Skipping the keyboard allows for a smaller package, for further cost savings. I'm sure Apple had to work hard to keep costs down while maintaining a decent margin, to get the price so low. I think they've done a fantastic job of offering a very enticing product. I just ordered mine.
A small tower would have cost squat to make and believe it or not thats what appeals to most buyers. Apple could have made it in a nice looking case
You've been hearing it from Apple users, not PC users. Its not a huge problem for me, but it will be an issue for PC users.
"They didn't include a keyboard and mouse? Would i buy a car without tires? So I guess it really isn't a $500 computer after all".
As for killing the sales of their higher models-Apple needs market share-thats why they came out with this thing in the first place. They just don't like to give good value for the money in hardware, and they never have. The iBooks are the closest thing Apple produces to being a relative bargain.
Quote:
Originally posted by lundy
If Apple had bundled a mouse and keyboard, we would be hearing the following:
- "I don't want that mouse, why should I have to pay for it? I have 15 mice in a closet."
- Same for the keyboard: "I don't want to be forced to use Apple's keyboard. Why can't Apple just let me pick up a cheap USB keyboard and save money, instead of forcing me to pay for their high-priced keyboards?"
At least 6 years now we have been hearing stuff like the above. Apple finally unbundles it and now people want stuff BUNDLED? Go buy a mouse and keyboard, fer chrissakes. Have your "CHOICE" (favorite PC user word) of all the mice and keyboards in the universe.
And why in the world would you want a "tower" instead of this tiny compact beauty? If you think Apple is going to let you buy a $499 box with slots and drive bays and let you cheaply upgrade it yourself, and thereby kill the sales of their higher-end products, DREAM ON.
You've been hearing it from Apple users, not PC users. Its not a huge problem for me, but it will be an issue for PC users.
"They didn't include a keyboard and mouse? Would i buy a car without tires? So I guess it really isn't a $500 computer after all".
well technically buying a computer without a monitor is like buying a car without a steering wheel. try another metaphor or accept the fact that people dont care about having a keyboard coming with their computer. if they do, i'm sure it's worth the 20 bucks or whatever.
well technically buying a computer without a monitor is like buying a car without a steering wheel. try another metaphor or accept the fact that people dont care about having a keyboard coming with their computer. if they do, i'm sure it's worth the 20 bucks or whatever.
Mac users won't care, PC users will. And they will certainly find it odd.
PCs dont always come with a monitor, but they do always come with a keyboard and a mouse so my metaphor is correct.
Who cares if they expect it to be included? They're not, and that point they're just accessories for retailers to upsell people on. I don't think anybody is going to freak out over this.
How can you complain about them not bundling a mouse and keyboard when you readily admit this was intended to entice people already on windows? IE: They already have a mouse, keyboard and monitor, especially when everyone bitches about the one button mouse anyway. This is meant to get them off their current half assed OS, and onto a state of the art one. Extras (kb, mouse and screen) be damned. Let them hook whatever the heck they want up to it, as long as they hook up WITH it.
Quote:
Most low-cost PC manufacturers slap together Frankenstein machines by hacking away features from the high end (of three years ago, anyway) and putting the warmed-over parts in ill-fitting cheap plastic boxes. They don?t really have a choice, since they don?t design any of the parts, from operating system to motherboard. That?s why most budget PC cases seem to be littered with a mish-mash of uncoordinated stickers from every component vendor on the planet. But Apple engineers can handcraft a new machine from scratch. For Mac mini, that means taking the time to decide just which elements make a Mac a Mac and then figuring out how to shrink them. And that process just happened to reinvent the whole concept of a desktop computer.
Who cares if they expect it to be included? They're not, and that point they're just accessories for retailers to upsell people on. I don't think anybody is going to freak out over this.
How can you complain about them not bundling a mouse and keyboard when you readily admit this was intended to entice people already on windows? IE: They already have a mouse, keyboard and monitor, especially when everyone bitches about the one button mouse anyway. This is meant to get them off their current half assed OS, and onto a state of the art one. Extras (kb, mouse and screen) be damned. Let them hook whatever the heck they want up to it, as long as they hook up WITH it.
I already addressed this.
The computer they have now will likely be handed down.
The control and command buttons are not in the same place on the keyboard.
I'm not complaining, I personally dont care much about since I still use the old apple extended keyboard with the griffin adapter. The old keyboards were much better than the new ones.
Its new PC switchers that i think will find it odd, and be annoyed
"It doesn't have a mouse or keyboard? That's odd..."
"Well unless you're a first time computer buyer (which most people aren't) you can just hook up the mouse and keyboard you already have. Less clutter for you since you won't have extra components, and you get more machine for your money because they took out the extra expense."
I have never heard a PC user say that. They expect it to be included and rightly so.
Apple's margins are the highest in the computer industry. Its the market share which is anemic.
What are their margins? What are Dells margins? Know this before you say what you are saying. Don't just assume Apple's margins are the highest without knowing, because they aren't.
Who would honestly pass up a $499 Mac because they don't want to spend $30 on a Keyboard/Mouse? Think logically for a second. What, are people all of a sudden going to go "Oh man, I was just about to buy that Mac, but since it will cost me $30 to get a keyboard and mouse I'll get a $499 ugly as hell PC which comes with a Keyboard and Mouse...hell, that's like a savings of almost...$30..." please...
Gotta say, one of the number one gripes I hear from cheap PC customers is "I already have a mouse, keyboard and speakers... can you take em out of the box and give me a discount?"
Even at the price I think skimping on the mouse and keyboard is a little silly. It would be like selling an iPod without headphones, but worse since people generally have a pair of headphones lying around the house.
I think 256Mb of ram is a little skimp but whatever.
Otherwise a brilliant package (For the price anyhow)!
If the iPod was like $200 cheaper because it didn't include headphones, I'd buy it. I know a lot of people that would too.
"It doesn't have a mouse or keyboard? That's odd..."
"Well unless you're a first time computer buyer (which most people aren't) you can just hook up the mouse and keyboard you already have. Less clutter for you since you won't have extra components, and you get more machine for your money because they took out the extra expense."
Is that not a sellable retort?
not really since you can get a PC for the same price with a monitor, ekyboard, mouse, and speakers
What are their margins? What are Dells margins? Know this before you say what you are saying. Don't just assume Apple's margins are the highest without knowing, because they aren't.
Yes they are, look it up. Apple has always been known for high margins on computers at the expense of market share. Thats one reason they dont put 512Mb RAM in every machine.
Who would honestly pass up a $499 Mac because they don't want to spend $30 on a Keyboard/Mouse? Think logically for a second. What, are people all of a sudden going to go "Oh man, I was just about to buy that Mac, but since it will cost me $30 to get a keyboard and mouse I'll get a $499 ugly as hell PC which comes with a Keyboard and Mouse...hell, that's like a savings of almost...$30..." please...
They are trying to sell to customers that are used to buying things the PC way. They will price compare.
They will say, how can they sell a computer without a mouse and keyboard? Why cant I just add RAM myself? Why does Apple charge so much for RAM?
These will be issues even though you guys dont want to see it.
I'm wondering if Bill has taken his finger out of your back yet? Has he? Because i don't want his arm in the way of my foot when i insert it up your @ss. Oh i feel better..keep talking Bill..I mean steve666
No Mic port. This rules out many business sales, unless they want to dick around with flakey USB adaptors.
A/V outputs are not of high enough quality to use in a home theater. There goes another potential market for the Mini: a home entertainment system server.
No way to upgrade nothin'. Video chipset? Nope. CPU? Nope. RAM? Sort of, but an Apple tech has got to do it. Yet more landfill fodder from Apple.
It's just overwhelmingly mediocre all around.
At least the lack of a keyboard/mouse can be rectified by spending more money. No amount of money will put a new video card in the Mini or add an extra port to it.
Comments
Originally posted by iDave
Skipping the keyboard allows for a smaller package, for further cost savings. I'm sure Apple had to work hard to keep costs down while maintaining a decent margin, to get the price so low. I think they've done a fantastic job of offering a very enticing product. I just ordered mine.
A small tower would have cost squat to make and believe it or not thats what appeals to most buyers. Apple could have made it in a nice looking case
"They didn't include a keyboard and mouse? Would i buy a car without tires? So I guess it really isn't a $500 computer after all".
As for killing the sales of their higher models-Apple needs market share-thats why they came out with this thing in the first place. They just don't like to give good value for the money in hardware, and they never have. The iBooks are the closest thing Apple produces to being a relative bargain.
Originally posted by lundy
If Apple had bundled a mouse and keyboard, we would be hearing the following:
- "I don't want that mouse, why should I have to pay for it? I have 15 mice in a closet."
- Same for the keyboard: "I don't want to be forced to use Apple's keyboard. Why can't Apple just let me pick up a cheap USB keyboard and save money, instead of forcing me to pay for their high-priced keyboards?"
At least 6 years now we have been hearing stuff like the above. Apple finally unbundles it and now people want stuff BUNDLED? Go buy a mouse and keyboard, fer chrissakes. Have your "CHOICE" (favorite PC user word) of all the mice and keyboards in the universe.
And why in the world would you want a "tower" instead of this tiny compact beauty? If you think Apple is going to let you buy a $499 box with slots and drive bays and let you cheaply upgrade it yourself, and thereby kill the sales of their higher-end products, DREAM ON.
Originally posted by steve666
You've been hearing it from Apple users, not PC users. Its not a huge problem for me, but it will be an issue for PC users.
"They didn't include a keyboard and mouse? Would i buy a car without tires? So I guess it really isn't a $500 computer after all".
well technically buying a computer without a monitor is like buying a car without a steering wheel. try another metaphor or accept the fact that people dont care about having a keyboard coming with their computer. if they do, i'm sure it's worth the 20 bucks or whatever.
Originally posted by steve666
You've been hearing it from Apple users, not PC users.
Nope. It's the PC users always saying they won't "switch" because they want to "CHOOSE" their mouse, keyboard and monitor.
So are you saying the $499 should include mouse and keyboard? Because if not, you can add one to the order right on the Apple Store page.
Apple only profits $160 million on $3 billion gross sales. They can't afford to run margins as low as you suggest. It just ain't going to happen.
Originally posted by ipodandimac
well technically buying a computer without a monitor is like buying a car without a steering wheel. try another metaphor or accept the fact that people dont care about having a keyboard coming with their computer. if they do, i'm sure it's worth the 20 bucks or whatever.
Mac users won't care, PC users will. And they will certainly find it odd.
PCs dont always come with a monitor, but they do always come with a keyboard and a mouse so my metaphor is correct.
Originally posted by lundy
Nope. It's the PC users always saying they won't "switch" because they want to "CHOOSE" their mouse, keyboard and monitor.
So are you saying the $499 should include mouse and keyboard? Because if not, you can add one to the order right on the Apple Store page.
Apple only profits $160 million on $3 billion gross sales. They can't afford to run margins as low as you suggest. It just ain't going to happen.
I have never heard a PC user say that. They expect it to be included and rightly so.
Apple's margins are the highest in the computer industry. Its the market share which is anemic.
Most low-cost PC manufacturers slap together Frankenstein machines by hacking away features from the high end (of three years ago, anyway) and putting the warmed-over parts in ill-fitting cheap plastic boxes. They don?t really have a choice, since they don?t design any of the parts, from operating system to motherboard. That?s why most budget PC cases seem to be littered with a mish-mash of uncoordinated stickers from every component vendor on the planet. But Apple engineers can handcraft a new machine from scratch. For Mac mini, that means taking the time to decide just which elements make a Mac a Mac and then figuring out how to shrink them. And that process just happened to reinvent the whole concept of a desktop computer.
Originally posted by trebek
Who cares if they expect it to be included? They're not, and that point they're just accessories for retailers to upsell people on. I don't think anybody is going to freak out over this.
Guess again. Its ridiculous not to include them
Originally posted by rageous
How can you complain about them not bundling a mouse and keyboard when you readily admit this was intended to entice people already on windows? IE: They already have a mouse, keyboard and monitor, especially when everyone bitches about the one button mouse anyway. This is meant to get them off their current half assed OS, and onto a state of the art one. Extras (kb, mouse and screen) be damned. Let them hook whatever the heck they want up to it, as long as they hook up WITH it.
I already addressed this.
The computer they have now will likely be handed down.
The control and command buttons are not in the same place on the keyboard.
I'm not complaining, I personally dont care much about since I still use the old apple extended keyboard with the griffin adapter. The old keyboards were much better than the new ones.
Its new PC switchers that i think will find it odd, and be annoyed
"Well unless you're a first time computer buyer (which most people aren't) you can just hook up the mouse and keyboard you already have. Less clutter for you since you won't have extra components, and you get more machine for your money because they took out the extra expense."
Is that not a sellable retort?
Originally posted by steve666
I have never heard a PC user say that. They expect it to be included and rightly so.
Apple's margins are the highest in the computer industry. Its the market share which is anemic.
What are their margins? What are Dells margins? Know this before you say what you are saying. Don't just assume Apple's margins are the highest without knowing, because they aren't.
Well, sir, Apple just did.
Originally posted by trevorM
Even at the price I think skimping on the mouse and keyboard is a little silly. It would be like selling an iPod without headphones, but worse since people generally have a pair of headphones lying around the house.
I think 256Mb of ram is a little skimp but whatever.
Otherwise a brilliant package (For the price anyhow)!
If the iPod was like $200 cheaper because it didn't include headphones, I'd buy it. I know a lot of people that would too.
Originally posted by rageous
"It doesn't have a mouse or keyboard? That's odd..."
"Well unless you're a first time computer buyer (which most people aren't) you can just hook up the mouse and keyboard you already have. Less clutter for you since you won't have extra components, and you get more machine for your money because they took out the extra expense."
Is that not a sellable retort?
not really since you can get a PC for the same price with a monitor, ekyboard, mouse, and speakers
Originally posted by ijerry
What are their margins? What are Dells margins? Know this before you say what you are saying. Don't just assume Apple's margins are the highest without knowing, because they aren't.
Yes they are, look it up. Apple has always been known for high margins on computers at the expense of market share. Thats one reason they dont put 512Mb RAM in every machine.
Originally posted by PBG3
Who would honestly pass up a $499 Mac because they don't want to spend $30 on a Keyboard/Mouse? Think logically for a second. What, are people all of a sudden going to go "Oh man, I was just about to buy that Mac, but since it will cost me $30 to get a keyboard and mouse I'll get a $499 ugly as hell PC which comes with a Keyboard and Mouse...hell, that's like a savings of almost...$30..." please...
They are trying to sell to customers that are used to buying things the PC way. They will price compare.
They will say, how can they sell a computer without a mouse and keyboard? Why cant I just add RAM myself? Why does Apple charge so much for RAM?
These will be issues even though you guys dont want to see it.
No Mic port. This rules out many business sales, unless they want to dick around with flakey USB adaptors.
A/V outputs are not of high enough quality to use in a home theater. There goes another potential market for the Mini: a home entertainment system server.
No way to upgrade nothin'. Video chipset? Nope. CPU? Nope. RAM? Sort of, but an Apple tech has got to do it. Yet more landfill fodder from Apple.
It's just overwhelmingly mediocre all around.
At least the lack of a keyboard/mouse can be rectified by spending more money. No amount of money will put a new video card in the Mini or add an extra port to it.