who cares how many units are out there because of the ps3? what if those people dont have HD's? (most dont), so what are the odds they even purchase blurays?
A lot of people should care. Not only does it determine how much potential it is for BR adoption(for sellers).
It also indecates how fast the price will drop on all things related to PS3.
If PS3 sells 6 million by march, you can bet that BR-D RW will drop about 50% and media drop about 30%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elixir
film companies aren't going to care how many blurary players are out there if no one is buying bluray disks...if hd-dvd movies are selling then thats where the studios are going to lean towardsd.
Actually Record industry cares too. As Concerts Music videos and other things are related to video. Also the adoption of digital equipment so they can resell music in 5.1 sound if the market is up.
Also since PS3 is a online media hub, there is potential for promotion and money, like iTunes.
Finally Synergy such as people who Buy PS3 will consider buying HDTVs, and people who Brought HDTV will consider buying PS3. And then some of those will consider buying surround sound systems, and some of those will consider buying broadband, and some of those will consider [...].
Money gets thrown around whenever an exciting product comes around. Just like how the ipod grew it's tree.
another how to instructions to use xbox-360 HD-DVD add on as HD-DVD player on your PC. What's even more interesting is that MacOS correctly recognize xbox HD-DVD add on drive by default and is operational with SD DVD playback, however, no HD-DVD playback due to lack of software.
Well...I hope MS is selling the HD-DVD drive for a decent profit.
Tempting to get one and see if I can't find a player for the Mac or in the worst case bootcamp to Windows...30" ACD on my desk should look pretty decent...
Well...I hope MS is selling the HD-DVD drive for a decent profit.
Tempting to get one and see if I can't find a player for the Mac or in the worst case bootcamp to Windows...30" ACD on my desk should look pretty decent...
Vinea
Unlikely. $200 is a bare minium even without the HW decoder chip.
after shipping and sw development, support and what not, it's probaby a lost.
If people keep buying it though, they would make a profit. Maybe in half a year.
Unlikely. $200 is a bare minium even without the HW decoder chip.
Above statement is called FUD....... or just an ignorance?.... Eitherway, anyone to set up a HTPC with either BD or HD-DVD or both would require a decent CPU (dualcore) or at least AMD64 with HDCP compliant GPU, which is now available around $200.
A simple solution for this stupid format war is getting a home made universal player in the means of HTPC. I'm sure these Hi-Def optical drives will be priced much lower in the near future or we may even get a universal optical drive at around $50.
Um...are you responding to the same comment I'm reading? I dunno what a bare transport costs but $200 could be either about right or a bit subsidized...and there ain't much in there besides some USB stuff, power and a HD-DVD drive...
Given kuku's comments I'm inclined to believe "a bit subsidized" for the moment. Too bad they're likely in short supply at the moment...
hm.... how can it be subsidized?.... usb/firwire external casing could be bought for $20 to $40 as a street price and HD-DVD drive rom is just optical DVD rom with extra blue laser..... The drive itself doesn't decode anything....it's just a reader. Anyway, even if the blue laser maybe be in short suppy, once third party bare HD-DVD rom drive hits the market, it will be about $100 at launch. So, even when charging the unit at the street price only cost $120 to $140, which means someone's making money on xbox360 HD-DVD add on. Hence, the free remote and free King Kong HD-DVD movie?....
hm.... how can it be subsidized?.... usb/firwire external casing could be bought for $20 to $40 as a street price and HD-DVD drive rom is just optical DVD rom with extra blue laser..... The drive itself doesn't decode anything....it's just a reader. Anyway, even if the blue laser maybe be in short suppy, once third party bare HD-DVD rom drive hits the market, it will be about $100 at launch. So, even when charging the unit at the street price only cost $120 to $140, which means someone's making money on xbox360 HD-DVD add on. Hence, the free remote and free King Kong HD-DVD movie?....
You really don't know much about HD optical players do you? Or even what a dvd drive composes of.
hm.... how can it be subsidized?.... usb/firwire external casing could be bought for $20 to $40 as a street price and HD-DVD drive rom is just optical DVD rom with extra blue laser..... The drive itself doesn't decode anything....it's just a reader. Anyway, even if the blue laser maybe be in short suppy, once third party bare HD-DVD rom drive hits the market, it will be about $100 at launch. So, even when charging the unit at the street price only cost $120 to $140, which means someone's making money on xbox360 HD-DVD add on. Hence, the free remote and free King Kong HD-DVD movie?....
You really don't know much about optical players do you? And probably not much of how manufacturing work as well.
hm.... how can it be subsidized?.... usb/firwire external casing could be bought for $20 to $40 as a street price and HD-DVD drive rom is just optical DVD rom with extra blue laser..... The drive itself doesn't decode anything....it's just a reader. Anyway, even if the blue laser maybe be in short suppy, once third party bare HD-DVD rom drive hits the market, it will be about $100 at launch. So, even when charging the unit at the street price only cost $120 to $140, which means someone's making money on xbox360 HD-DVD add on. Hence, the free remote and free King Kong HD-DVD movie?....
The diode and lens assembly alone is likely setting Microsoft back $200 given how difficult they are to manufacture. I don't expect they are making a huge loss but I do expect they are taking one. That said Microsoft has a strategy recently to sell at cost or loss to then make money back off content.
The diode and lens assembly alone is likely setting Microsoft back $200 given how difficult they are to manufacture. I don't expect they are making a huge loss but I do expect they are taking one. That said Microsoft has a strategy recently to sell at cost or loss to then make money back off content.
I thought the difficulty of manufacturing is due to patent disputes, but not due to manufacturing capabilities. I know few companies are developing their own blue laser, and once it's done it's matter of printing...... and obviously, toshiba has resources of it.
HD DVD drives share the lens assembly with red and blue diodes. This is why they can be made more affordably. However I believe Microsoft is in fact subsidizing the player. My guess is profitable retail would place the drive at $299 sans remote and movie.
I thought the difficulty of manufacturing is due to patent disputes, but not due to manufacturing capabilities. I know few companies are developing their own blue laser, and once it's done it's matter of printing...... and obviously, toshiba has resources of it.
Toshiba just doesn't have much demand. The blue laser diodes themselves are quite prone to cracking. Essentially blue diodes consist of Gallium Nitride and Indium Nitride on a sapphire (aluminium oxide) substrate with some level of silicon doping. The problem is the material differences between GaN, Si, InN and the substrate cause strains to form within the manufacturing process, which is vapour deposition if you are wondering, that mean on final production the diode has cracks. Cracking is acceptable for some applications but lasers require a higher core strength and cracks also reduce light emission by the diode, it simply doesn't get bright enough or it overheats and basically cooks itself. InN is also pretty poorly understood right now so you can't always generate consistent results.
The process to do all of this is reasonably costly as they require high quality materials right now and high failure rates don't help matters but for the moment that one component is quite costly. It's one of those common engineering materials issues. Now that people are interested in blue lasers research will go up and it'll be fixed pretty fast with the current processes giving way to less costly ones. Still I don't think that can happen fast enough for some.
That's a good point. Toshiba has needed fewer than 100,000 blue diodes so far, based on player sales. Sony, on the other hand, has been straining to have 500,000 for the PS3's launch, plus whatever the Blu-ray players on the market are taking up, maybe another 10-20,000. So obviously, constrained diode supplies will hit Sony much harder.
That's a good point. Toshiba has needed fewer than 100,000 blue diodes so far, based on player sales. Sony, on the other hand, has been straining to have 500,000 for the PS3's launch, plus whatever the Blu-ray players on the market are taking up, maybe another 10-20,000. So obviously, constrained diode supplies will hit Sony much harder.
Actually, first gen toshiba HD-DVD players used NEC which also makes drives for BD and HD. The second generation toshiba HD-DVD players and xbox 360 HD-DVD add on now uses toshiba drives and should exceed 100k units easily just by xbox 360 add on alone. Either way, I don't think the cost on the HD-DVD rom drive will exceed $100 and M$ subsidizing just doesn't add up. (I'm not an engineer nor a material scientist, so whatever I'm saying is just from my own common sense) All in all, $200 is a great price for a HD-DVD player whether in the means of xbox360 or HTPC solution at the moment. Also, the promotional free King Kong and Remote plus the CC coupons just makes even a greater deal for $159, if you can find one.
Bluray will be in 100 million living rooms over the next decade through PS3 alone.
I'd bet the farm on it beating HD-DVD hands down unless dual format players become common place.
i love how people talk straight out of their a55es. how the hell do you know that? just because the ps2 recently hit that number after a decade of being on the market? huh?
sony's ps2 didn't have the competition it has now, sony had pretty much ALL the exlusives titles, they have basically NONE now.
sony's two major markets were japan and europe- japan's gaming segments have been on a steady decline, and sony just pooped on europe
so where do you get these crazy figures from? the past isn't exactly the greatest indicator of the future.
Comments
who cares how many units are out there because of the ps3? what if those people dont have HD's? (most dont), so what are the odds they even purchase blurays?
A lot of people should care. Not only does it determine how much potential it is for BR adoption(for sellers).
It also indecates how fast the price will drop on all things related to PS3.
If PS3 sells 6 million by march, you can bet that BR-D RW will drop about 50% and media drop about 30%
film companies aren't going to care how many blurary players are out there if no one is buying bluray disks...if hd-dvd movies are selling then thats where the studios are going to lean towardsd.
Actually Record industry cares too. As Concerts Music videos and other things are related to video. Also the adoption of digital equipment so they can resell music in 5.1 sound if the market is up.
Also since PS3 is a online media hub, there is potential for promotion and money, like iTunes.
Finally Synergy such as people who Buy PS3 will consider buying HDTVs, and people who Brought HDTV will consider buying PS3. And then some of those will consider buying surround sound systems, and some of those will consider buying broadband, and some of those will consider [...].
Money gets thrown around whenever an exciting product comes around. Just like how the ipod grew it's tree.
http://uneasysilence.com/archive/2006/11/8303/
Tempting to get one and see if I can't find a player for the Mac or in the worst case bootcamp to Windows...30" ACD on my desk should look pretty decent...
Vinea
Well...I hope MS is selling the HD-DVD drive for a decent profit.
Tempting to get one and see if I can't find a player for the Mac or in the worst case bootcamp to Windows...30" ACD on my desk should look pretty decent...
Vinea
Unlikely. $200 is a bare minium even without the HW decoder chip.
after shipping and sw development, support and what not, it's probaby a lost.
If people keep buying it though, they would make a profit. Maybe in half a year.
Optical components traditionally drops very fast.
Unlikely. $200 is a bare minium even without the HW decoder chip.
Above statement is called FUD....... or just an ignorance?.... Eitherway, anyone to set up a HTPC with either BD or HD-DVD or both would require a decent CPU (dualcore) or at least AMD64 with HDCP compliant GPU, which is now available around $200.
A simple solution for this stupid format war is getting a home made universal player in the means of HTPC. I'm sure these Hi-Def optical drives will be priced much lower in the near future or we may even get a universal optical drive at around $50.
Given kuku's comments I'm inclined to believe "a bit subsidized" for the moment. Too bad they're likely in short supply at the moment...
Vinea
hm.... how can it be subsidized?.... usb/firwire external casing could be bought for $20 to $40 as a street price and HD-DVD drive rom is just optical DVD rom with extra blue laser..... The drive itself doesn't decode anything....it's just a reader. Anyway, even if the blue laser maybe be in short suppy, once third party bare HD-DVD rom drive hits the market, it will be about $100 at launch. So, even when charging the unit at the street price only cost $120 to $140, which means someone's making money on xbox360 HD-DVD add on. Hence, the free remote and free King Kong HD-DVD movie?....
You really don't know much about HD optical players do you? Or even what a dvd drive composes of.
hm.... how can it be subsidized?.... usb/firwire external casing could be bought for $20 to $40 as a street price and HD-DVD drive rom is just optical DVD rom with extra blue laser..... The drive itself doesn't decode anything....it's just a reader. Anyway, even if the blue laser maybe be in short suppy, once third party bare HD-DVD rom drive hits the market, it will be about $100 at launch. So, even when charging the unit at the street price only cost $120 to $140, which means someone's making money on xbox360 HD-DVD add on. Hence, the free remote and free King Kong HD-DVD movie?....
You really don't know much about optical players do you? And probably not much of how manufacturing work as well.
hm.... how can it be subsidized?.... usb/firwire external casing could be bought for $20 to $40 as a street price and HD-DVD drive rom is just optical DVD rom with extra blue laser..... The drive itself doesn't decode anything....it's just a reader. Anyway, even if the blue laser maybe be in short suppy, once third party bare HD-DVD rom drive hits the market, it will be about $100 at launch. So, even when charging the unit at the street price only cost $120 to $140, which means someone's making money on xbox360 HD-DVD add on. Hence, the free remote and free King Kong HD-DVD movie?....
The diode and lens assembly alone is likely setting Microsoft back $200 given how difficult they are to manufacture. I don't expect they are making a huge loss but I do expect they are taking one. That said Microsoft has a strategy recently to sell at cost or loss to then make money back off content.
The diode and lens assembly alone is likely setting Microsoft back $200 given how difficult they are to manufacture. I don't expect they are making a huge loss but I do expect they are taking one. That said Microsoft has a strategy recently to sell at cost or loss to then make money back off content.
I thought the difficulty of manufacturing is due to patent disputes, but not due to manufacturing capabilities. I know few companies are developing their own blue laser, and once it's done it's matter of printing...... and obviously, toshiba has resources of it.
I thought the difficulty of manufacturing is due to patent disputes, but not due to manufacturing capabilities. I know few companies are developing their own blue laser, and once it's done it's matter of printing...... and obviously, toshiba has resources of it.
Toshiba just doesn't have much demand. The blue laser diodes themselves are quite prone to cracking. Essentially blue diodes consist of Gallium Nitride and Indium Nitride on a sapphire (aluminium oxide) substrate with some level of silicon doping. The problem is the material differences between GaN, Si, InN and the substrate cause strains to form within the manufacturing process, which is vapour deposition if you are wondering, that mean on final production the diode has cracks. Cracking is acceptable for some applications but lasers require a higher core strength and cracks also reduce light emission by the diode, it simply doesn't get bright enough or it overheats and basically cooks itself. InN is also pretty poorly understood right now so you can't always generate consistent results.
The process to do all of this is reasonably costly as they require high quality materials right now and high failure rates don't help matters but for the moment that one component is quite costly. It's one of those common engineering materials issues. Now that people are interested in blue lasers research will go up and it'll be fixed pretty fast with the current processes giving way to less costly ones. Still I don't think that can happen fast enough for some.
Toshiba just doesn't have much demand.
That's a good point. Toshiba has needed fewer than 100,000 blue diodes so far, based on player sales. Sony, on the other hand, has been straining to have 500,000 for the PS3's launch, plus whatever the Blu-ray players on the market are taking up, maybe another 10-20,000. So obviously, constrained diode supplies will hit Sony much harder.
That's a good point. Toshiba has needed fewer than 100,000 blue diodes so far, based on player sales. Sony, on the other hand, has been straining to have 500,000 for the PS3's launch, plus whatever the Blu-ray players on the market are taking up, maybe another 10-20,000. So obviously, constrained diode supplies will hit Sony much harder.
Actually, first gen toshiba HD-DVD players used NEC which also makes drives for BD and HD. The second generation toshiba HD-DVD players and xbox 360 HD-DVD add on now uses toshiba drives and should exceed 100k units easily just by xbox 360 add on alone. Either way, I don't think the cost on the HD-DVD rom drive will exceed $100 and M$ subsidizing just doesn't add up. (I'm not an engineer nor a material scientist, so whatever I'm saying is just from my own common sense) All in all, $200 is a great price for a HD-DVD player whether in the means of xbox360 or HTPC solution at the moment. Also, the promotional free King Kong and Remote plus the CC coupons just makes even a greater deal for $159, if you can find one.
PS3s. I went to my local Gamestop to check the status of my pre-order.
I asked the manager about my pre-order. He said their is a chance that Sony will not give
them their full amount of PS3's. I'm 9th on the preorders out of 16. He said that I would
get a call in the next 48 hours if I can get one at launch. He said if I can't get one at
launch, I'd have to wait 2 to 3 weeks to get my pre-order filled.
He also mentioned that I could get a PS3 if I wanted to change my pre-order to the
low-end model instead.
I'd bet the farm on it beating HD-DVD hands down unless dual format players become common place.
Bluray will be in 100 million living rooms over the next decade through PS3 alone.
I'd bet the farm on it beating HD-DVD hands down unless dual format players become common place.
i love how people talk straight out of their a55es. how the hell do you know that? just because the ps2 recently hit that number after a decade of being on the market? huh?
sony's ps2 didn't have the competition it has now, sony had pretty much ALL the exlusives titles, they have basically NONE now.
sony's two major markets were japan and europe- japan's gaming segments have been on a steady decline, and sony just pooped on europe
so where do you get these crazy figures from? the past isn't exactly the greatest indicator of the future.
I read a story on Joystiq.com that said that Gamestop will not get their full allotment of
PS3s. I went to my local Gamestop to check the status of my pre-order.
I asked the manager about my pre-order. He said their is a chance that Sony will not give
them their full amount of PS3's. I'm 9th on the preorders out of 16. He said that I would
get a call in the next 48 hours if I can get one at launch. He said if I can't get one at
launch, I'd have to wait 2 to 3 weeks to get my pre-order filled.
He also mentioned that I could get a PS3 if I wanted to change my pre-order to the
low-end model instead.
I just got a call from the Gamestop manager informing me that Sony cut their order down
to EIGHT systems. I'm F%@K#*G 9th on the list! He said if one of the eight don't have the
money or don't show up within 24 hours, then I could get one on Sunday. He also
mentioned that there will be a second shipment to fill the rest of the preorders & he gives
it 90% odds that it will be before Christmas.