The thing about bluetooth is that devices need to be paired up. So, in the case of the bluetooth mouse, this means that the mouse has to be "on" to pair up, using power even when you're not actually using the mouse. That's why the Apple BT mouse has an on/off switch on the bottom. If you left it on all the time, it would run out of power, even if your Mac was left powered off, because the mouse would always be "listening", waiting for a signal from any device (your mac in this case) to contact it, wanting to pair up. So, for this remote, it would have to either have an on/off switch, or else it would use power even when not in use. I think this is a pretty good argument against using bluetooth for a small and simple remote like this.
- JonYo
or as soon as you push a button it powers up, thousands of devices like that use that feature, like the keyless car entry. it doesn't work well with a mouse cause the laser has to be on to sense movement, and it would shut down while scroling the mouse and haven't clicked in a while
WOW! Front Row looks like Apple's attempt at Media Centre - and much better I might add. Spec is really good and built-in camera are great bonus. Is there anything missing from this amazing machine - it's also priced competitively.
Yeah, this iMac is very tempting indeed. I have the original FP 15" iMac 700, so it'll be quite the jump.
However, I told myself I wouldn't buy another all in one...that my next desktop would be either a G5 mini Mac (but that ain't here...yet), or a refurbished 2 Ghz G5 dualie PowerMac.
Damn Apple! You're making my decision making more and more difficult all the time!
or as soon as you push a button it powers up, thousands of devices like that use that feature, like the keyless car entry. it doesn't work well with a mouse cause the laser has to be on to sense movement, and it would shut down while scroling the mouse and haven't clicked in a while
Most one-way remote control devices use no power whatsoever until you press a button and a signal is sent. No communication is maintained between button-presses. Those remote control devices have no on/off switch, because essentially they "power on" when you press the button, and "power off" when you release it.
Bluetooth devices don't work that way. Bluetooth as a protocol is designed for 2-way communication, so, the protocol is designed so that BOTH sides are listening all the time for incoming transmissions from paired devices. That's why the communication is kept open as long as they are paired. In a bluetooth one-way remote, the pairing would still have to be maintained all the time (requiring power on both devices) for the remote to work, despite the fact that it's a one-way situation, with the remote never needing to receive anything back from the host of the pairing (ie- the Mac). That's the nature of the Bluetooth protocol.
The only way to make a bluetooth remote control that would NOT have to maintain a constant connection with the computer, and therefore NOT have to use power all the time, would be to make a button press on the remote contact the Mac/computer, initiate the bluetooth connection, wait for the connection to be established so both sides are ready to talk, then send the signal for whichever button was pressed (up, down, select, whatever), and then disconnect the bluetooth connection and power off. Establishing the bluetooth conenction would cause a big delay, making this whole idea pretty much useless.
So, short version, the nature of the bluetooth protocol makes it less than idea for one-way remote controls because of the need for constant power.
It's for this very reason that I never use my Apple bluetooth mouse anymore, because unless I remember to turn off the mouse, it eats through batteries way too much, always holding that bluetooth connection open.
The benefits from DDR2 are questionable at this point (see latency), but more important is the fact that Apple changed the RAM slot design and now we have a module soldered on. Which makes the once affordable 2 GB mark (2.5 GB with the current design) prohibitively expensive.
Yeah, that's the first thing I noticed with the new design ...
It was a similar with iMac G4, back when a 1GB SO-DIMM for its one user-accessible slot was ~$400(!) and with only 256MB in a hard-to-access internal slot. I'd considered buying that system for awhile then ended up with an eMac instead; faster HD, nicer DVD burner, and two slots for cheaper DIMM modules.
I've got 2GB in my rev B iMac so having 1.5GB in a rev C makes it less enticing.
The thing about bluetooth is that devices need to be paired up. So, in the case of the bluetooth mouse, this means that the mouse has to be "on" to pair up, using power even when you're not actually using the mouse. That's why the Apple BT mouse has an on/off switch on the bottom. If you left it on all the time, it would run out of power, even if your Mac was left powered off, because the mouse would always be "listening", waiting for a signal from any device (your mac in this case) to contact it, wanting to pair up.
Are you saying it should be possible to power off the BT mouse and have it automatically re-pair when it's powered on?
When my Apple BT mouse loses its pairing with my iMac (for any reason) it never automatically re-pairs. Only options are to redo the pairing or reboot. It's a hassle when I change batteries (NiMH rechargeables) but if I do it quickly enough it won't lose pairing.
I just bought an iMac 2 months ago and now this...Im pissed. I should have waited.
Everyone who bought a rev B iMac (I did) could be "pissed" since this was one of Apple's shortest update cycles. Heck, two months ago was just past the midpoint. It's not like you bought it two weeks ago. Suck it up.
Are you saying it should be possible to power off the BT mouse and have it automatically re-pair when it's powered on?
When my Apple BT mouse loses its pairing with my iMac (for any reason) it never automatically re-pairs. Only options are to redo the pairing or reboot. It's a hassle when I change batteries (NiMH rechargeables) but if I do it quickly enough it won't lose pairing.
I'm not entirely sure if it could be made to automatically re-pair with the Mac without requiring the Mac to be left in bluetooth "discoverable mode" all the time. I know that the Mac would detect my bluetooth mouse automatically during bootup (when I used to use it, I don't anymore) if I powered the mouse on before powering the Mac on, assuming they were paired up at the time I last shut down. But when the mouse lost the pairing for some other reason while everythinig was already powered on and paired, you're right, it wouldn't re-pair unless I went through the re-pairing process manually. Pretty lame. So...who knows. The only advantage to making a bluetooth remot control would be compatabilty with all computers with bluetooth, not requiring some dongly thing on the computer end. But, like I said, it doesn't seem practical because of the nature of the bluetooth protocol, especially if it's just to save the inconveience of having some dongle (USB, or whatever) on the computer end.
I'm not entirely sure if it could be made to automatically re-pair with the Mac without requiring the Mac to be left in bluetooth "discoverable mode" all the time.
The "Discoverable" Bluetooth setting is enabled on my iMac.
Quote:
I know that the Mac would detect my bluetooth mouse automatically during bootup (when I used to use it, I don't anymore) if I powered the mouse on before powering the Mac on, assuming they were paired up at the time I last shut down. But when the mouse lost the pairing for some other reason while everythinig was already powered on and paired, you're right, it wouldn't re-pair unless I went through the re-pairing process manually. Pretty lame. So...who knows.
Thanks for confirming mine's not a unique experience. Sometimes my BT keyboard losing pairing but it does reconnect after about 10-20 seconds. Once yesterday and again this morning the keyboard has had a particularly nasty problem with the delete key "sticking", irretrievably erasing a bunch of text, then disconnecting/reconnecting. Lost at least an hour of some finer writing to that. Normally I save more often and of course one of the few times I don't... argh! Both times I was furiously clicking the Desktop hoping to abort it... today I seemed to have more success. Another time might be reason to abandon the BT keyboard. Oh, I'd just changed the batteries last week and they last around six months.
Anyway, thanks for the useful feedback. Oh, which mouse do you use now?
I'm not entirely sure if it could be made to automatically re-pair with the Mac without requiring the Mac to be left in bluetooth "discoverable mode" all the time. I know that the Mac would detect my bluetooth mouse automatically during bootup (when I used to use it, I don't anymore) if I powered the mouse on before powering the Mac on, assuming they were paired up at the time I last shut down. But when the mouse lost the pairing for some other reason while everythinig was already powered on and paired, you're right, it wouldn't re-pair unless I went through the re-pairing process manually.
Huh??? I don't have the Apple Bluetooth mouse, but something must be seriously screwed up with it if you have to re-pair it all the time. I turn my Bluetooth devices on and off all the time, and I've never had to pair them again with my Mac. That is the whole point of pairing the devices, so that you don't have to do it again.
Huh??? I don't have the Apple Bluetooth mouse, but something must be seriously screwed up with it if you have to re-pair it all the time. I turn my Bluetooth devices on and off all the time, and I've never had to pair them again with my Mac. That is the whole point of pairing the devices, so that you don't have to do it again.
I'm suspecting this might be Apple BT mouse-specific. AppleCare was clueless about it and I haven't thoroughly researched the issue. Like I mentioned, the KB does auto-re-pair okay.
Huh??? I don't have the Apple Bluetooth mouse, but something must be seriously screwed up with it if you have to re-pair it all the time. I turn my Bluetooth devices on and off all the time, and I've never had to pair them again with my Mac. That is the whole point of pairing the devices, so that you don't have to do it again.
True, it shouldn't act the way it does, but it does. It's not just my mouse, it appears to be anyone with an Apple BT mouse from what others have told me. I don't have any other BT mouse, as I'm fine with wired, and can't justify the cost of the wireless. The Apple BT mouse was a gift. It and my apple BT keyboard are just kinda collecting dust now. Maybe I should ebay them.
Comments
Originally posted by jonyo
The thing about bluetooth is that devices need to be paired up. So, in the case of the bluetooth mouse, this means that the mouse has to be "on" to pair up, using power even when you're not actually using the mouse. That's why the Apple BT mouse has an on/off switch on the bottom. If you left it on all the time, it would run out of power, even if your Mac was left powered off, because the mouse would always be "listening", waiting for a signal from any device (your mac in this case) to contact it, wanting to pair up. So, for this remote, it would have to either have an on/off switch, or else it would use power even when not in use. I think this is a pretty good argument against using bluetooth for a small and simple remote like this.
- JonYo
or as soon as you push a button it powers up, thousands of devices like that use that feature, like the keyless car entry. it doesn't work well with a mouse cause the laser has to be on to sense movement, and it would shut down while scroling the mouse and haven't clicked in a while
However, I told myself I wouldn't buy another all in one...that my next desktop would be either a G5 mini Mac (but that ain't here...yet), or a refurbished 2 Ghz G5 dualie PowerMac.
Damn Apple! You're making my decision making more and more difficult all the time!
Originally posted by Splinemodel
I use that technique to save power on battery powered outdoor devices with LEDs.
The previous revision of the iMac G5 had the ambient light sensor too.
its not often that i have to change the batteries in TV type remotes, but it does happen
Originally posted by i-am-an-elf
or as soon as you push a button it powers up, thousands of devices like that use that feature, like the keyless car entry. it doesn't work well with a mouse cause the laser has to be on to sense movement, and it would shut down while scroling the mouse and haven't clicked in a while
Most one-way remote control devices use no power whatsoever until you press a button and a signal is sent. No communication is maintained between button-presses. Those remote control devices have no on/off switch, because essentially they "power on" when you press the button, and "power off" when you release it.
Bluetooth devices don't work that way. Bluetooth as a protocol is designed for 2-way communication, so, the protocol is designed so that BOTH sides are listening all the time for incoming transmissions from paired devices. That's why the communication is kept open as long as they are paired. In a bluetooth one-way remote, the pairing would still have to be maintained all the time (requiring power on both devices) for the remote to work, despite the fact that it's a one-way situation, with the remote never needing to receive anything back from the host of the pairing (ie- the Mac). That's the nature of the Bluetooth protocol.
The only way to make a bluetooth remote control that would NOT have to maintain a constant connection with the computer, and therefore NOT have to use power all the time, would be to make a button press on the remote contact the Mac/computer, initiate the bluetooth connection, wait for the connection to be established so both sides are ready to talk, then send the signal for whichever button was pressed (up, down, select, whatever), and then disconnect the bluetooth connection and power off. Establishing the bluetooth conenction would cause a big delay, making this whole idea pretty much useless.
So, short version, the nature of the bluetooth protocol makes it less than idea for one-way remote controls because of the need for constant power.
It's for this very reason that I never use my Apple bluetooth mouse anymore, because unless I remember to turn off the mouse, it eats through batteries way too much, always holding that bluetooth connection open.
- JonYo
Originally posted by PB
The benefits from DDR2 are questionable at this point (see latency), but more important is the fact that Apple changed the RAM slot design and now we have a module soldered on. Which makes the once affordable 2 GB mark (2.5 GB with the current design) prohibitively expensive.
Yeah, that's the first thing I noticed with the new design ...
It was a similar with iMac G4, back when a 1GB SO-DIMM for its one user-accessible slot was ~$400(!) and with only 256MB in a hard-to-access internal slot. I'd considered buying that system for awhile then ended up with an eMac instead; faster HD, nicer DVD burner, and two slots for cheaper DIMM modules.
I've got 2GB in my rev B iMac so having 1.5GB in a rev C makes it less enticing.
Originally posted by jonyo
The thing about bluetooth is that devices need to be paired up. So, in the case of the bluetooth mouse, this means that the mouse has to be "on" to pair up, using power even when you're not actually using the mouse. That's why the Apple BT mouse has an on/off switch on the bottom. If you left it on all the time, it would run out of power, even if your Mac was left powered off, because the mouse would always be "listening", waiting for a signal from any device (your mac in this case) to contact it, wanting to pair up.
Are you saying it should be possible to power off the BT mouse and have it automatically re-pair when it's powered on?
When my Apple BT mouse loses its pairing with my iMac (for any reason) it never automatically re-pairs. Only options are to redo the pairing or reboot. It's a hassle when I change batteries (NiMH rechargeables) but if I do it quickly enough it won't lose pairing.
Originally posted by ROCjetblue320
I just bought an iMac 2 months ago and now this...Im pissed. I should have waited.
Everyone who bought a rev B iMac (I did) could be "pissed" since this was one of Apple's shortest update cycles. Heck, two months ago was just past the midpoint. It's not like you bought it two weeks ago. Suck it up.
Originally posted by sjk
Are you saying it should be possible to power off the BT mouse and have it automatically re-pair when it's powered on?
When my Apple BT mouse loses its pairing with my iMac (for any reason) it never automatically re-pairs. Only options are to redo the pairing or reboot. It's a hassle when I change batteries (NiMH rechargeables) but if I do it quickly enough it won't lose pairing.
I'm not entirely sure if it could be made to automatically re-pair with the Mac without requiring the Mac to be left in bluetooth "discoverable mode" all the time. I know that the Mac would detect my bluetooth mouse automatically during bootup (when I used to use it, I don't anymore) if I powered the mouse on before powering the Mac on, assuming they were paired up at the time I last shut down. But when the mouse lost the pairing for some other reason while everythinig was already powered on and paired, you're right, it wouldn't re-pair unless I went through the re-pairing process manually. Pretty lame. So...who knows. The only advantage to making a bluetooth remot control would be compatabilty with all computers with bluetooth, not requiring some dongly thing on the computer end. But, like I said, it doesn't seem practical because of the nature of the bluetooth protocol, especially if it's just to save the inconveience of having some dongle (USB, or whatever) on the computer end.
- JonYo
Originally posted by jonyo
I'm not entirely sure if it could be made to automatically re-pair with the Mac without requiring the Mac to be left in bluetooth "discoverable mode" all the time.
The "Discoverable" Bluetooth setting is enabled on my iMac.
I know that the Mac would detect my bluetooth mouse automatically during bootup (when I used to use it, I don't anymore) if I powered the mouse on before powering the Mac on, assuming they were paired up at the time I last shut down. But when the mouse lost the pairing for some other reason while everythinig was already powered on and paired, you're right, it wouldn't re-pair unless I went through the re-pairing process manually. Pretty lame. So...who knows.
Thanks for confirming mine's not a unique experience. Sometimes my BT keyboard losing pairing but it does reconnect after about 10-20 seconds. Once yesterday and again this morning the keyboard has had a particularly nasty problem with the delete key "sticking", irretrievably erasing a bunch of text, then disconnecting/reconnecting. Lost at least an hour of some finer writing to that. Normally I save more often and of course one of the few times I don't... argh! Both times I was furiously clicking the Desktop hoping to abort it... today I seemed to have more success. Another time might be reason to abandon the BT keyboard. Oh, I'd just changed the batteries last week and they last around six months.
Anyway, thanks for the useful feedback. Oh, which mouse do you use now?
Originally posted by jonyo
I'm not entirely sure if it could be made to automatically re-pair with the Mac without requiring the Mac to be left in bluetooth "discoverable mode" all the time. I know that the Mac would detect my bluetooth mouse automatically during bootup (when I used to use it, I don't anymore) if I powered the mouse on before powering the Mac on, assuming they were paired up at the time I last shut down. But when the mouse lost the pairing for some other reason while everythinig was already powered on and paired, you're right, it wouldn't re-pair unless I went through the re-pairing process manually.
Huh??? I don't have the Apple Bluetooth mouse, but something must be seriously screwed up with it if you have to re-pair it all the time. I turn my Bluetooth devices on and off all the time, and I've never had to pair them again with my Mac. That is the whole point of pairing the devices, so that you don't have to do it again.
Originally posted by a_greer
Funny: the iMac has a better interface than the powermac...
Which "better interface"?
Originally posted by pmjoe
Huh??? I don't have the Apple Bluetooth mouse, but something must be seriously screwed up with it if you have to re-pair it all the time. I turn my Bluetooth devices on and off all the time, and I've never had to pair them again with my Mac. That is the whole point of pairing the devices, so that you don't have to do it again.
I'm suspecting this might be Apple BT mouse-specific. AppleCare was clueless about it and I haven't thoroughly researched the issue. Like I mentioned, the KB does auto-re-pair okay.
Originally posted by pmjoe
Huh??? I don't have the Apple Bluetooth mouse, but something must be seriously screwed up with it if you have to re-pair it all the time. I turn my Bluetooth devices on and off all the time, and I've never had to pair them again with my Mac. That is the whole point of pairing the devices, so that you don't have to do it again.
True, it shouldn't act the way it does, but it does. It's not just my mouse, it appears to be anyone with an Apple BT mouse from what others have told me. I don't have any other BT mouse, as I'm fine with wired, and can't justify the cost of the wireless. The Apple BT mouse was a gift. It and my apple BT keyboard are just kinda collecting dust now. Maybe I should ebay them.
- JonYo