So an iMac G5 "offers industry-leading price-performance", whereas an Xserve G5, which is specced higher, does not? Granted, the Xserve hasn't really been updated in a while and doesn't yet feature PCIe nor DDR2, but it's still not exactly a "'weaker member' of Apple's product line".
It is also priced higher and it is used in a different market.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Xserves based on x86 in addition to the G5 based ones -- perhaps a 970MP/DDR2 based unit. The x86 unit would turn in better integer performance and might be more appropriate for some workloads.
I totally agree that cost was not the factor in moving to the Intel chip. The reason has always been the power consumption issues with regard to the CPUs used in the PowerBooks.
As to which Macs will be first to be make the switch I believe the portables and the consumer computers would be first to go. Because of the type of applications that usually run on the XServes, I am not so sure that a move to Intel would make a difference straight away. For high performance applications, where power consumption is not much of an issue the PowerPC chips used in the PowerMac and the XServe fit the bill right.
Thinking about it a bit more, maybe the computers that will move first are those still using the PowerPC G4, so that would mean the Portables and the Mac minis.
According to an article at Powerpage, there is rumor/speculation that Firewire might be missing from the Intel iBooks. That would be a real bummer, as Firewire is an important part of my backup world. Being able to boot from Firewire in an emergency is a necessity for me, whether an entry level machine like an iBook or a high end machine like a PowerMac G5.
That'd be idiocy. You can't install a second drive inside a portable-- how else are you supposed to be able to boot a backup, or emergency drive? Booting from CD/DVD is dog-slow.
Price-performance is the key word here. It's not just about being having a higher spec, it's about it's spec and price compare with others in it's market segment. The Xserve is a great machine but it hasn't been updated in a while. If it's due an update, and Apple is moving to Intel, it may make sense to just move straight.
Once Conroe is out, that may make sense. But the current Xeon offerings are pathetic. Opteron would be a good alternative, but that's obviously not gonna happen. So I urge Apple to instead just upgrade to 970MP.
Mine is 4 1/2 years old -- a G3 500 MHz dual-USB silver iBook.
(...) but honestly, my iBook is eminently usable for day-to-day work as a full-time student.
Just try an ibook G4, you will see a BIG difference... my DELL inspiron P3 600Mhz/windows 2k is much faster than my ibook G3 500 / X.4.3, and i bought them at the same time for almost the same price...
The ibook is just a mail/iTunes station now, while the PC is still more than OK for web/photos/video viewing and basic working...
Mine is 4 1/2 years old -- a G3 500 MHz dual-USB silver iBook.
Now I've admittedly maxed out the RAM at 576 MB, and replaced the original 10 GB HD with a 40 GB drive, but honestly, my iBook is eminently usable for day-to-day work as a full-time student.
Those unfamiliar with Macintosh find it hard to believe, but it's very true, the OS gets faster with every release, and as a result the hardware can be very long-lived.
I have this machine, though with only 384MB RAM and the original 10GB HD. But I just supplanted it as my main machine with a new quad. It's very nice.
APPLE deserves its praise. I use to be a build it yourself computer person but spent way too much money and time building and playing inside my machines. Then 3 years ago my wife wanted me to get a small laptop to go to India with. I couldn't find one and wanted a beast. I foolishly walked into an APPLE store and there was this crappy 12 inch iBook. "Don't worry" I said "it will be too expensive." "Crap" I said "its $1000 less than the beast". So my wife urged me to get it and... it was Great. I could do so much more than I had ever expected on a computer. Sure you don't normally take notebooks apart but why would I. It had everything I needed at the time. Adding to my Macland I have purchased a new 1.9Ghz G5 iMac and I love it. APPLE is great and deserves praise for bringing fun and great product to market. As for Intel MAC's, as long as the systems are still closed boxes that have style I will be happy, and when I upgrade to a new iBook or PowerBook I will probably like to see if I can install Windows just for Lan Parties. I have a dream that Windows will run at full speed with Direct X support in an Apple Window. That way I can play more games with my friends. Still more games might come APPLES way now that the Chip will be the same. Wonder how long it will be before Intel only games come out for MAC's?
Just try an ibook G4, you will see a BIG difference... my DELL inspiron P3 600Mhz/windows 2k is much faster than my ibook G3 500 / X.4.3, and i bought them at the same time for almost the same price...
The ibook is just a mail/iTunes station now, while the PC is still more than OK for web/photos/video viewing and basic working...
Uhh...you're running the newest and best OS from Apple on that iBook, while the Dell is using a 6-year-old OS- of course it will be faster.
But when they do come to a city near you, they seem to know what they're doing! Hope you're not too far from Kuala Lumpur or Singapore, they should get a good one somtime in the decade at this rate....
heh. i am in KL at the moment yeah in terms of apple asia pacific, australia (sydney+melbourne), singapore, and japan are rocking on and both the apple management and consumers and partners "get it". in these cases the iPod phenomenon has fueled tremendous growth and bolstered the previously known but boutique brand called Apple.
in KL though, let alone the rest of malaysia, i would assert that apple malaysia has only been in it to move X amount of product for X amount of profit ~ generally i feel this is because apple malaysia is directly supervised by apple singapore and volumes of units and revenues is maybe 10% compared to what singapore is able to move.... hmmm
i'm afraid the market here is still too small for apple cupertino to establish a more official presence here. yeah, maybe 2008-2010 with a complete portfolio of affordable digital media players, home theatres, personal computers, pdas, and phones
Well, in every second post, Apple users claim OS X gets only faster from release to release...
It is my observation too that 2K/XP is faster on similarly clocked hardware, while OS X is more usable and feels more modern.
heh. that claim is certainly very well founded. feel free to dig up benchmarks or study it yourself -- get a G4 800mhz with say 256mb ram. run 10.0 then 10.1 then 10.2 then 10.3 then 10.4 then 10.4.3 on it and you'll see
yeah, 2k/XP does sometimes feel a bit faster on "similarly clocked hardware" but once you load a few programs and have background processes, it generally all goes to shit with unexpected pauses, some lockups, etc. etc. process priority handling even in XP is totally fucked. i have found xp to not be too bad, but only after a while of tinkering and experimentation with turning off a whole load of bollocks services, not installing antivirus, not using java, selective hardware management (eg. not using rubbish wifi pci cards and their bollocks drivers) and selective driver management and also a long but fruitful voyage of overclocking.
edit: and also manually setting process priorities when having several background processes eg. video encoding, bittorrents, etc.
So what are the mistakes. I am unsure what you mean. Are they not APPLE COMPUTERS. Are they not iMacs and eMacs. What is your point. If it is because I used capitals then you are probably upset that I also refer to GOD as GOD and when I talk about GOD as HIM I use HIM. and JESUS gets the same helping. Now the real question is do I want to place APPLE at the same level as GOD. The answer is no. So I will now use APPle to signify that they are under GOD and of course myself ALPICH. hehehe. that was fun. I crack myself up.
Seriously. What did I do wrong and are errors hated that much it deserve a post in the forum? Because if they are I am sure to get a lot of posts as my English skills lack greatly.
No, they are Apple Computer. Note also the lack of plural.
Quote:
If it is because I used capitals
Yes.
Not to mention putting an apostrophe where it doesn't belong, for a plural: "MAC's" as opposed to "Macs", and not putting it where it does belong: "APPLES" as opposed to "Apple's".
Anal? Yes, I am. I consider people who type like you impolite, and I don't accept your excuse that you're not a native speaker -- I'm not either.
No, they are Apple Computer. Note also the lack of plural.
Yes.
Not to mention putting an apostrophe where it doesn't belong, for a plural: "MAC's" as opposed to "Macs", and not putting it where it does belong: "APPLES" as opposed to "Apple's".
Anal? Yes, I am. I consider people who type like you impolite, and I don't accept your excuse that you're not a native speaker -- I'm not either.
There are other reason other than being impolite. I am a native speaker. I never claimed to be anything else, just not good at it. The fact that I now have a degree (all be it in social work) is a mirical. As for you bein Anal? Your Problem! I suggest Milk of Magnesia. It is a great laxitive that might get loose your carrot. I do however take your point about Mac's being Macs. Slip of the typing a number of times. As for APPle COMPuters (Partially Capitals - being Less that GOD All Capitals) I guess you will have something to waist your Anality on. (I still crack myself up). Finally... I didn't ask for your approval nor should I have to seek it for the way I use the English Language. So in conclusion, like a good Ozzi. Fair suck of the sab mate, liten up yer old codger, its just words, She'll be right and Oroo, yeh but.
According to an article at Powerpage, there is rumor/speculation that Firewire might be missing from the Intel iBooks. That would be a real bummer, as Firewire is an important part of my backup world. Being able to boot from Firewire in an emergency is a necessity for me, whether an entry level machine like an iBook or a high end machine like a PowerMac G5.
Personally, I will not get an iBook that does not have FireWire because my iPod and external LaCie DVD drive use FireWire but my external drive (backups) has both USB and FireWire connections so that is no big deal unless I can't boot from the drive while using the USB connection. If you are just doing backups an external USB drive should not be too bad since you can do other things while the backup is happening. If you are using it for storing files/projects that you need to be interacting with (video/photo editing) then USB will not fly.
If you look at the Mac mini you will see that the high-end model does not contain a modem, but you can get it as a BTO option so I can see Apple doing something similar with the iBooks such as:
1 - removing the modem to make room for audio line-in or third USB port.
2 - removing FireWire to make room for third USB port. Schools would probably go for this model since student have no need for FireWire.
3 - remove modem so video out can become mini-DVI. This one might be treading on the "pro" line's toes.
If Apple does get rid of FireWire as a standard feature, I think they will at least offer it as a BTO option.
I have two questions:
1 - Is there a USB 3.0 specification for faster data transfers?
2 - How useful/easy to use are sub-notebooks?
The reason why I asked about sub-notebooks is I saw one and the screen was so small it did not look useful for anything but text based (emails, TextEdit, Word, Terminal, web browsing, etc.) applications.
Comments
Originally posted by Chucker
So an iMac G5 "offers industry-leading price-performance", whereas an Xserve G5, which is specced higher, does not? Granted, the Xserve hasn't really been updated in a while and doesn't yet feature PCIe nor DDR2, but it's still not exactly a "'weaker member' of Apple's product line".
It is also priced higher and it is used in a different market.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Xserves based on x86 in addition to the G5 based ones -- perhaps a 970MP/DDR2 based unit. The x86 unit would turn in better integer performance and might be more appropriate for some workloads.
As to which Macs will be first to be make the switch I believe the portables and the consumer computers would be first to go. Because of the type of applications that usually run on the XServes, I am not so sure that a move to Intel would make a difference straight away. For high performance applications, where power consumption is not much of an issue the PowerPC chips used in the PowerMac and the XServe fit the bill right.
Thinking about it a bit more, maybe the computers that will move first are those still using the PowerPC G4, so that would mean the Portables and the Mac minis.
Originally posted by Kansas
No Firewire?
According to an article at Powerpage, there is rumor/speculation that Firewire might be missing from the Intel iBooks. That would be a real bummer, as Firewire is an important part of my backup world. Being able to boot from Firewire in an emergency is a necessity for me, whether an entry level machine like an iBook or a high end machine like a PowerMac G5.
That'd be idiocy. You can't install a second drive inside a portable-- how else are you supposed to be able to boot a backup, or emergency drive? Booting from CD/DVD is dog-slow.
Originally posted by david_oc
Price-performance is the key word here. It's not just about being having a higher spec, it's about it's spec and price compare with others in it's market segment. The Xserve is a great machine but it hasn't been updated in a while. If it's due an update, and Apple is moving to Intel, it may make sense to just move straight.
Once Conroe is out, that may make sense. But the current Xeon offerings are pathetic. Opteron would be a good alternative, but that's obviously not gonna happen. So I urge Apple to instead just upgrade to 970MP.
Originally posted by ct77
Mine is 4 1/2 years old -- a G3 500 MHz dual-USB silver iBook.
(...) but honestly, my iBook is eminently usable for day-to-day work as a full-time student.
Just try an ibook G4, you will see a BIG difference... my DELL inspiron P3 600Mhz/windows 2k is much faster than my ibook G3 500 / X.4.3, and i bought them at the same time for almost the same price...
The ibook is just a mail/iTunes station now, while the PC is still more than OK for web/photos/video viewing and basic working...
Originally posted by ct77
3 year old iBook?
I got ya beat!
Mine is 4 1/2 years old -- a G3 500 MHz dual-USB silver iBook.
Now I've admittedly maxed out the RAM at 576 MB, and replaced the original 10 GB HD with a 40 GB drive, but honestly, my iBook is eminently usable for day-to-day work as a full-time student.
Those unfamiliar with Macintosh find it hard to believe, but it's very true, the OS gets faster with every release, and as a result the hardware can be very long-lived.
I have this machine, though with only 384MB RAM and the original 10GB HD. But I just supplanted it as my main machine with a new quad. It's very nice.
Originally posted by ALPICH
APPLE [..] APPLE [..] APPLE [..] MAC's [..] APPLES [..] MAC's?
For your convenience, mistakes have been marked.
Originally posted by Chucker
For your convenience, mistakes have been marked.
Ah, he's a switcher; cut 'im some slack.
Originally posted by belzebuth
Just try an ibook G4, you will see a BIG difference... my DELL inspiron P3 600Mhz/windows 2k is much faster than my ibook G3 500 / X.4.3, and i bought them at the same time for almost the same price...
The ibook is just a mail/iTunes station now, while the PC is still more than OK for web/photos/video viewing and basic working...
Uhh...you're running the newest and best OS from Apple on that iBook, while the Dell is using a 6-year-old OS- of course it will be faster.
on campus they are everywhere.
for some reason it kinda irks me.
my PB is about 3 years old and i gotta admit its time for an upgrade.
Originally posted by StealthRider
Uhh...you're running the newest and best OS from Apple on that iBook, while the Dell is using a 6-year-old OS- of course it will be faster.
Well, in every second post, Apple users claim OS X gets only faster from release to release...
It is my observation too that 2K/XP is faster on similarly clocked hardware, while OS X is more usable and feels more modern.
Originally posted by fuyutsuki
Bet you're looking forward to a local Apple Store
So am I ... Scotland is a few too many hundred miles from the big place in London:
http://www.apple.com/uk/retail/regen...ndopening.html
But when they do come to a city near you, they seem to know what they're doing! Hope you're not too far from Kuala Lumpur or Singapore, they should get a good one somtime in the decade at this rate....
heh. i am in KL at the moment
in KL though, let alone the rest of malaysia, i would assert that apple malaysia has only been in it to move X amount of product for X amount of profit ~ generally i feel this is because apple malaysia is directly supervised by apple singapore and volumes of units and revenues is maybe 10% compared to what singapore is able to move.... hmmm
i'm afraid the market here is still too small for apple cupertino to establish a more official presence here. yeah, maybe 2008-2010 with a complete portfolio of affordable digital media players, home theatres, personal computers, pdas, and phones
btw is apple store Sheffield closer to you now
Originally posted by Smircle
Well, in every second post, Apple users claim OS X gets only faster from release to release...
It is my observation too that 2K/XP is faster on similarly clocked hardware, while OS X is more usable and feels more modern.
heh. that claim is certainly very well founded. feel free to dig up benchmarks or study it yourself -- get a G4 800mhz with say 256mb ram. run 10.0 then 10.1 then 10.2 then 10.3 then 10.4 then 10.4.3 on it and you'll see
yeah, 2k/XP does sometimes feel a bit faster on "similarly clocked hardware" but once you load a few programs and have background processes, it generally all goes to shit with unexpected pauses, some lockups, etc. etc. process priority handling even in XP is totally fucked. i have found xp to not be too bad, but only after a while of tinkering and experimentation with turning off a whole load of bollocks services, not installing antivirus, not using java, selective hardware management (eg. not using rubbish wifi pci cards and their bollocks drivers) and selective driver management and also a long but fruitful voyage of overclocking.
edit: and also manually setting process priorities when having several background processes eg. video encoding, bittorrents, etc.
Originally posted by Chucker
For your convenience, mistakes have been marked.
So what are the mistakes. I am unsure what you mean. Are they not APPLE COMPUTERS. Are they not iMacs and eMacs. What is your point. If it is because I used capitals then you are probably upset that I also refer to GOD as GOD and when I talk about GOD as HIM I use HIM. and JESUS gets the same helping. Now the real question is do I want to place APPLE at the same level as GOD. The answer is no. So I will now use APPle to signify that they are under GOD and of course myself ALPICH. hehehe. that was fun. I crack myself up.
Seriously. What did I do wrong and are errors hated that much it deserve a post in the forum? Because if they are I am sure to get a lot of posts as my English skills lack greatly.
Originally posted by ALPICH
Are they not APPLE COMPUTERS.
No, they are Apple Computer. Note also the lack of plural.
If it is because I used capitals
Yes.
Not to mention putting an apostrophe where it doesn't belong, for a plural: "MAC's" as opposed to "Macs", and not putting it where it does belong: "APPLES" as opposed to "Apple's".
Anal? Yes, I am. I consider people who type like you impolite, and I don't accept your excuse that you're not a native speaker -- I'm not either.
Originally posted by Chucker
No, they are Apple Computer. Note also the lack of plural.
Yes.
Not to mention putting an apostrophe where it doesn't belong, for a plural: "MAC's" as opposed to "Macs", and not putting it where it does belong: "APPLES" as opposed to "Apple's".
Anal? Yes, I am. I consider people who type like you impolite, and I don't accept your excuse that you're not a native speaker -- I'm not either.
There are other reason other than being impolite. I am a native speaker. I never claimed to be anything else, just not good at it. The fact that I now have a degree (all be it in social work) is a mirical. As for you bein Anal? Your Problem! I suggest Milk of Magnesia. It is a great laxitive that might get loose your carrot. I do however take your point about Mac's being Macs. Slip of the typing a number of times. As for APPle COMPuters (Partially Capitals - being Less that GOD All Capitals) I guess you will have something to waist your Anality on. (I still crack myself up). Finally... I didn't ask for your approval nor should I have to seek it for the way I use the English Language. So in conclusion, like a good Ozzi. Fair suck of the sab mate, liten up yer old codger, its just words, She'll be right and Oroo, yeh but.
Originally posted by ALPICH
As for APPle COMPuters (Partially Capitals - being Less that GOD All Capitals)
I first thought you were just silly. Then I thought you were a troll. Now I know you're both.
Originally posted by Kansas
No Firewire?
According to an article at Powerpage, there is rumor/speculation that Firewire might be missing from the Intel iBooks. That would be a real bummer, as Firewire is an important part of my backup world. Being able to boot from Firewire in an emergency is a necessity for me, whether an entry level machine like an iBook or a high end machine like a PowerMac G5.
Personally, I will not get an iBook that does not have FireWire because my iPod and external LaCie DVD drive use FireWire but my external drive (backups) has both USB and FireWire connections so that is no big deal unless I can't boot from the drive while using the USB connection. If you are just doing backups an external USB drive should not be too bad since you can do other things while the backup is happening. If you are using it for storing files/projects that you need to be interacting with (video/photo editing) then USB will not fly.
If you look at the Mac mini you will see that the high-end model does not contain a modem, but you can get it as a BTO option so I can see Apple doing something similar with the iBooks such as:
1 - removing the modem to make room for audio line-in or third USB port.
2 - removing FireWire to make room for third USB port. Schools would probably go for this model since student have no need for FireWire.
3 - remove modem so video out can become mini-DVI. This one might be treading on the "pro" line's toes.
If Apple does get rid of FireWire as a standard feature, I think they will at least offer it as a BTO option.
I have two questions:
1 - Is there a USB 3.0 specification for faster data transfers?
2 - How useful/easy to use are sub-notebooks?
The reason why I asked about sub-notebooks is I saw one and the screen was so small it did not look useful for anything but text based (emails, TextEdit, Word, Terminal, web browsing, etc.) applications.