The expectations on these boards has gotten ridiculous.
I "expect" PCI Express because that's what the industry has moved on to.
I wouldn't mind seeing SLI but Macs aren't really gaming rigs so I wouldn't be suprised to see no SLI support
I don't expect 3GHz G5s
I don't mind if we don't have Dual Core processors because we have had DP systems for a while and I doubt Apple goes to offering Quad Core systems at prices that AI mavens will like.
I'd like to see another drive bay added.
The overreactions on this board are funny really. It's typical season on AI for end of life Powermacs. People get antsy...chicken little arrives and ye of little faith lose the last remaining they have.
It's a laugher really. Hey the next Powermacs will be what they are. I'm buying something regardless. I'm not waiting for some mythical "perfect" computer.
This is getting funny. We are down to the wire on new systems., and we'll probably get them at WWDC. Suddenly it's doomsday because TS says something, and people are filling in line to agree with them. It's a rumor site you puts-wagon joining freaks. Jesus man remember your gender.
I think the only thing worth pointing out is PC's are going Dual Core, they are using PCI-E for graphics, they have 5.1 sound built in, and more drive bays, and expansion. Now the part worth pointing out is Apple knows it. I'm pretty sure they have known it for a while, and have been probably working it out. They obviously don't want to look like fools with their products getting such good press, and high acclaim right now. That alone leads me to believe that Apple wont release an update that is technologically 2 years old in the PC world for their next (they call it) pro machine. Do you really think they are that stupid? It would end all praise in all markets for them. No one (fanatic, or not) could respect them in any means after words. How could they? Technology doesn't take a break, and it never stops advancing no matter what happens. When CPU's were in slow rise Apple developed a technology called Core Image that took advantage of the GPU instead of the CPU to keep their progress moving forward in anyway they could. I myself doubt this supposed level of stupidity out of Apple. I doubt they will give up dual inboard/outboard motors because they decided oars would be more proficient. Bottom line. It just doesn't make sense.
The expectations on these boards has gotten ridiculous.
I "expect" PCI Express because that's what the industry has moved on to.
I wouldn't mind seeing SLI but Macs aren't really gaming rigs so I wouldn't be suprised to see no SLI support
I don't expect 3GHz G5s
I don't mind if we don't have Dual Core processors because we have had DP systems for a while and I doubt Apple goes to offering Quad Core systems at prices that AI mavens will like.
I'd like to see another drive bay added.
The overreactions on this board are funny really. It's typical season on AI for end of life Powermacs. People get antsy...chicken little arrives and ye of little faith lose the last remaining they have.
It's a laugher really. Hey the next Powermacs will be what they are. I'm buying something regardless. I'm not waiting for some mythical "perfect" computer.
Here here hmurch!!!!
I've been watching this forum for the last month or so and the level of insanity has left me shaking my head on more than on occasion. Hey, if you guys/gals don't want to shell out for the 2.5 Gig because you might get .0009ns faster 3D rendering on a 3Gig machine, then more power to you.
With the amount of hand-wringing and teeth gnashing here you'd think that the REV A and B PowerMacs were:
1- falling over dead
2- running off with your porn stash and checking account number for a weekend in Vegas
Hey, here's a thought for the perpetually pessimistic, rather than fumigate this forum with your absolutely idiotic and unrealistic expectations, then with a cloud of doom and gloom negativism when your expectations don't come true, why don't you just break down and BUY a Windoze machine so you can play Doom3 and clean viruses/spyware instead of getting work done.
I am afraid that I lost you. What's that it doesn't make sense?
Apple, and TS's speculation. Or TS reports so they lead you to believe. I just don't think Apple is that stupid. Their decision to develop Core Image when It looked like CPU's may stand still for a while So Apple could increase their speed any way they could, and gain in on the competition.
So they have proven to me they have not been relaxing in competitive drive, and spirit this whole time, but suddenly they decide it's time to do just that. (???) It doesn't make any sense to me. Therefore TS is making no sense to me either.
Post # "1941" (all time favorite movie).
December 7th, 1941 - One of the worst days in American history.
Apple just markets, repackages, and writes good code. Everything else they sell was/is made by some other company.
You can say Apple makes the best stuff out there, you can say they write good code and sell good products.. You can't say, however, that they're anywhere close to being "innovative." Apple are the engineers and marketers, they simply buy the innovators.
I think you misunderstand what innovation is. In what way is packaging other people's ideas in a new way not innovative? Innovation doesn't require developing the entire line of a product with full integration just a single stage in a new way.
Classic example that springs to my mind was the dynamic lifter of old. It was released at a time when fertilizer was something you bought only from very specific gardening stores in usually large amounts. The innovation the company made was simply to package it in such a way that targeted women who were doing their grocery shopping. They also the continued to develop the product to target a specific market in new ways. It was definitely a massive innovation for the industry because it completely changed the shape of it.
Point is implementation matters as much as the idea itself. If you go to the manufacturing industries simply making an adjustment to compositions or order can do the trick. You aren't playing with anything that hasn't been done before just taking it the next step.
You're taking a somewhat narrow view on innovation, to the extent that it would be almost non-existant in the world. If ever you are even remotely considering management you'll want to look at that or else you'll end up massively stifling your workers.
Yes I DO expect it. And if you can't deliver on that then you lower your prices, add more features 400GB hard drives, Dual layer burners (so 2 years ago), and bump the ram up LOTS.
Quote:
Originally posted by quamb
Apple's top line products are taking ages to come out, no doubt. Though since when was Apple the king of technology? Do you expect Apple to be making breakthroughs and godlike feats of engineering every year?
Come on. Lighten up.
They are just another company, that make great products. Just like sony, pioneer, nintendo etc, who also aren't releasing spectacular hardware all the time. And those guys aren't a "sad reality" either.
Yes I DO expect it. And if you can't deliver on that then you lower your prices, add more features 400GB hard drives, Dual layer burners (so 2 years ago), and bump the ram up LOTS.
That's specwhore'ism. DL drives haven't been available for 2 years and 400GB drives really aren't needed by many people. Sure if they were free I'd we'd all take them but everything Apple adds in costs money.
Apple's prices really aren't out of whack that much. People just fequently make the mistake of comparing Powermacs to consumer PCs without fully understanding the difference.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The only way to fall behind in the hardware arena is to make a grave mistake. Natural evolution and inertia will keep you in the hunt.
Hell 2 years ago IBM was putting out press papers talking about 10,000GHZ systems and Intel's roadmap had the Tejas chips at 7GHz in 2006. Today we know better. The industry had to correct itself but sadly these kind of antics have fostered expectations that are unobtainable now.
I'm totally fine with 2.7Ghz. Add PCI Express to that for futureproofing and there's not much you couldn't do. Apple's reality is actually pretty damn good.
That's specwhore'ism. DL drives haven't been available for 2 years and 400GB drives really aren't needed by many people. Sure if they were free I'd we'd all take them but everything Apple adds in costs money.
Apple's prices really aren't out of whack that much. People just fequently make the mistake of comparing Powermacs to consumer PCs without fully understanding the difference.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The only way to fall behind in the hardware arena is to make a grave mistake. Natural evolution and inertia will keep you in the hunt.
Hell 2 years ago IBM was putting out press papers talking about 10,000GHZ systems and Intel's roadmap had the Tejas chips at 7GHz in 2006. Today we know better. The industry had to correct itself but sadly these kind of antics have fostered expectations that are unobtainable now.
I'm totally fine with 2.7Ghz. Add PCI Express to that for futureproofing and there's not much you couldn't do. Apple's reality is actually pretty damn good.
I agree with you. 2.7Ghz isn't all that bad if it is coupled with some other improvements. I think the main thing is PCIe, even if not much use now, and better graphic cards around the board. 9600-9800XT at least should come standard on models. I think the majority of you are being unduly pessimistic and negative. I'm guessing most people complaining don't even use or own a powerMac G5. If you did you would have a hard time understanding why they need to be faster. I just really don't think dual dual core powermacs are needed.
1. Dual cores will have lower frequencies. For many apps this will hurt performance. A lot of ported apps don't have good multi-processor support.
2. PCIe- no real improvement right now from AGP 8x. Look at the benchmarks and you will notice miniscule differences. Most games don't even stress 4x bandwidth.
3. A Dual core 970 is going to cost more to manufacture, and IBM will surely mark it up as a dual core chip is bleeding tech. Do we want more expensive powermacs? Many of us have a hard time buying the current powermacs as they are so expensive. How many of us actually need the equivalent of 4 CPUs?
4. You all want DDR2 in the next powermacs. Have you looked at the benchmarks? DDR2 has a very small performance increase over all. Sure there are some instances where it is very useful but for the most part it is just expensive. I'm sure a few of you were shocked when you looked at DDR400 prices. I got a good deal, and you can if you are careful, but for the most part it's 150 USD for a 512 stick. I'm guessing DDR2 will cost more? I mean look at quality RAM and compare prices.
Now ask yourself. Does apple want to spend tons of money on a new Mobo when all its features are going to have such a small impact on overall performance. I suspect we wont see a new mobo until we see a new processor. IF TS is right about the CPU I doubt the mobo will have changed.
This sounded like a pretty general topic, but it has quickly gotten bogged down in details like PCI-E and so on. More generally, I think there is an open question about the future direction of Apple the company.
I hate it when people take one Jobs quote out of context and make it gospel, but back when Jobs was with NEXT, and asked what he would do if he was in charge of apple, he said he would ride the Mac for all it was worth to generate revenue for the next big thing. Well, I think that is exactly what happened, and the next big thing is the iPod. Didn't they sell like 5 times as many ipods as macs last quarter?
From our current position, maybe what the interviewer should have asked is: Once you've got the next big thing, what happens to the mac?
This sounded like a pretty general topic, but it has quickly gotten bogged down in details like PCI-E and so on. More generally, I think there is an open question about the future direction of Apple the company.
I hate it when people take one Jobs quote out of context and make it gospel, but back when Jobs was with NEXT, and asked what he would do if he was in charge of apple, he said he would ride the Mac for all it was worth to generate revenue for the next big thing. Well, I think that is exactly what happened, and the next big thing is the iPod. Didn't they sell like 5 times as many ipods as macs last quarter?
From our current position, maybe what the interviewer should have asked is: Once you've got the next big thing, what happens to the mac?
yup, failedmathematician has directed us back on topic
the reason for pesimissm, and area of interest lies around the Power- line of Macs.
if you want to talk about maintaining quarterly revenue and profits in the Power line, Powerbooks have 1 more update within the G4 range before G5 or dual-core G4, so they're alright given that the recent update drove up numbers
The PowerMac line though appears to be ailing a bit in terms of units and revenues, and this is the cause of concern. Yes, by no means does it threaten Apple as such, because of the larger financial contribution of non PowerMac sources of revenue.
Apple's big foray into pushing h.264 very early and pushing hardcore into video production has at its core the goal of selling PowerMac G5s along with the software.
IMHO
1. apple is alright, but shareholders, analysts, the board of directors, and steve jobs will be looking at the powerMac g5 *financial* numbers closely this year
2. they will be closely watching the impact of Tiger and high-def on sales of PowerMac g5s... i think they want to get by with as high a profit margin as possible on PowerMac g5s without having to ride it very very hard such as pushing to 3ghz, dual-layer dvd burners, hddvd/blu-ray burners, 1GB ram standard, etc... i don't think they're willing to take this risk just yet because if it doesn't pan out it looks bad for the whole company and brand image
3. i just wanted to throw some financial stuff into the discussion to help focus our thoughts a bit, if that helps.
4. personally, my 'artistic' experience with the g5 is that it is a great, fast machine. people that haven't personally used it to create video, music or designs, write it off because it seems (?) more expensive, bigger, not higher than 2.5 ghz. but as some have mentioned, a dual-2ghz g5 with 2gb of ram is a very very productive machine, and will handle high-def very very well especially with tiger and quicktime 7 now.
5. if there is any area of concern, i don't think apple is doomed by any stretch of the imagination but they would need to look at the PowerMac G5's "image problem" if Apple is worried about this area. i think graphic+web designers are 'defecting' to PCs because of perceived better performance for given cost, that's why Apple is focusing on video and high-def to nurture a new PowerMac G5 customer base
6. lastly, and thanks for indulging me, personally i thought powerbooks were f*cked brand-image-wise because they're 'stuck' at sub-2ghz G4, but jan-march unit and revenue figures prove that it has been revitalised. apple just might be able to pull this off with the PowerMac line
(chart i made from macobserver.com percentage calculations)
Comments
Originally posted by Jared
I am not asking for the fastest workstation on earth, but one that will really show their true potential with both their hardware and their software.
Pardon my ignorance, but this is not what we have right now?
Originally posted by PB
Pardon my ignorance, but this is not what we have right now?
nop
Originally posted by onlooker
nop
Well
I "expect" PCI Express because that's what the industry has moved on to.
I wouldn't mind seeing SLI but Macs aren't really gaming rigs so I wouldn't be suprised to see no SLI support
I don't expect 3GHz G5s
I don't mind if we don't have Dual Core processors because we have had DP systems for a while and I doubt Apple goes to offering Quad Core systems at prices that AI mavens will like.
I'd like to see another drive bay added.
The overreactions on this board are funny really. It's typical season on AI for end of life Powermacs. People get antsy...chicken little arrives and ye of little faith lose the last remaining they have.
It's a laugher really. Hey the next Powermacs will be what they are. I'm buying something regardless. I'm not waiting for some mythical "perfect" computer.
Originally posted by hmurchison
I'm not waiting for some mythical "perfect" computer.
Steve is.
Originally posted by Not Unlike Myself
Steve is.
Who's that
I think the only thing worth pointing out is PC's are going Dual Core, they are using PCI-E for graphics, they have 5.1 sound built in, and more drive bays, and expansion. Now the part worth pointing out is Apple knows it. I'm pretty sure they have known it for a while, and have been probably working it out. They obviously don't want to look like fools with their products getting such good press, and high acclaim right now. That alone leads me to believe that Apple wont release an update that is technologically 2 years old in the PC world for their next (they call it) pro machine. Do you really think they are that stupid? It would end all praise in all markets for them. No one (fanatic, or not) could respect them in any means after words. How could they? Technology doesn't take a break, and it never stops advancing no matter what happens. When CPU's were in slow rise Apple developed a technology called Core Image that took advantage of the GPU instead of the CPU to keep their progress moving forward in anyway they could. I myself doubt this supposed level of stupidity out of Apple. I doubt they will give up dual inboard/outboard motors because they decided oars would be more proficient. Bottom line. It just doesn't make sense.
Originally posted by hmurchison
The expectations on these boards has gotten ridiculous.
I "expect" PCI Express because that's what the industry has moved on to.
I wouldn't mind seeing SLI but Macs aren't really gaming rigs so I wouldn't be suprised to see no SLI support
I don't expect 3GHz G5s
I don't mind if we don't have Dual Core processors because we have had DP systems for a while and I doubt Apple goes to offering Quad Core systems at prices that AI mavens will like.
I'd like to see another drive bay added.
The overreactions on this board are funny really. It's typical season on AI for end of life Powermacs. People get antsy...chicken little arrives and ye of little faith lose the last remaining they have.
It's a laugher really. Hey the next Powermacs will be what they are. I'm buying something regardless. I'm not waiting for some mythical "perfect" computer.
Here here hmurch!!!!
I've been watching this forum for the last month or so and the level of insanity has left me shaking my head on more than on occasion. Hey, if you guys/gals don't want to shell out for the 2.5 Gig because you might get .0009ns faster 3D rendering on a 3Gig machine, then more power to you.
With the amount of hand-wringing and teeth gnashing here you'd think that the REV A and B PowerMacs were:
1- falling over dead
2- running off with your porn stash and checking account number for a weekend in Vegas
Hey, here's a thought for the perpetually pessimistic, rather than fumigate this forum with your absolutely idiotic and unrealistic expectations, then with a cloud of doom and gloom negativism when your expectations don't come true, why don't you just break down and BUY a Windoze machine so you can play Doom3 and clean viruses/spyware instead of getting work done.
Originally posted by onlooker
Bottom line. It just doesn't make sense.
I am afraid that I lost you. What's that it doesn't make sense?
Originally posted by onlooker
This is getting funny.
...
It just doesn't make sense.
Well, and what would make sense?
The sky is falling?
We had better permanently glue that tinfoil to our heads if we want to remain safe while not having the fastest computer on the planet.
Originally posted by PB
I am afraid that I lost you. What's that it doesn't make sense?
Apple, and TS's speculation. Or TS reports so they lead you to believe. I just don't think Apple is that stupid. Their decision to develop Core Image when It looked like CPU's may stand still for a while So Apple could increase their speed any way they could, and gain in on the competition.
So they have proven to me they have not been relaxing in competitive drive, and spirit this whole time, but suddenly they decide it's time to do just that. (???) It doesn't make any sense to me. Therefore TS is making no sense to me either.
Post # "1941" (all time favorite movie).
December 7th, 1941 - One of the worst days in American history.
Originally posted by slughead
Apple just markets, repackages, and writes good code. Everything else they sell was/is made by some other company.
You can say Apple makes the best stuff out there, you can say they write good code and sell good products.. You can't say, however, that they're anywhere close to being "innovative." Apple are the engineers and marketers, they simply buy the innovators.
I think you misunderstand what innovation is. In what way is packaging other people's ideas in a new way not innovative? Innovation doesn't require developing the entire line of a product with full integration just a single stage in a new way.
Classic example that springs to my mind was the dynamic lifter of old. It was released at a time when fertilizer was something you bought only from very specific gardening stores in usually large amounts. The innovation the company made was simply to package it in such a way that targeted women who were doing their grocery shopping. They also the continued to develop the product to target a specific market in new ways. It was definitely a massive innovation for the industry because it completely changed the shape of it.
Point is implementation matters as much as the idea itself. If you go to the manufacturing industries simply making an adjustment to compositions or order can do the trick. You aren't playing with anything that hasn't been done before just taking it the next step.
You're taking a somewhat narrow view on innovation, to the extent that it would be almost non-existant in the world. If ever you are even remotely considering management you'll want to look at that or else you'll end up massively stifling your workers.
Originally posted by quamb
Apple's top line products are taking ages to come out, no doubt. Though since when was Apple the king of technology? Do you expect Apple to be making breakthroughs and godlike feats of engineering every year?
Come on. Lighten up.
They are just another company, that make great products. Just like sony, pioneer, nintendo etc, who also aren't releasing spectacular hardware all the time. And those guys aren't a "sad reality" either.
Yes I DO expect it. And if you can't deliver on that then you lower your prices, add more features 400GB hard drives, Dual layer burners (so 2 years ago), and bump the ram up LOTS.
That's specwhore'ism. DL drives haven't been available for 2 years and 400GB drives really aren't needed by many people. Sure if they were free I'd we'd all take them but everything Apple adds in costs money.
Apple's prices really aren't out of whack that much. People just fequently make the mistake of comparing Powermacs to consumer PCs without fully understanding the difference.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The only way to fall behind in the hardware arena is to make a grave mistake. Natural evolution and inertia will keep you in the hunt.
Hell 2 years ago IBM was putting out press papers talking about 10,000GHZ systems and Intel's roadmap had the Tejas chips at 7GHz in 2006. Today we know better. The industry had to correct itself but sadly these kind of antics have fostered expectations that are unobtainable now.
I'm totally fine with 2.7Ghz. Add PCI Express to that for futureproofing and there's not much you couldn't do. Apple's reality is actually pretty damn good.
Originally posted by hmurchison
That's specwhore'ism. DL drives haven't been available for 2 years and 400GB drives really aren't needed by many people. Sure if they were free I'd we'd all take them but everything Apple adds in costs money.
Apple's prices really aren't out of whack that much. People just fequently make the mistake of comparing Powermacs to consumer PCs without fully understanding the difference.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The only way to fall behind in the hardware arena is to make a grave mistake. Natural evolution and inertia will keep you in the hunt.
Hell 2 years ago IBM was putting out press papers talking about 10,000GHZ systems and Intel's roadmap had the Tejas chips at 7GHz in 2006. Today we know better. The industry had to correct itself but sadly these kind of antics have fostered expectations that are unobtainable now.
I'm totally fine with 2.7Ghz. Add PCI Express to that for futureproofing and there's not much you couldn't do. Apple's reality is actually pretty damn good.
I agree with you. 2.7Ghz isn't all that bad if it is coupled with some other improvements. I think the main thing is PCIe, even if not much use now, and better graphic cards around the board. 9600-9800XT at least should come standard on models. I think the majority of you are being unduly pessimistic and negative. I'm guessing most people complaining don't even use or own a powerMac G5. If you did you would have a hard time understanding why they need to be faster. I just really don't think dual dual core powermacs are needed.
1. Dual cores will have lower frequencies. For many apps this will hurt performance. A lot of ported apps don't have good multi-processor support.
2. PCIe- no real improvement right now from AGP 8x. Look at the benchmarks and you will notice miniscule differences. Most games don't even stress 4x bandwidth.
3. A Dual core 970 is going to cost more to manufacture, and IBM will surely mark it up as a dual core chip is bleeding tech. Do we want more expensive powermacs? Many of us have a hard time buying the current powermacs as they are so expensive. How many of us actually need the equivalent of 4 CPUs?
4. You all want DDR2 in the next powermacs. Have you looked at the benchmarks? DDR2 has a very small performance increase over all. Sure there are some instances where it is very useful but for the most part it is just expensive. I'm sure a few of you were shocked when you looked at DDR400 prices. I got a good deal, and you can if you are careful, but for the most part it's 150 USD for a 512 stick. I'm guessing DDR2 will cost more? I mean look at quality RAM and compare prices.
Now ask yourself. Does apple want to spend tons of money on a new Mobo when all its features are going to have such a small impact on overall performance. I suspect we wont see a new mobo until we see a new processor. IF TS is right about the CPU I doubt the mobo will have changed.
I hate it when people take one Jobs quote out of context and make it gospel, but back when Jobs was with NEXT, and asked what he would do if he was in charge of apple, he said he would ride the Mac for all it was worth to generate revenue for the next big thing. Well, I think that is exactly what happened, and the next big thing is the iPod. Didn't they sell like 5 times as many ipods as macs last quarter?
From our current position, maybe what the interviewer should have asked is: Once you've got the next big thing, what happens to the mac?
Originally posted by failedmathematician
This sounded like a pretty general topic, but it has quickly gotten bogged down in details like PCI-E and so on. More generally, I think there is an open question about the future direction of Apple the company.
I hate it when people take one Jobs quote out of context and make it gospel, but back when Jobs was with NEXT, and asked what he would do if he was in charge of apple, he said he would ride the Mac for all it was worth to generate revenue for the next big thing. Well, I think that is exactly what happened, and the next big thing is the iPod. Didn't they sell like 5 times as many ipods as macs last quarter?
From our current position, maybe what the interviewer should have asked is: Once you've got the next big thing, what happens to the mac?
NICE!
Originally posted by onlooker
NICE!
yup, failedmathematician has directed us back on topic
the reason for pesimissm, and area of interest lies around the Power- line of Macs.
if you want to talk about maintaining quarterly revenue and profits in the Power line, Powerbooks have 1 more update within the G4 range before G5 or dual-core G4, so they're alright given that the recent update drove up numbers
The PowerMac line though appears to be ailing a bit in terms of units and revenues, and this is the cause of concern. Yes, by no means does it threaten Apple as such, because of the larger financial contribution of non PowerMac sources of revenue.
Apple's big foray into pushing h.264 very early and pushing hardcore into video production has at its core the goal of selling PowerMac G5s along with the software.
IMHO
1. apple is alright, but shareholders, analysts, the board of directors, and steve jobs will be looking at the powerMac g5 *financial* numbers closely this year
2. they will be closely watching the impact of Tiger and high-def on sales of PowerMac g5s... i think they want to get by with as high a profit margin as possible on PowerMac g5s without having to ride it very very hard such as pushing to 3ghz, dual-layer dvd burners, hddvd/blu-ray burners, 1GB ram standard, etc... i don't think they're willing to take this risk just yet because if it doesn't pan out it looks bad for the whole company and brand image
3. i just wanted to throw some financial stuff into the discussion to help focus our thoughts a bit, if that helps.
4. personally, my 'artistic' experience with the g5 is that it is a great, fast machine. people that haven't personally used it to create video, music or designs, write it off because it seems (?) more expensive, bigger, not higher than 2.5 ghz. but as some have mentioned, a dual-2ghz g5 with 2gb of ram is a very very productive machine, and will handle high-def very very well especially with tiger and quicktime 7 now.
5. if there is any area of concern, i don't think apple is doomed by any stretch of the imagination but they would need to look at the PowerMac G5's "image problem" if Apple is worried about this area. i think graphic+web designers are 'defecting' to PCs because of perceived better performance for given cost, that's why Apple is focusing on video and high-def to nurture a new PowerMac G5 customer base
6. lastly, and thanks for indulging me, personally i thought powerbooks were f*cked brand-image-wise because they're 'stuck' at sub-2ghz G4, but jan-march unit and revenue figures prove that it has been revitalised. apple just might be able to pull this off with the PowerMac line
(chart i made from macobserver.com percentage calculations)