I do think that convergence is at work here though.
While Jobs pooh pooh'd convergence, Apple is swiftly moving towards it.
People are wrong if they think that it's impossible to make an all around device work well. It takes the proper understanding of what will appeal to the most people. Companies are moving heky jerky towards that.
The iPod itself shows that a multi-purpose device can work well, and be popular.
The iTunes phone (Rokkr) wasn't popular because it simply wasn't a good, stylish phone. It was also limited, by Apple, to 100 songs. The SLVR is a better phone by most accounts, and it's also stylish. It's still limited to 100 songs. Will that kill it?
The point is that these things can be done. It just has to be done right.
Can Apple do it right? Maybe. It's a big market. I'm sure Apple would like to get a piece of it.
I think these tests with Moto are just that. Apple will see how it works. When they think they have it figured out, they will come out with something. They have time.
I agree. Apple can make the successor to the iPod or somebody else WILL.
Ok. But Apple have a 40+ million iPod lead over SE. And Microsot has a billion OS lead over Crystler.
Right. We have to look at this in context.
Jobs said that a video iPod would be absurd, because there are only limited times when one can watch video's compared to when one can listen.
That's true. But now we have the 5G. no matter what Apple calls it, it is the first video iPod. Maybe the second will arrive April 1st.
He has derided convergence for years.
But, convergence is happening. sometimes thing grow on their own, and no one can stop them.
How many phones were sold last year? 250 million, 500 million, 750 million, more?
The point is that even if poorly designed (by iPod standards) music/video phones are sold, there are people who will buy them. Even without iTunes. 10% of that market could dwarf Apple's sales of iPods in a couple of years.
If this continues for a time, the phones and services will get better. They always do.
If Apple rushes into this, they may not have a good enough product to make a dent. Better wait until they do.
But, if they wait too long, it may be too late. It could take another two years, but, it will happen. Apple could get shut out of the music/video phone market.
That phone is totally un apple-like. Apple goes with simplicity and intuity (is that a word?) Anyway, it looks too much like stuff already out there. If apple makes an iPhone it will blow the socks of anything currently on the market, because they'll have actually THOUGHT it through thoroughly, unlike other cell phone makers. People always underestimate Apple, its amazing.
Also, I don't know if this has been said yet (I didn't read all the posts), but getting back to the 6th generation iPod. Any design, if you can't hold it and use it effectively in one hand, is not going to work. The only designs I've seen so far requre two hands to use effectively, and I highly, highly doubt Apple would do that to the iPod.
I don't think it's reasonable to constantly cite music capable phone sales as representing a direct challenge to the iPod. If the carrier is subsidizing the cost and the phone does some cool shit, why not?
That doesn't mean that everybody that gets one, or even most of the people that get one, then proceed to make that phone the center of their portable music habits.
It's like reasoning that since half a jillion phones with cameras got sold last year that the digital camera manufacturers have to do something to "respond" or they will find themselves edged out of the market.
Sure, camera phones will get better, but a dedicated device still offers amenities that a do everything device can't.
SE sold 3 million in 2/3rds the time. The Walkman phones are good phones with good music players built in. The iTunes phone was two year old tech which quite probably would have sold even less but for it having iTunes.
hmmmm.... appleinsider just posted the moto figures.
"Mobile phone maker Sony Ericsson said today it has sold more than 3 million of its Walkman phone models since the first one came on the market six months ago. (By comparison, Motorola in November said it had shipped over 500,000 of its ROKR E1 iTunes phones since they were announced two months earlier.)
so by these calculations SE did 500,000 per month as of today and Moto did approx. 167,000 per month of only the ROKR E1 as of last November
this would suggest Moto itunes phone are not doing too badly, but we don't have any figures for this year.....
I don't think it's reasonable to constantly cite music capable phone sales as representing a direct challenge to the iPod.
Sure, camera phones will get better, but a dedicated device still offers amenities that a do everything device can't.
I see your point but have to ask what it is you believe a phone/music player will never do that an iPod does???
The only hard-to-solve thing that holds back these phones is the seemless iTunes integration - but even here i believe that rival software will catch up with iTunes one of these days.
Right now I carry my phone and my iPod with me, and as soon as
Phone-mp3 players catch with my ipod on all fronts, I will switch and dump half my equipment.
The only hard-to-solve thing that holds back these phones is the seemless iTunes integration - but even here i believe that rival software will catch up with iTunes one of these days.
See Dreamsicle, mentioned earlier. Itunes integration with Sony's Walkman phones is here already.
Phone is for calling people, playing music on it just seems so wrong. My $99AUD vodaphone nokia 1600 makes calls and sends texts. For anything else, I have in my otherpocket a PDA, and sitting on my desk a computer. Why do I need an ipod phone?
Phone is for calling people, playing music on it just seems so wrong. My $99AUD vodaphone nokia 1600 makes calls and sends texts. For anything else, I have in my otherpocket a PDA, and sitting on my desk a computer. Why do I need an ipod phone?
Phones are just for calling on. Computers are for writing text.
You could go on ad infinitum.
Telegraph wires are for sending messages on. The air is for breathing.
Technology marches on, whether we all need it or not.
I see your point but have to ask what it is you believe a phone/music player will never do that an iPod does???
The only hard-to-solve thing that holds back these phones is the seemless iTunes integration - but even here i believe that rival software will catch up with iTunes one of these days.
Right now I carry my phone and my iPod with me, and as soon as
Phone-mp3 players catch with my ipod on all fronts, I will switch and dump half my equipment.
I see your point but have to ask what it is you believe a phone/music player will never do that an iPod does???
The only hard-to-solve thing that holds back these phones is the seemless iTunes integration - but even here i believe that rival software will catch up with iTunes one of these days.
Right now I carry my phone and my iPod with me, and as soon as
Phone-mp3 players catch with my ipod on all fronts, I will switch and dump half my equipment.
Phone is for calling people, playing music on it just seems so wrong. My $99AUD vodaphone nokia 1600 makes calls and sends texts. For anything else, I have in my otherpocket a PDA, and sitting on my desk a computer. Why do I need an ipod phone?
Well, you don't, as apparently carrying two devices in your pocktes is no problem for you.
I for one would consider it a big advantage to only have to carry, charge and synchronize one device. For this reason I would very much like a phone that is small enoug to carry in a trouser-pocket, and when i feel like listening to music i can just plug in my headphones.
Comments
Originally posted by melgross
I do think that convergence is at work here though.
While Jobs pooh pooh'd convergence, Apple is swiftly moving towards it.
People are wrong if they think that it's impossible to make an all around device work well. It takes the proper understanding of what will appeal to the most people. Companies are moving heky jerky towards that.
The iPod itself shows that a multi-purpose device can work well, and be popular.
The iTunes phone (Rokkr) wasn't popular because it simply wasn't a good, stylish phone. It was also limited, by Apple, to 100 songs. The SLVR is a better phone by most accounts, and it's also stylish. It's still limited to 100 songs. Will that kill it?
The point is that these things can be done. It just has to be done right.
Can Apple do it right? Maybe. It's a big market. I'm sure Apple would like to get a piece of it.
I think these tests with Moto are just that. Apple will see how it works. When they think they have it figured out, they will come out with something. They have time.
I agree. Apple can make the successor to the iPod or somebody else WILL.
Originally posted by Anders
Ok. But Apple have a 40+ million iPod lead over SE. And Microsot has a billion OS lead over Crystler.
Right. We have to look at this in context.
Jobs said that a video iPod would be absurd, because there are only limited times when one can watch video's compared to when one can listen.
That's true. But now we have the 5G. no matter what Apple calls it, it is the first video iPod. Maybe the second will arrive April 1st.
He has derided convergence for years.
But, convergence is happening. sometimes thing grow on their own, and no one can stop them.
How many phones were sold last year? 250 million, 500 million, 750 million, more?
The point is that even if poorly designed (by iPod standards) music/video phones are sold, there are people who will buy them. Even without iTunes. 10% of that market could dwarf Apple's sales of iPods in a couple of years.
If this continues for a time, the phones and services will get better. They always do.
If Apple rushes into this, they may not have a good enough product to make a dent. Better wait until they do.
But, if they wait too long, it may be too late. It could take another two years, but, it will happen. Apple could get shut out of the music/video phone market.
They know that.
It does look nice, I'll give them that, at least.
Is it real, or is it Memorex? (Ah, the good old days!)
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=29703
Originally posted by melgross
Well, it's starting already. Here's a site with a supposed Apple iPhone.
It does look nice, I'll give them that, at least.
Is it real, or is it Memorex? (Ah, the good old days!)
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=29703
That phone is totally un apple-like. Apple goes with simplicity and intuity (is that a word?) Anyway, it looks too much like stuff already out there. If apple makes an iPhone it will blow the socks of anything currently on the market, because they'll have actually THOUGHT it through thoroughly, unlike other cell phone makers. People always underestimate Apple, its amazing.
Originally posted by melgross
Well, it's starting already. Here's a site with a supposed Apple iPhone.
It does look nice, I'll give them that, at least.
Is it real, or is it Memorex? (Ah, the good old days!)
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=29703
Doh! Those 'journalists' should do their research.
http://www.applele.com/
The shots are from a well known amateur designer in Japan.
Originally posted by DeaPeaJay
seriously, I give that site A for effort, but all of the designs are really really bad.
And I give you an A for Apple fanboism, and an F for taste.
That doesn't mean that everybody that gets one, or even most of the people that get one, then proceed to make that phone the center of their portable music habits.
It's like reasoning that since half a jillion phones with cameras got sold last year that the digital camera manufacturers have to do something to "respond" or they will find themselves edged out of the market.
Sure, camera phones will get better, but a dedicated device still offers amenities that a do everything device can't.
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Less than that. Moto said they'd sold 500,000.
SE sold 3 million in 2/3rds the time. The Walkman phones are good phones with good music players built in. The iTunes phone was two year old tech which quite probably would have sold even less but for it having iTunes.
hmmmm.... appleinsider just posted the moto figures.
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1530
"Mobile phone maker Sony Ericsson said today it has sold more than 3 million of its Walkman phone models since the first one came on the market six months ago. (By comparison, Motorola in November said it had shipped over 500,000 of its ROKR E1 iTunes phones since they were announced two months earlier.)
so by these calculations SE did 500,000 per month as of today and Moto did approx. 167,000 per month of only the ROKR E1 as of last November
this would suggest Moto itunes phone are not doing too badly, but we don't have any figures for this year.....
Originally posted by addabox
I don't think it's reasonable to constantly cite music capable phone sales as representing a direct challenge to the iPod.
Sure, camera phones will get better, but a dedicated device still offers amenities that a do everything device can't.
I see your point but have to ask what it is you believe a phone/music player will never do that an iPod does???
The only hard-to-solve thing that holds back these phones is the seemless iTunes integration - but even here i believe that rival software will catch up with iTunes one of these days.
Right now I carry my phone and my iPod with me, and as soon as
Phone-mp3 players catch with my ipod on all fronts, I will switch and dump half my equipment.
Originally posted by dutch pear
The only hard-to-solve thing that holds back these phones is the seemless iTunes integration - but even here i believe that rival software will catch up with iTunes one of these days.
See Dreamsicle, mentioned earlier. Itunes integration with Sony's Walkman phones is here already.
Originally posted by dutch pear
[B]I see your point but have to ask what it is you believe a phone/music player will never do that an iPod does???
Can you call your GF with your iPod? I thought so.
Originally posted by Gene Clean
Can you call your GF with your iPod? I thought so.
doh...
most of the time i use my iPod so i don't have to listen to anyone,
including girlfriend and mobilephone.
Originally posted by Gene Clean
Can you call your GF with your iPod? I thought so.
Uhm, read the question again...
I know what a phone can do that an iPod can't...
Originally posted by dutch pear
Uhm, read the question again...
I know what a phone can do that an iPod can't...
Phone is for calling people, playing music on it just seems so wrong. My $99AUD vodaphone nokia 1600 makes calls and sends texts. For anything else, I have in my otherpocket a PDA, and sitting on my desk a computer. Why do I need an ipod phone?
Originally posted by pyriX
Phone is for calling people, playing music on it just seems so wrong. My $99AUD vodaphone nokia 1600 makes calls and sends texts. For anything else, I have in my otherpocket a PDA, and sitting on my desk a computer. Why do I need an ipod phone?
Phones are just for calling on. Computers are for writing text.
You could go on ad infinitum.
Telegraph wires are for sending messages on. The air is for breathing.
Technology marches on, whether we all need it or not.
Originally posted by dutch pear
I see your point but have to ask what it is you believe a phone/music player will never do that an iPod does???
The only hard-to-solve thing that holds back these phones is the seemless iTunes integration - but even here i believe that rival software will catch up with iTunes one of these days.
Right now I carry my phone and my iPod with me, and as soon as
Phone-mp3 players catch with my ipod on all fronts, I will switch and dump half my equipment.
When that happens iPods go the way of PDAs.
Originally posted by dutch pear
I see your point but have to ask what it is you believe a phone/music player will never do that an iPod does???
The only hard-to-solve thing that holds back these phones is the seemless iTunes integration - but even here i believe that rival software will catch up with iTunes one of these days.
Right now I carry my phone and my iPod with me, and as soon as
Phone-mp3 players catch with my ipod on all fronts, I will switch and dump half my equipment.
When that happens iPods go the way of PDAs.
Originally posted by pyriX
Phone is for calling people, playing music on it just seems so wrong. My $99AUD vodaphone nokia 1600 makes calls and sends texts. For anything else, I have in my otherpocket a PDA, and sitting on my desk a computer. Why do I need an ipod phone?
Well, you don't, as apparently carrying two devices in your pocktes is no problem for you.
I for one would consider it a big advantage to only have to carry, charge and synchronize one device. For this reason I would very much like a phone that is small enoug to carry in a trouser-pocket, and when i feel like listening to music i can just plug in my headphones.