...There is really only one bad thing about the Blu-Ray format. I'll admit it sends shivers up my spine. No, not the lack of iHD. LINK
What is it that irks you? The choice of a lousy movie? Or the fact that Sony is doing it? It's already established that Blu-Ray is loaded with more DRM than anything that's come before, and you'll be lucky if you get to watch the movie at all; but HD-DVD isn't much better.
The fact is, consumers are losing the DRM battle on all fronts. Sony's rootkit embarrassment is just that, an embarrassment. Hackers have gone to jail for less, but Sony will just find another way to do what they want.
Where's Murchison? He explains this stuff so well.
Cubist you're right about the DRM. Sony's taking a beating over the rootkit issue. Texas is now suing and I expect more states and civilians to join the fray.
Honestly since iTunes hit I've downloaded less than 15 tracks from P2P. I believe in the future of online downloads for music and movies. Sony is finally coming around. They've added Mandatory Managed Copy and a Picture in Picture feature that was in iHD. They've added BD-9 HD on red laser discs.
I can honestly say now that if/when HD DVD gives up the ghost I'm happy with what we have. I don't hate Sony but detest their paranoia which causes them to do stupid things to good formats.
DRM has to have its limits. Someone will always find a way to crack your protection. You just don't want to make it easy for a majority of the population.
The next Blu-ray disc is House of Flying Daggers - it looks great in HD.
Love this movie! Are you guessing here or has there been some sort of announcement. HoFD availability on launch would give me extra incentive to hop aboard.
A very close friend of mine works at the Digital Authoring Center.
Nice. I must admit. The BDA has surprised me. They've ok'd Mandatory Managed Copy, Howard Stringer verified the PS3 would be around $399 and contain Blu Ray. I'm liking its prospects more and I'd be remiss to ignore the pressure that HD DVD has put on Blu Ray and how that has caused improvements on both sides. If Blu Ray wins I'm pleased with what consumers will have.
I think I've written this before, but it bears repeating. Don't care who wins, so long as it's quick and clean. No more than one year. M$ NOT throwing HD-DVD on the Xbox, and electing to go a year earlier than the competition, IMHO, will play a role in the demise of HD-DVD.
There's no major vehicle now. The defacto support of the DVD forum means very little, all those companies will quickly press content onto whatever disc is doing well in whatever market. Many are also supporting blueray. It seems that from the beginning, many DVD forum members were more concerned about keeping Sony honest, than beating them.
A 399 Blueray PS3 in the spring or summer will give blueray a major push.
But there's one more hidden gem.
Camcorders.
Blue Ray's 8cm spec looks very nice. 7.8 and 15GB discs are at the ready for the launch of consumer HD optical camcorders. And with the built-in MPEG2/4 and H.264 support they will probably be able to best HDV's 1440x1080i with a true (albeit still compressed) 1920x1080p.
A one-stop record to play to edit solution is going to really get people's attention.
For Apple, a really neat trick would be to be first out of the gate with such support. iMovieHD with a Blueray equipped iMac could be a HUGE seller. They've talked about doing some great things with Sony, and when that generation of camcorder hits it may be Apple's chance to do just that...
I think I've written this before, but it bears repeating. Don't care who wins, so long as it's quick and clean. No more than one year. M$ NOT throwing HD-DVD on the Xbox, and electing to go a year earlier than the competition, IMHO, will play a role in the demise of HD-DVD.
There's no major vehicle now. The defacto support of the DVD forum means very little, all those companies will quickly press content onto whatever disc is doing well in whatever market. Many are also supporting blueray. It seems that from the beginning, many DVD forum members were more concerned about keeping Sony honest, than beating them.
A 399 Blueray PS3 in the spring or summer will give blueray a major push.
But there's one more hidden gem.
Camcorders.
Blue Ray's 8cm spec looks very nice. 7.8 and 15GB discs are at the ready for the launch of consumer HD optical camcorders. And with the built-in MPEG2/4 and H.264 support they will probably be able to best HDV's 1440x1080i with a true (albeit still compressed) 1920x1080p.
A one-stop record to play to edit solution is going to really get people's attention.
For Apple, a really neat trick would be to be first out of the gate with such support. iMovieHD with a Blueray equipped iMac could be a HUGE seller. They've talked about doing some great things with Sony, and when that generation of camcorder hits it may be Apple's chance to do just that...
Well then, shall we call 2006 the true year of HD?
Blue Ray's 8cm spec looks very nice. 7.8 and 15GB discs are at the ready for the launch of consumer HD optical camcorders. And with the built-in MPEG2/4 and H.264 support they will probably be able to best HDV's 1440x1080i with a true (albeit still compressed) 1920x1080p.
Real-time 1080p H.264 compression in a consumer product? Maybe in 4 years, but not in 2006.
I should have been more explicit. A good thing about the next gen formats is that the spec calls for them to accomodate MPEG2, MPEG4 and H.264. Even some studios are talking about initial releases in MPEG2. The overall data rate remains the same for any codec used, but whatever is used will play back in your blueray/HDDVD player. Naturally, once the more efficient codecs are used (at the same overall datarate/file size) quality will also improve.
Blueray camcorders will debut in '06, and they will use MPEG2. This is already being done in HDV (miniDV tape medium) to write 1440x1080i (which is stretched to 1920x1080 output) and 1280x720p. This is done at a data rate of 19-25Mbps. With 33Mbps to pay with, blueray actually has not quite as much compression to do on the fly, and so should provide a better recording even with MPEG2 -- which is what will be used initially -- you will have quality settings for 30-60min of recording per disc.
When dedicated chips allow, new cameras will then offer your choice of MPEG2,4,H.264, and since it's all a part of the spec, it will all just play in your set-top player, straight out of the camera.
HD blueray camcorders in '06 will only record an MPEG2 file.
Real-time 1080p H.264 compression in a consumer product? Maybe in 4 years, but not in 2006.
It's here now and probably will be in consumer machines by the time Conroe/Merom arrive. ATI's new generation of graphics cards have hardware H.264 acceleration and transcoding that is real time on the X1800XT on a dual core Xeon system.
I personally won't be buying any optical based camcorder. Consumers may think it's cool though. The real deal for prosumers is going to be hard drive based recordings. In fact JVC has a HD Everio camera popping up on some sites with a hd. Today they have hard drive SD based cameras.
The cost per gig of optical and the speed just isn't good enough unless your talking XDCAM and that's really expensive. I look for Sony to catch another case of NIH syndrom and flog blu ray recorders despite common sense and momentum swinging to hard drive based systems.
Looking forward to CES to see what titles will launch with Blu Ray and HD DVD. Should be a good year for HD.
HDD doesn't always make sense for consumers. I do think it more likely that with consumers tape takes a back seat to hard drive and optical based recorders. But I don't see HDD based systems as especially practical for anyone outside the digital film business.
People capturing 2K and 4K content that would eat through tape too quickly (like a Viper filmstream system) use HDD because there isn't any tape that can deal with the output of those cameras. However, the nature of those projects differs even from other professional projects where tape (or some form of medium) makes an important archive. ENG and documentary, for instance, rely heavily on having archival material made on site.
Sony's XDCAM (uses what is essentially a 12cm recordable blue ray disc) and has been getting a good reception from the pros. The Data rates are in the ball park with 36Mbps, and 72Mbps verisions coming. DVCPRO offers 25, 50, and 100. ENG people are really interested. Simplicity and reliability seem to be a strong point of the system...
Flipping back to consumers. A great many of them will never edit their video. A disc that they just pop into their set-top player is much more convenient. Now that the storage and data-rates are there for HD, I don't see how it's not a good solution.
No it doesn't. Some people like to wilfully choose a less durable format. They want to buy media for the camera which will be hundreds over the lifetime of use whilst the smart consumer with the 80gb drive in the Everio will be on his orginal drive 5yrs later at no additional cost.
Quote:
Flipping back to consumers. A great many of them will never edit their video. A disc that they just pop into their set-top player is much more convenient. Now that the storage and data-rates are there for HD, I don't see how it's not a good solution.
God Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. With a plethora of low cost video options should mean that poor unsuspecting folks NEVER have to watch unedited video of someones child rolling around on the floor drooling. I think optical based drive encourage a lack of editing.
The reason why I don't think it's a good option is because watching shaky camera footaqe with no cuts or spice causes normal people to run screaming in the opposite direction. I've never had a problem hooking my cam to the TV if I wanted direct playback
Here...I'll tell you what it really is.
Sony= world leader in optical technologies. NIH syndrom with HDD or Flash.
Panasonic- P2...Matsushita world leader in flash technologies NIH on Optical and HDD
JVC is the only company bucking the trend right now in prefabbed cams. The Focus Firestore
is all the rage for people looking to rid themselves of tape. They surely aren't looking at Blu Ray as anything as exciting from my perspective.
If Seagate ever ships their momentus 5400.3 160gb drive and future areal density increases I could easily see 100GB and 200GB drives. That's enough space for 24 hrs of HD capture.
Can't wait till January!!! First we'll have CES on January 5th then the MacWorld Expo on the 10th with a keynote by Steve jobs. Hmm, makes me wonder if there will be any Blu-Ray related announcements at MacWorld. Especially since we saw the President of Sony and Jobs on stage a while ago talking up Blu-Ray. 2006 may be the "Year of HD II."
If Seagate ever ships their momentus 5400.3 160gb drive and future areal density increases I could easily see 100GB and 200GB drives. That's enough space for 24 hrs of HD capture.
And what's a consumer to do once they fill up their drive in the camera? Dump it onto their consumer computer which has only a 100-200GB hd? I don't think so. Buy a new camera to film another 24 hours? No. And what happens if your filming Johnny's first steps, and your HD is almost full. Do you tape over his Baptism, or perhaps the first trip home with mom? Consumers want the ability to pop in a new tape if they need to film more.
I know for my situation, I have 5 DV tapes filled up (granted that is only 5 hours of footage, so in the HD sense I could fill up more). But there is no way I would want to store all of that footage on my computer to "free" up space on my camera. But at the same time, I don't want to just lose the footage I have. DV tapes are a great (and cheap!) backup means of my footage.
No it doesn't. Some people like to wilfully choose a less durable format. They want to buy media for the camera which will be hundreds over the lifetime of use whilst the smart consumer with the 80gb drive in the Everio will be on his orginal drive 5yrs later at no additional cost.
Well unless that consumer is trashing all his movies he's buying discs to burn them to so s/he still has costs. Very few people have a fully HD and computer based media system and even if you were there is the cost of additional HDs.
Comments
Originally posted by 1984
...There is really only one bad thing about the Blu-Ray format. I'll admit it sends shivers up my spine. No, not the lack of iHD. LINK
What is it that irks you? The choice of a lousy movie? Or the fact that Sony is doing it? It's already established that Blu-Ray is loaded with more DRM than anything that's come before, and you'll be lucky if you get to watch the movie at all; but HD-DVD isn't much better.
The fact is, consumers are losing the DRM battle on all fronts. Sony's rootkit embarrassment is just that, an embarrassment. Hackers have gone to jail for less, but Sony will just find another way to do what they want.
Where's Murchison? He explains this stuff so well.
Originally posted by cubist
What is it that irks you? The choice of a lousy movie? Or the fact that Sony is doing it?
It was the choice of "Charlies Angles: Full Throttle" as the first Blu-Ray movie. That's all.
Honestly since iTunes hit I've downloaded less than 15 tracks from P2P. I believe in the future of online downloads for music and movies. Sony is finally coming around. They've added Mandatory Managed Copy and a Picture in Picture feature that was in iHD. They've added BD-9 HD on red laser discs.
I can honestly say now that if/when HD DVD gives up the ghost I'm happy with what we have. I don't hate Sony but detest their paranoia which causes them to do stupid things to good formats.
DRM has to have its limits. Someone will always find a way to crack your protection. You just don't want to make it easy for a majority of the population.
Originally posted by 1984
It was the choice of "Charlies Angles: Full Throttle" as the first Blu-Ray movie. That's all.
The next Blu-ray disc is House of Flying Daggers - it looks great in HD.
Originally posted by Cake
The next Blu-ray disc is House of Flying Daggers - it looks great in HD.
Love this movie! Are you guessing here or has there been some sort of announcement. HoFD availability on launch would give me extra incentive to hop aboard.
Originally posted by Cake
A very close friend of mine works at the Digital Authoring Center.
Nice. I must admit. The BDA has surprised me. They've ok'd Mandatory Managed Copy, Howard Stringer verified the PS3 would be around $399 and contain Blu Ray. I'm liking its prospects more and I'd be remiss to ignore the pressure that HD DVD has put on Blu Ray and how that has caused improvements on both sides. If Blu Ray wins I'm pleased with what consumers will have.
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsAr...DIA-BLURAY.xml
Hopefully we'll get some in January.
There's no major vehicle now. The defacto support of the DVD forum means very little, all those companies will quickly press content onto whatever disc is doing well in whatever market. Many are also supporting blueray. It seems that from the beginning, many DVD forum members were more concerned about keeping Sony honest, than beating them.
A 399 Blueray PS3 in the spring or summer will give blueray a major push.
But there's one more hidden gem.
Camcorders.
Blue Ray's 8cm spec looks very nice. 7.8 and 15GB discs are at the ready for the launch of consumer HD optical camcorders. And with the built-in MPEG2/4 and H.264 support they will probably be able to best HDV's 1440x1080i with a true (albeit still compressed) 1920x1080p.
A one-stop record to play to edit solution is going to really get people's attention.
For Apple, a really neat trick would be to be first out of the gate with such support. iMovieHD with a Blueray equipped iMac could be a HUGE seller. They've talked about doing some great things with Sony, and when that generation of camcorder hits it may be Apple's chance to do just that...
Originally posted by Matsu
I think I've written this before, but it bears repeating. Don't care who wins, so long as it's quick and clean. No more than one year. M$ NOT throwing HD-DVD on the Xbox, and electing to go a year earlier than the competition, IMHO, will play a role in the demise of HD-DVD.
There's no major vehicle now. The defacto support of the DVD forum means very little, all those companies will quickly press content onto whatever disc is doing well in whatever market. Many are also supporting blueray. It seems that from the beginning, many DVD forum members were more concerned about keeping Sony honest, than beating them.
A 399 Blueray PS3 in the spring or summer will give blueray a major push.
But there's one more hidden gem.
Camcorders.
Blue Ray's 8cm spec looks very nice. 7.8 and 15GB discs are at the ready for the launch of consumer HD optical camcorders. And with the built-in MPEG2/4 and H.264 support they will probably be able to best HDV's 1440x1080i with a true (albeit still compressed) 1920x1080p.
A one-stop record to play to edit solution is going to really get people's attention.
For Apple, a really neat trick would be to be first out of the gate with such support. iMovieHD with a Blueray equipped iMac could be a HUGE seller. They've talked about doing some great things with Sony, and when that generation of camcorder hits it may be Apple's chance to do just that...
Well then, shall we call 2006 the true year of HD?
Originally posted by Matsu
Camcorders.
Blue Ray's 8cm spec looks very nice. 7.8 and 15GB discs are at the ready for the launch of consumer HD optical camcorders. And with the built-in MPEG2/4 and H.264 support they will probably be able to best HDV's 1440x1080i with a true (albeit still compressed) 1920x1080p.
Real-time 1080p H.264 compression in a consumer product? Maybe in 4 years, but not in 2006.
Blueray camcorders will debut in '06, and they will use MPEG2. This is already being done in HDV (miniDV tape medium) to write 1440x1080i (which is stretched to 1920x1080 output) and 1280x720p. This is done at a data rate of 19-25Mbps. With 33Mbps to pay with, blueray actually has not quite as much compression to do on the fly, and so should provide a better recording even with MPEG2 -- which is what will be used initially -- you will have quality settings for 30-60min of recording per disc.
When dedicated chips allow, new cameras will then offer your choice of MPEG2,4,H.264, and since it's all a part of the spec, it will all just play in your set-top player, straight out of the camera.
HD blueray camcorders in '06 will only record an MPEG2 file.
Originally posted by wmf
Real-time 1080p H.264 compression in a consumer product? Maybe in 4 years, but not in 2006.
It's here now and probably will be in consumer machines by the time Conroe/Merom arrive. ATI's new generation of graphics cards have hardware H.264 acceleration and transcoding that is real time on the X1800XT on a dual core Xeon system.
The cost per gig of optical and the speed just isn't good enough unless your talking XDCAM and that's really expensive. I look for Sony to catch another case of NIH syndrom and flog blu ray recorders despite common sense and momentum swinging to hard drive based systems.
Looking forward to CES to see what titles will launch with Blu Ray and HD DVD. Should be a good year for HD.
People capturing 2K and 4K content that would eat through tape too quickly (like a Viper filmstream system) use HDD because there isn't any tape that can deal with the output of those cameras. However, the nature of those projects differs even from other professional projects where tape (or some form of medium) makes an important archive. ENG and documentary, for instance, rely heavily on having archival material made on site.
Sony's XDCAM (uses what is essentially a 12cm recordable blue ray disc) and has been getting a good reception from the pros. The Data rates are in the ball park with 36Mbps, and 72Mbps verisions coming. DVCPRO offers 25, 50, and 100. ENG people are really interested. Simplicity and reliability seem to be a strong point of the system...
Flipping back to consumers. A great many of them will never edit their video. A disc that they just pop into their set-top player is much more convenient. Now that the storage and data-rates are there for HD, I don't see how it's not a good solution.
HDD doesn't always make sense for consumers
No it doesn't. Some people like to wilfully choose a less durable format. They want to buy media for the camera which will be hundreds over the lifetime of use whilst the smart consumer with the 80gb drive in the Everio will be on his orginal drive 5yrs later at no additional cost.
Flipping back to consumers. A great many of them will never edit their video. A disc that they just pop into their set-top player is much more convenient. Now that the storage and data-rates are there for HD, I don't see how it's not a good solution.
God Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. With a plethora of low cost video options should mean that poor unsuspecting folks NEVER have to watch unedited video of someones child rolling around on the floor drooling. I think optical based drive encourage a lack of editing.
The reason why I don't think it's a good option is because watching shaky camera footaqe with no cuts or spice causes normal people to run screaming in the opposite direction. I've never had a problem hooking my cam to the TV if I wanted direct playback
Here...I'll tell you what it really is.
Sony= world leader in optical technologies. NIH syndrom with HDD or Flash.
Panasonic- P2...Matsushita world leader in flash technologies NIH on Optical and HDD
JVC is the only company bucking the trend right now in prefabbed cams. The Focus Firestore
http://www.focusinfo.com/products/firestore/fs-4.htm
is all the rage for people looking to rid themselves of tape. They surely aren't looking at Blu Ray as anything as exciting from my perspective.
If Seagate ever ships their momentus 5400.3 160gb drive and future areal density increases I could easily see 100GB and 200GB drives. That's enough space for 24 hrs of HD capture.
http://www.homemediaretailing.com/ne...rticle_id=8312
Can't wait till January!!! First we'll have CES on January 5th then the MacWorld Expo on the 10th with a keynote by Steve jobs. Hmm, makes me wonder if there will be any Blu-Ray related announcements at MacWorld. Especially since we saw the President of Sony and Jobs on stage a while ago talking up Blu-Ray. 2006 may be the "Year of HD II."
Originally posted by hmurchison
If Seagate ever ships their momentus 5400.3 160gb drive and future areal density increases I could easily see 100GB and 200GB drives. That's enough space for 24 hrs of HD capture.
And what's a consumer to do once they fill up their drive in the camera? Dump it onto their consumer computer which has only a 100-200GB hd? I don't think so. Buy a new camera to film another 24 hours? No. And what happens if your filming Johnny's first steps, and your HD is almost full. Do you tape over his Baptism, or perhaps the first trip home with mom? Consumers want the ability to pop in a new tape if they need to film more.
I know for my situation, I have 5 DV tapes filled up (granted that is only 5 hours of footage, so in the HD sense I could fill up more). But there is no way I would want to store all of that footage on my computer to "free" up space on my camera. But at the same time, I don't want to just lose the footage I have. DV tapes are a great (and cheap!) backup means of my footage.
Originally posted by hmurchison
No it doesn't. Some people like to wilfully choose a less durable format. They want to buy media for the camera which will be hundreds over the lifetime of use whilst the smart consumer with the 80gb drive in the Everio will be on his orginal drive 5yrs later at no additional cost.
Well unless that consumer is trashing all his movies he's buying discs to burn them to so s/he still has costs. Very few people have a fully HD and computer based media system and even if you were there is the cost of additional HDs.