Perhaps if you told us what you believed in rational terms I wouldn't have to wage this semantic argument with you.
Mr. Placebo
With all due respect, I'll take the blame for your less than serious remarks, if you just read the thread instead of me repeating it to you, deal? Here's the highlights:
Do we find numerology involved in the september 11 attacks beyond mathematical probability?
If we do who do these fingerprints on the crime scene lead os away from and who do they lead us towards? or is it impossible to conclude anything from this?
I'm not the critic of the official explanation, but I'm wondering why the media won't less us hear these critics, and in this thread I'm putting up links so that some of you (perhaps for the first time) get a chance to hear both sides of the story and form your own opinion, like I myself have done.
I've become more than a little speptical of the official explanation of what happened that day, why it happened and what it is being used for, but I'm NOT telling anyone here what to think! I'm asking you to form your own opinion.
It might be the single most important ting you'll ever do. Any opinion is welcome.
One more time:
David Ray Griffin A speech by a published writer and professor of theology and philosofy. Serious and factual.
Steven E. JonesA lecture given at a university by a Professor in Physics. Serious and factual.
So you're saying that it's probable that the location of Bin Laden's cave is at a latitude and longitude comprised of ones and nines?
And why would the perpetrators of this crime provide clues to lead us to it? That doesn't make sense.
I think you're under the impression that terrorists have the same modus operandi as supervillains and Hardy Boys characters. This most likely isn't the case.
So you're saying that it's probable that the location of Bin Laden's cave is at a latitude and longitude comprised of ones and nines?
And why would the perpetrators of this crime provide clues to lead us to it? That doesn't make sense.
I think you're under the impression that terrorists have the same modus operandi as supervillains and Hardy Boys characters. This most likely isn't the case.
Hello Placebo
While you are closing in, you are still far from my point.
1) The Bin Laden cave location is escaping my understanding?
2) No one leaves clues for their crime unless they are sick and wants to get caught, probably not the case here. But if they didn't get there by chance, is it a sign that whoever planned the attacks whorship this peagan belief? Is it a signal to a global network of secret societies who is doing what?
Like I wrote in my 3 post (sorry it was not my first post like I wrote earlier) in this thread, the public can always be trusted to ridicule and mock the things that appear outside our circle of concensus. They know we are mostly unable to simply observe and conclude outside the frame of concensus.
I believe there's been ample proof in this thread that even when, what will never be on the news, is presented to "the public" they can always be conted on NOT to connect the dots.
Just like...only few will take an interest large enought to perhaps watch the documentaries I listed and linked to.
It's a lot of work to watch several documentaries and it takes time, I admit that, but if you truely had the big picture of how YOUR civil liberties are being taken away for good, because of attacks that you are not supposed to investigate on your own but simply believe what you are being told, well, you might take the time none the less.
I'm not sure if you are beginning to realize that I'm trying to help everyone here get information that for some reason is not being broadcast to your televisions...
Do we believe everything we watch on the news?
Is there still room for debate on the big issues that change society?
Are we passive onlookers in our world or active thinkers?
Check out Jordan Maxwell and his teachings, perhaps there indeed is a very well organized society behind the confusion. Those who spread the confusion are perhaps not confused themselves, but are merely using it as a tool to keep the public passive. A confused mind takes no action.
If the other passengers on this ship of fools are not alerted to the imminent threat to our own survival, we'll all go down with the ship.
You and I must understand that to many people, we appear to be crazy conspiracy nuts with no lives. In order to give them a chance to free themselves from the brainwash we must present them with an opportunity to take a look at the evidence a 911 coverup, so they can make up their own mind.
Ofcause we are frustrated that so many believe the official conspiracytheory (especially when in reality they have not seen any evidence, they just feel they have) the fact remains, if they are ever to open their eyes they must be treated with respect and simply given a fair chance to make up their own minds, this time how ever, by looking at both sides of the story, and not just ONLY the official explanation.
People, if you believe in a free country with free speech, civil liberties and if you believe that in a democratic society there should be room for debate, then take a look at the videos below, and simply ask yourself if there is something there that is being kept out of the media, which means away from you.
If you want to know, whan some don't want you to know, then watch below. Us that already know, desperately understand the importance in blowing the whistle on this one.
it's up to you.
Despite all the proof being out there that 911 was either partly or wholly an 'inside job', other factors are preventing people from coming to their senses. These were surely taken into account by the perps:
(1) The greater majority of people, especially here in the US, get their "news information" from a small handful of very large and influential media conglomerates, which have all but imposed a blackout or taboo on 911 facts that don't fit the official story.
(2) Most people would rather not believe that elements within the US government had a partial (or greater) role to play in the planning and execution of the 9-11 attacks. It is too much to bear, and denial is far simpler and much more comfortable: "People in the US government don't do that kind of stuff", or "It can't happen here" (!)
(3) Repetition is King. In other words: "A lie told often enough soon becomes the accepted "truth". Even for many of those who have researched the events of that day and found that the official conspiracy yarn is the biggest crock of bull since Bishop Ussher dated the Earth as approximately 6000 years old, the mantra of "Osama bin Laden and those 19 Arabs being responsible" has been repeated so often. so endlessly, day in, day out, on the radio, tv, newspapers and elsewhere, that even the skeptics have to slap themselves in the face from time to time and keep reminding themselves that reason and sound science cannot and must not get hijacked by conditioning via endless repetition.
EDIT As an afterthought:
(4) "Ownership of the guns of ridicule". The parties who get the big publicity on a accepted story, namely the US government with the unquestioning media in lockstep, will always be the ones who can throw the "conspiracy theorist" label around, and insodoing, ridiculing alternative hypotheses by association with "paranoid conspiracy theory" at a stroke. The notion that the official version is just another conspiracy theory is roundly ignored. This has happened with the 911 attacks and has the mechanism of (1), (2) and (3) to perpetuate it.
(5) Disparity of standards of evidence and proof. The Government tells a story, and people will accept it on blind faith, no matter now flawed, without demanding any rigorous proof. Even blatantly bogus material and contradictory statements appear acceptable to Joe Public. On the other hand, the skeptics are required to present the most exhaustively rigorous, peer-reviewed, battleproof, multicorroborated evidence, (which of course is the right approach). But even that is inadequate for Joe Public. This mechanism is dependent of (2)
I think deep within the levels of US government a group of people had an inkling that 9.11 was going to happen. I believe that these people did not intentionally set up the events, but they had enough info that the terrorists were gonna do it. These people, again, deep within the levels of US government agencies were able to "let it slide" enough to let it all happen. Intentional negligence. But within a very very closed circle of people spanning different government agencies and groups. I believe Bush and Rumsfeld didn't know it was going to happen, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Cheney, well, hmm....
I think deep within the levels of US government a group of people had an inkling that 9.11 was going to happen. I believe that these people did not intentionally set up the events, but they had enough info that the terrorists were gonna do it. These people, again, deep within the levels of US government agencies were able to "let it slide" enough to let it all happen. Intentional negligence. But within a very very closed circle of people spanning different government agencies and groups. I believe Bush and Rumsfeld didn't know it was going to happen, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Cheney, well, hmm....
Although I'm sure Bush knew that something was about to go down that morning, I'm quite convinced he wasn't completely in the loop; first, his reaction to Andy Card's famous 5 second whisper was a "blank, glazed over look" combined with a bit of the "deer in the headlamps"... a hybrid of "WTF do I do now?" and "oh my god, they really did do it.. lets hope they got all the loose ends tied up". Had he known absolutely nothing in advance, his reaction would have been to do his duty as commander-in-chief (one would assume), immediately abandon the reading session, quickly explain to the kids and teachers "some very important business has cropped up, but I shall be back soon, and we'll do this again", or similar, and had the entire presidential party get the hell out of the area asap ... but what followed was bizarre, illogical and ran against all secret service presidential detail protocol... they hung him out to dry at that school for almost another 35 minutes, when they should have assumed, while the attacks were ongoing, that the president was a prime and obvious target. The presidents Secret Service detail oddly seemed to know that Bush was in no danger, in contrast to Cheney's case, where they carried him to an underground bunker.
Rumsfeld knew what was going down; but he's getting senile, and he has let out a lapsus lingua or two or three since 911... and Cheney... well that requires a thread of its own.
Although I'm sure Bush knew that something was about to go down that morning, I'm quite convinced he wasn't completely in the loop; first, his reaction to Andy Card's famous 5 second whisper was a "blank, glazed over look" combined with a bit of the "deer in the headlamps"... a hybrid of "WTF do I do now?" and "oh my god, they really did do it.. lets hope they got all the loose ends tied up". Had he known absolutely nothing in advance, his reaction would have been to do his duty as commander-in-chief (one would assume), immediately abandon the reading session, quickly explain to the kids and teachers "some very important business has cropped up, but I shall be back soon, and we'll do this again", or similar, and had the entire presidential party get the hell out of the area asap ... but what followed was bizarre, illogical and ran against all secret service presidential detail protocol... they hung him out to dry at that school for almost another 35 minutes, when they should have assumed, while the attacks were ongoing, that the president was a prime and obvious target. The presidents Secret Service detail oddly seemed to know that Bush was in no danger, in contrast to Cheney's case, where they carried him to an underground bunker.
Rumsfeld knew what was going down; but he's getting senile, and he has let out a lapsus lingua or two or three since 911... and Cheney... well that requires a thread of its own.
The big question: WHY?
For better or worse Zab the Fab is the only one who's been clear on this point- or rather his sources are. No one else seems to have taken a stab at it.
The big question: WHY? For better or worse Zab the Fab is the only one who's been clear on this point- or rather his sources are. No one else seems to have taken a stab at it.
I haven't looked at Zab the Fab's stuff. Honestly, I don't want to, I might find it too disturbing. Ever since it happened (I was in San Francisco at the time, my parents and brother from overseas called and woke me up. They said, do you know what happened?... I turned on the TV, saw the 1st tower already in flames, then, well the rest is history...) As I was saying, ever since it happened, my gut feeling told me all along that there was enough info out around that something BIG was going to go down. Something unprecedented. Every person in every government agency, covert or legit or whatever, would have some reason to either push for more to be done, or less to be done, according to what they believe. At higher levels is where it gets interesting, which way the "higher-ups" pushed it -- as in like, "should we have fighter planes on patrol since 5am that morning for 48hours or something?". A lot of stuff went down that day. We may never know the real truth. It comes down to what you believe. Zab the Fab has some stuff that will form your opinion. As for me, I have mine, I'm happy with it for now.
WHY? You'd have to ask everyone that was remotely involved in the intel pre-9.11 and ask them WHY they chose to do whatever they did pre-9.11.
I also believe this century a major metropolitan area will be hit with a nuclear device (dirty bomb or major blowup) by terrorists. It would suck ass that this could happen, but I believe it will. This century. I have no proof, no numbers to run, and to be honest it came out of a New Age book I read. But whatever it is, it's just what I believe.
It was rumored that Boston was, but that never materialized.
Here's where I don't quite understand Zab:
I agree that it's entirely possible that 9/11 was caused by negligence or even deliberate planning in the White House. Heck, some new World Order might even be involved. But honestly, where do numers come in?
It was rumored that Boston was, but that never materialized.
Here's where I don't quite understand Zab:
I agree that it's entirely possible that 9/11 was caused by negligence or even deliberate planning in the White House. Heck, some new World Order might even be involved. But honestly, where do numers come in?
I agree. In fact long before 9/11 "conspiracy theories" gained the more mainstream position they are now pushing-for I was discussing with close friends many of the discrepancies, etc. involved. I believe that dragging numerology into the discussion really only serves to cloud the issue and turn off people who might otherwise honestly consider what you have to say. As someone else has already pointed out, you could choose almost any number and "discover" statistics and relevant numbers related to 911 that could be manipulated to add up to that. Get 4 or 5 of them and *gasp* it must be connected, it couldn't possibly be a coincidence.
I agree. In fact long before 9/11 "conspiracy theories" gained the more mainstream position they are now pushing-for I was discussing with close friends many of the discrepancies, etc. involved. I believe that dragging numerology into the discussion really only serves to cloud the issue and turn off people who might otherwise honestly consider what you have to say.
I couldn't agree more. There are already enough impossibilities, improbabilities, inconsistencies and coincidences in the Government's account, without the issue being all muddied still further by getting New Age pseudo-sciences involved.
Quote:
As someone else has already pointed out, you could choose almost any number and "discover" statistics and relevant numbers related to 911 that could be manipulated to add up to that. Get 4 or 5 of them and *gasp* it must be connected, it couldn't possibly be a coincidence.
Thats how those things "work". Recall the Bible Code and the "prophecies" contained therein? Didn't someone do the same analysis with Moby Dick and find references to future events, using the same methods? Pseudosciences are fatally flawed because of "less than rigorous" analysis, drawing conclusions based upon arbitrariness, and especially, arriving at a preconceived (or convenient to the investigators) conclusion and cherrypicking the evidence to fit that conclusion. The 9-11 Commission's findings have all these hallmarks of pseudoscience, especially as regards the cherrypicking of evidence, and are as a result, fatally flawed.
Didn't the Jehova's Witnesses get all ready for the world to end in 1914... Check this page out, it's rather sobering as far as Christian prediction skills go. Keep in mind most of these are based on these type of number tricks.
I believe that 9/11 was a conspiracy or at least intended neligence. I don't see where numbers come in.
My take on it is that the people responsible for the event have a belief in numbers and symbols, and did it for their own benefit. Lets face it, if one was crazy enough to try something this big, they would have to feel like they have got 'something' on their side. I'm betting that what we are talking about is a group of very powerful, secretive people who manipulate world events to further their own power. They frame their actions in ancient symbols or numbers in a belief that it will ensure their success. Think of it as a religion for the uber-creepy who want immense power. It doesn't have to make sense or add up, it just has give one the belief in their own special powers.
I believe that 9/11 was a conspiracy or at least intended neligence. I don't see where numbers come in.
I respect you for telling people what you believe happened that day, and it so happens that we agree, but any opinion is welcome AND respected.
Where do the numbers come in? Well that's the core question that I'm raising here. Some of us take the time to listen to the critics and the sceptics on the official story, and some of us agree that there indeed are a lot of unanswered questions.
Next question would be: "well who did it then?" We wanna know who did it. Someone hurt us bad, someone carried out attacks that changed the world. I'm writing to you all from a country that's right now fighting with USA in Iraq because of 911, or at least so we were told in the beginning by our prime minister who has a remarkable ability to sing along to Bush and Blair despite voters opinions on the subject. ... so who did it? is there any way of telling at all? Are there numerology involved in this? Would they be worried that we could connect the dots... well look at the reaction here in the thread. Has it been established that there are numbers involved? are we still having problems fitting it into our mind? ...and... are they aware of this group-think mentality? did they put it there?
Are numerology starring us in the face, with us as the observing party unable to comprehend it's meaning? ...who would use numerology in the planning of terror events? doesn't it sound "far out" (far outside the circle of concensus) ?
Comments
Originally posted by Placebo
Perhaps if you told us what you believed in rational terms I wouldn't have to wage this semantic argument with you.
Mr. Placebo
With all due respect, I'll take the blame for your less than serious remarks, if you just read the thread instead of me repeating it to you, deal? Here's the highlights:
Do we find numerology involved in the september 11 attacks beyond mathematical probability?
If we do who do these fingerprints on the crime scene lead os away from and who do they lead us towards? or is it impossible to conclude anything from this?
I'm not the critic of the official explanation, but I'm wondering why the media won't less us hear these critics, and in this thread I'm putting up links so that some of you (perhaps for the first time) get a chance to hear both sides of the story and form your own opinion, like I myself have done.
I've become more than a little speptical of the official explanation of what happened that day, why it happened and what it is being used for, but I'm NOT telling anyone here what to think! I'm asking you to form your own opinion.
It might be the single most important ting you'll ever do. Any opinion is welcome.
One more time:
David Ray Griffin A speech by a published writer and professor of theology and philosofy. Serious and factual.
Steven E. JonesA lecture given at a university by a Professor in Physics. Serious and factual.
LOOSE CHANGE
A dramatized documentary made by 3 university students (on a Mac actually)
"Loose Change is a terrifying, masterful, well paced 9/11 conspiracy documentary that puts Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 to absolute shame."
--R.L. Shaffer, DVDFuture
Our Mac's can be used for many things...
Sincerely
Zab the Fab
And why would the perpetrators of this crime provide clues to lead us to it? That doesn't make sense.
I think you're under the impression that terrorists have the same modus operandi as supervillains and Hardy Boys characters. This most likely isn't the case.
Originally posted by Placebo
So you're saying that it's probable that the location of Bin Laden's cave is at a latitude and longitude comprised of ones and nines?
And why would the perpetrators of this crime provide clues to lead us to it? That doesn't make sense.
I think you're under the impression that terrorists have the same modus operandi as supervillains and Hardy Boys characters. This most likely isn't the case.
Hello Placebo
While you are closing in, you are still far from my point.
1) The Bin Laden cave location is escaping my understanding?
2) No one leaves clues for their crime unless they are sick and wants to get caught, probably not the case here. But if they didn't get there by chance, is it a sign that whoever planned the attacks whorship this peagan belief? Is it a signal to a global network of secret societies who is doing what?
Like I wrote in my 3 post (sorry it was not my first post like I wrote earlier) in this thread, the public can always be trusted to ridicule and mock the things that appear outside our circle of concensus. They know we are mostly unable to simply observe and conclude outside the frame of concensus.
I believe there's been ample proof in this thread that even when, what will never be on the news, is presented to "the public" they can always be conted on NOT to connect the dots.
Just like...only few will take an interest large enought to perhaps watch the documentaries I listed and linked to.
It's a lot of work to watch several documentaries and it takes time, I admit that, but if you truely had the big picture of how YOUR civil liberties are being taken away for good, because of attacks that you are not supposed to investigate on your own but simply believe what you are being told, well, you might take the time none the less.
I'm not sure if you are beginning to realize that I'm trying to help everyone here get information that for some reason is not being broadcast to your televisions...
Do we believe everything we watch on the news?
Is there still room for debate on the big issues that change society?
Are we passive onlookers in our world or active thinkers?
Sincerely
Zab the Fab
Originally posted by Zab The Fab
Check out Jordan Maxwell and his teachings, perhaps there indeed is a very well organized society behind the confusion. Those who spread the confusion are perhaps not confused themselves, but are merely using it as a tool to keep the public passive. A confused mind takes no action.
If the other passengers on this ship of fools are not alerted to the imminent threat to our own survival, we'll all go down with the ship.
You and I must understand that to many people, we appear to be crazy conspiracy nuts with no lives. In order to give them a chance to free themselves from the brainwash we must present them with an opportunity to take a look at the evidence a 911 coverup, so they can make up their own mind.
Ofcause we are frustrated that so many believe the official conspiracytheory (especially when in reality they have not seen any evidence, they just feel they have) the fact remains, if they are ever to open their eyes they must be treated with respect and simply given a fair chance to make up their own minds, this time how ever, by looking at both sides of the story, and not just ONLY the official explanation.
People, if you believe in a free country with free speech, civil liberties and if you believe that in a democratic society there should be room for debate, then take a look at the videos below, and simply ask yourself if there is something there that is being kept out of the media, which means away from you.
If you want to know, whan some don't want you to know, then watch below. Us that already know, desperately understand the importance in blowing the whistle on this one.
it's up to you.
Despite all the proof being out there that 911 was either partly or wholly an 'inside job', other factors are preventing people from coming to their senses. These were surely taken into account by the perps:
(1) The greater majority of people, especially here in the US, get their "news information" from a small handful of very large and influential media conglomerates, which have all but imposed a blackout or taboo on 911 facts that don't fit the official story.
(2) Most people would rather not believe that elements within the US government had a partial (or greater) role to play in the planning and execution of the 9-11 attacks. It is too much to bear, and denial is far simpler and much more comfortable: "People in the US government don't do that kind of stuff", or "It can't happen here" (!)
(3) Repetition is King. In other words: "A lie told often enough soon becomes the accepted "truth". Even for many of those who have researched the events of that day and found that the official conspiracy yarn is the biggest crock of bull since Bishop Ussher dated the Earth as approximately 6000 years old, the mantra of "Osama bin Laden and those 19 Arabs being responsible" has been repeated so often. so endlessly, day in, day out, on the radio, tv, newspapers and elsewhere, that even the skeptics have to slap themselves in the face from time to time and keep reminding themselves that reason and sound science cannot and must not get hijacked by conditioning via endless repetition.
EDIT As an afterthought:
(4) "Ownership of the guns of ridicule". The parties who get the big publicity on a accepted story, namely the US government with the unquestioning media in lockstep, will always be the ones who can throw the "conspiracy theorist" label around, and insodoing, ridiculing alternative hypotheses by association with "paranoid conspiracy theory" at a stroke. The notion that the official version is just another conspiracy theory is roundly ignored. This has happened with the 911 attacks and has the mechanism of (1), (2) and (3) to perpetuate it.
(5) Disparity of standards of evidence and proof. The Government tells a story, and people will accept it on blind faith, no matter now flawed, without demanding any rigorous proof. Even blatantly bogus material and contradictory statements appear acceptable to Joe Public. On the other hand, the skeptics are required to present the most exhaustively rigorous, peer-reviewed, battleproof, multicorroborated evidence, (which of course is the right approach). But even that is inadequate for Joe Public. This mechanism is dependent of (2)
...intended neligence...
I think deep within the levels of US government a group of people had an inkling that 9.11 was going to happen. I believe that these people did not intentionally set up the events, but they had enough info that the terrorists were gonna do it. These people, again, deep within the levels of US government agencies were able to "let it slide" enough to let it all happen. Intentional negligence. But within a very very closed circle of people spanning different government agencies and groups. I believe Bush and Rumsfeld didn't know it was going to happen, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Cheney, well, hmm....
So you're saying that it's probable that the location of Bin Laden's cave is at a latitude and longitude comprised of ones and nines?
Wow, that would be hella cool if it were true. Real DaVinci Code stylz.
Originally posted by sunilraman
Originally posted by Placebo
...intended neligence...
I think deep within the levels of US government a group of people had an inkling that 9.11 was going to happen. I believe that these people did not intentionally set up the events, but they had enough info that the terrorists were gonna do it. These people, again, deep within the levels of US government agencies were able to "let it slide" enough to let it all happen. Intentional negligence. But within a very very closed circle of people spanning different government agencies and groups. I believe Bush and Rumsfeld didn't know it was going to happen, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Cheney, well, hmm....
Although I'm sure Bush knew that something was about to go down that morning, I'm quite convinced he wasn't completely in the loop; first, his reaction to Andy Card's famous 5 second whisper was a "blank, glazed over look" combined with a bit of the "deer in the headlamps"... a hybrid of "WTF do I do now?" and "oh my god, they really did do it.. lets hope they got all the loose ends tied up". Had he known absolutely nothing in advance, his reaction would have been to do his duty as commander-in-chief (one would assume), immediately abandon the reading session, quickly explain to the kids and teachers "some very important business has cropped up, but I shall be back soon, and we'll do this again", or similar, and had the entire presidential party get the hell out of the area asap ... but what followed was bizarre, illogical and ran against all secret service presidential detail protocol... they hung him out to dry at that school for almost another 35 minutes, when they should have assumed, while the attacks were ongoing, that the president was a prime and obvious target. The presidents Secret Service detail oddly seemed to know that Bush was in no danger, in contrast to Cheney's case, where they carried him to an underground bunker.
Rumsfeld knew what was going down; but he's getting senile, and he has let out a lapsus lingua or two or three since 911... and Cheney... well that requires a thread of its own.
Originally posted by sammi jo
Although I'm sure Bush knew that something was about to go down that morning, I'm quite convinced he wasn't completely in the loop; first, his reaction to Andy Card's famous 5 second whisper was a "blank, glazed over look" combined with a bit of the "deer in the headlamps"... a hybrid of "WTF do I do now?" and "oh my god, they really did do it.. lets hope they got all the loose ends tied up". Had he known absolutely nothing in advance, his reaction would have been to do his duty as commander-in-chief (one would assume), immediately abandon the reading session, quickly explain to the kids and teachers "some very important business has cropped up, but I shall be back soon, and we'll do this again", or similar, and had the entire presidential party get the hell out of the area asap ... but what followed was bizarre, illogical and ran against all secret service presidential detail protocol... they hung him out to dry at that school for almost another 35 minutes, when they should have assumed, while the attacks were ongoing, that the president was a prime and obvious target. The presidents Secret Service detail oddly seemed to know that Bush was in no danger, in contrast to Cheney's case, where they carried him to an underground bunker.
Rumsfeld knew what was going down; but he's getting senile, and he has let out a lapsus lingua or two or three since 911... and Cheney... well that requires a thread of its own.
The big question: WHY?
For better or worse Zab the Fab is the only one who's been clear on this point- or rather his sources are. No one else seems to have taken a stab at it.
The big question: WHY? For better or worse Zab the Fab is the only one who's been clear on this point- or rather his sources are. No one else seems to have taken a stab at it.
I haven't looked at Zab the Fab's stuff. Honestly, I don't want to, I might find it too disturbing. Ever since it happened (I was in San Francisco at the time, my parents and brother from overseas called and woke me up. They said, do you know what happened?... I turned on the TV, saw the 1st tower already in flames, then, well the rest is history...) As I was saying, ever since it happened, my gut feeling told me all along that there was enough info out around that something BIG was going to go down. Something unprecedented. Every person in every government agency, covert or legit or whatever, would have some reason to either push for more to be done, or less to be done, according to what they believe. At higher levels is where it gets interesting, which way the "higher-ups" pushed it -- as in like, "should we have fighter planes on patrol since 5am that morning for 48hours or something?". A lot of stuff went down that day. We may never know the real truth. It comes down to what you believe. Zab the Fab has some stuff that will form your opinion. As for me, I have mine, I'm happy with it for now.
WHY? You'd have to ask everyone that was remotely involved in the intel pre-9.11 and ask them WHY they chose to do whatever they did pre-9.11.
Here's where I don't quite understand Zab:
I agree that it's entirely possible that 9/11 was caused by negligence or even deliberate planning in the White House. Heck, some new World Order might even be involved. But honestly, where do numers come in?
Originally posted by Placebo
It was rumored that Boston was, but that never materialized.
Here's where I don't quite understand Zab:
I agree that it's entirely possible that 9/11 was caused by negligence or even deliberate planning in the White House. Heck, some new World Order might even be involved. But honestly, where do numers come in?
I agree. In fact long before 9/11 "conspiracy theories" gained the more mainstream position they are now pushing-for I was discussing with close friends many of the discrepancies, etc. involved. I believe that dragging numerology into the discussion really only serves to cloud the issue and turn off people who might otherwise honestly consider what you have to say. As someone else has already pointed out, you could choose almost any number and "discover" statistics and relevant numbers related to 911 that could be manipulated to add up to that. Get 4 or 5 of them and *gasp* it must be connected, it couldn't possibly be a coincidence.
Originally posted by meelash
I agree. In fact long before 9/11 "conspiracy theories" gained the more mainstream position they are now pushing-for I was discussing with close friends many of the discrepancies, etc. involved. I believe that dragging numerology into the discussion really only serves to cloud the issue and turn off people who might otherwise honestly consider what you have to say.
I couldn't agree more. There are already enough impossibilities, improbabilities, inconsistencies and coincidences in the Government's account, without the issue being all muddied still further by getting New Age pseudo-sciences involved.
As someone else has already pointed out, you could choose almost any number and "discover" statistics and relevant numbers related to 911 that could be manipulated to add up to that. Get 4 or 5 of them and *gasp* it must be connected, it couldn't possibly be a coincidence.
Thats how those things "work". Recall the Bible Code and the "prophecies" contained therein? Didn't someone do the same analysis with Moby Dick and find references to future events, using the same methods? Pseudosciences are fatally flawed because of "less than rigorous" analysis, drawing conclusions based upon arbitrariness, and especially, arriving at a preconceived (or convenient to the investigators) conclusion and cherrypicking the evidence to fit that conclusion. The 9-11 Commission's findings have all these hallmarks of pseudoscience, especially as regards the cherrypicking of evidence, and are as a result, fatally flawed.
Didn't the Jehova's Witnesses get all ready for the world to end in 1914... Check this page out, it's rather sobering as far as Christian prediction skills go. Keep in mind most of these are based on these type of number tricks.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrl2.htm
Originally posted by Placebo
I believe that 9/11 was a conspiracy or at least intended neligence. I don't see where numbers come in.
My take on it is that the people responsible for the event have a belief in numbers and symbols, and did it for their own benefit. Lets face it, if one was crazy enough to try something this big, they would have to feel like they have got 'something' on their side. I'm betting that what we are talking about is a group of very powerful, secretive people who manipulate world events to further their own power. They frame their actions in ancient symbols or numbers in a belief that it will ensure their success. Think of it as a religion for the uber-creepy who want immense power. It doesn't have to make sense or add up, it just has give one the belief in their own special powers.
Sorry for the blackout, rough weekend followed by internet problems. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this rather emotional subject.
I'm not here to tell anyone what to think, I'm trying to supply information on these things so you can all make up your own individual opinion on it.
I'm asking what the mathematic probability is that the numbers are there by chance and was not part of the planning?
Let's add one more to the list....
Madrid Marts 03/11/2004 11 Marts 2004 = 03 + 11 + 2004 = 0+3+1+1+2+0+0+4 = 11
Seriously
Zab the Fab
Originally posted by Placebo
I believe that 9/11 was a conspiracy or at least intended neligence. I don't see where numbers come in.
I respect you for telling people what you believe happened that day, and it so happens that we agree, but any opinion is welcome AND respected.
Where do the numbers come in? Well that's the core question that I'm raising here. Some of us take the time to listen to the critics and the sceptics on the official story, and some of us agree that there indeed are a lot of unanswered questions.
Next question would be: "well who did it then?" We wanna know who did it. Someone hurt us bad, someone carried out attacks that changed the world. I'm writing to you all from a country that's right now fighting with USA in Iraq because of 911, or at least so we were told in the beginning by our prime minister who has a remarkable ability to sing along to Bush and Blair despite voters opinions on the subject. ... so who did it? is there any way of telling at all? Are there numerology involved in this? Would they be worried that we could connect the dots... well look at the reaction here in the thread. Has it been established that there are numbers involved? are we still having problems fitting it into our mind? ...and... are they aware of this group-think mentality? did they put it there?
Are numerology starring us in the face, with us as the observing party unable to comprehend it's meaning? ...who would use numerology in the planning of terror events? doesn't it sound "far out" (far outside the circle of concensus) ?
I wonder myself.
Sincerely
Zab the Fab