But claiming that the iTMS store/iPod symbiosis isn't a huge part of what makes it a juggernaut, and that cell phone music player penetration, as an end to end experience, isn't effected by the availability of something like the iTMS, doesn't seem to take much account of the reality of the market.
When I look at cell phone systems I see interfaces and "music stores" that are getting away with murder in their UIs because the whole operation has this kind of boutique, novelty vibe, heavily geared to impulse teen buying habits. Hey look! My cell says I can download the latest dance track by the hot pop babe of the moment! Awesome! I'll have forgotten about it by next week!
That will certainly drive some download sales in the short term, but to really grow the market you have to have a coherent, end to end experience that allows you to purchase, organize and find lots and lots of songs, and move them on and off your computer, in a reasonably pleasant manner. Cell phones has the delivery mechanism, which is the easy part, and the appeal of multi-use players, which are gradually getting better.
Apple has everything else, and I think arguably that's where the real heavy lifting is. [/B][/QUOTE]
well said, and insightful, it's the total package, SJ said apple is the only one that can have this sucessful business model...seemless integration won't happen when the hardware and the software developers are separate and have separate visions. itunes+ipod, or itunes+iphone works because of the single mindedness of one company committed to elegant UI. MS is rumored to try to build hardware and software like apple why is that, with all the hardware outthere and software out there, why is MS trying this tack...it will fail like other MS software/ hardware endevors....bloat--anti-elegant. their mindset is bloat not elegance. show me something that MS has done as both hardware AND software that is truly elegant, and state of the art user interface...
i bought my first ipod to store and organize my wifes music on a single interface. she had 400+cds and yes we do buy more songs. but we needed a way to get all that music organized. NOW we buy music from itms not a brick and mortor place. since i can burn whatever mix my wife wants. so some of what you say is very true, but the market is changing now that people get the ipod rip then any NEW music we buy from itms. i can't remember when we bought a music cd (we did get a kids cd because itms didn't have it....but we check itms first) since we got the ipod. so with that ipods will challenge the cd purchase market and grow grow grow.
Boys, dispite the huge succes of itms it is not the main iPod seller.
That was what i was saying.
I actually don't care about MP3 phones, their carriers, whatever... (argh, hell no)
And i stand corrected with less than 23 songs per iPod sold via itms.
That is a lot but not huge if you look at the average iPod capacity.
itms is a great enhancement of iTunes and the iPod, i didn't argue that, did i?
It makes it almost perfect, but it is not the main reason to buy an iPod. It's a bonus.
[edit] Correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't itms sales slowing down compared to iPod sales? [/edit]
iTunes is the main reason that the iPods are where they are today.
Until iTunes came out, even though the iPod were moving up the sales charts, the entire music player industry was a niche. iTunes changed that. If you look back at the sales numbers, it was itunes emergence that caused them to climb so rapidly.
If you look at Japan. iPod sales were good, but when the iTunes store opened up, the sales took a big jump. They didn't think that the Japanese would be that interested, but they are. They are a country where CD's are rented. So, therefore, it wasn't thought that buying music over the internet would take off.
the companies that had been doing it before sold very little. with their small catalog's and high prices, they were going nowhere.
iTunes changed that. It already has more than 65% of online sales, and the iPod has moved to about 65% of sales as well.
Are you talking about iTunes or iTunes Music Store?
[edit]
Quote:
If you look at Japan. iPod sales were good, but when the iTunes store opened up, the sales took a big jump. They didn't think that the Japanese would be that interested, but they are. They are a country where CD's are rented. So, therefore, it wasn't thought that buying music over the internet would take off.
the companies that had been doing it before sold very little. with their small catalog's and high prices, they were going nowhere.
iTunes changed that. It already has more than 65% of online sales, and the iPod has moved to about 65% of sales as well.
Doh, you give the reason of the IMTS succes in Japan yourself. The reason why people rent CD's in Japan is because they are expensive. That's the reason why it took so long before there was a Japanese ITMS. The musiclabels wanted to keep their absurd high margins. It's stupid to doubt about a succes with prices per song that are that low.
In Australia the iPod sales skyrocketed just like the rest of the world without an ITMS.
iPod is a fashionstatement for most people, for a small percentage it's ITMS who made them buy it.
"There was a recent survey in the UK which stated that only 8% of users were planning to upgrade to 3G this year. The phone companies need something much more compelling to convince users to upgrade to 3G and music downloads seem to be the latest whipping boy after they've failed with video calls, games and clips of Manchester United scoring goals on a tiny blocky screen."
For some reason of the tech I follow I have *never* been into 3G and Ringtones and Java Games. I had a [3/ Orange/ Hutchinson Telecoms] 3G phone in 2003 in Australia and after a few months I kept trying to "lose" it and eventually I did and I got a SE T630 2G phone.
Here in Malaysia the broadband services are pretty crap but they are very aggressive with 3G (up to 384kbps download speed) -- replete with the 3G crap that I say, why would anyone want to watch, eg. football on a tiny screen.
3G internet access (eg. EVDO??) that's faster than EDGE or GPRS I can see is very handy for very mobile workpeople that need continual connections particularly in the suburbs/ etc. where there is much less wifi hotspot connectivity.
It's the 3G for consumers/ teens/ etc. that still boggle my mind -- Is it that great? Why do I need it?
yes, mel our beloved apple has time - not sure if anyone mentioned it, but we have some hard data now, or at least some numbers :
sony reports 3 million walkman phones sold over 6 months.
But we have no data on how many of those purchasers bought it because they thought it was a good phone but have no intention of using it as an MP3 player - perhaps because many of them already own a different, popular MP3 player.
Are you talking about iTunes or iTunes Music Store?
[edit]
Doh, you give the reason of the IMTS succes in Japan yourself. The reason why people rent CD's in Japan is because they are expensive. That's the reason why it took so long before there was a Japanese ITMS. The musiclabels wanted to keep their absurd high margins. It's stupid to doubt about a succes with prices per song that are that low.
In Australia the iPod sales skyrocketed just like the rest of the world without an ITMS.
iPod is a fashionstatement for most people, for a small percentage it's ITMS who made them buy it.
It's zeitgeist [/edit]
As iTunes, the program, came out before the iPod, when I use that shorthand, as many do, I mean the store. Since I weas specifically talking about buyiny music through it, it had to be the store.
Everything in Japan is expensive. Grapefruits are several dollars apiece.
The Japanese are used to paying top dollar for their goods.
The point was that it was said that they wouldn't be interested in buyimg from the internet because it had done so poorly there already, and the renting of CD's made it less likely.
That was clearly wrong.
And I agree with Gene. Stop saying Doh. It makes you seem like a slow learner.
I am a slow learner, that's why i don't like those so called 'swiss army knife' mobilephones.
If Apple could do it right, than there still will be another issue:
They have to sell it as well.
Kids and young adults who would love such features don't spent top euro for their mobilephone. They get them for free with an one year subcription; Last year a sonyericsson, this year a samsung, next year a nokia.
I think it's better for apple to stay away from this bussines or, if they really feel the urge, join a real big world player like nokia to design and market their product with.
[offtopic] not everything is expensive in Japan, books are cheap in Japan. [/offtopic]
Comments
When I look at cell phone systems I see interfaces and "music stores" that are getting away with murder in their UIs because the whole operation has this kind of boutique, novelty vibe, heavily geared to impulse teen buying habits. Hey look! My cell says I can download the latest dance track by the hot pop babe of the moment! Awesome! I'll have forgotten about it by next week!
That will certainly drive some download sales in the short term, but to really grow the market you have to have a coherent, end to end experience that allows you to purchase, organize and find lots and lots of songs, and move them on and off your computer, in a reasonably pleasant manner. Cell phones has the delivery mechanism, which is the easy part, and the appeal of multi-use players, which are gradually getting better.
Apple has everything else, and I think arguably that's where the real heavy lifting is. [/B][/QUOTE]
well said, and insightful, it's the total package, SJ said apple is the only one that can have this sucessful business model...seemless integration won't happen when the hardware and the software developers are separate and have separate visions. itunes+ipod, or itunes+iphone works because of the single mindedness of one company committed to elegant UI. MS is rumored to try to build hardware and software like apple why is that, with all the hardware outthere and software out there, why is MS trying this tack...it will fail like other MS software/ hardware endevors....bloat--anti-elegant. their mindset is bloat not elegance. show me something that MS has done as both hardware AND software that is truly elegant, and state of the art user interface...
That was what i was saying.
I actually don't care about MP3 phones, their carriers, whatever... (argh, hell no)
And i stand corrected with less than 23 songs per iPod sold via itms.
That is a lot but not huge if you look at the average iPod capacity.
itms is a great enhancement of iTunes and the iPod, i didn't argue that, did i?
It makes it almost perfect, but it is not the main reason to buy an iPod. It's a bonus.
[edit] Correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't itms sales slowing down compared to iPod sales? [/edit]
Originally posted by gar
Boys, dispite the huge succes of itms it is not the main iPod seller.
That was what i was saying.
I actually don't care about MP3 phones, their carriers, whatever... (argh, hell no)
And i stand corrected with less than 23 songs per iPod sold via itms.
That is a lot but not huge if you look at the average iPod capacity.
itms is a great enhancement of iTunes and the iPod, i didn't argue that, did i?
It makes it almost perfect, but it is not the main reason to buy an iPod. It's a bonus.
[edit] Correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't itms sales slowing down compared to iPod sales? [/edit]
iTunes is the main reason that the iPods are where they are today.
Until iTunes came out, even though the iPod were moving up the sales charts, the entire music player industry was a niche. iTunes changed that. If you look back at the sales numbers, it was itunes emergence that caused them to climb so rapidly.
If you look at Japan. iPod sales were good, but when the iTunes store opened up, the sales took a big jump. They didn't think that the Japanese would be that interested, but they are. They are a country where CD's are rented. So, therefore, it wasn't thought that buying music over the internet would take off.
the companies that had been doing it before sold very little. with their small catalog's and high prices, they were going nowhere.
iTunes changed that. It already has more than 65% of online sales, and the iPod has moved to about 65% of sales as well.
Originally posted by melgross
iTunes [snip]
Are you talking about iTunes or iTunes Music Store?
[edit]
If you look at Japan. iPod sales were good, but when the iTunes store opened up, the sales took a big jump. They didn't think that the Japanese would be that interested, but they are. They are a country where CD's are rented. So, therefore, it wasn't thought that buying music over the internet would take off.
the companies that had been doing it before sold very little. with their small catalog's and high prices, they were going nowhere.
iTunes changed that. It already has more than 65% of online sales, and the iPod has moved to about 65% of sales as well.
Doh, you give the reason of the IMTS succes in Japan yourself. The reason why people rent CD's in Japan is because they are expensive. That's the reason why it took so long before there was a Japanese ITMS. The musiclabels wanted to keep their absurd high margins. It's stupid to doubt about a succes with prices per song that are that low.
In Australia the iPod sales skyrocketed just like the rest of the world without an ITMS.
iPod is a fashionstatement for most people, for a small percentage it's ITMS who made them buy it.
It's zeitgeist [/edit]
Originally posted by gar
Doh
Would you stop saying "Doh" on every post dude? It's extremely irritating.
"There was a recent survey in the UK which stated that only 8% of users were planning to upgrade to 3G this year. The phone companies need something much more compelling to convince users to upgrade to 3G and music downloads seem to be the latest whipping boy after they've failed with video calls, games and clips of Manchester United scoring goals on a tiny blocky screen."
For some reason of the tech I follow I have *never* been into 3G and Ringtones and Java Games. I had a [3/ Orange/ Hutchinson Telecoms] 3G phone in 2003 in Australia and after a few months I kept trying to "lose" it and eventually I did and I got a SE T630 2G phone.
Here in Malaysia the broadband services are pretty crap but they are very aggressive with 3G (up to 384kbps download speed) -- replete with the 3G crap that I say, why would anyone want to watch, eg. football on a tiny screen.
3G internet access (eg. EVDO??) that's faster than EDGE or GPRS I can see is very handy for very mobile workpeople that need continual connections particularly in the suburbs/ etc. where there is much less wifi hotspot connectivity.
It's the 3G for consumers/ teens/ etc. that still boggle my mind -- Is it that great? Why do I need it?
Originally posted by sunilraman
yes, mel our beloved apple has time
sony reports 3 million walkman phones sold over 6 months.
But we have no data on how many of those purchasers bought it because they thought it was a good phone but have no intention of using it as an MP3 player - perhaps because many of them already own a different, popular MP3 player.
Any guesses which one?
Edit: teh spelings
Originally posted by gar
Are you talking about iTunes or iTunes Music Store?
[edit]
Doh, you give the reason of the IMTS succes in Japan yourself. The reason why people rent CD's in Japan is because they are expensive. That's the reason why it took so long before there was a Japanese ITMS. The musiclabels wanted to keep their absurd high margins. It's stupid to doubt about a succes with prices per song that are that low.
In Australia the iPod sales skyrocketed just like the rest of the world without an ITMS.
iPod is a fashionstatement for most people, for a small percentage it's ITMS who made them buy it.
It's zeitgeist [/edit]
As iTunes, the program, came out before the iPod, when I use that shorthand, as many do, I mean the store. Since I weas specifically talking about buyiny music through it, it had to be the store.
Everything in Japan is expensive. Grapefruits are several dollars apiece.
The Japanese are used to paying top dollar for their goods.
The point was that it was said that they wouldn't be interested in buyimg from the internet because it had done so poorly there already, and the renting of CD's made it less likely.
That was clearly wrong.
And I agree with Gene. Stop saying Doh. It makes you seem like a slow learner.
If Apple could do it right, than there still will be another issue:
They have to sell it as well.
Kids and young adults who would love such features don't spent top euro for their mobilephone. They get them for free with an one year subcription; Last year a sonyericsson, this year a samsung, next year a nokia.
I think it's better for apple to stay away from this bussines or, if they really feel the urge, join a real big world player like nokia to design and market their product with.
[offtopic] not everything is expensive in Japan, books are cheap in Japan. [/offtopic]
....if they really feel the urge, join a real big world player like nokia to design and market their product with......
or Moto
[offtopic] not everything is expensive in Japan, books are cheap in Japan. [/offtopic]
Also, Apple stuff in Japan is the cheapest outside the US.
$149 for iPod nano in US
$150 equiv. for iPod nano in Japan
Originally posted by sunilraman
Originally posted by gar
[offtopic] not everything is expensive in Japan, books are cheap in Japan. [/offtopic]
Also, Apple stuff in Japan is the cheapest outside the US.
$149 for iPod nano in US
$150 equiv. for iPod nano in Japan
Rice is artificially cheap. Everything else is not. Imported foods are so expensive that people give them as gifts.