So now the official Blu-ray launch has happened eh? Sheesh what took you so long? Toshiba's second generation players are coming in 3 weeks. BD-Live (networked content) wont be available until June 2007. I'm sticking with HD DVD for the time being.
I'm sticking with HD-DVD as well...... but I'm still trying to get the PS3 for BD-DVD exclusive titles which is very few that I want to get..... but by the time I get to own one, I might not need it since Disney/Pixar may go neutral in the first half of 07. What are my chances of picking up PS3 before 1st half of next year? Only 250K units at launch, and not sure whether Sony can manufacture over even 500k units in the states by the year end.
BTW, most of the first batch PS3's went to extreme gamers or ebayers.... 20k units on ebay on the launch day does say something.... and the percentage of initially delivered units being used as BD-DVD player is very remote. Which does reflect very poorly on the initial expectation of PS3 being the catalyst to move niche BD-DVD market.
in case you didnt realise Europe hasnt gotten the PS3 yet, so its stil FUTURE HARDWARE here at least.
This has already been addressed, but I agree its ok in future hardware for others reasons... because PS3/xBox are closely related to the future hardware of HD-DVD / Blu-Ray (I know there are players etc now so thats not future, but this thread is also about the prospects of the DVD market.
Hi, This post is very informative, however I would like some specific information. If someone can help me then please send me a private message. Best Regards,
For the cost of a 100GB bluray disk, I could potentially just buy a 250GB hard drive, load it up a lot faster, and then store that offsite. Plus, don't hard drives last longer than optical media?
Hard drives aren't that convenient for off-site storage in a safety deposit box. Otherwise I'd agree with you.
Hard drives aren't that convenient for off-site storage in a safety deposit box. Otherwise I'd agree with you.
Why not? Buy an external firewire case for $40. Then you just pop in the 3.5" Hard drive, back up, take it out, and store the naked drive in a safe/safety deposit box/burried under ground in a garbage bag. You can reuse the external case for multiple offsite backups (just swap in and out a drive), and to reload the files quickly. The other advantage is that you can carry the case around with you, and just plug it in anywhere.
Overall still less expensive than optical blu-ray or HD-DVD, and faster.
Overall still less expensive than optical blu-ray or HD-DVD.
For now. Remember that it wasn't that many years ago when people had to pay $50 for a recordable DVD or even $20 for a recordable CD. CD-Rs got cheap and most people didn't think DVD-Rs would approach their price. Then Apple came out with the Superdrive and DVD-R blanks that were "only" $10, a huge bargain at the time. Now name brand DVD-R blanks are only 20¢ apiece, twice the price of CD-Rs for 6x the capacity. The only dumb thing is dual-layer discs still being ridiculously expensive (relative to single layer). Blu-ray blanks will come down in price. You can bank on that. Give it two to three years and I think the 50GB blanks will be $10, if not below $5. The former price would be competitive with the 400GB/$100 best price you can find for hard drives today. The latter could go toe to toe with expected hard drive prices in three years. And if it approaches DVD-R prices (say less than $1/disc), your argument is toast.
For now. Remember that it wasn't that many years ago when people had to pay $50 for a recordable DVD or even $20 for a recordable CD. CD-Rs got cheap and most people didn't think DVD-Rs would approach their price. Then Apple came out with the Superdrive and DVD-R blanks that were "only" $10, a huge bargain at the time. Now name brand DVD-R blanks are only 20¢ apiece, twice the price of CD-Rs for 6x the capacity. The only dumb thing is dual-layer discs still being ridiculously expensive (relative to single layer). Blu-ray blanks will come down in price. You can bank on that. Give it two to three years and I think the 50GB blanks will be $10, if not below $5. The former price would be competitive with the 400GB/$100 best price you can find for hard drives today. The latter could go toe to toe with expected hard drive prices in three years. And if it approaches DVD-R prices (say less than $1/disc), your argument is toast.
Lots of ifs there
I just don't see, for anyone other than the lowly consumer, using optical media like this for backups. Thumb drives keep getting larger, and hard drives keep getting cheaper. Corporations, and even prosumers, will be using tape/hard drives (of all sizes, 1.8", 2.5", 3.5"), do to the speed and cost compared with Blu-Ray. By the time that Blu-Ray media gets down there in price (assuming it doesn't stay artificially inflated like DVD+-DL), hard drive sizes will be huge, so measly 250GB drives will be dirt cheap. and that 250GB drive holds 5 dual layer Blu-Ray disks.
Both of us are doing some guess work, and trying to predict the future. It will be interesting to see how it turns out.
gears of war spins 1 million copies. fastest selling xbox 360 game (beat out oblivion), beat out halo 2 as the most played xbox live game (for both xbox and the 360)
I just don't see, for anyone other than the lowly consumer, using optical media like this for backups. Thumb drives keep getting larger, and hard drives keep getting cheaper. Corporations, and even prosumers, will be using tape/hard drives (of all sizes, 1.8", 2.5", 3.5"), do to the speed and cost compared with Blu-Ray. By the time that Blu-Ray media gets down there in price (assuming it doesn't stay artificially inflated like DVD+-DL), hard drive sizes will be huge, so measly 250GB drives will be dirt cheap. and that 250GB drive holds 5 dual layer Blu-Ray disks.
Not a lot of ifs. Blu-ray discs will come down in price, no doubt about it whatsoever. The only question is whether it'll be sub-$5 or sub-$10 in two years. Either way, it easily beats thumb drives. They may be getting larger, but 4GB drives are still almost $100, a far cry from a 20¢ DVD-R. I doubt they'll challenge optical media anytime soon. Tape drives are good for corporations, not good for anyone else, since they're sequential access. Will 250GB HDs get as cheap as you think? I don't believe so. If you look at the market, the lowest capacity drives always have the worst capacity/performance ratios. 80GB drives still cost 60-80% of a 250GB. There will always be a floor to what these drives cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elixir
gears of war spins 1 million copies. fastest selling xbox 360 game (beat out oblivion), beat out halo 2 as the most played xbox live game (for both xbox and the 360)
And this relates to the HD battle how? Does it come on HD-DVD? You are so mired in your Microsoft mania that you forget this thread is about Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD.
And this relates to the HD battle how? Does it come on HD-DVD? You are so mired in your Microsoft mania that you forget this thread is about Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD.
You are obviously not paying enough attention in this thread. The relevance of gaming systems has already been discussed in this forum, and I think it is safe to say that the PS3 and xBox 360 are very relevant in terms of Blu Ray and HD-DVD. Blu Ray is used by the PS3 built in, and HD-DVD is used by the xBox as an add-on, and potentially (although this is just speculation) the standard option). When the original PS2 came out onto the market, it had a lot to do with promoting the use of DVDs. Many people actually watched DVDs through their PS2. The PS3 and xBox should prove to be very influential to the success of either Blu Ray or HD-DVD
I'd like to also mention that it is really lame to create arguments like yours: that people are just saying what they are saying because they are excited about the product (as you did above).
Someone did this to me, and they were entirely wrong... see here:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac
aren't ya little short?.... Obviously, you just heard about BD vs. HD-DVD, haven't ya?... I know you're excited about PS3 launch, but do little more research prior to sharing you views. Many things have changed since April of 2006 and your views are outdated.
What are you talking about? I have NEVER owned a gaming gaming console in my life and I don't plan on doing so any time soon.
I don't think you should make blanket statements about things you don't know about. My views are not outdated, because I believe them now, and I base my beliefs in current information. Obviously from my original post you can infer that I think that Sony's use of Blu Ray in it's very popular gaming gaming console, in addition to it's superior performance, features, capacity, and industry/movie studio support, will lead to it's dominance. The HD-DVD players do have one current advantage I will admit: price. Which could be a big factor if Sony arrogantly keeps its price's unnecessarily inflated.
And this relates to the HD battle how? Does it come on HD-DVD? You are so mired in your Microsoft mania that you forget this thread is about Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD.
First, I don't buy that "a lot" of people watched DVDs via their PS2 other than teenagers and college kids. Second, I don't buy that the PS2 was primarily responsible for the explosion of the DVD market.
Are there any factual statstics to prove that gaming systems are responsible for the mass adoption of the DVD format?
First, I don't buy that "a lot" of people watched DVDs via their PS2 other than teenagers and college kids. Second, I don't buy that the PS2 was primarily responsible for the explosion of the DVD market.
Are there any factual statstics to prove that gaming systems are responsible for the mass adoption of the DVD format?
The PS2 most people's first DVD player, and they did end up buying DVD's to play in it. The DVD had the whole industry behind it after IBM president Lou Gerstner got the opposing companies (supporting SD vs. MMCD) to agree upon a standard - DVD. And this is why when people got their PS2 for the first time, they started buying DVDs, because there was no disagreement in most peoples minds that it was the future of movie medias.
I think the PS2's influence on DVD buying is mucho overhyped
Sony has been very involved with the definition of many formats throughout the years, and the PS2 was just the consumer end of trying to get the DVD format to fly.
First, I don't buy that "a lot" of people watched DVDs via their PS2 other than teenagers and college kids. Second, I don't buy that the PS2 was primarily responsible for the explosion of the DVD market.
Are there any factual statstics to prove that gaming systems are responsible for the mass adoption of the DVD format?
When the PS2 came out, DVD players were about $400+. These DVD players were pretty crappy—my PS2 was much much better than my dad's $600 player (although his had a nifty, if useless, magnification feature).
DVD sales skyrocketed immediately after the PS2, literally overnight.
The DVD would've happened anyway, but it's well established that the PS2 made it happen way before it would have otherwise.
I don't see any data or evidence to support this. What I suspect happened was the two technologies enjoyed a great wave simultaneously and they both happened to share the same emerging technology.
People simply wanted an answer to VHS that was something more convenient than LaserDisc. And DVD happened to be that answer. It was a form factor people instantly recognized.
The irony, I think, is that most people commented on DVDs amazing sound quality more than they commented on picture quality.
At any rate. I find it very doubtful that the PS3 will be *the* technology that pushes BluRay over the top. Not when HD-DVD has the brand-name and marketing advantage.
Comments
So now the official Blu-ray launch has happened eh? Sheesh what took you so long? Toshiba's second generation players are coming in 3 weeks. BD-Live (networked content) wont be available until June 2007. I'm sticking with HD DVD for the time being.
I'm sticking with HD-DVD as well...... but I'm still trying to get the PS3 for BD-DVD exclusive titles which is very few that I want to get..... but by the time I get to own one, I might not need it since Disney/Pixar may go neutral in the first half of 07. What are my chances of picking up PS3 before 1st half of next year? Only 250K units at launch, and not sure whether Sony can manufacture over even 500k units in the states by the year end.
BTW, most of the first batch PS3's went to extreme gamers or ebayers.... 20k units on ebay on the launch day does say something.... and the percentage of initially delivered units being used as BD-DVD player is very remote. Which does reflect very poorly on the initial expectation of PS3 being the catalyst to move niche BD-DVD market.
in case you didnt realise Europe hasnt gotten the PS3 yet, so its stil FUTURE HARDWARE here at least.
This has already been addressed, but I agree its ok in future hardware for others reasons... because PS3/xBox are closely related to the future hardware of HD-DVD / Blu-Ray (I know there are players etc now so thats not future, but this thread is also about the prospects of the DVD market.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/20/ar...=1&oref=slogin
EDIT: who was i arguing with in regards to the ps3's load times? was it Tel? i tried one out at the store, HORRID! go try it yourself.
BTW, most of the first batch PS3's went to extreme gamers or ebayers....
Don't forget thieves and murderers.
For the cost of a 100GB bluray disk, I could potentially just buy a 250GB hard drive, load it up a lot faster, and then store that offsite. Plus, don't hard drives last longer than optical media?
Hard drives aren't that convenient for off-site storage in a safety deposit box. Otherwise I'd agree with you.
Hard drives aren't that convenient for off-site storage in a safety deposit box. Otherwise I'd agree with you.
Why not? Buy an external firewire case for $40. Then you just pop in the 3.5" Hard drive, back up, take it out, and store the naked drive in a safe/safety deposit box/burried under ground in a garbage bag. You can reuse the external case for multiple offsite backups (just swap in and out a drive), and to reload the files quickly. The other advantage is that you can carry the case around with you, and just plug it in anywhere.
Overall still less expensive than optical blu-ray or HD-DVD, and faster.
Overall still less expensive than optical blu-ray or HD-DVD.
For now. Remember that it wasn't that many years ago when people had to pay $50 for a recordable DVD or even $20 for a recordable CD. CD-Rs got cheap and most people didn't think DVD-Rs would approach their price. Then Apple came out with the Superdrive and DVD-R blanks that were "only" $10, a huge bargain at the time. Now name brand DVD-R blanks are only 20¢ apiece, twice the price of CD-Rs for 6x the capacity. The only dumb thing is dual-layer discs still being ridiculously expensive (relative to single layer). Blu-ray blanks will come down in price. You can bank on that. Give it two to three years and I think the 50GB blanks will be $10, if not below $5. The former price would be competitive with the 400GB/$100 best price you can find for hard drives today. The latter could go toe to toe with expected hard drive prices in three years. And if it approaches DVD-R prices (say less than $1/disc), your argument is toast.
For now. Remember that it wasn't that many years ago when people had to pay $50 for a recordable DVD or even $20 for a recordable CD. CD-Rs got cheap and most people didn't think DVD-Rs would approach their price. Then Apple came out with the Superdrive and DVD-R blanks that were "only" $10, a huge bargain at the time. Now name brand DVD-R blanks are only 20¢ apiece, twice the price of CD-Rs for 6x the capacity. The only dumb thing is dual-layer discs still being ridiculously expensive (relative to single layer). Blu-ray blanks will come down in price. You can bank on that. Give it two to three years and I think the 50GB blanks will be $10, if not below $5. The former price would be competitive with the 400GB/$100 best price you can find for hard drives today. The latter could go toe to toe with expected hard drive prices in three years. And if it approaches DVD-R prices (say less than $1/disc), your argument is toast.
Lots of ifs there
I just don't see, for anyone other than the lowly consumer, using optical media like this for backups. Thumb drives keep getting larger, and hard drives keep getting cheaper. Corporations, and even prosumers, will be using tape/hard drives (of all sizes, 1.8", 2.5", 3.5"), do to the speed and cost compared with Blu-Ray. By the time that Blu-Ray media gets down there in price (assuming it doesn't stay artificially inflated like DVD+-DL), hard drive sizes will be huge, so measly 250GB drives will be dirt cheap. and that 250GB drive holds 5 dual layer Blu-Ray disks.
Both of us are doing some guess work, and trying to predict the future. It will be interesting to see how it turns out.
increased gold memberships for xbl by 50%
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6162230.html
Lots of ifs there
I just don't see, for anyone other than the lowly consumer, using optical media like this for backups. Thumb drives keep getting larger, and hard drives keep getting cheaper. Corporations, and even prosumers, will be using tape/hard drives (of all sizes, 1.8", 2.5", 3.5"), do to the speed and cost compared with Blu-Ray. By the time that Blu-Ray media gets down there in price (assuming it doesn't stay artificially inflated like DVD+-DL), hard drive sizes will be huge, so measly 250GB drives will be dirt cheap. and that 250GB drive holds 5 dual layer Blu-Ray disks.
Not a lot of ifs. Blu-ray discs will come down in price, no doubt about it whatsoever. The only question is whether it'll be sub-$5 or sub-$10 in two years. Either way, it easily beats thumb drives. They may be getting larger, but 4GB drives are still almost $100, a far cry from a 20¢ DVD-R. I doubt they'll challenge optical media anytime soon. Tape drives are good for corporations, not good for anyone else, since they're sequential access. Will 250GB HDs get as cheap as you think? I don't believe so. If you look at the market, the lowest capacity drives always have the worst capacity/performance ratios. 80GB drives still cost 60-80% of a 250GB. There will always be a floor to what these drives cost.
gears of war spins 1 million copies. fastest selling xbox 360 game (beat out oblivion), beat out halo 2 as the most played xbox live game (for both xbox and the 360)
increased gold memberships for xbl by 50%
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6162230.html
And this relates to the HD battle how? Does it come on HD-DVD? You are so mired in your Microsoft mania that you forget this thread is about Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD.
And this relates to the HD battle how? Does it come on HD-DVD? You are so mired in your Microsoft mania that you forget this thread is about Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD.
You are obviously not paying enough attention in this thread. The relevance of gaming systems has already been discussed in this forum, and I think it is safe to say that the PS3 and xBox 360 are very relevant in terms of Blu Ray and HD-DVD. Blu Ray is used by the PS3 built in, and HD-DVD is used by the xBox as an add-on, and potentially (although this is just speculation) the standard option). When the original PS2 came out onto the market, it had a lot to do with promoting the use of DVDs. Many people actually watched DVDs through their PS2. The PS3 and xBox should prove to be very influential to the success of either Blu Ray or HD-DVD
I'd like to also mention that it is really lame to create arguments like yours: that people are just saying what they are saying because they are excited about the product (as you did above).
Someone did this to me, and they were entirely wrong... see here:
aren't ya little short?.... Obviously, you just heard about BD vs. HD-DVD, haven't ya?... I know you're excited about PS3 launch, but do little more research prior to sharing you views. Many things have changed since April of 2006 and your views are outdated.
What are you talking about? I have NEVER owned a gaming gaming console in my life and I don't plan on doing so any time soon.
I don't think you should make blanket statements about things you don't know about. My views are not outdated, because I believe them now, and I base my beliefs in current information. Obviously from my original post you can infer that I think that Sony's use of Blu Ray in it's very popular gaming gaming console, in addition to it's superior performance, features, capacity, and industry/movie studio support, will lead to it's dominance. The HD-DVD players do have one current advantage I will admit: price. Which could be a big factor if Sony arrogantly keeps its price's unnecessarily inflated.
And this relates to the HD battle how? Does it come on HD-DVD? You are so mired in your Microsoft mania that you forget this thread is about Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD.
i think you're a bit lost on the whole situation
Are there any factual statstics to prove that gaming systems are responsible for the mass adoption of the DVD format?
First, I don't buy that "a lot" of people watched DVDs via their PS2 other than teenagers and college kids. Second, I don't buy that the PS2 was primarily responsible for the explosion of the DVD market.
Are there any factual statstics to prove that gaming systems are responsible for the mass adoption of the DVD format?
The PS2 most people's first DVD player, and they did end up buying DVD's to play in it. The DVD had the whole industry behind it after IBM president Lou Gerstner got the opposing companies (supporting SD vs. MMCD) to agree upon a standard - DVD. And this is why when people got their PS2 for the first time, they started buying DVDs, because there was no disagreement in most peoples minds that it was the future of movie medias.
I think the PS2's influence on DVD buying is mucho overhyped
maybe, i thin it was more of a combination between the Ps2 and The Matrix
I think the PS2's influence on DVD buying is mucho overhyped
Sony has been very involved with the definition of many formats throughout the years, and the PS2 was just the consumer end of trying to get the DVD format to fly.
First, I don't buy that "a lot" of people watched DVDs via their PS2 other than teenagers and college kids. Second, I don't buy that the PS2 was primarily responsible for the explosion of the DVD market.
Are there any factual statstics to prove that gaming systems are responsible for the mass adoption of the DVD format?
When the PS2 came out, DVD players were about $400+. These DVD players were pretty crappy—my PS2 was much much better than my dad's $600 player (although his had a nifty, if useless, magnification feature).
DVD sales skyrocketed immediately after the PS2, literally overnight.
The DVD would've happened anyway, but it's well established that the PS2 made it happen way before it would have otherwise.
People simply wanted an answer to VHS that was something more convenient than LaserDisc. And DVD happened to be that answer. It was a form factor people instantly recognized.
The irony, I think, is that most people commented on DVDs amazing sound quality more than they commented on picture quality.
At any rate. I find it very doubtful that the PS3 will be *the* technology that pushes BluRay over the top. Not when HD-DVD has the brand-name and marketing advantage.