I think what's amazing about this article is that there is literally no information. We're told by 3 companies that they expect production costs to be the same as DVD yet they explain nothing. I'm just supposed to take their word for it right? Not.
Please explain how HD-DVD is any different. Where have they stated firm prices on production costs? Where is this deluge of information on HD-DVD pricing? Why is it okay to take the word of the HD-DVD group but not the Blu-Ray group? It's not Toshiba vs Sony. It's more like Toshiba vs everyone else. Oh, and reducing the steps necessary in the Blu-Ray production line is where the savings come in. 11 steps down to 5. They explained it very clearly actually.
Please explain how HD-DVD is any different. Where have they stated firm prices on production costs? Where is this deluge of information on HD-DVD pricing? Why is it okay to take the word of the HD-DVD group but not the Blu-Ray group? It's not Toshiba vs Sony. It's more like Toshiba vs everyone else. Oh, and reducing the steps necessary in the Blu-Ray production line is where the savings come in. 11 steps down to 5. They explained it very clearly actually.
I have no real interest in either spec right now, but HD-DVD's processes are supposed to be quite close to existing DVD production. The Blu-Ray spec is the one that diverges greatly from existing lines.
Which is why Blu-Ray is the one being asked for a higher standard of proof on production costs.
It is Sony that has to prove their tech is ready for primetime. I find it odd that people think Blu-Ray is some sort of default winner when.
1. Sony hasn't even alluded to the pricing of BD players. Toshiba has stated that players will be $1000 or less.
2. Sony hasn't announced one pre-recorded disc. No content has been announced.
3. Everyone thinks Apple is some Blu-Ray honk but the reality is DVD Studio Pro 4 support HD-DVD authoring right "now". Another hint that HD-DVD is an easier platform to produce for
Thus we have HD-DVD as the best bridge to bring consumer from DVD to HD. Yet because it doesn't have "geek" appeal the technorati can't wrap this simplicity around their massive heads.
I want low cost HD pre-recorded content. Both formats satisfy that desire albeit forcing me to buy more players and inconvenience.
Dutch Pear - I haven't looked in depth but I think the Iomega stuff will be pretty far out and I can't see them making these for under $4000. I just had the wind taken out of my sails concerning HVD when I found it it will be really expensive. Optical losers they've been trying to sell against hard drives for years and losing pitifully.
1. What's the point in announcing prices at least 6 months prior to any real sales?
2. The BR group doesn't need to show proof to consumers about why their production costs are better or worse. The consumer isn't important. They only need to show the manufacturers of the discs, which they can do in private technical meetings.
The whole lot of you are a bit too hung up on press releases, that are meaningless drivel. The reality is from the products that have actually been shown BR has notably outperformed HD-DVD in terms of quality.
1. What's the point in announcing prices at least 6 months prior to any real sales?
Because $1000 or more is an expensive purchase for consumers. It's just a courteous gesture to give them a foggy idea about how much you intend to charge. I'm not saying Sony has to really but without this pertinent info it makes it hard for me accept the "Blu-Ray has won this war already" when the person saying this hasn't an inkling what it costs.
The only report I've heard was some game programmer writing about colors smearing. Took that with a LARGE grain of salt. Neither format should be better than the other provided the chipsets they use are equivalent quality.
The demo I saw of HD-DVD suffered colour bleed and artifacting issues. That was a while back so they may or may not have corrected some of that.
Sorry but preannouncing prices at this stage is pointless. You can announce it a month out and it makes no difference to the consumer. At this stage they should be talking to the manufacturers and OEMs and content providers, although I doubt exclusive content will last long.
I suspect BR will win simply because there is far too much money behind it and the PS3 promises to drive it into a lot of homes. Every major computer manufacturer and the biggest CE companies all behind it. Toshiba and Sanyo just aren't the sort of companies who can battle that.
Because $1000 or more is an expensive purchase for consumers. It's just a courteous gesture to give them a foggy idea about how much you intend to charge. I'm not saying Sony has to really but without this pertinent info it makes it hard for me accept the "Blu-Ray has won this war already" when the person saying this hasn't an inkling what it costs.
We already know that the PS3 v1 will cost less than half that amount and it will do a lot more than just play movies. The demos I've seen of Blu-Ray just killed the HD-DVD demos. Same problems with motion artifacts and color bleeding. Maybe they have improved upon this since then but with Blu-Ray's significantly larger capacity you don't have limits on bitrate if that was the reason. Maybe Blu-Ray was better for more than just that reason. More power to them then. People who buy HDTV sets do care about picture quality by the way.
Even Amir from AVS who works for Microsoft says that VC-1 has a diminishing scale of performance after 15Mbps or so. I don't think a super high bitrate is going to make a huge difference in anything other than MPEG2.
I'm thinking that HD-DVD prototypes were problem using some raw decoding asics. However if these anomalies persist you can definitely bet that I and many others won't be buying that 1st generation stuff.
I'm thinking that HD-DVD prototypes were problem using some raw decoding asics. However if these anomalies persist you can definitely bet that I and many others won't be buying that 1st generation stuff.
Haven't Blu-ray and HD-DVD both converged on H.264 at this point? Can there be any meaningful discussion of which format "looks better" than the other?
Given the same bit rate, and all else which has nothing to do with the difference between the HD and BD specs being equal (encoders, decoders, video hardware), picture quality should be completely identical, with only potential playback time and capacity for extras being different.
Haven't Blu-ray and HD-DVD both converged on H.264 at this point? Can there be any meaningful discussion of which format "looks better" than the other?
Given the same bit rate, and all else which has nothing to do with the difference between the HD and BD specs being equal (encoders, decoders, video hardware), picture quality should be completely identical, with only potential playback time and capacity for extras being different.
It should be but it appears that HD-DVD's hardware just hasn't been of the same standard. Someone explained the actual cause to me at one stage but I've completely forgotten, sorry.
It should be but it appears that HD-DVD's hardware just hasn't been of the same standard. Someone explained the actual cause to me at one stage but I've completely forgotten, sorry.
DVD players are all the same standard, and I have noticed vast differences in picture quality between different units.
Comments
Originally posted by hmurchison
I think what's amazing about this article is that there is literally no information. We're told by 3 companies that they expect production costs to be the same as DVD yet they explain nothing. I'm just supposed to take their word for it right? Not.
Please explain how HD-DVD is any different. Where have they stated firm prices on production costs? Where is this deluge of information on HD-DVD pricing? Why is it okay to take the word of the HD-DVD group but not the Blu-Ray group? It's not Toshiba vs Sony. It's more like Toshiba vs everyone else. Oh, and reducing the steps necessary in the Blu-Ray production line is where the savings come in. 11 steps down to 5. They explained it very clearly actually.
Originally posted by 1984
Please explain how HD-DVD is any different. Where have they stated firm prices on production costs? Where is this deluge of information on HD-DVD pricing? Why is it okay to take the word of the HD-DVD group but not the Blu-Ray group? It's not Toshiba vs Sony. It's more like Toshiba vs everyone else. Oh, and reducing the steps necessary in the Blu-Ray production line is where the savings come in. 11 steps down to 5. They explained it very clearly actually.
I have no real interest in either spec right now, but HD-DVD's processes are supposed to be quite close to existing DVD production. The Blu-Ray spec is the one that diverges greatly from existing lines.
Which is why Blu-Ray is the one being asked for a higher standard of proof on production costs.
It is Sony that has to prove their tech is ready for primetime. I find it odd that people think Blu-Ray is some sort of default winner when.
1. Sony hasn't even alluded to the pricing of BD players. Toshiba has stated that players will be $1000 or less.
2. Sony hasn't announced one pre-recorded disc. No content has been announced.
3. Everyone thinks Apple is some Blu-Ray honk but the reality is DVD Studio Pro 4 support HD-DVD authoring right "now". Another hint that HD-DVD is an easier platform to produce for
Thus we have HD-DVD as the best bridge to bring consumer from DVD to HD. Yet because it doesn't have "geek" appeal the technorati can't wrap this simplicity around their massive heads.
I want low cost HD pre-recorded content. Both formats satisfy that desire albeit forcing me to buy more players and inconvenience.
Dutch Pear - I haven't looked in depth but I think the Iomega stuff will be pretty far out and I can't see them making these for under $4000. I just had the wind taken out of my sails concerning HVD when I found it it will be really expensive. Optical losers they've been trying to sell against hard drives for years and losing pitifully.
2. The BR group doesn't need to show proof to consumers about why their production costs are better or worse. The consumer isn't important. They only need to show the manufacturers of the discs, which they can do in private technical meetings.
The whole lot of you are a bit too hung up on press releases, that are meaningless drivel. The reality is from the products that have actually been shown BR has notably outperformed HD-DVD in terms of quality.
1. What's the point in announcing prices at least 6 months prior to any real sales?
Because $1000 or more is an expensive purchase for consumers. It's just a courteous gesture to give them a foggy idea about how much you intend to charge. I'm not saying Sony has to really but without this pertinent info it makes it hard for me accept the "Blu-Ray has won this war already" when the person saying this hasn't an inkling what it costs.
The only report I've heard was some game programmer writing about colors smearing. Took that with a LARGE grain of salt. Neither format should be better than the other provided the chipsets they use are equivalent quality.
Sorry but preannouncing prices at this stage is pointless. You can announce it a month out and it makes no difference to the consumer. At this stage they should be talking to the manufacturers and OEMs and content providers, although I doubt exclusive content will last long.
I suspect BR will win simply because there is far too much money behind it and the PS3 promises to drive it into a lot of homes. Every major computer manufacturer and the biggest CE companies all behind it. Toshiba and Sanyo just aren't the sort of companies who can battle that.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Because $1000 or more is an expensive purchase for consumers. It's just a courteous gesture to give them a foggy idea about how much you intend to charge. I'm not saying Sony has to really but without this pertinent info it makes it hard for me accept the "Blu-Ray has won this war already" when the person saying this hasn't an inkling what it costs.
We already know that the PS3 v1 will cost less than half that amount and it will do a lot more than just play movies. The demos I've seen of Blu-Ray just killed the HD-DVD demos. Same problems with motion artifacts and color bleeding. Maybe they have improved upon this since then but with Blu-Ray's significantly larger capacity you don't have limits on bitrate if that was the reason. Maybe Blu-Ray was better for more than just that reason. More power to them then. People who buy HDTV sets do care about picture quality by the way.
Even Amir from AVS who works for Microsoft says that VC-1 has a diminishing scale of performance after 15Mbps or so. I don't think a super high bitrate is going to make a huge difference in anything other than MPEG2.
I'm thinking that HD-DVD prototypes were problem using some raw decoding asics. However if these anomalies persist you can definitely bet that I and many others won't be buying that 1st generation stuff.
Originally posted by hmurchison
I'm thinking that HD-DVD prototypes were problem using some raw decoding asics. However if these anomalies persist you can definitely bet that I and many others won't be buying that 1st generation stuff.
Haven't Blu-ray and HD-DVD both converged on H.264 at this point? Can there be any meaningful discussion of which format "looks better" than the other?
Given the same bit rate, and all else which has nothing to do with the difference between the HD and BD specs being equal (encoders, decoders, video hardware), picture quality should be completely identical, with only potential playback time and capacity for extras being different.
Originally posted by shetline
Haven't Blu-ray and HD-DVD both converged on H.264 at this point? Can there be any meaningful discussion of which format "looks better" than the other?
Given the same bit rate, and all else which has nothing to do with the difference between the HD and BD specs being equal (encoders, decoders, video hardware), picture quality should be completely identical, with only potential playback time and capacity for extras being different.
It should be but it appears that HD-DVD's hardware just hasn't been of the same standard. Someone explained the actual cause to me at one stage but I've completely forgotten, sorry.
Originally posted by Telomar
It should be but it appears that HD-DVD's hardware just hasn't been of the same standard. Someone explained the actual cause to me at one stage but I've completely forgotten, sorry.
DVD players are all the same standard, and I have noticed vast differences in picture quality between different units.