It's possible the second connector is a proprietary connector through which they can offer HDMI. Similar to current consoles where you can buy various cables to fit into one port. Obviously support for HDCP will be there on the graphics card so it is just a case of including or not including the actual connector.
Indeed. People are whining about it being 'crippled' without thinking about upgrades. Of course the low end model can be upgraded to HDMI, to not offer that would be madness. Perhaps Sony realises of the 100 million PS2 owners only 1% has a HDTV, it hasn't become mainstream by any means.
There are many who'd disagree and think blu-ray is more important to Sony than some console marketshare.
You have to understand how expensive AV hardware is sold, and sold to whom. The affluent doctor who is putting together a home theater isn't going to know the PS3 is a Blu-ray disc player. He isn't going to care. He's going to go to a high end A/V boutique or ask his contractor to put something together for him. Imagine what his reaction will be if they configure his system with the convex PS3, a barebones Blu-ray disc player at best.
If Sony expected the PS3 to be the definitive Blu-ray disc player, they wouldn't be marketing a more expensive standalone unit at the same time for $1000. Sony gains nothing by having the PS3 eat into its sales, so I'm guessing they aren't expecting much overlap here. Gamers are supposed to buy the PS3 and enjoy Blu-ray support as an afterthought. HT aficionados won't buy a PS3 to use primarily to watch Blu-ray based movies.
Indeed. People are whining about it being 'crippled' without thinking about upgrades. Of course the low end model can be upgraded to HDMI, to not offer that would be madness. Perhaps Sony realises of the 100 million PS2 owners only 1% has a HDTV, it hasn't become mainstream by any means.
IGN is saying that the $600 PS3 doesn't even have dual HDMI support. That means the standard 'display' port won't support HDMI at all. This isn't something that can be 'upgraded' later. Maybe you can add an external WiFi connection to a USB port, and maybe you can add an external USB Flash Card/Memory Stick reader. But how do you add the HDMI out port?
You have to understand how expensive AV hardware is sold, and sold to whom. The affluent doctor who is putting together a home theater isn't going to know the PS3 is a Blu-ray disc player. He isn't going to care. He's going to go to a high end A/V boutique or ask his contractor to put something together for him. Imagine what his reaction will be if they configure his system with the convex PS3, a barebones Blu-ray disc player at best.
If Sony expected the PS3 to be the definitive Blu-ray disc player, they wouldn't be marketing a more expensive standalone unit at the same time for $1000. Sony gains nothing by having the PS3 eat into its sales, so I'm guessing they aren't expecting much overlap here. Gamers are supposed to buy the PS3 and enjoy Blu-ray support as an afterthought. HT aficionados won't buy a PS3 to use primarily to watch Blu-ray based movies.
I don't think you quite understand. They aren't bothering to sell to that part of the market as HT aficionados will spend a lot more on a suitable system. The reason there are basically no low cost blu-ray players is because the companies are aware the PS3 exists. What the PS3 gives Sony is rapid marketshare.
The PS3 will get a blu-ray player into a lot of homes quickly at low cost that wouldn't be reached with straight blu-ray players. This is part of the reason blu-ray has such strong industry support, they simply anticipate PS3 will get far greater marketshare for blu-ray than HD-DVD by having it added with every console. The way the market has set it up it's a low cost blu-ray player with a console functionality, no doubt about it. Sony wouldn't have kept Blu-Ray drives in the PS3 if they weren't very serious about the PS3 being used as a media player, it is no after thought for them.
IGN is saying that the $600 PS3 doesn't even have dual HDMI support. That means the standard 'display' port won't support HDMI at all. This isn't something that can be 'upgraded' later. Maybe you can add an external WiFi connection to a USB port, and maybe you can add an external USB Flash Card/Memory Stick reader. But how do you add the HDMI out port?
I have eMail and telephoned SCEE to get it in words to make sure all this is 100% true, cause if it is I don't think I'll be buying me a PS 3. If there is no HDMI in the 20GB version it's an absolute disgrace!!
The PS3 will get a blu-ray player into a lot of homes quickly at low cost that wouldn't be reached with straight blu-ray players.
No, it won't. $600 is out of reach for the typical family who doesn't even own an HD capable television.
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This is part of the reason blu-ray has such strong industry support, they simply anticipate PS3 will get far greater marketshare for blu-ray than HD-DVD by having it added with every console. The way the market has set it up it's a low cost blu-ray player with a console functionality, no doubt about it.
The press event sure seemed to pimp it as a gaming console rather than a playback device. Where's the remote? It's clearly an overpriced console with Blu-ray capability. The gamble is on the games...that's why it's being sold at a loss. The potential for initial sales hinges on the gaming community, not the movie watchers.
do you people really think that some 14 year old is gonna be like "mommy get this 600 dollar machine for me, i wanna play games.... oh and look it has blu-ray"
and the mom in this recovering economy that is the U.S is just going to rush right over and buy one. riiight, not even 25 percent of households have HD-TV's and that came from sony's mouth at the conference.
"analyst jupiter predicts by so and so 25 percent of homes will have blu-ray"
wow, 25 percent? and thats not even now!
so whose sony marketing this bad boy to? no way in hell its for kids with middle income parents. maybe older 20somethings still living with mom and dad cuz i'd assume a 20 something renting out a place or paying a mortgage might think twice about a 600 dollar system plus a 60 dollar game...
maybe they are aiming to the upper class? but dont those people have better things to do? like make money?
do you people really think that some 14 year old is gonna be like "mommy get this 600 dollar machine for me, i wanna play games.... oh and look it has blu-ray"
and the mom in this recovering economy that is the U.S is just going to rush right over and buy one. riiight, not even 25 percent of households have HD-TV's and that came from sony's mouth at the conference.
"analyst jupiter predicts by so and so 25 percent of homes will have blu-ray"
wow, 25 percent? and thats not even now!
so whose sony marketing this bad boy to? no way in hell its for kids with middle income parents. maybe older 20somethings still living with mom and dad cuz i'd assume a 20 something renting out a place or paying a mortgage might think twice about a 600 dollar system plus a 60 dollar game...
maybe they are aiming to the upper class? but dont those people have better things to do? like make money?
can we call this system a Big FLOP.
Tell it to the people who shelled out $400 (and/or far more) for an xbox360 and a handful of games. And the 360 doesn't even have a next-gen player.
Wow, some of the whining on this board is amazing. Actually, I think the price points for $499 and $599 make quite good sense, especially when compared to what the competition, Xbox 360 has to offer.
Let's take a look at it logically, shall we. You have an Xbox 360 at $399. It doesn't even have an HD DVD drive, however you can add one, and it is expected to be no less than $125 although I'm thinking it will be around $150 -$200. Yet even at $125 you are already at $525 for an Xbox 360 that is still less capable as it will most likely only output to 1080i and have less content when it comes to movies. You might as well go for the cheaper $499 Blu-ray PS3 and have 1080i as well as a crap load of movies to play. Quite honestly, I'd just pay an extra $75 and get all the bells and whistles on the $599 PS3 with WiFi, Memory sticks, and HDMI port. So, really, this pricing really makes sense, especially when you consider it has next generation drive built in.
Furthermore, stop all the whining about how $599 is way too much. It amazes me that a whole lot of you probably forked over $599 for a Mac Mini or $399 for an iPod, and somehow $499 or $599 is way to much. We'll I guess then $525 for an Xbox 360 for you Microsoft fanboys is just wretched as well, huh?
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do you people really think that some 14 year old is gonna be like "mommy get this 600 dollar machine for me, i wanna play games.... oh and look it has blu-ray"
Umm, yeah, they will and in droves too. I guarantee you all 4 million units before December 31st will be sold out.
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can we call this system a Big FLOP.
Sure can't, as it far from it. Don't be mad because your $800 FUD prediction of the PS3's cost didn't come true. 4 million Blu-ray capable units into people's homes compared to HD DVDs thousands will certainly mark the end of the road for HD DVD in terms of marketshare and mindshare. The next wave will be even cheaper Blu-ray standalone players and burners from...well you know all those guys at the BDA...
You assume that everyone *wants* Blu-Ray or HD-DVD when most people don't even have a HDTV.
Consoles are supposed to be gaming machines first and media centers second. I understand that Sony wants to have the 25 GB of storage space that Blu-Ray disks offer for games, but Nintendo, Microsoft, and other 3rd parties don't seem to be running to Sony because they are running out of storage space for their games.
As I've said before, I'm buying a PS3. I went to preorder one earlier today, in fact, but found no stores that are taking them yet. I will end up buying the $600 model as well, and it definitely does hurt the wallet.
Microsoft offers the $299 Xbox 360 with no Hard Drive (so it cannot play backwards compatible games and you need a memory card to save), and it also does not have some of the other extras of the 360 (HD cables, wired vs. wireless controller, etc.).
But when it comes down to it, people are more likely to buy that $299 'next gen' console when the alternative comes in at $499 or $599. Like I said above, most people don't even have televisions that can take advantage of Blu-Ray or HD-DVD movies, so why buy a console for that feature?
Sony has also once again created a massive shortage of consoles for launch. 2 million for the 'worldwide launch window'. If North America got even half of those units (and I think that's the higher than most estimates), how many of those will be the $499 console and how many will be the $599 console? How many of each will be in black and how many will be in silver? When you consider these options, it's just going to be that much harder to find the console that you want to buy.
Also, Sony continues to pull features from the PS3. Forget dual HDMI out ports now, and apparently dual TV support is gone entirely. I'm hoping we have the final feature list now.
Again, I plan on buying the PS3 and the Wii when they launch and I already have a 360. But for many 360 and PS3 owners, HD video won't even be a consideration, so Microsoft allowing customers to have the choice of whether they want the external HD-DVD drive is looking like the better move for consumers right now. In the end, Sony will probably end up sacrificing console market share for HD Video market share.
marzetta you're really banking on the blu-ray player way too much.
a lot of people at this point really dont care for the drive.
how is it as a gaming machine? sony hasn't even shown us that.
what they have shown us is that they couldn't come up with their own ideas. their initial idea for a controller was a flop, so they brought back a tired rehash of the dual shock with stollen features from nintendo.
then they went along and created the market place similiar to microsofts.
i mean they are supposed to be the leaders of the industry? everything they have shown so far doesn't come close to the Killzone trailer of last year.
all their games look like the 360's games.... only at 600 bucks.
As a uber Game Console the PS3 look fine albeit expensive to get what you really want.
As an HD-DVD killer.....not gonna happen. Marzetta7 is doing a bit of backpedaling and appeasement. $800 FUD...I don't remember stating this but I did have my reservations about Blu Ray being cheaper than HD-DVD and it seems that Sony could not replicate the same price structure as HD-DVD.
It's a game console so it's impressive that they got it to $599 with a BD-ROM drive but if getting HD movies is important at the least costly entry level price then right now HD-DVD has once again not dissapointed. It's the value prop for movies and I expect it to remain that way.
Originally posted by Fran441 You assume that everyone *wants* Blu-Ray or HD-DVD when most people don't even have a HDTV.
Consoles are supposed to be gaming machines first and media centers second. I understand that Sony wants to have the 25 GB of storage space that Blu-Ray disks offer for games, but Nintendo, Microsoft, and other 3rd parties don't seem to be running to Sony because they are running out of storage space for their games.
I'm not assuming either. I'm being realistic when I say that the 4 million proposed PS3s will sell out and thereby implant built-in Blu-ray plaback to millions of homes worldwide. Even if "everyone" doesn't want Blu-ray or HD DVD, when those 4 million PS3s sell, they will already have Blu-ray. Get it? And for the majority of those who purchase the PS3, most will not likely go out and buy a standalone Blu-ray player, they'll just stick to their PS3 for movies.
What it appears you assume is that consoles live in a neat compartamentalized black box, supposing to be gaming machines first and media centers second. I know of many who will be purchasing the PS3 for both--Games and Movies--equally or for more preferably a cheaper alternative to other Blu-ray movie players in this early adoption HD market. I think the PS3 is Sony's first step out of the paradigm you and others try to keep it in which is a device strictly for games. I see a lot of good things that will come from this, not to mention Blu-ray format dominance.
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As I've said before, I'm buying a PS3. I went to preorder one earlier today, in fact, but found no stores that are taking them yet. I will end up buying the $600 model as well, and it definitely does hurt the wallet.
Microsoft offers the $299 Xbox 360 with no Hard Drive (so it cannot play backwards compatible games and you need a memory card to save), and it also does not have some of the other extras of the 360 (HD cables, wired vs. wireless controller, etc.).
But when it comes down to it, people are more likely to buy that $299 'next gen' console when the alternative comes in at $499 or $599. Like I said above, most people don't even have televisions that can take advantage of Blu-Ray or HD-DVD movies, so why buy a console for that feature?
That's just it though, the $299 or the $399 Xbox 360 models are not 'next gen' without the HD DVD add-on drive which will drive the cost up another $125+. And, by then, you might as well just spend an exrtra $50 to $75 or save $25 to $50--depending on what Xbox model we're talking about and how much the add-on will be--more for the $499 PS3 that has 7 out of the 8 major movie studios providing movies for it.
Moreover, even if you don't have a HDTV, people are going to buy the new console for new content--games and movies. Content will be most assuredly be a factor in the format war, and with more content on the Blu-ray train, HD DVD better step off the tracks as it's coming through.
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Sony has also once again created a massive shortage of consoles for launch. 2 million for the 'worldwide launch window'. If North America got even half of those units (and I think that's the higher than most estimates), how many of those will be the $499 console and how many will be the $599 console? How many of each will be in black and how many will be in silver? When you consider these options, it's just going to be that much harder to find the console that you want to buy.
Also, Sony continues to pull features from the PS3. Forget dual HDMI out ports now, and apparently dual TV support is gone entirely. I'm hoping we have the final feature list now.
Again, I plan on buying the PS3 and the Wii when they launch and I already have a 360. But for many 360 and PS3 owners, HD video won't even be a consideration, so Microsoft allowing customers to have the choice of whether they want the external HD-DVD drive is looking like the better move for consumers right now. In the end, Sony will probably end up sacrificing console market share for HD Video market share.
From what I understand this worldwide launch is even bigger than Microsoft's worldwide launch so they ought to be in better shape than Microsoft was at launch assuming there are no major setbacks at launch like Microsoft's chip shortages. I think 4 million consoles before December 31st will be quite good, and regardless if their black or silver, they're going to sell out, no doubt in my mind.
How does one pull features for a device that didn't really have any concrete specs until now? Sounds like you are just trying to find something to complain about.
I totally have to disagree with your last paragraph. I think a lot of Microsoft customers will be miffed when they find out that they have to fork over yet more money for yet another add-on when they thought they were getting the whole enchilada with the $399 model. Not so, and if we look at past add-on drives, sales of such add-ons are not very successful. I believe the Dreamcast or some other gaming console had a DVD add-on drive (someone correct me if I'm wrong about the Dreamcast of if it was some other console), which lets just say didn't light the world on fire and I expect the 360 HD DVD add-on to meet the same fate. Heck, with all the various add-ons, your 360 will probably resemble an octupus.
I think Sony's move to include the Blu-ray drive is a stellar one, and one that will pay off as more content is provided for the format and with HDTVs getting cheaper and cheaper, has the capability now and in the future to sell. Not to mention the fact that home users will want seamlessness with their PCs and/or Macs at home, and again with Blu-ray with the majority of players in the IT realm as well, it's not just a matter of if HD DVD will fail but a matter of when. I say HD DVD will be around a year and will go down as the next DIVX format.
The PS3 was the last opportunity to whack HD-DVD and if Sony could have delivered the $599 PS3 for the $499 price they'd be ok. However...they did not.
Say what you want but $600 is $600 and I'd rather have the opportunity to start out with a base $299 unit and accessorize my way up.
Sony says you must pay at least $500 and if you want the goodies shell out another C-Note.
Forget any hopes of a quick Blu Ray war. They'll be lucky to ensure they don't get overtaken. Count your studio advantage blessings and hope that doesn't evaporate.
I've screamed about the cost advantage of HD-DVD since the beginning and everytime it is displayed you guys go into your
blah blah bhal Studio support...blah blah blah CE Vendor support.
It'll be fun to watch those objections get demolished over the next year. Regards.
As a uber Game Console the PS3 look fine albeit expensive to get what you really want.
Vague, and yet the entry PS3 model will have all the capability that the higher end Xbox 360 model with the HD DVD add-on will have like hard drive and HD playback, but yet it will cost $25-$50 less. Remind me how this is expensive in regards to their competition?
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As an HD-DVD killer.....not gonna happen. Marzetta7 is doing a bit of backpedaling and appeasement. $800 FUD...I don't remember stating this but I did have my reservations about Blu Ray being cheaper than HD-DVD and it seems that Sony could not replicate the same price structure as HD-DVD.
I'm not sure what gave you this impression. Backpedaling, hardly. I'm downright giddy with the $499 and $599 price points. I never stated that "Hmurchison claimed $800 FUD," but I assure you it was mentioned on this thread in an attempt to spread FUD. By whom? Feel free to scan all the posts in this thread if you feel you have the time.
BTW, "it seems" Sony replicated the same price structure as HD DVD with a $499 price point. They did just that as Toshiba's player (only a player and poor one at that as has been mentioned all over the internet) is $499, so, I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. Not to mention, the PS3 is capable of playing both games and movies (and movies from 7 out of the 8 major studios). You get more bang for your buck going with the PS3 rather than the $499 Toshiba HD DVD standalone player. Consumers will see this, and most assuredly will decide with their wallets.
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It's a game console so it's impressive that they got it to $599 with a BD-ROM drive but if getting HD movies is important at the least costly entry level price then right now HD-DVD has once again not dissapointed. It's the value prop for movies and I expect it to remain that way. [/B]
They have both consoles with BD-ROM drives to be clear at $499 and at $599. So, HD playback and video games at $499 as compared to just playback with Toshiba's offering. Your last sentence is hilarious, "value prop for movies,"--yeah all movies from Universal while the rest of the studios side with Blu-ray. Moreover, as far as "movies" themselves go, disc price for HD DVD and Blu-ray are the same. Toshiba's player, $499, and the PS3, $499, are the same. So, what world are you living in?
blah blah bhal Studio support...blah blah blah CE Vendor support.
Without those you have nothing. Who's drinking the Kool-Aid now?
By the way, speaking of Microsoft and HD-DVD, it seems that reports that Toshiba's HD-A1 is basically just a home theater PC are true. Erstwhile geek-with-blog Lorin Thwaits recently decided to dismantle his HD-A1 to see what makes it tick, and inside he found a 2.5 GHz Pentium 4 CPU, a bunch of PC2700 DDR RAM memory and other off-the-shelf parts - pretty much everything but a mini-Windows XP OS (the machine actually runs Red Hat Linux and boots off an internal flash drive). No wonder it takes a full minute to start up.
No wonder my friend's unit is always freezing up. We tried watching Serenity and it was ridiculous. This is not something that is ready to be sold to consumers. It's going back and he's already stated that he's just going to wait until the PS3 comes out. An XBox 360 with an external HD-DVD drive to go along with the external Space Heater/Power Supply? Nope.
I see plenty of "everyday people" buying HDTVs at Best Buy. People have money to burn these days. I swear I don't see a car under $20,000 in the parking lot. Besides, game consoles aren't really made for kids anymore. Those days are gone. Sure you have a few brats who's parents will shell out that kind of money for an electronic babysitter but for the most part they are aiming for people in their 20s and 30s. Those looking for a traditional game console will probably get the Nintendo Wii.
Forget any hopes of a quick Blu Ray war. They'll be lucky to ensure they don't get overtaken. Count your studio advantage blessings and hope that doesn't evaporate.
I've screamed about the cost advantage of HD-DVD since the beginning...
As a basic Blu-ray playback device, it's within $100 of Toshiba's HD-A1 and it is more functional. 1080p without any tricks, and it's a network attached device so it can receive firmware/software upgrades should any bugs be discovered.
Pimp the HD-A1 all you want at $500, but it's just a NEC HR-1100A powered by a 2.5 GHz P4 with a shiny metal/plastic case.
Both the PS3 and HD-A1 are low-end playback devices, and they are priced accordingly. I don't see why you're making a big deal out of the $100 difference in price tag.
The big deal here is that people looking for a game console have to shell out $600 instead of $400. Those people are getting the shaft, not the Blu-ray camp. How much will the HD-DVD add-on for the XBox 360 be? It'll probably bring the total cost of the combination inline with the PS3's price structure. The only difference is Microsoft was smart and targeted gamers while Sony is seemingly targetting early Blu-ray adopters.
They have both consoles with BD-ROM drives to be clear at $499 and at $599. So, HD playback and video games at $499 as compared to just playback with Toshiba's offering. Your last sentence is hilarious, "value prop for movies,"--yeah all movies from Universal while the rest of the studios side with Blu-ray. Moreover, as far as "movies" themselves go, disc price for HD DVD and Blu-ray are the same. Toshiba's player, $499, and the PS3, $499, are the same. So, what world are you living in?
The world in which people are paying $3+ per gallon.
The world in which $500 for game consoles is almost untenable for many.
The world in which yammering about studio support glazes peoples eyes over.
Marzetta7 you blu ray fans have been wrong on just about everything. Again the media is subsidized by Sony whilst HD-DVD doesn't require subsidy to be affordable.
I'm not a Sony or Blu Ray hater. It's just format that is expensive where it doesn't have to be. That's why I oppose it being the chosen format.
some of you in here talk like you show your houses off on MTV cribs and expect everyone else to as well.
the best technology doesn't always win. being apple faithfuls i think we should have figured that out by now.
not to mention, 1984, all your complaints about the 360 crashing... seems like u forget how crappy the ps2 was, and chances are the ps3 will run into the same damn manufacturing problems.
its the same for every new tech product, they all have issues.
Comments
Originally posted by Telomar
It's possible the second connector is a proprietary connector through which they can offer HDMI. Similar to current consoles where you can buy various cables to fit into one port. Obviously support for HDCP will be there on the graphics card so it is just a case of including or not including the actual connector.
Indeed. People are whining about it being 'crippled' without thinking about upgrades. Of course the low end model can be upgraded to HDMI, to not offer that would be madness. Perhaps Sony realises of the 100 million PS2 owners only 1% has a HDTV, it hasn't become mainstream by any means.
I'm looking forward to pre-ordering my £350 PS3.
Originally posted by Telomar
There are many who'd disagree and think blu-ray is more important to Sony than some console marketshare.
You have to understand how expensive AV hardware is sold, and sold to whom. The affluent doctor who is putting together a home theater isn't going to know the PS3 is a Blu-ray disc player. He isn't going to care. He's going to go to a high end A/V boutique or ask his contractor to put something together for him. Imagine what his reaction will be if they configure his system with the convex PS3, a barebones Blu-ray disc player at best.
If Sony expected the PS3 to be the definitive Blu-ray disc player, they wouldn't be marketing a more expensive standalone unit at the same time for $1000. Sony gains nothing by having the PS3 eat into its sales, so I'm guessing they aren't expecting much overlap here. Gamers are supposed to buy the PS3 and enjoy Blu-ray support as an afterthought. HT aficionados won't buy a PS3 to use primarily to watch Blu-ray based movies.
Originally posted by Blackcat
Indeed. People are whining about it being 'crippled' without thinking about upgrades. Of course the low end model can be upgraded to HDMI, to not offer that would be madness. Perhaps Sony realises of the 100 million PS2 owners only 1% has a HDTV, it hasn't become mainstream by any means.
I'm looking forward to pre-ordering my £350 PS3.
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/705/705887p1.html
IGN is saying that the $600 PS3 doesn't even have dual HDMI support. That means the standard 'display' port won't support HDMI at all. This isn't something that can be 'upgraded' later. Maybe you can add an external WiFi connection to a USB port, and maybe you can add an external USB Flash Card/Memory Stick reader. But how do you add the HDMI out port?
Originally posted by Eugene
You have to understand how expensive AV hardware is sold, and sold to whom. The affluent doctor who is putting together a home theater isn't going to know the PS3 is a Blu-ray disc player. He isn't going to care. He's going to go to a high end A/V boutique or ask his contractor to put something together for him. Imagine what his reaction will be if they configure his system with the convex PS3, a barebones Blu-ray disc player at best.
If Sony expected the PS3 to be the definitive Blu-ray disc player, they wouldn't be marketing a more expensive standalone unit at the same time for $1000. Sony gains nothing by having the PS3 eat into its sales, so I'm guessing they aren't expecting much overlap here. Gamers are supposed to buy the PS3 and enjoy Blu-ray support as an afterthought. HT aficionados won't buy a PS3 to use primarily to watch Blu-ray based movies.
I don't think you quite understand. They aren't bothering to sell to that part of the market as HT aficionados will spend a lot more on a suitable system. The reason there are basically no low cost blu-ray players is because the companies are aware the PS3 exists. What the PS3 gives Sony is rapid marketshare.
The PS3 will get a blu-ray player into a lot of homes quickly at low cost that wouldn't be reached with straight blu-ray players. This is part of the reason blu-ray has such strong industry support, they simply anticipate PS3 will get far greater marketshare for blu-ray than HD-DVD by having it added with every console. The way the market has set it up it's a low cost blu-ray player with a console functionality, no doubt about it. Sony wouldn't have kept Blu-Ray drives in the PS3 if they weren't very serious about the PS3 being used as a media player, it is no after thought for them.
Originally posted by Fran441
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/705/705887p1.html
IGN is saying that the $600 PS3 doesn't even have dual HDMI support. That means the standard 'display' port won't support HDMI at all. This isn't something that can be 'upgraded' later. Maybe you can add an external WiFi connection to a USB port, and maybe you can add an external USB Flash Card/Memory Stick reader. But how do you add the HDMI out port?
I have eMail and telephoned SCEE to get it in words to make sure all this is 100% true, cause if it is I don't think I'll be buying me a PS 3. If there is no HDMI in the 20GB version it's an absolute disgrace!!
Originally posted by Telomar
The PS3 will get a blu-ray player into a lot of homes quickly at low cost that wouldn't be reached with straight blu-ray players.
No, it won't. $600 is out of reach for the typical family who doesn't even own an HD capable television.
This is part of the reason blu-ray has such strong industry support, they simply anticipate PS3 will get far greater marketshare for blu-ray than HD-DVD by having it added with every console. The way the market has set it up it's a low cost blu-ray player with a console functionality, no doubt about it.
The press event sure seemed to pimp it as a gaming console rather than a playback device. Where's the remote? It's clearly an overpriced console with Blu-ray capability. The gamble is on the games...that's why it's being sold at a loss. The potential for initial sales hinges on the gaming community, not the movie watchers.
do you people really think that some 14 year old is gonna be like "mommy get this 600 dollar machine for me, i wanna play games.... oh and look it has blu-ray"
and the mom in this recovering economy that is the U.S is just going to rush right over and buy one. riiight, not even 25 percent of households have HD-TV's and that came from sony's mouth at the conference.
"analyst jupiter predicts by so and so 25 percent of homes will have blu-ray"
wow, 25 percent? and thats not even now!
so whose sony marketing this bad boy to? no way in hell its for kids with middle income parents. maybe older 20somethings still living with mom and dad cuz i'd assume a 20 something renting out a place or paying a mortgage might think twice about a 600 dollar system plus a 60 dollar game...
maybe they are aiming to the upper class? but dont those people have better things to do? like make money?
can we call this system a Big FLOP.
Originally posted by Elixir
all this stupid talk about blu-ray
do you people really think that some 14 year old is gonna be like "mommy get this 600 dollar machine for me, i wanna play games.... oh and look it has blu-ray"
and the mom in this recovering economy that is the U.S is just going to rush right over and buy one. riiight, not even 25 percent of households have HD-TV's and that came from sony's mouth at the conference.
"analyst jupiter predicts by so and so 25 percent of homes will have blu-ray"
wow, 25 percent? and thats not even now!
so whose sony marketing this bad boy to? no way in hell its for kids with middle income parents. maybe older 20somethings still living with mom and dad cuz i'd assume a 20 something renting out a place or paying a mortgage might think twice about a 600 dollar system plus a 60 dollar game...
maybe they are aiming to the upper class? but dont those people have better things to do? like make money?
can we call this system a Big FLOP.
Tell it to the people who shelled out $400 (and/or far more) for an xbox360 and a handful of games. And the 360 doesn't even have a next-gen player.
Let's take a look at it logically, shall we. You have an Xbox 360 at $399. It doesn't even have an HD DVD drive, however you can add one, and it is expected to be no less than $125 although I'm thinking it will be around $150 -$200. Yet even at $125 you are already at $525 for an Xbox 360 that is still less capable as it will most likely only output to 1080i and have less content when it comes to movies. You might as well go for the cheaper $499 Blu-ray PS3 and have 1080i as well as a crap load of movies to play. Quite honestly, I'd just pay an extra $75 and get all the bells and whistles on the $599 PS3 with WiFi, Memory sticks, and HDMI port. So, really, this pricing really makes sense, especially when you consider it has next generation drive built in.
Furthermore, stop all the whining about how $599 is way too much. It amazes me that a whole lot of you probably forked over $599 for a Mac Mini or $399 for an iPod, and somehow $499 or $599 is way to much. We'll I guess then $525 for an Xbox 360 for you Microsoft fanboys is just wretched as well, huh?
do you people really think that some 14 year old is gonna be like "mommy get this 600 dollar machine for me, i wanna play games.... oh and look it has blu-ray"
Umm, yeah, they will and in droves too. I guarantee you all 4 million units before December 31st will be sold out.
can we call this system a Big FLOP.
Sure can't, as it far from it. Don't be mad because your $800 FUD prediction of the PS3's cost didn't come true. 4 million Blu-ray capable units into people's homes compared to HD DVDs thousands will certainly mark the end of the road for HD DVD in terms of marketshare and mindshare. The next wave will be even cheaper Blu-ray standalone players and burners from...well you know all those guys at the BDA...
http://www.blu-raydisc.com/Section-1...s/4/Index.html
Notice that even now it appears NEC will be supporting Blu-ray as well. And Sanyo. Interesting.
Consoles are supposed to be gaming machines first and media centers second. I understand that Sony wants to have the 25 GB of storage space that Blu-Ray disks offer for games, but Nintendo, Microsoft, and other 3rd parties don't seem to be running to Sony because they are running out of storage space for their games.
As I've said before, I'm buying a PS3. I went to preorder one earlier today, in fact, but found no stores that are taking them yet. I will end up buying the $600 model as well, and it definitely does hurt the wallet.
Microsoft offers the $299 Xbox 360 with no Hard Drive (so it cannot play backwards compatible games and you need a memory card to save), and it also does not have some of the other extras of the 360 (HD cables, wired vs. wireless controller, etc.).
But when it comes down to it, people are more likely to buy that $299 'next gen' console when the alternative comes in at $499 or $599. Like I said above, most people don't even have televisions that can take advantage of Blu-Ray or HD-DVD movies, so why buy a console for that feature?
Sony has also once again created a massive shortage of consoles for launch. 2 million for the 'worldwide launch window'. If North America got even half of those units (and I think that's the higher than most estimates), how many of those will be the $499 console and how many will be the $599 console? How many of each will be in black and how many will be in silver? When you consider these options, it's just going to be that much harder to find the console that you want to buy.
Also, Sony continues to pull features from the PS3. Forget dual HDMI out ports now, and apparently dual TV support is gone entirely. I'm hoping we have the final feature list now.
Again, I plan on buying the PS3 and the Wii when they launch and I already have a 360. But for many 360 and PS3 owners, HD video won't even be a consideration, so Microsoft allowing customers to have the choice of whether they want the external HD-DVD drive is looking like the better move for consumers right now. In the end, Sony will probably end up sacrificing console market share for HD Video market share.
a lot of people at this point really dont care for the drive.
how is it as a gaming machine? sony hasn't even shown us that.
what they have shown us is that they couldn't come up with their own ideas. their initial idea for a controller was a flop, so they brought back a tired rehash of the dual shock with stollen features from nintendo.
then they went along and created the market place similiar to microsofts.
i mean they are supposed to be the leaders of the industry? everything they have shown so far doesn't come close to the Killzone trailer of last year.
all their games look like the 360's games.... only at 600 bucks.
As an HD-DVD killer.....not gonna happen. Marzetta7 is doing a bit of backpedaling and appeasement. $800 FUD...I don't remember stating this but I did have my reservations about Blu Ray being cheaper than HD-DVD and it seems that Sony could not replicate the same price structure as HD-DVD.
It's a game console so it's impressive that they got it to $599 with a BD-ROM drive but if getting HD movies is important at the least costly entry level price then right now HD-DVD has once again not dissapointed. It's the value prop for movies and I expect it to remain that way.
Originally posted by Fran441 You assume that everyone *wants* Blu-Ray or HD-DVD when most people don't even have a HDTV.
Consoles are supposed to be gaming machines first and media centers second. I understand that Sony wants to have the 25 GB of storage space that Blu-Ray disks offer for games, but Nintendo, Microsoft, and other 3rd parties don't seem to be running to Sony because they are running out of storage space for their games.
I'm not assuming either. I'm being realistic when I say that the 4 million proposed PS3s will sell out and thereby implant built-in Blu-ray plaback to millions of homes worldwide. Even if "everyone" doesn't want Blu-ray or HD DVD, when those 4 million PS3s sell, they will already have Blu-ray. Get it? And for the majority of those who purchase the PS3, most will not likely go out and buy a standalone Blu-ray player, they'll just stick to their PS3 for movies.
What it appears you assume is that consoles live in a neat compartamentalized black box, supposing to be gaming machines first and media centers second. I know of many who will be purchasing the PS3 for both--Games and Movies--equally or for more preferably a cheaper alternative to other Blu-ray movie players in this early adoption HD market. I think the PS3 is Sony's first step out of the paradigm you and others try to keep it in which is a device strictly for games. I see a lot of good things that will come from this, not to mention Blu-ray format dominance.
As I've said before, I'm buying a PS3. I went to preorder one earlier today, in fact, but found no stores that are taking them yet. I will end up buying the $600 model as well, and it definitely does hurt the wallet.
Microsoft offers the $299 Xbox 360 with no Hard Drive (so it cannot play backwards compatible games and you need a memory card to save), and it also does not have some of the other extras of the 360 (HD cables, wired vs. wireless controller, etc.).
But when it comes down to it, people are more likely to buy that $299 'next gen' console when the alternative comes in at $499 or $599. Like I said above, most people don't even have televisions that can take advantage of Blu-Ray or HD-DVD movies, so why buy a console for that feature?
That's just it though, the $299 or the $399 Xbox 360 models are not 'next gen' without the HD DVD add-on drive which will drive the cost up another $125+. And, by then, you might as well just spend an exrtra $50 to $75 or save $25 to $50--depending on what Xbox model we're talking about and how much the add-on will be--more for the $499 PS3 that has 7 out of the 8 major movie studios providing movies for it.
Moreover, even if you don't have a HDTV, people are going to buy the new console for new content--games and movies. Content will be most assuredly be a factor in the format war, and with more content on the Blu-ray train, HD DVD better step off the tracks as it's coming through.
Sony has also once again created a massive shortage of consoles for launch. 2 million for the 'worldwide launch window'. If North America got even half of those units (and I think that's the higher than most estimates), how many of those will be the $499 console and how many will be the $599 console? How many of each will be in black and how many will be in silver? When you consider these options, it's just going to be that much harder to find the console that you want to buy.
Also, Sony continues to pull features from the PS3. Forget dual HDMI out ports now, and apparently dual TV support is gone entirely. I'm hoping we have the final feature list now.
Again, I plan on buying the PS3 and the Wii when they launch and I already have a 360. But for many 360 and PS3 owners, HD video won't even be a consideration, so Microsoft allowing customers to have the choice of whether they want the external HD-DVD drive is looking like the better move for consumers right now. In the end, Sony will probably end up sacrificing console market share for HD Video market share.
From what I understand this worldwide launch is even bigger than Microsoft's worldwide launch so they ought to be in better shape than Microsoft was at launch assuming there are no major setbacks at launch like Microsoft's chip shortages. I think 4 million consoles before December 31st will be quite good, and regardless if their black or silver, they're going to sell out, no doubt in my mind.
How does one pull features for a device that didn't really have any concrete specs until now? Sounds like you are just trying to find something to complain about.
I totally have to disagree with your last paragraph. I think a lot of Microsoft customers will be miffed when they find out that they have to fork over yet more money for yet another add-on when they thought they were getting the whole enchilada with the $399 model. Not so, and if we look at past add-on drives, sales of such add-ons are not very successful. I believe the Dreamcast or some other gaming console had a DVD add-on drive (someone correct me if I'm wrong about the Dreamcast of if it was some other console), which lets just say didn't light the world on fire and I expect the 360 HD DVD add-on to meet the same fate. Heck, with all the various add-ons, your 360 will probably resemble an octupus.
I think Sony's move to include the Blu-ray drive is a stellar one, and one that will pay off as more content is provided for the format and with HDTVs getting cheaper and cheaper, has the capability now and in the future to sell. Not to mention the fact that home users will want seamlessness with their PCs and/or Macs at home, and again with Blu-ray with the majority of players in the IT realm as well, it's not just a matter of if HD DVD will fail but a matter of when. I say HD DVD will be around a year and will go down as the next DIVX format.
Dude that's koolaid drinking extreme.
The PS3 was the last opportunity to whack HD-DVD and if Sony could have delivered the $599 PS3 for the $499 price they'd be ok. However...they did not.
Say what you want but $600 is $600 and I'd rather have the opportunity to start out with a base $299 unit and accessorize my way up.
Sony says you must pay at least $500 and if you want the goodies shell out another C-Note.
Forget any hopes of a quick Blu Ray war. They'll be lucky to ensure they don't get overtaken. Count your studio advantage blessings and hope that doesn't evaporate.
I've screamed about the cost advantage of HD-DVD since the beginning and everytime it is displayed you guys go into your
blah blah bhal Studio support...blah blah blah CE Vendor support.
It'll be fun to watch those objections get demolished over the next year. Regards.
Originally posted by hmurchison
As a uber Game Console the PS3 look fine albeit expensive to get what you really want.
Vague, and yet the entry PS3 model will have all the capability that the higher end Xbox 360 model with the HD DVD add-on will have like hard drive and HD playback, but yet it will cost $25-$50 less. Remind me how this is expensive in regards to their competition?
As an HD-DVD killer.....not gonna happen. Marzetta7 is doing a bit of backpedaling and appeasement. $800 FUD...I don't remember stating this but I did have my reservations about Blu Ray being cheaper than HD-DVD and it seems that Sony could not replicate the same price structure as HD-DVD.
I'm not sure what gave you this impression. Backpedaling, hardly. I'm downright giddy with the $499 and $599 price points. I never stated that "Hmurchison claimed $800 FUD," but I assure you it was mentioned on this thread in an attempt to spread FUD. By whom? Feel free to scan all the posts in this thread if you feel you have the time.
BTW, "it seems" Sony replicated the same price structure as HD DVD with a $499 price point. They did just that as Toshiba's player (only a player and poor one at that as has been mentioned all over the internet) is $499, so, I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. Not to mention, the PS3 is capable of playing both games and movies (and movies from 7 out of the 8 major studios). You get more bang for your buck going with the PS3 rather than the $499 Toshiba HD DVD standalone player. Consumers will see this, and most assuredly will decide with their wallets.
It's a game console so it's impressive that they got it to $599 with a BD-ROM drive but if getting HD movies is important at the least costly entry level price then right now HD-DVD has once again not dissapointed. It's the value prop for movies and I expect it to remain that way. [/B]
They have both consoles with BD-ROM drives to be clear at $499 and at $599. So, HD playback and video games at $499 as compared to just playback with Toshiba's offering. Your last sentence is hilarious, "value prop for movies,"--yeah all movies from Universal while the rest of the studios side with Blu-ray. Moreover, as far as "movies" themselves go, disc price for HD DVD and Blu-ray are the same. Toshiba's player, $499, and the PS3, $499, are the same. So, what world are you living in?
And well, you know, I'm kind of a big deal.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Dude that's koolaid drinking extreme.
blah blah bhal Studio support...blah blah blah CE Vendor support.
Without those you have nothing. Who's drinking the Kool-Aid now?
By the way, speaking of Microsoft and HD-DVD, it seems that reports that Toshiba's HD-A1 is basically just a home theater PC are true. Erstwhile geek-with-blog Lorin Thwaits recently decided to dismantle his HD-A1 to see what makes it tick, and inside he found a 2.5 GHz Pentium 4 CPU, a bunch of PC2700 DDR RAM memory and other off-the-shelf parts - pretty much everything but a mini-Windows XP OS (the machine actually runs Red Hat Linux and boots off an internal flash drive). No wonder it takes a full minute to start up.
No wonder my friend's unit is always freezing up. We tried watching Serenity and it was ridiculous. This is not something that is ready to be sold to consumers. It's going back and he's already stated that he's just going to wait until the PS3 comes out. An XBox 360 with an external HD-DVD drive to go along with the external Space Heater/Power Supply? Nope.
I see plenty of "everyday people" buying HDTVs at Best Buy. People have money to burn these days. I swear I don't see a car under $20,000 in the parking lot. Besides, game consoles aren't really made for kids anymore. Those days are gone. Sure you have a few brats who's parents will shell out that kind of money for an electronic babysitter but for the most part they are aiming for people in their 20s and 30s. Those looking for a traditional game console will probably get the Nintendo Wii.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Forget any hopes of a quick Blu Ray war. They'll be lucky to ensure they don't get overtaken. Count your studio advantage blessings and hope that doesn't evaporate.
I've screamed about the cost advantage of HD-DVD since the beginning...
As a basic Blu-ray playback device, it's within $100 of Toshiba's HD-A1 and it is more functional. 1080p without any tricks, and it's a network attached device so it can receive firmware/software upgrades should any bugs be discovered.
Pimp the HD-A1 all you want at $500, but it's just a NEC HR-1100A powered by a 2.5 GHz P4 with a shiny metal/plastic case.
Both the PS3 and HD-A1 are low-end playback devices, and they are priced accordingly. I don't see why you're making a big deal out of the $100 difference in price tag.
The big deal here is that people looking for a game console have to shell out $600 instead of $400. Those people are getting the shaft, not the Blu-ray camp. How much will the HD-DVD add-on for the XBox 360 be? It'll probably bring the total cost of the combination inline with the PS3's price structure. The only difference is Microsoft was smart and targeted gamers while Sony is seemingly targetting early Blu-ray adopters.
They have both consoles with BD-ROM drives to be clear at $499 and at $599. So, HD playback and video games at $499 as compared to just playback with Toshiba's offering. Your last sentence is hilarious, "value prop for movies,"--yeah all movies from Universal while the rest of the studios side with Blu-ray. Moreover, as far as "movies" themselves go, disc price for HD DVD and Blu-ray are the same. Toshiba's player, $499, and the PS3, $499, are the same. So, what world are you living in?
The world in which people are paying $3+ per gallon.
The world in which $500 for game consoles is almost untenable for many.
The world in which yammering about studio support glazes peoples eyes over.
Marzetta7 you blu ray fans have been wrong on just about everything. Again the media is subsidized by Sony whilst HD-DVD doesn't require subsidy to be affordable.
I'm not a Sony or Blu Ray hater. It's just format that is expensive where it doesn't have to be. That's why I oppose it being the chosen format.
some of you in here talk like you show your houses off on MTV cribs and expect everyone else to as well.
the best technology doesn't always win. being apple faithfuls i think we should have figured that out by now.
not to mention, 1984, all your complaints about the 360 crashing... seems like u forget how crappy the ps2 was, and chances are the ps3 will run into the same damn manufacturing problems.
its the same for every new tech product, they all have issues.
come on now.