I'm wondering if the 10.4.3 update will at the same time as the PowerMac update. Looking at the info from AI and TS it looks like it's not that far away.
I think apple showed it's hand right off the bat by throwing together the Intel Mac for developers.
I think that given the apparent speed and ease of retrofitting the PM with an Intel MB tells us right away which machine gets the first Intel chips.
<snip>........
Maybe, but I believe that Adobe has said that its' Creative Suite may not be ported until late 2006. I don't know how Apple views this, but I would guess that the Powermacs may be the last to be transitioned. That said, I very well could be totally wrong, I never, ever, even considered that Apple would move from PPC to IA32.
Well I just checked and the dual 2.7 GHz Powermac is down to 2-4 days, and Paris is with in 4 business days, it has been dropping over the last few weeks as well so it's looking good for an update at Paris. I'm guessing that the keynote was canceled because they wanted to show off something in the Powerbooks and PowerMacs. The Powerbooks probably got hit by a delay of some sort and the PowerMacs are not exactly a consumer item so they just downgraded to the Q & A session to announce them. Also I've seen a few posts on various message boards that Apple Reps recommended them to hold off until Paris time, along with Piper and Jaffery chiming it with no stock on the high end models. The again this could be just recovery from a delay in parts or something. It is looking good though.
I'm sure they will introduce an update to the current G5, AND NOW!! the first ever PM to hit the 3.0 barrier! hehe....i really hope not......I can see why a Q&A session is what they will be doing. Why would you hype up a PPC product even if it is really great...when you need the consumers to "think intel".
Seriously, if they do come out with something new that is worth it I'll drop the cash on one too! If not and it is something like the last rounds, I'll get the low or mid range model and wait for a rev B macintel. The 2.0/2.3's should hopefully get cheaper... I can't keep waiting....what ever is next had best be worth the money for a last round PPC machine.
Apple doesn't need customers to "think Intel", they need customers to "think Apple". The processor inside should not matter to the buyer, only developers should have to care. Apple needs to flog the machines it is currently selling.
Apple needs to flog the machines it is currently selling.
With IBM having announced the 970MP processors, but without a precise date (unless I missed something), would you risk a prediction on when the new machines are coming? And wich CPU? This autumn, MWSF 2006, one year from last update?
The processor inside should not matter to the buyer, only developers should have to care.
I know that, you know that.... Joe T. Public doesn't. True the processor should not matter to the buyer..... but it does! That is why the whole MHZ thing was a battle.... remember? Computer buyers that have done any research will be "thinking Intel" before a purchase of Apple. I can just hear sales people (outside of Apple stores: ie BestBuy, CompUSA, Frys, etc....) telling consumers that to buy an apple is a waste until intel. You buy it and it is already extinct, do you think that would run most off?
I've seen the transitions of apple, before they were KEWL..... I know that PPC will be supported for awhile. Now, to my parents an miniMac or a low end iMac would be a big computer purchase. They would want to know it last awhile.....I agree on the flogging of the current lineup.
side note: I wonder if buyers of current lowend peecee's know what vista is going to take to run? Will there computers be left behind?
Apple doesn't need customers to "think Intel", they need customers to "think Apple". The processor inside should not matter to the buyer ...
I disagree. We should not HAVE to care what processor is inside. However, for the first gen macintels, code which has not been ported will have to run via rosetta. Altivec-aware apps will then take a performance hit, perhaps a serious one, from the combination of emulation and from the loss of altivec.
It will all shake out, and Apple is definitely going in the right direction with Intel (or, AMD if necessary), but for the short term - give me a late-gen PPC. Most of my apps are from Apple or Microsoft (ok, and Deneba and Roxio), and they will work great for years on PPC, and on Intel when I am ready to switch - a few years down the line.
Well ... we should not HAVE to care what processor is inside. However, for the first gen macintels, code which has not been ported will have to run via rosetta. Altivec-aware apps will then take a performance hit, perhaps a serious one, from the combination of emulation and from the loss of altivec.
It will all shake out, and Apple is definitely going in the right direction with Intel (or, AMD if necessary), but for the short term - give me a late-gen PPC. Most of my apps are from Apple or Microsoft (ok, and Deneba and Roxio), and they will work great for years on PPC, and on Intel when I am ready to switch - a few years down the line.
Of course, even before I am ready to switch to Intel, newer-gen apps may no longer be written for "legacy" PPCs, and I'll have to stick with aging (non-Apple) applications or buy again. Apple gets 2 purchases out of me this way.
With the Powermacs Apple wants both the big apps, and the smaller, more specialized apps to be ready. Since Powermac users use a more diverse array of software, it makes sense to transition them last...
Now if the Developer PowerMacs have to be turned in mid-2006, what is Apple expecting developers to develop on if, as you suggest, Apple waits to release an Intel PowerMac? If there isn't an Intel PowerMac available when developers are scheduled to turn in their development machines, what will they use? If as others suggest that Apple starts with the consumer line, I can't see developers being too keen about re-coding their software on Intel iMacs.
I think the Intel PowerMac will be released sometime next year, so... I'd be willing to bet that any updates Apple makes to its PMs are minimal from here on.
Now if the Developer PowerMacs have to be turned in mid-2006, what is Apple expecting developers to develop on if, as you suggest, Apple waits to release an Intel PowerMac? If there isn't an Intel PowerMac available when developers are scheduled to turn in their development machines, what will they use? If as others suggest that Apple starts with the consumer line, I can't see developers being too keen about re-coding their software on Intel iMacs.
I think the Intel PowerMac will be released sometime next year, so... I'd be willing to bet that any updates Apple makes to its PMs are minimal from here on.
The current developer model is in no way a PowerMac, the only thing it has in common with a PowerMac is the case which is the only one Apple had with out building a custom case. I would rate the design of it more along the lines of an eMac or iMac, it doesn't even have a dedicated graphics card. Anything is fair game for Apple anyway.
So is the census still that we will receive a last G5 update before the Intel roll out? Possibly announced, what tuesday?
I'm ready to upgrade, and I'm also weary of a first gen IntelMac and about having to buy all new software. Or will current software be simply updated? Will you have to go out an buy new versions of software, will PC versions now work? VPC is now dead? Will all devices work flawlessly?
So, I think I'll get the next update and wait until me next cycle in 3+ years before jumping on the intelmac wagon.
i'm in the same boat wondering about software... planning on a PM, CS2, AE and upgrades to others. I'm running old versions of everything as it is now, and I hate to find out I have to repurchase it all again at my next computer which will be a intel based machine...2 years or so....... any ideas of what kind of path they will take? Adobe worries me, but i'm sure the user base is so big they will just do upgrades......right?
I really don't think there will be a significant G5 update before the intel roll out. There would have to be a motherboard redesign for me to call it a significant update which would include things like PCI-E, and Dual Core Processors. If there is anything there would be a speed bump, but I don't see why they would even bother with that.
I don't think Apple would waste the resources to do a new PPC motherboard when they have a lot of things to try to accomplish with the intel designs. Like how to use a PC x86 Graphics card with OS X, and get it to be plug, and play.
Is there going to be a hardware incompatibility with regular PC graphics cards. Apple should have all hands trying to figure out the best solution to make that work for us out of the box. There are a multitude of ways to make that happen, and most R&D should go to testing all the possible solutions.
Talk about an increase in Mac sales.
There is also the regular Mac OpenGL that needs a good looking at. I have been told It's integrated deep within the OS for Mac OS X interface benefits, and this affects (hinders) it's performance VS. PC OpenGL for typical graphics use for games, and graphics applications, and what not. Is it possible to not change it, and to off load, or fork off another - more standard - implimentation of OpenGL to be used outside of the OS, or - in reverse - use a standard OGL, and have a secondary version of it just for the OS itself. Who knows. I'm not that familiar with it, but Apple knows they have a huge chance to grab a major piece of the Computer market on the basis of compability, and performance with other computer products when they have intel proucts ready, and I hope they have come to play, and not to have their claim to fame be: Apple - we toy around with iPods.
I really don't think there will be a significant G5 update before the intel roll out. There would have to be a motherboard redesign for me to call it a significant update which would include things like PCI-E, and Dual Core Processors. I don't think Apple would waste the resources to do a new PPC motherboard when they have a lot of things to try to accomplish with the intel designs.
Read some of the old rumors.... back to march on the 970MP. It has been in the works since before the INTEL announcement. Also, before that if you search rumors there are bits and pieces of the INTEL build. I'm sure that if they kept up with each build, they were also working on the tech behind it.
The ipods are really just marketing in my view.... public awareness.......
Seems weird that Apple doesn't think that Dualcore Powermacs are worth announcing at a keynote. Maybe they are still some way off? And yes, there will be at least one more revision of PPC powermacs, suitable Intel processors are not going to be ready for at least another year.
Seems weird that Apple doesn't think that Dualcore Powermacs are worth announcing at a keynote. Maybe they are still some way off? And yes, there will be at least one more revision of PPC powermacs, suitable Intel processors are not going to be ready for at least another year.
You also have to remember the audience that the keynote is being presented to, they mostly care about the iMacs and other consumer computers. The PowerMac is marketed toward the prosumer and professional buyers. Also after the intro of the Nano I doubt there is much else to present that would be of interest.
Looks like IBM will be talking about Cell, Xenon and 970mp during the Fall Microprocessor Forum in October. We will hopefully learn how the PPE in the Cell and Xenon perform compared to the 970.
Anyways, I think Q1 06 is a better date 970mp Power Mac G5 release which gives them time to clear inventory. If they update in October, there's going to be some good discounts on the current inventory. Might be possible, but MWSF06 should be the earliest.
The Developer Transition kits are due back to Apple end of 2006, not mid 2006. And its not like Apple can't whip out another transition kit easily either.
Thinksecret says Powerbooks may be delayed to MWSF06. Hehe, is it Freescale being late with the 7448 or is Apple waiting for Yonah?
Comments
Originally posted by iSeeItNow
Here's my .02:
I think apple showed it's hand right off the bat by throwing together the Intel Mac for developers.
I think that given the apparent speed and ease of retrofitting the PM with an Intel MB tells us right away which machine gets the first Intel chips.
<snip>........
Maybe, but I believe that Adobe has said that its' Creative Suite may not be ported until late 2006. I don't know how Apple views this, but I would guess that the Powermacs may be the last to be transitioned. That said, I very well could be totally wrong, I never, ever, even considered that Apple would move from PPC to IA32.
Originally posted by jherrling
Also I've seen a few posts on various message boards that Apple Reps recommended them to hold off until Paris time,
Great news if so. I've got money I'm ready to give to Apple, if they'll bring forth a PM upgrade.
Seriously, if they do come out with something new that is worth it I'll drop the cash on one too! If not and it is something like the last rounds, I'll get the low or mid range model and wait for a rev B macintel. The 2.0/2.3's should hopefully get cheaper... I can't keep waiting....what ever is next had best be worth the money for a last round PPC machine.
Originally posted by Programmer
Apple needs to flog the machines it is currently selling.
With IBM having announced the 970MP processors, but without a precise date (unless I missed something), would you risk a prediction on when the new machines are coming? And wich CPU? This autumn, MWSF 2006, one year from last update?
Originally posted by Programmer
The processor inside should not matter to the buyer, only developers should have to care.
I know that, you know that.... Joe T. Public doesn't. True the processor should not matter to the buyer..... but it does! That is why the whole MHZ thing was a battle.... remember? Computer buyers that have done any research will be "thinking Intel" before a purchase of Apple. I can just hear sales people (outside of Apple stores: ie BestBuy, CompUSA, Frys, etc....) telling consumers that to buy an apple is a waste until intel. You buy it and it is already extinct, do you think that would run most off?
I've seen the transitions of apple, before they were KEWL..... I know that PPC will be supported for awhile. Now, to my parents an miniMac or a low end iMac would be a big computer purchase. They would want to know it last awhile.....I agree on the flogging of the current lineup.
side note: I wonder if buyers of current lowend peecee's know what vista is going to take to run? Will there computers be left behind?
Originally posted by Programmer
Apple doesn't need customers to "think Intel", they need customers to "think Apple". The processor inside should not matter to the buyer ...
I disagree. We should not HAVE to care what processor is inside. However, for the first gen macintels, code which has not been ported will have to run via rosetta. Altivec-aware apps will then take a performance hit, perhaps a serious one, from the combination of emulation and from the loss of altivec.
It will all shake out, and Apple is definitely going in the right direction with Intel (or, AMD if necessary), but for the short term - give me a late-gen PPC. Most of my apps are from Apple or Microsoft (ok, and Deneba and Roxio), and they will work great for years on PPC, and on Intel when I am ready to switch - a few years down the line.
Hoping for next week,
Brian
Originally posted by bjewett
Well ... we should not HAVE to care what processor is inside. However, for the first gen macintels, code which has not been ported will have to run via rosetta. Altivec-aware apps will then take a performance hit, perhaps a serious one, from the combination of emulation and from the loss of altivec.
It will all shake out, and Apple is definitely going in the right direction with Intel (or, AMD if necessary), but for the short term - give me a late-gen PPC. Most of my apps are from Apple or Microsoft (ok, and Deneba and Roxio), and they will work great for years on PPC, and on Intel when I am ready to switch - a few years down the line.
Of course, even before I am ready to switch to Intel, newer-gen apps may no longer be written for "legacy" PPCs, and I'll have to stick with aging (non-Apple) applications or buy again. Apple gets 2 purchases out of me this way.
Hoping for next week,
Brian
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
With the Powermacs Apple wants both the big apps, and the smaller, more specialized apps to be ready. Since Powermac users use a more diverse array of software, it makes sense to transition them last...
Now if the Developer PowerMacs have to be turned in mid-2006, what is Apple expecting developers to develop on if, as you suggest, Apple waits to release an Intel PowerMac? If there isn't an Intel PowerMac available when developers are scheduled to turn in their development machines, what will they use? If as others suggest that Apple starts with the consumer line, I can't see developers being too keen about re-coding their software on Intel iMacs.
I think the Intel PowerMac will be released sometime next year, so... I'd be willing to bet that any updates Apple makes to its PMs are minimal from here on.
Originally posted by ka2357
Now if the Developer PowerMacs have to be turned in mid-2006, what is Apple expecting developers to develop on if, as you suggest, Apple waits to release an Intel PowerMac? If there isn't an Intel PowerMac available when developers are scheduled to turn in their development machines, what will they use? If as others suggest that Apple starts with the consumer line, I can't see developers being too keen about re-coding their software on Intel iMacs.
I think the Intel PowerMac will be released sometime next year, so... I'd be willing to bet that any updates Apple makes to its PMs are minimal from here on.
The current developer model is in no way a PowerMac, the only thing it has in common with a PowerMac is the case which is the only one Apple had with out building a custom case. I would rate the design of it more along the lines of an eMac or iMac, it doesn't even have a dedicated graphics card. Anything is fair game for Apple anyway.
I'm ready to upgrade, and I'm also weary of a first gen IntelMac and about having to buy all new software. Or will current software be simply updated? Will you have to go out an buy new versions of software, will PC versions now work? VPC is now dead? Will all devices work flawlessly?
So, I think I'll get the next update and wait until me next cycle in 3+ years before jumping on the intelmac wagon.
I don't think Apple would waste the resources to do a new PPC motherboard when they have a lot of things to try to accomplish with the intel designs. Like how to use a PC x86 Graphics card with OS X, and get it to be plug, and play.
Is there going to be a hardware incompatibility with regular PC graphics cards. Apple should have all hands trying to figure out the best solution to make that work for us out of the box. There are a multitude of ways to make that happen, and most R&D should go to testing all the possible solutions.
Talk about an increase in Mac sales.
There is also the regular Mac OpenGL that needs a good looking at. I have been told It's integrated deep within the OS for Mac OS X interface benefits, and this affects (hinders) it's performance VS. PC OpenGL for typical graphics use for games, and graphics applications, and what not. Is it possible to not change it, and to off load, or fork off another - more standard - implimentation of OpenGL to be used outside of the OS, or - in reverse - use a standard OGL, and have a secondary version of it just for the OS itself. Who knows. I'm not that familiar with it, but Apple knows they have a huge chance to grab a major piece of the Computer market on the basis of compability, and performance with other computer products when they have intel proucts ready, and I hope they have come to play, and not to have their claim to fame be: Apple - we toy around with iPods.
Originally posted by onlooker
I really don't think there will be a significant G5 update before the intel roll out. There would have to be a motherboard redesign for me to call it a significant update which would include things like PCI-E, and Dual Core Processors. I don't think Apple would waste the resources to do a new PPC motherboard when they have a lot of things to try to accomplish with the intel designs.
Read some of the old rumors.... back to march on the 970MP. It has been in the works since before the INTEL announcement. Also, before that if you search rumors there are bits and pieces of the INTEL build. I'm sure that if they kept up with each build, they were also working on the tech behind it.
The ipods are really just marketing in my view.... public awareness.......
Originally posted by Thereubster
Seems weird that Apple doesn't think that Dualcore Powermacs are worth announcing at a keynote. Maybe they are still some way off? And yes, there will be at least one more revision of PPC powermacs, suitable Intel processors are not going to be ready for at least another year.
You also have to remember the audience that the keynote is being presented to, they mostly care about the iMacs and other consumer computers. The PowerMac is marketed toward the prosumer and professional buyers. Also after the intro of the Nano I doubt there is much else to present that would be of interest.
Anyways, I think Q1 06 is a better date 970mp Power Mac G5 release which gives them time to clear inventory. If they update in October, there's going to be some good discounts on the current inventory. Might be possible, but MWSF06 should be the earliest.
The Developer Transition kits are due back to Apple end of 2006, not mid 2006. And its not like Apple can't whip out another transition kit easily either.
Thinksecret says Powerbooks may be delayed to MWSF06. Hehe, is it Freescale being late with the 7448 or is Apple waiting for Yonah?