I know we arent supposed to talk about stuff like this but you can not leave a post so blindly ignorant like this.
Im sorry but this post is ridiculos, you clearly do not know what is going on in the middle east. The american news loves to put the terrorist spin on everything to make your president justified for raging illegal wars.
The real terrorists out there is the Israli government. I would stop reading and believeing everything the american press has to say. Appleinsider excluded of course.
Politics are for another board, they have no place here.
Am I the only one who is afraid Apple might not use Conroe? The Merom seems destined for the mini/Book/Book Pro and Woodcrest is expected for xTower/Xserve.
That would seemingly leave the iMac for the Conroe to go in, but there are two reasons I can see why the iMac might also go Merom.
First, as I understand it the Conroe is closer to the G5 in terms of generated heat. The iMac with Yonah is almost "silent" and placing a Conroe in it could lead to more fan use/noise. This reason I think Apple could probably solve.
Second, the MacBook Pro. IIRC, the consumer iMac has always* been a step behind the pro laptop processor-wise to distance the pro/consumer machines. (* not counting the iMac going to G5 and the PB stuck with a G4) Now that Apple has the processors, they can have the iMac a step behind the MBP again with slower Meroms in the iMac and Faster Meroms in the MBP...
Am I the only one who is afraid Apple might not use Conroe? The Merom seems destined for the mini/Book/Book Pro and Woodcrest is expected for xTower/Xserve.
That would seemingly leave the iMac for the Conroe to go in, but there are two reasons I can see why the iMac might also go Merom.
First, as I understand it the Conroe is closer to the G5 in terms of generated heat. The iMac with Yonah is almost "silent" and placing a Conroe in it could lead to more fan use/noise. This reason I think Apple could probably solve.
Second, the MacBook Pro. IIRC, the consumer iMac has always* been a step behind the pro laptop processor-wise to distance the pro/consumer machines. (* not counting the iMac going to G5 and the PB stuck with a G4) Now that Apple has the processors, they can have the iMac a step behind the MBP again with slower Meroms in the iMac and Faster Meroms in the MBP...
I think that the iMac would stay with the Yonah instead of going to the Morem so that Apple does not run into any supply issues with the laptop demand. There is at least one speed bump in the Yonah line that could take the iMacs up to 2.33 Ghz. The question then is where does the Conroe go, they almost have to release something with it unless they want bad press generated about Apple not keeping up with the Jonses after their switch to Intel.
I think the iMac will get the same processors as the MacBook Pros.
Why? I think the pro/consumer distinction is separate for desktops and notebooks. If the Mac Pros have Xeon Woodcrest, then the iMacs can have very fast Meroms. The MacBook Pros can also have the same Meroms - the price differential arises from mobility, not speed. Also, if Dell and HP are selling desktops with Conroe or Merom, Apple will have to do so too.
So for Christmas shopping, I think iMacs and MBPs will have higher-end Meroms. MacBooks will have higher-end Yonahs or lower-end Meroms.
It seems that people forget that, last january at MWSF06, the Yonah iMac was introduced sporting a 1.83-2.0Ghz processor while the MBP was introduced with a 1.67-1.83Ghz processor.
(Eventually when the MBP shipped it got faster chips, but that's another story)
I doubt the iMac will not use Conroe.
Conroe can be used in a lowcost ($1,499-1,799) Mac Pro and the iMac.
"Criple" the iMac by using Merom is bad for sales and makes the iMac unnecessary more expensive.
People rather pay $100 less, have a more powerfull computer and hear a whisper of a fan.
For the MBP Merom is a very good option.
It will take a while though, before it trickles down to the MacBook and Mac mini.
The Core 2 Duos with the 2MB L2 cache are lower cost chips that may well be used in updated iMacs. The only issue is the mobo since the Conroes use a different chipset. It'd definitely be worth it to go with the new platform since the iMac could go from a notebook's 667 MHz bus speed to 1066 MHz. There is the heat issue, of course, since the Merom has a TDP of 35W while Conroe is at 65W. Average usage would be far less.
Apple may wish to keep the iMac enclosure longer and stick with a modified Napa chipset and go with the Merom to avoid cost and heat issues.
Maybe the Conroe will be used in low end Mac Pros while the top of the line quad gets Woodcrest.
Much as I'd like to see the iMac become more like a powerful, low cost desktop, it might continue to be an immobile portable, so to speak.
"Criple" the iMac by using Merom is bad for sales and makes the iMac unnecessary more expensive.
People rather pay $100 less, have a more powerfull computer and hear a whisper of a fan.
There is that often used pejorative word again.
I'd prefer Apple to use Conroe over Merom in the iMac. But in reality Merom would be a perfectly legitimate trade for a bit of performance over heat in a small enclosure.
How do you know Conroe would only produce a whisper of fan noise. Under heavy load it very well could be a wind tunnel.
But like I said I would much prefer they use Conroe.
Hope Gar is right. If Mac Pros all get woodcrest then iMac will likely get conroe. If, as many have suggested, the Mac Pros have an entry level configuration with conroe then iMacs may get Merom so as to separate lines. I hope this doesn't happen. Looks like even the 1.8 ghz conroe will be a good chip. The faster conroes look like they'll be awesome.
The Core 2 Duos with the 2MB L2 cache are lower cost chips that may well be used in updated iMacs. The only issue is the mobo since the Conroes use a different chipset. It'd definitely be worth it to go with the new platform since the iMac could go from a notebook's 667 MHz bus speed to 1066 MHz. There is the heat issue, of course, since the Merom has a TDP of 35W while Conroe is at 65W. Average usage would be far less.
Apple may wish to keep the iMac enclosure longer and stick with a modified Napa chipset and go with the Merom to avoid cost and heat issues.
I think iMac can take Conroe without changing the enclosure. What was the TDP of the 1.9 and 2.1GHz G5s used in the G5 iSight iMac? I thought the word is that was very quiet. The cooling system was changed with the enclosure redesign so that it wasn't so noisy like it was with pre-iSight G5 iMac.
If conroe goes in the iMac, I predict that my wife's pc will have an 'accident'.
I hear ya...If a new iMac with Conroe gets released anytime in August I'll be ordering it the day it becomes available to replace my mum's old pc. If a new nano shows up for me to get free (I'm a student) that'll be the icing on the cake.
I think iMac can take Conroe without changing the enclosure. What was the TDP of the 1.9 and 2.1GHz G5s used in the G5 iSight iMac? I thought the word is that was very quiet. The cooling system was changed with the enclosure redesign so that it wasn't so noisy like it was with pre-iSight G5 iMac.
Don't bet on a Conroe iMac just yet. The G5s used in the iMacs are more or less in the same class as Conroe from a power consumption viewpoint, and they gave a lot of heat and noise issues. The Yonah iMac is what this machine was intended to be. Apple knows this.
Don't bet on a Conroe iMac just yet. The G5s used in the iMacs are more or less in the same class as Conroe from a power consumption viewpoint, and they gave a lot of heat and noise issues. The Yonah iMac is what this machine was intended to be. Apple knows this.
But then again they could have a new enclosure to go with the new chip and motherboard waiting in the wings for Conroe's release. Fact is we just don't know. I'm just hoping that my wife gets a new job she is being considered for and a new iMac comes out around the same time. Of course I should wait till school starts and my sons Daycare bill is eliminated.
I don't see why Apple wouldn't put the Conroe in the iMac. I read a very good article (found it through Digg) the other day about Intel's chips that have been or will be released this year and it made great arguments for putting the Woodcrests in all but the lowest level Mac Pro's. The lowest Mac Pro would get a Conroe as would the iMac's. The lowest level Mac Pro would essentially be an iMac in a different enclosure for people that want expandablility.
The lowest Mac Pro would get a Conroe as would the iMac's. The lowest level Mac Pro would essentially be an iMac in a different enclosure for people that want expandablility.
Have you ever seen in person how huge is the volume difference between the iMac and the Power Mac enclosures? Then you will understand why the Power Mac can digest not only one Conroe but two dual core G5s while the iMac will struggle with the fans to keep temperatures down with just one Conroe.
The Power Mac can just handle the heat of almost anything you throw in it. But not the iMac. It is a very tight package.
When Apple was using Motorola and IBM PPC chips, with no competition, they had the ability to "hold back" certain speeds and create artificial differences between their different product lines.
The entire PC world is ready for the Core 2 Duo series of chips. The only laptops that will still be using Yonah 6 months from now will be the super cheap sub-$1000 market that Apple generally doesn't like to compete in. And every desktop being built by Dell is going to be using Conroe or Woodcrest chips, again with the possible exception of the super-cheap sub-$500 desktops.
Apple sells all their machines at basically $1000 and up (Mac mini excluded), and if they don't switch to Merom/Conroe/Woodcrest entirely before the end of this year, they will be getting flack from technology journalists (and we tech-geeks also) for being behind the times and overpriced for what they are offering.
The old "Apple marketing tactics" don't work after this switch to Intel chips. Apple isn't competing in a vacuum anymore...they need to be competitive with the rest of the PC industry as a whole.
Not predictions, just logical assumptions of what the next MINIMUM Mac upgrades will be:
Mac mini: Upgrade from 1.5 Solo (Yonah) to 1.66 Dual (Merom).
Mac mini: Upgrade from 1.66 Dual (Yonah) to 1.8 Dual (Merom).
MacBook: Upgrade from 1.83 Dual (Yonah) to 2.0 Dual (Merom).
MacBook: Upgrade from 2.0 Dual (Yonah) to 2.16 Dual (Merom).
MacBook Pro: Upgrade from 2.0 Dual (Yonah) to 2.16 Dual (Merom).
MacBook Pro: Upgrade from 2.16 Dual (Yonah) to 2.33 Dual (Merom).
iMac: Upgrade from 1.8 Dual (Yonah) to 2.13 Dual (Conroe).
iMac: Upgrade from 2.0 Dual (Yonah) to 2.4 Dual (Conroe).
Why do I make these assumptions? Because each of these upgrades will cost Apple pretty much EXACTLY what they paid for the previous Yonah chips. In fact, the switch from Yonah to Conroe in the iMac costs Apple about $20 less on the 17" and $20 more on the 20", but with significantly higher performance. Apple could go with 1.86/2.13 for the iMac instead of 2.13/2.4 if they wanted to lower the iMac costs. But at the same price, the faster chips make more sense.
The idea that Apple can just ride Yonah until 2007 on ANY of it's product lines, I believe, is a big mistake in the new Intel world they are living in. Let's hope the minimum specs I listed above arrive well before the end of 2006, as they should.
But then again they could have a new enclosure to go with the new chip and motherboard waiting in the wings for Conroe's release. Fact is we just don't know.
No, we don't know. That's actually my position. If the iMac is going to get a Conroe, then a change in the form factor is in order. The minimal they can do is to leave out the PSU, which is responsible for much heat in the machine. But I cannot know if it is sufficient.
Quote:
I'm just hoping that my wife gets a new job she is being considered for and a new iMac comes out around the same time.
I wish you good luck for the new job. That's the difficult part. A new iMac is the easy part, once you have secured a job.
Comments
Originally posted by xUKHCx
I know we arent supposed to talk about stuff like this but you can not leave a post so blindly ignorant like this.
Im sorry but this post is ridiculos, you clearly do not know what is going on in the middle east. The american news loves to put the terrorist spin on everything to make your president justified for raging illegal wars.
The real terrorists out there is the Israli government. I would stop reading and believeing everything the american press has to say. Appleinsider excluded of course.
Politics are for another board, they have no place here.
Thanks.
That would seemingly leave the iMac for the Conroe to go in, but there are two reasons I can see why the iMac might also go Merom.
First, as I understand it the Conroe is closer to the G5 in terms of generated heat. The iMac with Yonah is almost "silent" and placing a Conroe in it could lead to more fan use/noise. This reason I think Apple could probably solve.
Second, the MacBook Pro. IIRC, the consumer iMac has always* been a step behind the pro laptop processor-wise to distance the pro/consumer machines. (* not counting the iMac going to G5 and the PB stuck with a G4) Now that Apple has the processors, they can have the iMac a step behind the MBP again with slower Meroms in the iMac and Faster Meroms in the MBP...
Originally posted by opuscroakus
Am I the only one who is afraid Apple might not use Conroe? The Merom seems destined for the mini/Book/Book Pro and Woodcrest is expected for xTower/Xserve.
That would seemingly leave the iMac for the Conroe to go in, but there are two reasons I can see why the iMac might also go Merom.
First, as I understand it the Conroe is closer to the G5 in terms of generated heat. The iMac with Yonah is almost "silent" and placing a Conroe in it could lead to more fan use/noise. This reason I think Apple could probably solve.
Second, the MacBook Pro. IIRC, the consumer iMac has always* been a step behind the pro laptop processor-wise to distance the pro/consumer machines. (* not counting the iMac going to G5 and the PB stuck with a G4) Now that Apple has the processors, they can have the iMac a step behind the MBP again with slower Meroms in the iMac and Faster Meroms in the MBP...
I think that the iMac would stay with the Yonah instead of going to the Morem so that Apple does not run into any supply issues with the laptop demand. There is at least one speed bump in the Yonah line that could take the iMacs up to 2.33 Ghz. The question then is where does the Conroe go, they almost have to release something with it unless they want bad press generated about Apple not keeping up with the Jonses after their switch to Intel.
Why? I think the pro/consumer distinction is separate for desktops and notebooks. If the Mac Pros have Xeon Woodcrest, then the iMacs can have very fast Meroms. The MacBook Pros can also have the same Meroms - the price differential arises from mobility, not speed. Also, if Dell and HP are selling desktops with Conroe or Merom, Apple will have to do so too.
So for Christmas shopping, I think iMacs and MBPs will have higher-end Meroms. MacBooks will have higher-end Yonahs or lower-end Meroms.
(Eventually when the MBP shipped it got faster chips, but that's another story)
I doubt the iMac will not use Conroe.
Conroe can be used in a lowcost ($1,499-1,799) Mac Pro and the iMac.
"Criple" the iMac by using Merom is bad for sales and makes the iMac unnecessary more expensive.
People rather pay $100 less, have a more powerfull computer and hear a whisper of a fan.
For the MBP Merom is a very good option.
It will take a while though, before it trickles down to the MacBook and Mac mini.
Apple may wish to keep the iMac enclosure longer and stick with a modified Napa chipset and go with the Merom to avoid cost and heat issues.
Maybe the Conroe will be used in low end Mac Pros while the top of the line quad gets Woodcrest.
Much as I'd like to see the iMac become more like a powerful, low cost desktop, it might continue to be an immobile portable, so to speak.
"Criple" the iMac by using Merom is bad for sales and makes the iMac unnecessary more expensive.
People rather pay $100 less, have a more powerfull computer and hear a whisper of a fan.
There is that often used pejorative word again.
I'd prefer Apple to use Conroe over Merom in the iMac. But in reality Merom would be a perfectly legitimate trade for a bit of performance over heat in a small enclosure.
How do you know Conroe would only produce a whisper of fan noise. Under heavy load it very well could be a wind tunnel.
But like I said I would much prefer they use Conroe.
Originally posted by Rolo
Apple may wish to keep the iMac enclosure longer and stick with a modified Napa chipset and go with the Merom to avoid cost and heat issues.
NO!!
Originally posted by backtomac
NO!!
Originally posted by Rolo
[B I think it'd be a big seller, too. [/B]
If conroe goes in the iMac, I predict that my wife's pc will have an 'accident'.
Originally posted by Rolo
The Core 2 Duos with the 2MB L2 cache are lower cost chips that may well be used in updated iMacs. The only issue is the mobo since the Conroes use a different chipset. It'd definitely be worth it to go with the new platform since the iMac could go from a notebook's 667 MHz bus speed to 1066 MHz. There is the heat issue, of course, since the Merom has a TDP of 35W while Conroe is at 65W. Average usage would be far less.
Apple may wish to keep the iMac enclosure longer and stick with a modified Napa chipset and go with the Merom to avoid cost and heat issues.
I think iMac can take Conroe without changing the enclosure. What was the TDP of the 1.9 and 2.1GHz G5s used in the G5 iSight iMac? I thought the word is that was very quiet. The cooling system was changed with the enclosure redesign so that it wasn't so noisy like it was with pre-iSight G5 iMac.
Originally posted by backtomac
If conroe goes in the iMac, I predict that my wife's pc will have an 'accident'.
I hear ya...If a new iMac with Conroe gets released anytime in August I'll be ordering it the day it becomes available to replace my mum's old pc. If a new nano shows up for me to get free (I'm a student) that'll be the icing on the cake.
Originally posted by JeffDM
I think iMac can take Conroe without changing the enclosure. What was the TDP of the 1.9 and 2.1GHz G5s used in the G5 iSight iMac? I thought the word is that was very quiet. The cooling system was changed with the enclosure redesign so that it wasn't so noisy like it was with pre-iSight G5 iMac.
Don't bet on a Conroe iMac just yet. The G5s used in the iMacs are more or less in the same class as Conroe from a power consumption viewpoint, and they gave a lot of heat and noise issues. The Yonah iMac is what this machine was intended to be. Apple knows this.
Originally posted by PB
Don't bet on a Conroe iMac just yet. The G5s used in the iMacs are more or less in the same class as Conroe from a power consumption viewpoint, and they gave a lot of heat and noise issues. The Yonah iMac is what this machine was intended to be. Apple knows this.
But then again they could have a new enclosure to go with the new chip and motherboard waiting in the wings for Conroe's release. Fact is we just don't know. I'm just hoping that my wife gets a new job she is being considered for and a new iMac comes out around the same time. Of course I should wait till school starts and my sons Daycare bill is eliminated.
Originally posted by jdcfsu
The lowest Mac Pro would get a Conroe as would the iMac's. The lowest level Mac Pro would essentially be an iMac in a different enclosure for people that want expandablility.
Have you ever seen in person how huge is the volume difference between the iMac and the Power Mac enclosures? Then you will understand why the Power Mac can digest not only one Conroe but two dual core G5s while the iMac will struggle with the fans to keep temperatures down with just one Conroe.
The Power Mac can just handle the heat of almost anything you throw in it. But not the iMac. It is a very tight package.
The entire PC world is ready for the Core 2 Duo series of chips. The only laptops that will still be using Yonah 6 months from now will be the super cheap sub-$1000 market that Apple generally doesn't like to compete in. And every desktop being built by Dell is going to be using Conroe or Woodcrest chips, again with the possible exception of the super-cheap sub-$500 desktops.
Apple sells all their machines at basically $1000 and up (Mac mini excluded), and if they don't switch to Merom/Conroe/Woodcrest entirely before the end of this year, they will be getting flack from technology journalists (and we tech-geeks also) for being behind the times and overpriced for what they are offering.
The old "Apple marketing tactics" don't work after this switch to Intel chips. Apple isn't competing in a vacuum anymore...they need to be competitive with the rest of the PC industry as a whole.
Not predictions, just logical assumptions of what the next MINIMUM Mac upgrades will be:
Mac mini: Upgrade from 1.5 Solo (Yonah) to 1.66 Dual (Merom).
Mac mini: Upgrade from 1.66 Dual (Yonah) to 1.8 Dual (Merom).
MacBook: Upgrade from 1.83 Dual (Yonah) to 2.0 Dual (Merom).
MacBook: Upgrade from 2.0 Dual (Yonah) to 2.16 Dual (Merom).
MacBook Pro: Upgrade from 2.0 Dual (Yonah) to 2.16 Dual (Merom).
MacBook Pro: Upgrade from 2.16 Dual (Yonah) to 2.33 Dual (Merom).
iMac: Upgrade from 1.8 Dual (Yonah) to 2.13 Dual (Conroe).
iMac: Upgrade from 2.0 Dual (Yonah) to 2.4 Dual (Conroe).
Why do I make these assumptions? Because each of these upgrades will cost Apple pretty much EXACTLY what they paid for the previous Yonah chips. In fact, the switch from Yonah to Conroe in the iMac costs Apple about $20 less on the 17" and $20 more on the 20", but with significantly higher performance. Apple could go with 1.86/2.13 for the iMac instead of 2.13/2.4 if they wanted to lower the iMac costs. But at the same price, the faster chips make more sense.
The idea that Apple can just ride Yonah until 2007 on ANY of it's product lines, I believe, is a big mistake in the new Intel world they are living in. Let's hope the minimum specs I listed above arrive well before the end of 2006, as they should.
Originally posted by JCG
But then again they could have a new enclosure to go with the new chip and motherboard waiting in the wings for Conroe's release. Fact is we just don't know.
No, we don't know. That's actually my position. If the iMac is going to get a Conroe, then a change in the form factor is in order. The minimal they can do is to leave out the PSU, which is responsible for much heat in the machine. But I cannot know if it is sufficient.
I'm just hoping that my wife gets a new job she is being considered for and a new iMac comes out around the same time.
I wish you good luck for the new job.