Apple's Future....A Sad Reality?

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
So, why the need to be pessimistic? I guess to bring things down to reality. This post is not going to have a bunch of dates on where Apple did this or that but rather a more philosophical point of view.



I should start by giving my history.....



I have been on this forum for a long time. Before coming on as Jared, I was JaredS in the late 90's. In 2000/2001 I worked for Apple at their headquarters in Cupertino and their Apple Store in the mid-west. I have been using Apple's and Mac's since I was a year old (Apple ][e and than the very first Macintosh).



Now, aside from my history of Macintosh, back to where I was going with this thread......I am not saying the future of Apple is going to be dark clouds and thunder storms but I also do not think it is going to be sun shine and chirping birds.



So, this is the year of HD for Apple. Last year was the year of hardware.



Thinking back last year, Apple did not do a lot of amazing things in the hardware arena last year. Will Apple pull through with it's HD theme? They will have to do a lot more than just come out with some new versions of their pro video applications.



Apple has the potential to have amazing hardware offerings, but what's holding them back? Do they want to catch up with Intel and AMD? Apple know that us Mac users are thirsty for new technology, but fail to deliver.



What is Apple's logic for not advancing better than they could? While I understand it cost them a lot of R&D money to do a complete new architecture every time there is a change in technology, will we ever get ahead again?
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 69
    m.o.s.tm.o.s.t Posts: 255member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Jared





    Thinking back last year, Apple did not do a lot of amazing things in the hardware arena last year.

    [/B]



    iPod photo?

    iPod mini ?

    iMac G5 ?



    and the PowerMac went to 2.5Ghz



    To answer your question.. I think Apple planed on IBM being able to step up to the plate a little more than they did



    Let me ask this question: What more would you have want?
  • Reply 2 of 69
    PM G5 at 3.0 GHz
  • Reply 3 of 69
    quambquamb Posts: 143member
    Apple's top line products are taking ages to come out, no doubt. Though since when was Apple the king of technology? Do you expect Apple to be making breakthroughs and godlike feats of engineering every year?



    Come on. Lighten up.



    They are just another company, that make great products. Just like sony, pioneer, nintendo etc, who also aren't releasing spectacular hardware all the time. And those guys aren't a "sad reality" either.
  • Reply 4 of 69
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,660member
    I'm not understanding how Apple fails to "pull through" the HD theme by "just" updating the pro video apps.



    What they are offering right now is a tremendously powerful software suite at a killer price that gives you industry leading HD edit and content creation tools, integrated as a package like no other solution, and which run very well indeed on current hardware.



    What were you expecting the "year of HD" to be, exactly? HD iPods? Entry level machines that can do real time HD effects? An Apple branded HD satellite system?



    Jeez.
  • Reply 5 of 69
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Everybody knows I think their hardware has become a joke. They have lost touch with reality. They believe that the iPod, Mini, and iMac will prevail, and users will keep returning for the Barbi computer. Apple has become Naive. Without a core computer that shows what they are made of they have nothing to stand on. Their OS will not be the makings of their future without a performance workstation to set the pace of new technology to come in their other products.



    My 2¢
  • Reply 6 of 69
    Also keep in mind that the whole pace of the industry has slowed down over the last few years. Chips are taking longer to ramp up on all sides, software projects are enormous undertakings, and people are more concerned about security and it "just working" than a ton of new features. Also, as far as operating systems go, think of how much is already built in. Not to mention all of the things for developers who will be making cool apps for you. Oh, and Apple was early with Tiger. If you think Apple pace of innovation is slow, good thing you are not a MS fanboy...
  • Reply 7 of 69
    jasenj1jasenj1 Posts: 912member
    Yeah. I think the new Pro apps (and iMovie HD) and Tiger make a great lineup on the software side. And every piece of Apple software (ok, the vast majority) must run on a piece of Apple hardware, so they make money twice. Sure, any of the apps may not be the FASTEST in the universe, but they are darn nice.



    I think Apple (and the rest of us who follow their products) are still stinging from IBM's "promise" to reach 3GHz and then missing. Unfortunately, the whole CPU industry started hitting performance walls right when Apple made lots of hoopla about bustin' out with the G5. Fortunately, IBM has lots of experience with high-end server chips and that technology can/should trickle down to Apple's products.



    Personally, I REALLY hope this dual-core chatter pans out on both the G4 and G5 sides. I'd like to see Apple release some "swing for the fences" hardware rather than the anemic Mac mini with whimpy GPUs they've been putting out. I just don't know if the business fundamentals are there to make a "swing for the fences" hardware attempt work. And not just from a "will people buy it" point of view; but the part supply, support, hardware glitch (see new trackpads), etc. point of view.



    Apple will ALWAYS be reliant on a third party to supply their CPUs. That will always hurt them if the supplier becomes incompetent (Moto), or loses interest in CPUs appropriate for Apple (Moto), or hits technical blocks (IBM).



    - Jasen.
  • Reply 8 of 69
    jms698jms698 Posts: 102member
    No company can be completely independent and produce all its own technology (though Sony tries pretty hard). Apple cannot and should not got that route.



    Opening up part of their dependences might make the future more secure. For example: if IBM can't deliver a fast enough CPU, why not also support x86 CPUs? Steve Jobs himself has said that while they are a good hardware company, they are an even better software company.



    my 1¢
  • Reply 9 of 69
    sam damonsam damon Posts: 129member
    Hardware and software tend to leapfrog each other, no matter who's making the hardware and software.



    The introduction of Mac OS 10.4 and Final Cut Studio is just the latest iteration of this cycle for us MacFolk. One thing's for sure: no dual G5 machines, no Final Cut Studio. The hardware just wasn't there to support the software.



    Sure, IBM had problems getting faster chips out, but so did everyone else. The Mini has made a huge difference in mindshare, as well.



    I think this thread's a bit unduly pessimistic.
  • Reply 10 of 69
    chris cuillachris cuilla Posts: 4,825member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by onlooker

    Everybody knows I think their hardware has become a joke. They have lost touch with reality. They believe that the iPod, Mini, and iMac will prevail, and users will keep returning for the Barbi computer. Apple has become Naive. Without a core computer that shows what they are made of they have nothing to stand on. Their OS will not be the makings of their future without a performance workstation to set the pace of new technology to come in their other products.



    My 2¢




    Are you trolling here? It sure smells like it to me.
  • Reply 11 of 69
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,259member
    This post is in the wrong forum.



    After reading through I don't think the original poster has made much of a case supporting their thesis statement.



    "Why is Apple in trouble?" I can't see why nor do I see any substantive information on where exactly Apple is behind.



    Second I don't listen to PC users for hardware advice. Especially if they use Windows. I might listen to a PC user running Linux but no way do I take advice from the typical PC user that doesn't know shit.



    I want some information and not hyperbole about how Apple's hardware offering aren't up to snuff. I keep hearing dogs bray about silly shit like PCI Express and SLI. Shit those technologies don't put any more food on the table than AGP and PCI-X.



    Someone please tell me why Power Macs are so behind even after being out for a freakin' year.





    I wish some on you would grow some fuckin' balls and put your pc loving friends in place rather than continually bend over. Shit you have a Unix based OS running on a dual proc system with two FSB that are faster than Intels fastest and your STILL complaining.



    fucking whiny Mac users. Turns my stomach.
  • Reply 12 of 69
    bigcbigc Posts: 1,224member
    I think the plan has always been to go to the cell type MP system and heat problems with the die shrink brought to light problems earleir than IBM and Apple had thought with respect to the 970 line. So instead of wasting a lot of resources fine-tuning the 970 they decided to put upgrading the 970 on hold...
  • Reply 13 of 69
    henriokhenriok Posts: 537member
    I think it's funny that the future some how is reality.
  • Reply 14 of 69
    chris cuillachris cuilla Posts: 4,825member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    This post is in the wrong forum.



    After reading through I don't think the original poster has made much of a case supporting their thesis statement.



    "Why is Apple in trouble?" I can't see why nor do I see any substantive information on where exactly Apple is behind.



    Second I don't listen to PC users for hardware advice. Especially if they use Windows. I might listen to a PC user running Linux but no way do I take advice from the typical PC user that doesn't know shit.



    I want some information and not hyperbole about how Apple's hardware offering aren't up to snuff. I keep hearing dogs bray about silly shit like PCI Express and SLI. Shit those technologies don't put any more food on the table than AGP and PCI-X.



    Someone please tell me why Power Macs are so behind even after being out for a freakin' year.





    I wish some on you would grow some fuckin' balls and put your pc loving friends in place rather than continually bend over. Shit you have a Unix based OS running on a dual proc system with two FSB that are faster than Intels fastest and your STILL complaining.



    fucking whiny Mac users. Turns my stomach.




    I wish I could find something more to say than..."amen".
  • Reply 15 of 69
    iksnooiksnoo Posts: 24member
    You know hmurchison I totally agree with you! I am a 3D modeler/animator and I work exclusively on OSX for all my needs and I work on 3d model datasets that range anywhere from 300-700mb(not counting textures, someimes GBs) Some of these files won't even open on a windows box(doens't matter how much ram I throw in them) The speed of the Dual G5(coupled with its bandwidth) is more than comparable to whatever the windows world has. Sure it may not be the absolute fastest, but it works and it does it ever so efficiently. An example: using Mental Ray as my primary renderer(or even the maya software renderer) the memory limitations posed by the(current flavor) of wndows does not allow for the rendering of these massive datasets, at all period. I currently use a dual G5(2 Ghz) and 4 Dual G5 Xserves when creating my imagery. I know when I leave at the end of the day my render passes are gonna be there, ready to composite in Shake in the morning. I then take those passes into FCP, lay in whatever sound/music finish then send out to DVD Studio Pro. I'm tired of the silly complaints when guess what I get my work done(and very fast) and I get to go home at a reasonable hour and know my rendering WILL get done.



    my two cents,



    Gary Haus
  • Reply 16 of 69
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,259member
    Gary Haus:



    You're the type of person who is actually doing something with their computer that generates income. This mindset is far different than the person building a computer for bragging rights.



    I'm continually told that Powermac architecture is old and pathetic but the reality is that when the Powermac debuted almost a year ago it was far beyond what the typical PC offered.



    Dual Gighertz FSB.

    Hyperstransport links

    PCI-X and FW800



    It's been almost a year and the PC motherboards are just now starting to catch up. Judging from the products that are coming out it seems that PCI Express is still a non-issue for hardware developers. At NAB going on right now I'm still seeing PCI-X as the preferred card. The new SATA card systems use PCI-X because PCI doesn't support the throughput needed for 8 150MBs channels.



    I agree with Onlooker that right now OS X needs some high-end Nvidia cards. Bringing the Quadro and FireGL lines to OSX would be nice. SLI would be nice but I'm not going to slit my wrist if it doesn't happen either.



    Often I find that the person complaining about computer hardware generally doesn't have a firm grasp hardware in general. I'm no specialist myself but I try to at least have a working knowledge what technologies are out there. I'm also pragmatic about the industry. Too often we are sold the "sizzle" and not the steak. The question needs to be "can I make more money with this technology?" if that answer is no then it's time to rethink the value of that "upgrade"



    We know that new hardware is coming. Mac users just tend to get antsy at the end of a cycle and you see more "doom and gloom" threads than normal. It's only natural because these people don't have workflows that are finely tuned like many in the 3D, Audio and Video industries. Meaning they don't have to fret over just how this upgrade is going to affect their "comfort zone" and workflow.



    Folks it's not the tool generally it's the artist. The more time we spend yapping about dual core pentiums and opterons the less we are being productive. I'm guilty to. I wouldn't have damn near 5000 posts if I was out capturing more video and getting ready to build a little audio/video home studio.
  • Reply 17 of 69
    iksnooiksnoo Posts: 24member
    Higher end workstation cards would def. be very NICE! All the other points you made are perfectly valid. In addition the workflow from a software standpoint and an OS standpoint really can't be matched. I started 3D on SGI machines back in 92 and even worked on $350,000 desk side Onyx worksations and all I gotta say is I'm still on UNIX and these things(970 based machines) just totally work well, and at the end of the day that is ALL that matters. Sure 'having-the-fastest-latest-tech' box is cool and it would be nice to have faster/more powerful GPUs and even CPUs, but I get my work done and I get it done WELL and FAST! Thanks for your points. Now back to work...



    Cheers,



    Gary Haus
  • Reply 18 of 69
    algolalgol Posts: 833member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by onlooker

    Everybody knows I think their hardware has become a joke. They have lost touch with reality. They believe that the iPod, Mini, and iMac will prevail, and users will keep returning for the Barbi computer. Apple has become Naive. Without a core computer that shows what they are made of they have nothing to stand on. Their OS will not be the makings of their future without a performance workstation to set the pace of new technology to come in their other products.



    My 2¢




    well if it's a joke i don't get it. Everything looks fine to me. If you look at apple's quarterly results most people don't seem to have any real problems with current hardware. Apple's whole lineup is in need of an update. It's all coming up soon I promise. But just because they're hardware needs to be updated doesn't mean it's the end of the world.



    One thing is for sure, Apple's current lineup is no where near as bad as it was back in the G4 PowerMac days.
  • Reply 19 of 69
    dfilerdfiler Posts: 3,420member
    OMG!

    Apple teh dOOmed!!!!!!111







    It's just a fact of life that one company won't always have the best price/performance ratio all of the time... or even most of the time. Hell, if apple can even come close, they're competative, considering that they've got other selling points.
  • Reply 20 of 69
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    hmurchison you keep saying that PCI-E is a non issue for hardware developers, but all I see is PCI-E on Nvidia, and ATI's best cards. All anybody wants it for is graphics right now anyway. So why is that such a non issue? NForce4 Pro - side by side with a PowerMac G5 motherboard - Can you list the feature differences for both?
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