When you said 'great desert' you were indeed speaking of Sahara, correct? BUT the Sahara you were speaking about ISN'T a reference to the new IBM G3 chip was it?
"A rumor is not a rumor that doesn't die"<hr></blockquote>
Apologies if I'm slow on the uptake here, but is the implication that Jobs moved the keynote a day earlier to announce Apple's tablet hours before Gates announces Microsoft's at CES?
The more I think about it, the more iPad (with its mythical screen sharing technology ) seems to be the perfect way to crystallize the Digital Hub idea.
ok - get this... ipad = imac. Imac is docked ipad: you get the idea. Jobs demos this dope imac, shows osx... bla bla bla, some new stuff. then stands up and snatches the LCD off the table while still running/playing toy story 8/ showing quake 10... not likely... but would be cool.
Also, side note... good Apple provided remote display of OSX apps would go a LONG way towards making OSX more legit in UNIX circles...
I stumbled upon this forum by accident, but now can't unglue my eyes, funny stuff. This forum and AtAT's sarcastic parodies make daily reading enjoyable. Makes me anxious, can't wait to get my first Mac.
You're hooked, buddy. At first it might seem like fun, but soon you'll be finding yourself more and more anxious as each MacWorld approaches. For some strange reason, you'll want someone to lie to you about what Steve will unveil. Oh, well, I suppose there are worse drugs.
Maybe the special offer regarding the apple LCD Displays doesn't mean that new sizes will be introduced, but new types of displays capable to do what have been discribed above will be launched...Why the Imac would be the only machine to be able to use this new technology?
I believe that if this kind of tablet is introduced at the expo it would be available for both Imac ans PowerMac.
And by the way the new airport technology have been introduced just few weeks ago...
I stumbled upon this forum by accident, but now can't unglue my eyes, funny stuff. This forum and AtAT's sarcastic parodies make daily reading enjoyable. Makes me anxious, can't wait to get my first Mac.
Toraq </strong><hr></blockquote>
Ditto. I've been lurking for a bit as well. This forum is way entertaining. Thanks.
what would be the possibility of having a tablet like imac that has some of the basic features of the computer (CD drive, firewire ports, usb ports, ethernet, etc...) built into a small cube like enclosure. You wouldn't need to fit everything into the tablet... just the basic things to make it run (hard drive, video card, ram... blah blah blah....) the rest of the stuff could be enclosed in a small cube. When the tablet was "docked" it could use all these things seemlessly... but then you could grab the tablet... sit on the couch and surf....
I'm still trying to figure out codenames "return of the trinity"
And yes,,, I'm addicted to this thread as well... not the others... just this one.... it's those freakin' riddles that get me!!!
<strong>I'm still trying to figure out codenames "return of the trinity"</strong><hr></blockquote>I'm reluctant to even say this, but perhaps trinity refers to Kormac's "DNA."
I'm going to do a mockup for everyone this afternoon unless somebody else gets to it first - should be relatively easy....
Imagine the new iMac as the Cube, but with a screen attached via an arm off one side...talk about a small footprint (screen doesn't need to touch the desk).
Also, in response to previous posts, I don't believe that the new iMac will feature iPad functionality in its screen out-of-the box. The touch capabilities would probably add just a bit too much to the overall cost of a consumer machine at this juncture, and general marketing theory seems to go against it. If the iPad is for those who already have a Mac, it's a way for Apple to drive revenue from those who don't want to buy a new machine (or just have), as well as appeal to all its customers (not just limit the technology to those who buy the iMac). Besides, one post identifies Dolphin as having a 12.1" screen - the new iMac is 15" or so...so I doubt we'll see Steve ripping the screen of an iMac and walking it around the stage.
Here are some more details on G5 based Mac's. The G5 does not use the MPX protocol to communicate with onboard devices but a never before used protocol called RapidIO. RapidIO is very similar to a highspeed serial bus like Firewire, but works at higher speed because it is a bus strictly for PCB (the actual motherboard). Included on die is a 333MHz 64bit memory controller for DDR-SDRAM. But the controller is flexible. It is unknown what speed the controller will run the memory in Apple machines. The 512KB L2 cache has a 256bit interface with the core that is 8-way set associate. The L3 cache interface can address up to 8MB or 16MB, I don't fully understand the docs I got on them. But it is 2 way set associative. I have little information on motherboard specifics. I also have little information on PCI specifics and this is where most of my job concentrates on. Seems very little hardware testing has been done outside Apple labs and what has is very secretive. I can only assume that the PCI bridge is not that different than past PowerMacs and therefore did not warrent excessive testing. I hope this is the case.
Another clue to a possible tablet Mac can be found in Carbon. After v1.4 Apple added a whole load of remote control functions that simulate various hardware events in software.
Currently you can simulate keystrokes (all of them), mice and scrollwheels.
Such things would make a keyboardless Mac possible, even without handwriting recognition.
First, where's the productivity apps in XWindows, next - where's the standardized interface designed for both pen and mouse computer and, even more importantly - a large set of productivity apps that adhere to that interface. Can you do basic productivity things with those apps in those environments, like, can you cut and paste between them without blowing everything up.
<stuff deleted>
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I was thinking about apps in a HWR environment... of course you don't want to have to work with apps if a stylus is all you have and the app requires heavy keyboard input. For example, I wouldn't want to write in Word, or type in Terminal. So I was making a list of common apps where it would be possible to use only a stylus:
web browsing —> doable to easy
email —> easy for reading, doable for composing short msgs
word processing —> yuk
spreadsheet —> yuk
iTunes —> easy
QuickTime Player —> easy
iMovie —> doable
Finder browsing —> easy, esp. column view
rumored 'iPhoto' —> easy
general pros: OS X scalable icons and big widgets
general cons: any fcn requiring modifier keys (although Newton had some niceties like 1-1/2 taps + drag was like an option-drag; so perhaps click-and-hold could bring up contextual menus, like FinderPop did)
Anyone care to add/edit?
[Edit: Blackcat just posted in the interim about Carbon... cool news.]
<strong>Here are some more details on G5 based Mac's. The G5 does not use the MPX protocol to communicate with onboard devices but a never before used protocol called RapidIO. RapidIO is very similar to a highspeed serial bus like Firewire, but works at higher speed because it is a bus strictly for PCB (the actual motherboard). Included on die is a 333MHz 64bit memory controller for DDR-SDRAM. But the controller is flexible. It is unknown what speed the controller will run the memory in Apple machines. The 512KB L2 cache has a 256bit interface with the core that is 8-way set associate. The L3 cache interface can address up to 8MB or 16MB, I don't fully understand the docs I got on them. But it is 2 way set associative. I have little information on motherboard specifics. I also have little information on PCI specifics and this is where most of my job concentrates on. Seems very little hardware testing has been done outside Apple labs and what has is very secretive. I can only assume that the PCI bridge is not that different than past PowerMacs and therefore did not warrent excessive testing. I hope this is the case.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm a wee bit uncertain about this L3 cache thing. If the main memory is DDR333 with an onboard controller (presumably with very low latency unless someone's screwed up again), what is attached to the L3 port? It's latency isn't going to be that much less than main memory and to get to decently higher than main memory bandwidth it would have to be 128 bits wide, requiring a very large number of pins and a lot of power to drive it. Also the doubling of L2 reduces the need for L3 and it might be faster to simply avoid the complexity of the third level controller altogether.
On current G4s the appalling memory bandwidth and latency mean an off-chip L3 is very useful, on these proposed G5 based machines it looks a bit like an unnecessary luxury.
Any info on the units in the core? or I suppose that would be too much to ask for.
[quote] general pros: OS X scalable icons and big widgets
general cons: any fcn requiring modifier keys (although Newton had some niceties like 1-1/2 taps + drag was like an option-drag; so perhaps click-and-hold could bring up contextual menus, like FinderPop did) <hr></blockquote>
The carbon functions are well thought out. Every key can be simulated up or down, so to do apple-Q you do:
Apple down
Q down
Q up
Apple up
So if a stylus driven mac had a onscreen keyboard with every key, you could do anything
Comments
Question for you...
When you said 'great desert' you were indeed speaking of Sahara, correct? BUT the Sahara you were speaking about ISN'T a reference to the new IBM G3 chip was it?
Am I getting close?
Dave
2. Gates
3. Jobs
"A rumor is not a rumor that doesn't die"<hr></blockquote>
Apologies if I'm slow on the uptake here, but is the implication that Jobs moved the keynote a day earlier to announce Apple's tablet hours before Gates announces Microsoft's at CES?
[ 12-20-2001: Message edited by: scottiB ]</p>
[ 12-20-2001: Message edited by: murk ]</p>
Also, side note... good Apple provided remote display of OSX apps would go a LONG way towards making OSX more legit in UNIX circles...
I stumbled upon this forum by accident, but now can't unglue my eyes, funny stuff. This forum and AtAT's sarcastic parodies make daily reading enjoyable. Makes me anxious, can't wait to get my first Mac.
Toraq
You're hooked, buddy. At first it might seem like fun, but soon you'll be finding yourself more and more anxious as each MacWorld approaches. For some strange reason, you'll want someone to lie to you about what Steve will unveil. Oh, well, I suppose there are worse drugs.
[ 12-20-2001: Message edited by: murk ]</p>
I believe that if this kind of tablet is introduced at the expo it would be available for both Imac ans PowerMac.
And by the way the new airport technology have been introduced just few weeks ago...
Just my two cents..
<strong>New Lurker here.
I stumbled upon this forum by accident, but now can't unglue my eyes, funny stuff. This forum and AtAT's sarcastic parodies make daily reading enjoyable. Makes me anxious, can't wait to get my first Mac.
Toraq
Ditto. I've been lurking for a bit as well. This forum is way entertaining. Thanks.
I'm still trying to figure out codenames "return of the trinity"
And yes,,, I'm addicted to this thread as well... not the others... just this one.... it's those freakin' riddles that get me!!!
<strong>I'm still trying to figure out codenames "return of the trinity"</strong><hr></blockquote>I'm reluctant to even say this, but perhaps trinity refers to Kormac's "DNA."
Ah, hell, it's just gonna be a damn iMac.
Thanks to Dorsal and Codename(and everybody else) for making a real fun thread.
I've got 400 in savings so far, a week of PTO to cash out and my upcoming tax return to put towards a new duallie/tablet system next year.
Bring on the new toys, Steve. I'm ready.
Zack
I need a life.
Imagine the new iMac as the Cube, but with a screen attached via an arm off one side...talk about a small footprint (screen doesn't need to touch the desk).
Also, in response to previous posts, I don't believe that the new iMac will feature iPad functionality in its screen out-of-the box. The touch capabilities would probably add just a bit too much to the overall cost of a consumer machine at this juncture, and general marketing theory seems to go against it. If the iPad is for those who already have a Mac, it's a way for Apple to drive revenue from those who don't want to buy a new machine (or just have), as well as appeal to all its customers (not just limit the technology to those who buy the iMac). Besides, one post identifies Dolphin as having a 12.1" screen - the new iMac is 15" or so...so I doubt we'll see Steve ripping the screen of an iMac and walking it around the stage.
Any thoughts?
-S
Currently you can simulate keystrokes (all of them), mice and scrollwheels.
Such things would make a keyboardless Mac possible, even without handwriting recognition.
Cool
Dorsal do you have any idea when the G5 will be ready??
Is January a possible release date???
<strong>
I'm glad somebody brought this up:
First, where's the productivity apps in XWindows, next - where's the standardized interface designed for both pen and mouse computer and, even more importantly - a large set of productivity apps that adhere to that interface. Can you do basic productivity things with those apps in those environments, like, can you cut and paste between them without blowing everything up.
<stuff deleted>
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I was thinking about apps in a HWR environment... of course you don't want to have to work with apps if a stylus is all you have and the app requires heavy keyboard input. For example, I wouldn't want to write in Word, or type in Terminal. So I was making a list of common apps where it would be possible to use only a stylus:
web browsing —> doable to easy
email —> easy for reading, doable for composing short msgs
word processing —> yuk
spreadsheet —> yuk
iTunes —> easy
QuickTime Player —> easy
iMovie —> doable
Finder browsing —> easy, esp. column view
rumored 'iPhoto' —> easy
general pros: OS X scalable icons and big widgets
general cons: any fcn requiring modifier keys (although Newton had some niceties like 1-1/2 taps + drag was like an option-drag; so perhaps click-and-hold could bring up contextual menus, like FinderPop did)
Anyone care to add/edit?
[Edit: Blackcat just posted in the interim about Carbon... cool news.]
[ 12-20-2001: Message edited by: chromos ]</p>
<strong>Here are some more details on G5 based Mac's. The G5 does not use the MPX protocol to communicate with onboard devices but a never before used protocol called RapidIO. RapidIO is very similar to a highspeed serial bus like Firewire, but works at higher speed because it is a bus strictly for PCB (the actual motherboard). Included on die is a 333MHz 64bit memory controller for DDR-SDRAM. But the controller is flexible. It is unknown what speed the controller will run the memory in Apple machines. The 512KB L2 cache has a 256bit interface with the core that is 8-way set associate. The L3 cache interface can address up to 8MB or 16MB, I don't fully understand the docs I got on them. But it is 2 way set associative. I have little information on motherboard specifics. I also have little information on PCI specifics and this is where most of my job concentrates on. Seems very little hardware testing has been done outside Apple labs and what has is very secretive. I can only assume that the PCI bridge is not that different than past PowerMacs and therefore did not warrent excessive testing. I hope this is the case.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm a wee bit uncertain about this L3 cache thing. If the main memory is DDR333 with an onboard controller (presumably with very low latency unless someone's screwed up again), what is attached to the L3 port? It's latency isn't going to be that much less than main memory and to get to decently higher than main memory bandwidth it would have to be 128 bits wide, requiring a very large number of pins and a lot of power to drive it. Also the doubling of L2 reduces the need for L3 and it might be faster to simply avoid the complexity of the third level controller altogether.
On current G4s the appalling memory bandwidth and latency mean an off-chip L3 is very useful, on these proposed G5 based machines it looks a bit like an unnecessary luxury.
Any info on the units in the core? or I suppose that would be too much to ask for.
Michael
general cons: any fcn requiring modifier keys (although Newton had some niceties like 1-1/2 taps + drag was like an option-drag; so perhaps click-and-hold could bring up contextual menus, like FinderPop did) <hr></blockquote>
The carbon functions are well thought out. Every key can be simulated up or down, so to do apple-Q you do:
Apple down
Q down
Q up
Apple up
So if a stylus driven mac had a onscreen keyboard with every key, you could do anything