Hmm. If PowerMacs and Powerbooks are updated in Paris, I wouldn't expect any new intels intill WWDC, because, usualy the "Power" computers, as they are the pro selection, make the transition first. If they stopped calling it the G5, what kind of transition would be that for instance if the iBook got the i6 (random name) before the Powerbook did.
Actually, I don't think it's unfeasible that Pro models will be last.
Apple could quite easily transition the iBook and Mini first as they aren't used by Pros (in general) so once there's the OS, iLife and iWork running native Intel, a low power single core intel iBook would be spot on, and still slower than a 7448 PowerBook, but faster than the old iBook at most things.
iMac next which is good enough for most Pros so can't be slower than today. It'd also benefit from a lower power CPU such as the dual Yonah at 2Ghz+ which would make up for losing the single G5.
Next would be the Powerbook and that would get the dual core Yonah - 2Ghz+ in the 15/17 and maybe 1.8 dual in the 12" if Apple aren't going to use the same iBook in aluminium ploy.
Then the Xserve - plenty of time to transition there but it's also the easiest since they rarely run apps that can't be recompiled easily.
Then the PowerMac. That's a long way off as a dual-core dual G5 would toast anything from Intel currently and for some time unless the IDF shows something new. And it's here also where Apple needs developers to transition all their applications. I don't see that happening until Adobe CS 3 ships, Quark does an Intel version and all of Apples ProSuite is native Intel.
If you can wait. Wait for a MacTel June 2006. If a consumer Pentium M (G5-ish performance...) in an iBook/iMac/Mac Mini is your thing.
Want a PowerMac? Get a dual core one. Because 2007 is going to be a long wait. It will still run your PowerPC apps just fine. And any future Intel cpu will probably run your PPC apps in emulation just fine or faster than they do now.
You can't lose. Apple have thought this one through. X has been on Intel chips for five years.
it's not a Ferrari it's a computer: obsolete in 7 years.
7 years? That's very optimistic.
I hope Apple does release dual-duals. There's some speculation that they won't, though, because Intel won't be able to release processors that will work dual-dual until well past 2007...
I hope Apple does release dual-duals. There's some speculation that they won't, though, because Intel won't be able to release processors that will work dual-dual until well past 2007...
Not according to their IDF today. They were showing a system running dual-duals running Windows2003 already which are due 2nd half of '06.
Well I posted this in another thread but... I see G5 powerbooks as an actual possiblity now that Merom offers a 64bit Intel laptop chip upgrade path. Not sure about seeing them in Paris though.... I think Apple may consider having 3 laptop lines - Pro, Mainstream (thin and light) and budget.
Pro = 64 bit G5 --> Dual core 64 bit Merom
Mainstream = G4 7448 ---> Dual core Yonah
Budget iBook = G4 7447 --->Single core Yonah
Paris?!? I doubt it, unless they go 13 and 15 inch widescreen Powerbook G4 7448 and 17 inch Widescreen G5.....
Ah but can the Conroe CPU run on a dual processor board? I dont see the Powermac using the Server chip (whitefield or whatever its called). Intel tends to make the CPU's locked to a certain number of sockets, the current P4 cant run on a dual processor board, only the Xeon can.
Ah but can the Conroe CPU run on a dual processor board?
Perhaps not but G5's are more Opteron/Xeon class anyway so I don't don't see why not include a Whitefield.
The thing from Intel seems to be adding more low power cores now rather than multiple chips though. One of their tech guys was talking up the possibility of 8 core chips in the future.
It's just a pity we've got OSX based on Unix now instead of BeOS in that respect although 10.4 is a lot better than 10.3 in that respect. Makes you wonder if the multi-core thing was already known about much earlier in 10.4's life.
They also announced a 1.25Ghz XScale ARM chip as well. My phone may end up with more processing power than an iBook!
Let's face it. Going Intel is going to open Mac and Apple up to a universe of possibilties they both just didn't have. ...
It opens some possibilities, but it also closes off some possibilities too.
For one, Conroe and Merom, et al. will not work dual-processor. The Xeon-class processors which do (or will, in late 2006) are very expensive. Will people buy PowerMacs that start at $3500?
For another, Intel will probably not permit Apple to sell any AMD machines, or machines with Nvidia chipsets, etc. This will close off a lot of innovation done by third parties, such as TOA, which is not espoused by Intel itself. Intel has a strong NIH culture. Intel's business pressure may have other unforeseen impacts on Apple's products, too.
It opens some possibilities, but it also closes off some possibilities too.
For one, Conroe and Merom, et al. will not work dual-processor. The Xeon-class processors which do (or will, in late 2006) are very expensive. Will people buy PowerMacs that start at $3500?
For another, Intel will probably not permit Apple to sell any AMD machines, or machines with Nvidia chipsets, etc. This will close off a lot of innovation done by third parties, such as TOA, which is not espoused by Intel itself. Intel has a strong NIH culture. Intel's business pressure may have other unforeseen impacts on Apple's products, too.
Being part of PPC would have closed off way more possibilities than those outlined by the Intel Conference.
Well, they're dual processor. ie Dual Core. No different to what we have today. Except, it looks like Intel are going to outpace IBM going forwards for the computer segment IBM are rapidly getting out of. At IBM's current rate of development...we may get the Intel 06 chips sooner. Lower powered...cooler and more powerful. So, we won't lose anything. And Apple, if they do offer 'dual dual'. Why do you think that is? Same reason they offered dual processors in the first place. Because Motorola stalled at 500mhz. IBM have stalled at 2.5/7-ish.
And you can bet Apple will love to sell customers 'dual dual core' 'Xeons'. Because a 'dual core' will be competitive with all the other Intel products on Dell machines but have 'X' and iSuite and superior all in one widget factor. We won't have to use two processors to 'keep up'. So, 'dual dual' from Apple's point of view becomes unnecessary. It creates more product lines and revenue for them. Apple won't be 'behind' anymore after a 'leap and lull' of PPC promise. We'll get what everybody else gets. But the software, the 'Mac' oneness 'zen' will be the differentiating factor. I'm happy day with that.
Apple will have access to a greater array of chipsets than it does now. With most of the donkey work done by Intel. A CPU partner that cares about Chips for computers, laptops...and even iPods?
Will people buy PowerMacs at at their current price? Nope. Judging by their numbers. Hiding sales in Quarterly Conference Call.
Will they buy competitive cpus, that come out on time? That have a road map? That run cool? That can be supplied to the box maker, Apple? In sufficient volume to keep customers and demand happy? That blow what the PPC has out the water going forwards?
I think they will.
Apple will be able to differentiate their product far more with what Intel has to offer than they ever did with PPC. Intel's product portfolio looks more diverse from where I'm sitting.
Ipods are certainly out of the running now. Only PM, PB imac and xserve "need" an update before the end of the year and Paris is the only standing in the middle.
Ipods are certainly out of the running now. Only PM, PB imac and xserve "need" an update before the end of the year and Paris is the only standing in the middle.
the imac is pretty far from needing an update before the end of the year.
Comments
Originally posted by icfireball
Hmm. If PowerMacs and Powerbooks are updated in Paris, I wouldn't expect any new intels intill WWDC, because, usualy the "Power" computers, as they are the pro selection, make the transition first. If they stopped calling it the G5, what kind of transition would be that for instance if the iBook got the i6 (random name) before the Powerbook did.
Actually, I don't think it's unfeasible that Pro models will be last.
Apple could quite easily transition the iBook and Mini first as they aren't used by Pros (in general) so once there's the OS, iLife and iWork running native Intel, a low power single core intel iBook would be spot on, and still slower than a 7448 PowerBook, but faster than the old iBook at most things.
iMac next which is good enough for most Pros so can't be slower than today. It'd also benefit from a lower power CPU such as the dual Yonah at 2Ghz+ which would make up for losing the single G5.
Next would be the Powerbook and that would get the dual core Yonah - 2Ghz+ in the 15/17 and maybe 1.8 dual in the 12" if Apple aren't going to use the same iBook in aluminium ploy.
Then the Xserve - plenty of time to transition there but it's also the easiest since they rarely run apps that can't be recompiled easily.
Then the PowerMac. That's a long way off as a dual-core dual G5 would toast anything from Intel currently and for some time unless the IDF shows something new. And it's here also where Apple needs developers to transition all their applications. I don't see that happening until Adobe CS 3 ships, Quark does an Intel version and all of Apples ProSuite is native Intel.
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
If you can wait. Wait for a MacTel June 2006. If a consumer Pentium M (G5-ish performance...) in an iBook/iMac/Mac Mini is your thing.
Want a PowerMac? Get a dual core one. Because 2007 is going to be a long wait. It will still run your PowerPC apps just fine. And any future Intel cpu will probably run your PPC apps in emulation just fine or faster than they do now.
You can't lose. Apple have thought this one through. X has been on Intel chips for five years.
Lemon Bon Bon
at last -- some sense on these boards
Originally posted by gar
get yourself a Heidi and get a life...
it's not a Ferrari it's a computer: obsolete in 7 years.
7 years? That's very optimistic.
I hope Apple does release dual-duals. There's some speculation that they won't, though, because Intel won't be able to release processors that will work dual-dual until well past 2007...
Originally posted by cubist
7 years? That's very optimistic.
I hope Apple does release dual-duals. There's some speculation that they won't, though, because Intel won't be able to release processors that will work dual-dual until well past 2007...
Not according to their IDF today. They were showing a system running dual-duals running Windows2003 already which are due 2nd half of '06.
http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/...spx?i=2503&p=2
Conroe show impressive perf per watt gains.
Paris 06, maybe?
Lemon Bon Bon
Pro = 64 bit G5 --> Dual core 64 bit Merom
Mainstream = G4 7448 ---> Dual core Yonah
Budget iBook = G4 7447 --->Single core Yonah
Paris?!? I doubt it, unless they go 13 and 15 inch widescreen Powerbook G4 7448 and 17 inch Widescreen G5.....
Originally posted by cubist
7 years? That's very optimistic.
indeed, it is.
but my powerbook G3 is almost 5.5 years old now, running 10.4.
when i replace it with something new, it will probally be an intelliated powerbook. (yonah/merom)
hopefully next year, probally even later.
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Not according to their IDF today. They were showing a system running dual-duals running Windows2003 already which are due 2nd half of '06.
http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/...spx?i=2503&p=2
Ah but can the Conroe CPU run on a dual processor board? I dont see the Powermac using the Server chip (whitefield or whatever its called). Intel tends to make the CPU's locked to a certain number of sockets, the current P4 cant run on a dual processor board, only the Xeon can.
Originally posted by Thereubster
Ah but can the Conroe CPU run on a dual processor board?
Perhaps not but G5's are more Opteron/Xeon class anyway so I don't don't see why not include a Whitefield.
The thing from Intel seems to be adding more low power cores now rather than multiple chips though. One of their tech guys was talking up the possibility of 8 core chips in the future.
It's just a pity we've got OSX based on Unix now instead of BeOS in that respect although 10.4 is a lot better than 10.3 in that respect. Makes you wonder if the multi-core thing was already known about much earlier in 10.4's life.
They also announced a 1.25Ghz XScale ARM chip as well. My phone may end up with more processing power than an iBook!
Originally posted by aegisdesign
They also announced a 1.25Ghz XScale ARM chip as well. My phone may end up with more processing power than an iBook!
Think Video iPod. I would think such a processor would handle that quite nicely.
Probbly could work aS A GameBoy Evolution CPU too. Would trash PSP pretty easy.
Intel has somebody in Apple to make their dreams come true.
Ditto Apple.
Star-Trek, here we come...
Lemon Bon Bon
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
Let's face it. Going Intel is going to open Mac and Apple up to a universe of possibilties they both just didn't have. ...
It opens some possibilities, but it also closes off some possibilities too.
For one, Conroe and Merom, et al. will not work dual-processor. The Xeon-class processors which do (or will, in late 2006) are very expensive. Will people buy PowerMacs that start at $3500?
For another, Intel will probably not permit Apple to sell any AMD machines, or machines with Nvidia chipsets, etc. This will close off a lot of innovation done by third parties, such as TOA, which is not espoused by Intel itself. Intel has a strong NIH culture. Intel's business pressure may have other unforeseen impacts on Apple's products, too.
It opens some possibilities, but it also closes off some possibilities too.
For one, Conroe and Merom, et al. will not work dual-processor. The Xeon-class processors which do (or will, in late 2006) are very expensive. Will people buy PowerMacs that start at $3500?
For another, Intel will probably not permit Apple to sell any AMD machines, or machines with Nvidia chipsets, etc. This will close off a lot of innovation done by third parties, such as TOA, which is not espoused by Intel itself. Intel has a strong NIH culture. Intel's business pressure may have other unforeseen impacts on Apple's products, too.
Being part of PPC would have closed off way more possibilities than those outlined by the Intel Conference.
Well, they're dual processor. ie Dual Core. No different to what we have today. Except, it looks like Intel are going to outpace IBM going forwards for the computer segment IBM are rapidly getting out of. At IBM's current rate of development...we may get the Intel 06 chips sooner. Lower powered...cooler and more powerful. So, we won't lose anything. And Apple, if they do offer 'dual dual'. Why do you think that is? Same reason they offered dual processors in the first place. Because Motorola stalled at 500mhz. IBM have stalled at 2.5/7-ish.
And you can bet Apple will love to sell customers 'dual dual core' 'Xeons'. Because a 'dual core' will be competitive with all the other Intel products on Dell machines but have 'X' and iSuite and superior all in one widget factor. We won't have to use two processors to 'keep up'. So, 'dual dual' from Apple's point of view becomes unnecessary. It creates more product lines and revenue for them. Apple won't be 'behind' anymore after a 'leap and lull' of PPC promise. We'll get what everybody else gets. But the software, the 'Mac' oneness 'zen' will be the differentiating factor. I'm happy day with that.
Apple will have access to a greater array of chipsets than it does now. With most of the donkey work done by Intel. A CPU partner that cares about Chips for computers, laptops...and even iPods?
Will people buy PowerMacs at at their current price? Nope. Judging by their numbers. Hiding sales in Quarterly Conference Call.
Will they buy competitive cpus, that come out on time? That have a road map? That run cool? That can be supplied to the box maker, Apple? In sufficient volume to keep customers and demand happy? That blow what the PPC has out the water going forwards?
I think they will.
Apple will be able to differentiate their product far more with what Intel has to offer than they ever did with PPC. Intel's product portfolio looks more diverse from where I'm sitting.
Lemon Bon Bon
Originally posted by fieldor
Ipods are certainly out of the running now. Only PM, PB imac and xserve "need" an update before the end of the year and Paris is the only standing in the middle.
the imac is pretty far from needing an update before the end of the year.
OMFG OMFG OMFG apple store is down!!!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by sunilraman
apple store is down. yes, i do have a life. okay, used to...
OMFG OMFG OMFG apple store is down!!!!!!!!!!
This can only mean that dual-quad-quad (8x!) processor PowerMacs will be announced today!
Good to have dreams... I am hoping a new PM is released in the near future.