET?
DESKTOP OR POWERBOOK
USER CATAGORY, HOME, STUDENT, HOBBYIST, PROFESSIONAL?
MINIMUM SYSTEM REQUREMENTS YOU EXPECT IN YOUR SYSTEM?
Comments
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
. iPod wise? Flashbased player and we're going to see Apple do something it's never done before. Go critical mass.
Lemon Bon Bon
Bon Bon my Friend. Did you not hear Steve Jobs just bash the flash player idea not even two weeks ago during the iPod revamp? He keeps telling us over, and over the flash player is worthless. Why would he then turn around, and try and sell us a worthless player?
It has not even been 2 weeks since the last time he bashed the flash player.
If there was one in the works, I don't think he would continue to bash their worth. It would make him a total hypocrite car salesman, or something. Not a respectable CEO that you can trust.
I really don't think your going to see this flash player.
Originally posted by onlooker
Bon Bon my Friend. Did you not hear Steve Jobs just bash the flash player idea not even two weeks ago during the iPod revamp? He keeps telling us over, and over the flash player is worthless. Why would he then turn around, and try and sell us a worthless player?
It has not even been 2 weeks since the last time he bashed the flash player.
If there was one in the works, I don't think he would continue to bash their worth. It would make him a total hypocrite car salesman, or something. Not a respectable CEO that you can trust.
I really don't think your going to see this flash player.
Tell that to the new iMac G5. When Jobs released the sunflower Mac, he gave some long spiel about "each part being true to itself" and "a vertically mounted optical drive wasn't as fast or reliable as horizontal mount" etc., etc.
Guess that makes him a flip-flopper.
January 05
eMac G5
1.6 GHz 970fx
400 MHz FSB
256 MB PC3200
32 MB GeForce 5200
Powerbook G4
1.5 GHz 7447A
12.1" LCD display
167 MHz FSB
256 MB PC2700
64 MB ATI 9700 mobility
Powerbook G5
1.6 and 1.8 GHz 970fx
533 and 600 MHz FSB
512 MB PC3200
128 MB ATI 9700 mobility or better
February 05
Xserve G5
2.3 GHz 970fx
...
March 05
PowerMac G5
dual 2.0, 2.4 and 2.8 GHz 970fx
1 to 1.4 GHz FSB
512 MB DDR2 memory
128 MB PCIe Nvidia 6600
April 05
iMac G5
1.8 to 2.1 GHz 970fx
600 and 700 MHz FSB
256 MB PC3200 memory
128 MB AGP Nvidia 6600
Originally posted by THT
Here's my guess:
March 05
PowerMac G5
dual 2.0, 2.4 and 2.8 GHz 970fx
1 to 1.4 GHz FSB
512 MB DDR2 memory
128 MB PCIe Nvidia 6600
That is going to be a pretty sad graphics card. It should have 256 MB DDR3 at least, or optional from day 1, and I think there will already be new cards from Nvidia, and ATI by then. Imagine how long it will be before they start using SLI if 1x PCI-E is going to be the motherboard revision for the next year after that at least.
I hope your wrong THT.
Originally posted by onlooker
Bon Bon my Friend. Did you not hear Steve Jobs just bash the flash player idea not even two weeks ago during the iPod revamp? He keeps telling us over, and over the flash player is worthless. Why would he then turn around, and try and sell us a worthless player?
It has not even been 2 weeks since the last time he bashed the flash player.
If there was one in the works, I don't think he would continue to bash their worth. It would make him a total hypocrite car salesman, or something. Not a respectable CEO that you can trust.
I really don't think your going to see this flash player.
...good one, like to see one of those.
Originally posted by onlooker
That is going to be a pretty sad graphics card. It should have 256 MB DDR3 at least, or optional from day 1, and I think there will already be new cards from Nvidia, and ATI by then. Imagine how long it will be before they start using SLI if 1x PCI-E is going to be the motherboard revision for the next year after that at least.
I hope your wrong THT.
This is Apple we are talking here. It's either going to be a Radeon 9700 or a Nvidia 6600 standard in at least the 2 lower end models. 9800 Pro and 6800 Ultras will still be options. I think the odds are pretty low that they will support SLI.
Originally posted by onlooker
That is going to be a pretty sad graphics card. It should have 256 MB DDR3 at least, or optional from day 1, and I think there will already be new cards from Nvidia, and ATI by then. Imagine how long it will be before they start using SLI if 1x PCI-E is going to be the motherboard revision for the next year after that at least.
I hope your wrong THT.
The 6600 is actually a pretty darn good video card for the target price range, even better if they ship it with a 6600GT. They both represent excellent bang for the buck.
But I doubt it'll be ready for before mid 2005.
The only possible real hindrance MAY be price.
A January '05 product would really cement IBMs tech lead over intel and amd (the 65nm manufacturing partnership with amd notwithstanding).
Originally posted by onlooker
IBM has been doing dual core since the before the G5. That didn't produce a Dual Core G4 for us though. I think it's going to happen, just not that fast, and I'm still interested in THT's answer to the drawbacks of dual cores. We may be better off without them.
Drawbacks to dual core? Compared to what -- dual chips? There are none, the dual core chip will be better in all respects except (possibly) price. There might be some edge conditions where 2 FSBs is better than one, but since the FSB performance exceeds the memory subsystem performance by quite a bit that is a moot point... and dwarfed by the improvement in inter-core communication by putting them on the same chip. How much better a dual core chip is will also depend on the details of its design -- there are many possible configurations.
Sure there will be applications upon which a dual core chip will bomb on. These are likely to be bandwidth hungery usages. But in generally the chips will be a win for the average user. Especially at the lower end where it would be possible to have a dual processor iMac.
Of course knowing Apple that dual processor iMac will still be coupled to the slowest GPU out there.
I don't see SMP as a solution to the frequency scaling issue, but I do see it as a direction in which computing has to move to.
Dave
Originally posted by onlooker
I don't think the very next processor will be Dual core, and I'm not sold on how great dual core is anyway. I think THT recently mentioned some of the drawbacks to Dual core although I could not find his post. Maybe he would be kind enough to go over some of the drawbacks of Dual core processors again.
If the dual cores are as some descriptions detail (all of which are rumors by the way) then the vast majority of Mac useres will benefit greatly. The big trick for Apple would be to get such hardware into the hands of as many useres as possible. It is the wide adoption of SMP and thus software developed for it, that will allow the hardware to shine. Apple though does have an advantage here as other systems and the associated software are not as heavly optimized for SMP.
Apple other advantage is that they will be able to offer systems at very competitve prices if the wish with respect to intel systems. More likely in Apples case they will go for obscene profits, they never seem to learn here. Depending on exactly how IBM designs the dual core chip they could end up with a processor cheaper to produce than any of the single core i86 processors. Its a die area thing and the current 970 is very small. A bit of optimization and a few tweaks and I could see an extremely competitive offering.
Dave
Originally posted by onlooker
IBM has been doing dual core since the before the G5. That didn't produce a Dual Core G4 for us though. I think it's going to happen, just not that fast, and I'm still interested in THT's answer to the drawbacks of dual cores. We may be better off without them.
Integration with Bose speakers for a small, but robust sound integration with the iPod, chargable, and an AM/FM radio player with XM radio support.
Ohhh...so sexy.
I think there is a small chance of the next Power Mac having a dual-core 970. Small chance. If not next rev, then the one after that.
There could be a very positive benefit to both Apple and their
loyal consumers by running a survey poll of "likely buyers"
This should include both current Apple Computer purchasers
as well as iPod purchasers.
A wish list poll directed at those who have already purchased an Apple product might just shake the trees enough to bring about those improvements that we here are hoping for.
It seems logical that the iPod purchasers are also going to want
superior gaming features while the mom and pop home users
just want something easy to use and the pros want it ALL!
They could learn a lot from simple questions.
WHEN ARE YOU EXPECTING TO PURCHASE A NEW COMPUTER SYSTEM?
WHAT IS YOUR BUDGET?
DESKTOP OR POWERBOOK
USER CATAGORY, HOME, STUDENT, HOBBYIST, PROFESSIONAL?
MINIMUM SYSTEM REQUREMENTS YOU EXPECT IN YOUR SYSTEM?
ARE YOU CONSIDERING A MEDIA CENTER?
YOUR TOP 3 APPLICATIONS?
YOUR TOP 3 GAMES?
HOURS PER DAY IN USE?
WHAT SYSTEMS DO YOU CURRENTLY OWN?
FREEFORM COMMENTS?
Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree
After hearing far too much about polls of "likely voters"
There could be a very positive benefit to both Apple and their
loyal consumers by running a survey poll of "likely buyers"
This should include both current Apple Computer purchasers
as well as iPod purchasers.
A wish list poll directed at those who have already purchased an Apple product might just shake the trees enough to bring about those improvements that we here are hoping for.
It seems logical that the iPod purchasers are also going to want
superior gaming features while the mom and pop home users
just want something easy to use and the pros want it ALL!
They could learn a lot from simple questions.
WHEN ARE YOU EXPECTING TO PURCHASE A NEW COMPUTER SYSTEM?
WHAT IS YOUR BUDGET?
DESKTOP OR POWERBOOK
USER CATAGORY, HOME, STUDENT, HOBBYIST, PROFESSIONAL?
MINIMUM SYSTEM REQUREMENTS YOU EXPECT IN YOUR SYSTEM?
ARE YOU CONSIDERING A MEDIA CENTER?
YOUR TOP 3 APPLICATIONS?
YOUR TOP 3 GAMES?
HOURS PER DAY IN USE?
WHAT SYSTEMS DO YOU CURRENTLY OWN?
FREEFORM COMMENTS?
I think thats a very good idea