The AVERAGE Mom and Pop user just wants an affordable machine
that works.
Oddly enough that is all I think Apple provides it's users any more. Other than the affordable part. Just the average machine. Its too bad they don't seem to want to excel at anything anymore.
IMO, that's not good enough. They need to be the pioneers of new technology or they will continue to be the Johnny-come-lately's in the Enthusiast/Pro markets. It would be nice not to have say, "Damn, I was Apple would adopt X PC technology." once in a while...
Oddly enough that is all I think Apple provides it's users any more. Other than the affordable part. Just the average machine. Its too bad they don't seem to want to excel at anything anymore.
Apparently they excel at increasing their stock with values jumping from
$19.25 per share last Dec 22 to $61.35 yesterday.
Of course this doesn't mean diddly squat to those of us
who are still waiting for that 3Ghz Quadra, dual layer Superdrive,
single slot killer graphics cards and all kinds of goodies that SHOULD
be available in the finest computers on the market.
IMO, that's not good enough. They need to be the pioneers of new technology or they will continue to be the Johnny-come-lately's in the Enthusiast/Pro markets. It would be nice not to have say, "Damn, I was Apple would adopt X PC technology." once in a while...
This is really hard for Apple to do. They do adopt new technologies where they can (e.g. HyperTransport, AirPort, Gigabit Ethernet, FireWire, all digital displays, out-of-the box liquid cooling, PCI-X on the desktop, first wide-screen notebook, first 17" notebook, DVI-out on notebooks).
But as soon as they dare to innovate (FireWire 800, ADC) these standards are regarded as proprietary. They sure could be faster in adopting upcoming standards like PCIe, DDR-RAM, SATA II, the latestet GPUs that are backed by the whole industry. But you have to consider that updates to Apple's hardware occur twice a year only and that Apple has to implement these into their chipsets while the other motherboard manufacturers buy them from the ones who set the standards (Intel, AMD etc.).
What Apple could do to speed up adoption is to stop designing thier own chipsets and buy from somewhere else (like nVidia). This should be possible because these chipsets interface via HyperTransport (or other well-documented standards). But this would not make them the technology leaders - they could offer only what has widely been adopted - but new technologies would come to the Mac-platform faster.
IMO, that's not good enough. They need to be the pioneers of new technology or they will continue to be the Johnny-come-lately's in the Enthusiast/Pro markets. It would be nice not to have say, "Damn, I was Apple would adopt X PC technology." once in a while...
Since the core market of Apple pro computers is all about designers and publishers, it's irrelevant to pioneer too much, since those people actually don't use something if it has not been tested and feedbacked sufficently. So every new visible technology (and by visible, I mean : that would force them to use an adapter for any device they use) would be a nuisance for them.
Anyway, there's room for pro computers that would make Apple pioneers. 3D oriented stations would take advantage of those techs. But Apple doesn't build such stations (yet?).
Anyway, there's room for pro computers that would make Apple pioneers. 3D oriented stations would take advantage of those techs. But Apple doesn't build such stations (yet?).
I wish they would. I've said it a few times that if they just adopted a semi-plug and play interface that was more compatible with out of the box PC graphics cards the Apple computer as a whole (I guess PowerMac only) would look 10x more attractive to prospective buyers.
What Apple would need to do (for people that think Mac, and graphics options are a problem) is spend some of this money they are making from Xserves, and iPod sales, and hire, and designate a graphics team capable of writing OGL, and drives for the cards that would become available. Start with a short list of 3, or 4 each ATI, and Nvidia cards, and grow. Then Start updating the list, and adding more card compatibility as the team writes more drivers. Soon such cards as ATI Fire GL, and Nvidia Quadro FX would be options for us. Maybe even eventually an ART PURE Rendering card, or more less known cards. Apple "You want PC parody on graphics options. You got em'." I'd like to see that. It would take care of the Pro 3D card problem for 3D users who prefer Macs that would like use one as a 3D workstation in no time if there were better graphics options available, (and the graphics drivers actually worked this time.)
[snip]Apple "You want PC parody on graphics options. You got em'." I'd like to see that. [more snippage]
Back to our regularly scheduled program.
Um, we already have a PC parody on graphics options. What we really need is PC parity, so we can have all the cool stuff too, instead of stuff people find highly amusing.
Um, we already have a PC parody on graphics options. What we really need is PC parity, so we can have all the cool stuff too, instead of stuff people find highly amusing.
exploitation of my typo will be your undoing But duly noted.
What if they went back to the idea of simply including a PC in the box, but one that, most of the time, was a pass-through display engine? There would be some logic that shared some memory between the PowerPC and the AMD CPUs. Kind of like a modern-day DEC Rainbow. As long as there was no Microsoft code in there, it shouldn't be horribly expensive. I expect that's how the Xbox PC will work, too.
What if they went back to the idea of simply including a PC in the box, but one that, most of the time, was a pass-through display engine? There would be some logic that shared some memory between the PowerPC and the AMD CPUs. Kind of like a modern-day DEC Rainbow. As long as there was no Microsoft code in there, it shouldn't be horribly expensive. I expect that's how the Xbox PC will work, too.
No way. I still have an old Orange PC card, and as kewl of an idea as it was at first you soon realize that (#1 PC's suck!) if you do that it takes incentive out of porting the few good PC applications to Mac to begin with.
Plus that's never going to help the graphics problem. I think Apple is working on a # of solutions in regards to graphics solutions for Mac users of the future. I just hope it's within this century.
Although, I don't expect an entirely new enclosure for the PowerMac I wouldn't be surprised if there was a variation on this existing design coming sometime maybe. I think they are limited as to how much room they need for a simple PowerMac, (smaller) and a they need more room in there if they want to make room to expand for HD's, and/or anything else. It seems huge now, but that radiator takes up a bunch of room, and there is only 2 places for HD's in that thing as it is. THey say the design is revolutionary, but if they want to claim its revolutionary it should be able to hold the same 4 HD's that the G4 did. Then well talk revolutionary.
Although, I don't expect an entirely new enclosure for the PowerMac I wouldn't be surprised if there was a variation on this existing design coming sometime maybe. I think they are limited as to how much room they need for a simple PowerMac, (smaller) and a they need more room in there if they want to make room to expand for HD's, and/or anything else. It seems huge now, but that radiator takes up a bunch of room, and there is only 2 places for HD's in that thing as it is. THey say the design is revolutionary, but if they want to claim its revolutionary it should be able to hold the same 4 HD's that the G4 did. Then well talk revolutionary.
I agree, I think there should be a smaller case for the single processor model(s). One that would actually fit in the cabinet in my desk that's specifically made for a computer. I almost bought a Power Mac over the weekend, until I measured to make sure it would fit. It won't.
Wow, it's amazing to me thatr all of you except for Murchison are focusing on the computers, when it is the I-pod that's Apple's future. I suspect Jobs would be happy to dump the desktop if he could, but he realizes for now it's a necessary evil. Even the laptops are going to be dinosaurs, once they figure out a way to give us a screen that can be rolled up and put in our pockets. The future is in nanotech, implants and the like. Computers are dead items, just waiting for the next revolution in size/price/performance ratios. What Apple is selling is a way of living, where the network is the key, and you use various tools to access it and share info with your friends. I saw Andy inatko speak a couple of weeks ago at the SOHO Applestore. Afterwards half the staff went out to dinner with him. He's selling I-life, whihc is basically Apples implementation of their original plan to change the world. Everything is linked, and planned obsolesence ensures that you'll be going back to the well over and over, buying more shit in your attempt to be cool. If you doubt what I say, remember, these boards do not reflect the real world.
Wow, it's amazing to me thatr all of you except for Murchison are focusing on the computers, when it is the I-pod that's Apple's future.
Rubbish.. The reason we are all focusing on computers is that is what most people in here are interested in. If you want to talk iPod the Digital Hub forum is down the hall.
Quote:
Originally posted by Ptrash
I suspect Jobs would be happy to dump the desktop if he could, but he realizes for now it's a necessary evil. Even the laptops are going to be dinosaurs, once they figure out a way to give us a screen that can be rolled up and put in our pockets. The future is in nanotech, implants and the like.
Yea I'm getting mine tomorrow.
Quote:
Originally posted by Ptrash
Computers are dead items, just waiting for the next revolution in size/price/performance ratios. What Apple is selling is a way of living, where the network is the key, and you use various tools to access it and share info with your friends.
What apple is selling is something to be purchased. Once you purchase it it is your decision how, and what it will be used for. - Which is why we are discussing what the next step in the design is in here, and what it is lacking for our particular needs.
Quote:
Originally posted by Ptrash
I saw Andy inatko speak a couple of weeks ago at the SOHO Applestore. Afterwards half the staff went out to dinner with him. He's selling I-life, whihc is basically Apples implementation of their original plan to change the world. Everything is linked, and planned obsolesence ensures that you'll be going back to the well over and over, buying more shit in your attempt to be cool. If you doubt what I say, remember, these boards do not reflect the real world.
Thanks for the insight, but I make my own decisions, and decide what is best for me on my own. If you decide to be a mindless zombie that is your choice.
I for one did not buy the G5 I saved up for because Apple did not provide what was necessary for me to do my work using their computer at an acceptable performance level that I was comfortable with. If Apple can not provide a something at that level by somewhere near time the Nforce4 PCI-E, SLI, Opteron motherboards are ready. I won't be buying one next year either. So you wont see me in that well - Sorry, and If Apple stopped making computers, and dumped the PowerMac like you seem to think is best. - Think again. Here is some insight into true human nature. BLOOMBERG-HEADLINE "After betraying faithful users by abandoning the desktop computer Apple best selling iPod has taken a nose dive, and sales have dropped off the charts."
Even if your not a Mac user you know a back stabber is always going to be a back stabber. Then Again. Maybe you, and Andy inatko's mindless zombie theory will go into play here. Who knows?
The iPod accounts for only about 20% of Apple's revenue. Even if iPod sales double, it will still be a minor percentage of their revenue. Computer sales is where the real money is.
Comments
that works.
Unfortunately, many feel trapped by their investment in MS based
software as well as compatibility issues at work.
For these people price will ALWAYS be an important issue.
Every day, I hear bone headed stubborn arguments from people
at work who just upgraded their machine to a new Dell for
$600-800. They also continue to argue that they can get everything they want for a P/C.
The converts coming to Apple are those who are just sick and tired
of the nightmares of running Windows and those who just like the way they look.
I'm only speaking of AVERAGE home users.
The one's who use them for surfing, e-mail, chat and occasional
word processing.
For these people, the iMacG5 is ideal.
Their kids can continue to play games on their Play Stations and Xboxes
without needing a high end machine to do so.
Most of us here are far more serious users and we expect Apple
to provide us with the best of the best.
For this reason, we are often frustrated when Apple just doesn't seem
to listen or care what we think.
Perhaps my suggestion of a Likely Buyer's Poll
needs a little help.
Perhaps each of the members of this community need to take a few moments to contact Apple and let their concerns be known.
Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree
The AVERAGE Mom and Pop user just wants an affordable machine
that works.
Oddly enough that is all I think Apple provides it's users any more. Other than the affordable part. Just the average machine. Its too bad they don't seem to want to excel at anything anymore.
Originally posted by hmurchison:
Apple simply needs to keep up with the Jones'.
IMO, that's not good enough. They need to be the pioneers of new technology or they will continue to be the Johnny-come-lately's in the Enthusiast/Pro markets. It would be nice not to have say, "Damn, I was Apple would adopt X PC technology." once in a while...
Screw the Macs. I want iPods!
Where's my gun...
Cheers!
Originally posted by onlooker
Oddly enough that is all I think Apple provides it's users any more. Other than the affordable part. Just the average machine. Its too bad they don't seem to want to excel at anything anymore.
Apparently they excel at increasing their stock with values jumping from
$19.25 per share last Dec 22 to $61.35 yesterday.
Of course this doesn't mean diddly squat to those of us
who are still waiting for that 3Ghz Quadra, dual layer Superdrive,
single slot killer graphics cards and all kinds of goodies that SHOULD
be available in the finest computers on the market.
Originally posted by Concord
IMO, that's not good enough. They need to be the pioneers of new technology or they will continue to be the Johnny-come-lately's in the Enthusiast/Pro markets. It would be nice not to have say, "Damn, I was Apple would adopt X PC technology." once in a while...
This is really hard for Apple to do. They do adopt new technologies where they can (e.g. HyperTransport, AirPort, Gigabit Ethernet, FireWire, all digital displays, out-of-the box liquid cooling, PCI-X on the desktop, first wide-screen notebook, first 17" notebook, DVI-out on notebooks).
But as soon as they dare to innovate (FireWire 800, ADC) these standards are regarded as proprietary. They sure could be faster in adopting upcoming standards like PCIe, DDR-RAM, SATA II, the latestet GPUs that are backed by the whole industry. But you have to consider that updates to Apple's hardware occur twice a year only and that Apple has to implement these into their chipsets while the other motherboard manufacturers buy them from the ones who set the standards (Intel, AMD etc.).
What Apple could do to speed up adoption is to stop designing thier own chipsets and buy from somewhere else (like nVidia). This should be possible because these chipsets interface via HyperTransport (or other well-documented standards). But this would not make them the technology leaders - they could offer only what has widely been adopted - but new technologies would come to the Mac-platform faster.
Originally posted by Concord
IMO, that's not good enough. They need to be the pioneers of new technology or they will continue to be the Johnny-come-lately's in the Enthusiast/Pro markets. It would be nice not to have say, "Damn, I was Apple would adopt X PC technology." once in a while...
Since the core market of Apple pro computers is all about designers and publishers, it's irrelevant to pioneer too much, since those people actually don't use something if it has not been tested and feedbacked sufficently. So every new visible technology (and by visible, I mean : that would force them to use an adapter for any device they use) would be a nuisance for them.
Anyway, there's room for pro computers that would make Apple pioneers. 3D oriented stations would take advantage of those techs. But Apple doesn't build such stations (yet?).
Originally posted by The One to Rescue
Anyway, there's room for pro computers that would make Apple pioneers. 3D oriented stations would take advantage of those techs. But Apple doesn't build such stations (yet?).
I wish they would. I've said it a few times that if they just adopted a semi-plug and play interface that was more compatible with out of the box PC graphics cards the Apple computer as a whole (I guess PowerMac only) would look 10x more attractive to prospective buyers.
What Apple would need to do (for people that think Mac, and graphics options are a problem) is spend some of this money they are making from Xserves, and iPod sales, and hire, and designate a graphics team capable of writing OGL, and drives for the cards that would become available. Start with a short list of 3, or 4 each ATI, and Nvidia cards, and grow. Then Start updating the list, and adding more card compatibility as the team writes more drivers. Soon such cards as ATI Fire GL, and Nvidia Quadro FX would be options for us. Maybe even eventually an ART PURE Rendering card, or more less known cards. Apple "You want PC parody on graphics options. You got em'." I'd like to see that. It would take care of the Pro 3D card problem for 3D users who prefer Macs that would like use one as a 3D workstation in no time if there were better graphics options available, (and the graphics drivers actually worked this time.)
Back to our regularly scheduled program.
Originally posted by onlooker
[snip]Apple "You want PC parody on graphics options. You got em'." I'd like to see that. [more snippage]
Back to our regularly scheduled program.
Um, we already have a PC parody on graphics options. What we really need is PC parity, so we can have all the cool stuff too, instead of stuff people find highly amusing.
Originally posted by PBG4 Dude
Um, we already have a PC parody on graphics options. What we really need is PC parity, so we can have all the cool stuff too, instead of stuff people find highly amusing.
exploitation of my typo will be your undoing
Originally posted by onlooker
exploitation of my typo will be your undoing
It was too much to resist.
Originally posted by cubist
What if they went back to the idea of simply including a PC in the box, but one that, most of the time, was a pass-through display engine? There would be some logic that shared some memory between the PowerPC and the AMD CPUs. Kind of like a modern-day DEC Rainbow. As long as there was no Microsoft code in there, it shouldn't be horribly expensive. I expect that's how the Xbox PC will work, too.
No way. I still have an old Orange PC card, and as kewl of an idea as it was at first you soon realize that (#1 PC's suck!) if you do that it takes incentive out of porting the few good PC applications to Mac to begin with.
Plus that's never going to help the graphics problem. I think Apple is working on a # of solutions in regards to graphics solutions for Mac users of the future. I just hope it's within this century.
Originally posted by onlooker
Although, I don't expect an entirely new enclosure for the PowerMac I wouldn't be surprised if there was a variation on this existing design coming sometime maybe. I think they are limited as to how much room they need for a simple PowerMac, (smaller) and a they need more room in there if they want to make room to expand for HD's, and/or anything else. It seems huge now, but that radiator takes up a bunch of room, and there is only 2 places for HD's in that thing as it is. THey say the design is revolutionary, but if they want to claim its revolutionary it should be able to hold the same 4 HD's that the G4 did. Then well talk revolutionary.
I agree, I think there should be a smaller case for the single processor model(s). One that would actually fit in the cabinet in my desk that's specifically made for a computer. I almost bought a Power Mac over the weekend, until I measured to make sure it would fit. It won't.
Originally posted by Ptrash
Wow, it's amazing to me thatr all of you except for Murchison are focusing on the computers, when it is the I-pod that's Apple's future.
Rubbish.. The reason we are all focusing on computers is that is what most people in here are interested in. If you want to talk iPod the Digital Hub forum is down the hall.
Originally posted by Ptrash
I suspect Jobs would be happy to dump the desktop if he could, but he realizes for now it's a necessary evil. Even the laptops are going to be dinosaurs, once they figure out a way to give us a screen that can be rolled up and put in our pockets. The future is in nanotech, implants and the like.
Yea I'm getting mine tomorrow.
Originally posted by Ptrash
Computers are dead items, just waiting for the next revolution in size/price/performance ratios. What Apple is selling is a way of living, where the network is the key, and you use various tools to access it and share info with your friends.
What apple is selling is something to be purchased. Once you purchase it it is your decision how, and what it will be used for. - Which is why we are discussing what the next step in the design is in here, and what it is lacking for our particular needs.
Originally posted by Ptrash
I saw Andy inatko speak a couple of weeks ago at the SOHO Applestore. Afterwards half the staff went out to dinner with him. He's selling I-life, whihc is basically Apples implementation of their original plan to change the world. Everything is linked, and planned obsolesence ensures that you'll be going back to the well over and over, buying more shit in your attempt to be cool. If you doubt what I say, remember, these boards do not reflect the real world.
Thanks for the insight, but I make my own decisions, and decide what is best for me on my own. If you decide to be a mindless zombie that is your choice.
I for one did not buy the G5 I saved up for because Apple did not provide what was necessary for me to do my work using their computer at an acceptable performance level that I was comfortable with. If Apple can not provide a something at that level by somewhere near time the Nforce4 PCI-E, SLI, Opteron motherboards are ready. I won't be buying one next year either. So you wont see me in that well - Sorry, and If Apple stopped making computers, and dumped the PowerMac like you seem to think is best. - Think again. Here is some insight into true human nature. BLOOMBERG-HEADLINE "After betraying faithful users by abandoning the desktop computer Apple best selling iPod has taken a nose dive, and sales have dropped off the charts."
Even if your not a Mac user you know a back stabber is always going to be a back stabber. Then Again. Maybe you, and Andy inatko's mindless zombie theory will go into play here. Who knows?