Does anyone actually think Blu-Ray or even HD-DVD could ever equal the same sales volume by 2010 as traditional DVD's have had over the last 5 years?
Optical HD drives will be a niche gap-filler product until the masses finally make the switch to HDTV and that could take 5-10 years (or even longer on a global scale) and by then a new technology will have leapfrogged it.
If HD-DVD and Blu-Ray don't resolve their issues soon HD optical drives will only be able attain a tiny niche at best. George Lucas and others would not release their movies on traditional DVD until DVD's reached a particular mass saturation rate which might never be reached by either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. Its those same hit movies that caused the late-adopters to buy into the technology and drive DVD sales through the roof at a record pace by historical standards.
**To the average consumer the term "DVD" = "a Movie on a disc that has a good quality picture, great sound, cool extra features, and sells for $19.95 or below)."
So the term "HD-DVD" is a simple extension which most consumers would easily understand since its just adding a Hi-def picture and a higher price to the mix.
The term "Blu-Ray" based soley on a pure marketing strategy (not a technical one) would be more expensive to advertise. It would cost more to market since they would need to develope an entirely new "Blu-Ray" brand which would cause confusion since it looks like a "DVD"** to most people but it wouldnt be called a DVD.
While techy people like to call the average computer/electronics consumer stupid to make themselves feel superior, but in reality alot of people just do care enough about electronics or computers (they might be into sports, cars, and etc) and will buy whatever has the best name recognition or is the most popular with their friends or family.
It's probably best that the 2 formats *not* be marketed as DVDs since none of them work on the current crop of DVD players.
Imagine the disappointment when someone buys an HD-DVD thinking it might play on his/her 2002 DVD set-top.
Putting any mention of 'DVD' in the name makes it confusing to most people.
Good point. A different sized case would solve that... but people wouldn't like needing different storage furniture for their collections. I'll be interested in seeing how that part of the transition plays out.
Good point. A different sized case would solve that... but people wouldn't like needing different storage furniture for their collections. I'll be interested in seeing how that part of the transition plays out.
They should use an integral disk caddy, like UMD does. This would solve the problem, and make the media more durable to boot.
On the other hand, how many people had problems trying to play DVDs in CD players? The public is used to differing formats. Heck, in the beginning of the DVD era, not all players would play all DVD disks.
They should use an integral disk caddy, like UMD does. This would solve the problem, and make the media more durable to boot.
On the other hand, how many people had problems trying to play DVDs in CD players? The public is used to differing formats. Heck, in the beginning of the DVD era, not all players would play all DVD disks.
I don't think the form factor of the media is the problem. But I do think the form factor of the packaging and the name of the media would be a problem.
If the name and the box is different, there shouldn't be a lot of confusion.
That's why I think Blu-Ray has an advantage of not suckering people into thinking the Blu-Ray media works in older DVD players...while HD-DVD is out to sucker them into thinking that.
The real question however is 'when the fuck are games coming out on DVDs by default?' Games like Doom 3 and Halflife 2 which couldn't run on a computer that didn't ship with a DVD player still ship on CDs. Surely the cost of pressing 4 CDs is more than pressing a single DVD (or is it not?)
To most non-tech people a DVD = Movie on a disc just like a CD = Music on a disc.
Attempts of Super-CD's and etc have had little commercial success even though they produce better sound. This might lead one to believe that its hard to get the masses to accept another product when it looks (physical appearance not funtionality) like the one they got.
I believe that the next-gen HD format should really look different like the one person said about having UMD-like case or IMO it should goto an ipod or an ipod-like device all together.
I think SACD and DVDA failed more because CD really is good enough, and few people felt the need for more.
HD will at least be visibly better on HDTVs but they are going to be rare for another 12 months at least. I think not supporting existing hires LCD TVs is a mistake as people won't like rebuying so soon.
I think it would be cool if say....a studio makes the transition to HD in one swoop. Imagine a HD-DVD with HD content on one side.....flip it over and its a regular DVD. That way ull only ever had one version of the movie on store shelves, and consumers pick it up.....when they get home...they pop it into their DVD player and if and when they get HD capable hardwae, they can exploit it usng the same disc.
Obviously thats wishful thinking on my part, and i wouldnt be surprised if Studios try to milk the transition for all its worth by having ppl buy the movies on DVDs and then re purchace the movies on HD-DVDs/Blu Rays. Bastards.
I believe that the next-gen HD format should really look different like the one person said about having UMD-like case or IMO it should goto an ipod or an ipod-like device all together.
Are you guggesting that the movies come on Harddrives preloaded ? that would mean having a single movie on a single 30/60GB iPod in HD resolution. I wonder if HD speeds and transfer rates support HD...like does FW800 support HD content ?
Not a good idea imo...especially when you factor in the cost of the physical media.
I think it would be cool if say....a studio makes the transition to HD in one swoop. Imagine a HD-DVD with HD content on one side.....flip it over and its a regular DVD. That way ull only ever had one version of the movie on store shelves, and consumers pick it up.....when they get home...they pop it into their DVD player and if and when they get HD capable hardwae, they can exploit it usng the same disc.
Obviously thats wishful thinking on my part, and i wouldnt be surprised if Studios try to milk the transition for all its worth by having ppl buy the movies on DVDs and then re purchace the movies on HD-DVDs/Blu Rays. Bastards.
Cheers
Not as wishful as you think. That idea WAS discussed by the HD-DVD camp. I don't know if they're going to do it or not, though.
The way they described it, the hybrid disc is dual-layered and double-sided (like today's DVDs). However, the drive can read one of the layers on the other side. So you'd in effect have 3 HD-DVD layers on one side, and one standard DVD layer on the other.
One layer wouldn't be enough for movies longer than 2 hours, though. But it's adequate for the large majority of them.
Keyword, "guess." And that is exactly what this article attempts to do. Especially given that the title of the article ends with a ? mark. Even if it is true, if you don't hack your machine, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Why would you be hacking your machine in the first place if it wasn't for the purpose of piracy? Hmm?
Moreover, I've owned both VHS and DVD players, and haven't HAD TO hack them once yet. So,...what's the problem?
Keyword, "guess." And that is exactly what this article attempts to do. Especially given that the title of the article ends with a ? mark. Even if it is true, if you don't hack your machine, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Why would you be hacking your machine in the first place if it wasn't for the purpose of piracy? Hmm?
Moreover, I've owned both VHS and DVD players, and haven't HAD TO hack them once yet. So,...what's the problem?
OF course its a "guess", this whole thread is pretty much a "guess"
from that engadget article:
Are they talking about PVP-OPM techniques and rejected HDMI keys, or something else far more sinister? Because apparently ?A hacked player is any player that is doing something it?s not supposed to do,? which open to a pretty fair amount of interpretation?most of which egregious.
I'd put my money on Blu-ray any day. What little news coming out of the HD-DVD camp has been all bad recently, what with the Paramount and Universal delays. Meanwhile, Blu-ray keeps coming up with announcements of yet another company incorporating it into their product. Most recently, it was both Nero and Roxio (although Toast doesn't support Blu-ray yet). Add in video card vendors ATI and Nvidia (which sews up 99.9% of the graphics card market) and the major computer makers and Blu-ray is pretty much a done deal. I don't care if HD-DVD does get here first. The consumer video market alone isn't enough to let a format win. It has to be useful in the PC market, and nobody there seems to be interested in HD-DVD. In this case, HD-DVD seems to be playing the Betamax role with its more limited industry support.
Keyword, "guess." And that is exactly what this article attempts to do. Especially given that the title of the article ends with a ? mark. Even if it is true, if you don't hack your machine, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Why would you be hacking your machine in the first place if it wasn't for the purpose of piracy? Hmm?
Moreover, I've owned both VHS and DVD players, and haven't HAD TO hack them once yet. So,...what's the problem?
There are plenty of reasons why someone would want to hack them. You might want to remove the region codes so you can watch foreign films that you have legally purchased. Maybe you have an older HDTV that does not support HDMI and want to see watch videos in HD that you legally own? Or you might just want to hack the player so that SONY cannot deactivate it at whim.
All of the damn copy protections that are being forced onto us will have little effect on piracy. What they really do is restrict our fair use rights, and the government should not allow the companies to implement them.
There are plenty of reasons why someone would want to hack them. You might want to remove the region codes so you can watch foreign films that you have legally purchased. Maybe you have an older HDTV that does not support HDMI and want to see watch videos in HD that you legally own? Or you might just want to hack the player so that SONY cannot deactivate it at whim.
Purchasing foreign films legally doesn't mean you can legally play them on your DVD player. Region codes exist for a few reasons read up about it instead of being an ignorant dolt.
Purchasing foreign films legally doesn't mean you can legally play them on your DVD player. Region codes exist for a few reasons read up about it instead of being an ignorant dolt.
What got your panties in a wad?
I know the reasons why region codes exists, and I would love to see the USA pass a law like Australia and New Zealand are considering that would do away with region codes entirely.
Comments
Optical HD drives will be a niche gap-filler product until the masses finally make the switch to HDTV and that could take 5-10 years (or even longer on a global scale) and by then a new technology will have leapfrogged it.
If HD-DVD and Blu-Ray don't resolve their issues soon HD optical drives will only be able attain a tiny niche at best. George Lucas and others would not release their movies on traditional DVD until DVD's reached a particular mass saturation rate which might never be reached by either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. Its those same hit movies that caused the late-adopters to buy into the technology and drive DVD sales through the roof at a record pace by historical standards.
Originally posted by johnsocal
**To the average consumer the term "DVD" = "a Movie on a disc that has a good quality picture, great sound, cool extra features, and sells for $19.95 or below)."
So the term "HD-DVD" is a simple extension which most consumers would easily understand since its just adding a Hi-def picture and a higher price to the mix.
The term "Blu-Ray" based soley on a pure marketing strategy (not a technical one) would be more expensive to advertise. It would cost more to market since they would need to develope an entirely new "Blu-Ray" brand which would cause confusion since it looks like a "DVD"** to most people but it wouldnt be called a DVD.
While techy people like to call the average computer/electronics consumer stupid to make themselves feel superior, but in reality alot of people just do care enough about electronics or computers (they might be into sports, cars, and etc) and will buy whatever has the best name recognition or is the most popular with their friends or family.
It's probably best that the 2 formats *not* be marketed as DVDs since none of them work on the current crop of DVD players.
Imagine the disappointment when someone buys an HD-DVD thinking it might play on his/her 2002 DVD set-top.
Putting any mention of 'DVD' in the name makes it confusing to most people.
Originally posted by dfiler
Good point. A different sized case would solve that... but people wouldn't like needing different storage furniture for their collections. I'll be interested in seeing how that part of the transition plays out.
They should use an integral disk caddy, like UMD does. This would solve the problem, and make the media more durable to boot.
On the other hand, how many people had problems trying to play DVDs in CD players? The public is used to differing formats. Heck, in the beginning of the DVD era, not all players would play all DVD disks.
Originally posted by e1618978
They should use an integral disk caddy, like UMD does. This would solve the problem, and make the media more durable to boot.
On the other hand, how many people had problems trying to play DVDs in CD players? The public is used to differing formats. Heck, in the beginning of the DVD era, not all players would play all DVD disks.
I don't think the form factor of the media is the problem. But I do think the form factor of the packaging and the name of the media would be a problem.
If the name and the box is different, there shouldn't be a lot of confusion.
That's why I think Blu-Ray has an advantage of not suckering people into thinking the Blu-Ray media works in older DVD players...while HD-DVD is out to sucker them into thinking that.
The real question however is 'when the fuck are games coming out on DVDs by default?' Games like Doom 3 and Halflife 2 which couldn't run on a computer that didn't ship with a DVD player still ship on CDs. Surely the cost of pressing 4 CDs is more than pressing a single DVD (or is it not?)
Attempts of Super-CD's and etc have had little commercial success even though they produce better sound. This might lead one to believe that its hard to get the masses to accept another product when it looks (physical appearance not funtionality) like the one they got.
I believe that the next-gen HD format should really look different like the one person said about having UMD-like case or IMO it should goto an ipod or an ipod-like device all together.
HD will at least be visibly better on HDTVs but they are going to be rare for another 12 months at least. I think not supporting existing hires LCD TVs is a mistake as people won't like rebuying so soon.
Obviously thats wishful thinking on my part, and i wouldnt be surprised if Studios try to milk the transition for all its worth by having ppl buy the movies on DVDs and then re purchace the movies on HD-DVDs/Blu Rays. Bastards.
Cheers
Originally posted by johnsocal
I believe that the next-gen HD format should really look different like the one person said about having UMD-like case or IMO it should goto an ipod or an ipod-like device all together.
Are you guggesting that the movies come on Harddrives preloaded ? that would mean having a single movie on a single 30/60GB iPod in HD resolution. I wonder if HD speeds and transfer rates support HD...like does FW800 support HD content ?
Not a good idea imo...especially when you factor in the cost of the physical media.
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a
I think it would be cool if say....a studio makes the transition to HD in one swoop. Imagine a HD-DVD with HD content on one side.....flip it over and its a regular DVD. That way ull only ever had one version of the movie on store shelves, and consumers pick it up.....when they get home...they pop it into their DVD player and if and when they get HD capable hardwae, they can exploit it usng the same disc.
Obviously thats wishful thinking on my part, and i wouldnt be surprised if Studios try to milk the transition for all its worth by having ppl buy the movies on DVDs and then re purchace the movies on HD-DVDs/Blu Rays. Bastards.
Cheers
Not as wishful as you think. That idea WAS discussed by the HD-DVD camp. I don't know if they're going to do it or not, though.
The way they described it, the hybrid disc is dual-layered and double-sided (like today's DVDs). However, the drive can read one of the layers on the other side. So you'd in effect have 3 HD-DVD layers on one side, and one standard DVD layer on the other.
One layer wouldn't be enough for movies longer than 2 hours, though. But it's adequate for the large majority of them.
Keyword, "guess." And that is exactly what this article attempts to do. Especially given that the title of the article ends with a ? mark. Even if it is true, if you don't hack your machine, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Why would you be hacking your machine in the first place if it wasn't for the purpose of piracy? Hmm?
Moreover, I've owned both VHS and DVD players, and haven't HAD TO hack them once yet. So,...what's the problem?
Originally posted by marzetta7
I guess the first crop of Blu-Ray players will automatically shutdown if anyone tries to hack them- http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000737057152/
Keyword, "guess." And that is exactly what this article attempts to do. Especially given that the title of the article ends with a ? mark. Even if it is true, if you don't hack your machine, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Why would you be hacking your machine in the first place if it wasn't for the purpose of piracy? Hmm?
Moreover, I've owned both VHS and DVD players, and haven't HAD TO hack them once yet. So,...what's the problem?
OF course its a "guess", this whole thread is pretty much a "guess"
from that engadget article:
Are they talking about PVP-OPM techniques and rejected HDMI keys, or something else far more sinister? Because apparently ?A hacked player is any player that is doing something it?s not supposed to do,? which open to a pretty fair amount of interpretation?most of which egregious.
Originally posted by marzetta7
I guess the first crop of Blu-Ray players will automatically shutdown if anyone tries to hack them- http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000737057152/
Keyword, "guess." And that is exactly what this article attempts to do. Especially given that the title of the article ends with a ? mark. Even if it is true, if you don't hack your machine, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Why would you be hacking your machine in the first place if it wasn't for the purpose of piracy? Hmm?
Moreover, I've owned both VHS and DVD players, and haven't HAD TO hack them once yet. So,...what's the problem?
There are plenty of reasons why someone would want to hack them. You might want to remove the region codes so you can watch foreign films that you have legally purchased. Maybe you have an older HDTV that does not support HDMI and want to see watch videos in HD that you legally own? Or you might just want to hack the player so that SONY cannot deactivate it at whim.
All of the damn copy protections that are being forced onto us will have little effect on piracy. What they really do is restrict our fair use rights, and the government should not allow the companies to implement them.
Originally posted by Res
There are plenty of reasons why someone would want to hack them. You might want to remove the region codes so you can watch foreign films that you have legally purchased. Maybe you have an older HDTV that does not support HDMI and want to see watch videos in HD that you legally own? Or you might just want to hack the player so that SONY cannot deactivate it at whim.
Purchasing foreign films legally doesn't mean you can legally play them on your DVD player. Region codes exist for a few reasons read up about it instead of being an ignorant dolt.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Purchasing foreign films legally doesn't mean you can legally play them on your DVD player. Region codes exist for a few reasons read up about it instead of being an ignorant dolt.
What got your panties in a wad?
I know the reasons why region codes exists, and I would love to see the USA pass a law like Australia and New Zealand are considering that would do away with region codes entirely.