Yeah from what I've read that should be a nice upgrade and perhaps explains the delay in the refresh. But if all they do is up the Yonah clock speeds then Apple should have done this 2 months ago.
I dissagree.
In that case the iMac should have had an upgrade first.
Since that is not the case and Apple seems to wait for the Core2Duo to arrive for their iMac upgrade, the Mac mini hasn't been updated 2 months ago.
Maybe we see a pricedrop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjteix
The optional 7200rpm drive is an excellent idea (it's been available for pro notebooks for a long time...).
As you said in your post: it's a pro notebook option.
Quote:
Having all (or most of) the Core Duo speeds available would be good for 2 reasons: more choices for the customer and a good way to get rid of Core Duo chips inventory if MacBooks, MacBook Pros and iMacs get Core 2 Duo cpus in the next weeks.
1.83GHz= +$50, 2.00Ghz= +$100, 2.16GHz= +$250, (2.33GHz= +$450, but unlikely)
I don't expect the MacBook will get the Core2Duo at the same time the MBP will get it.
Pro features against integrated GPU won't cut it at a $500 price difference, the MacBook is too attractive for that.
Non or basic CPU options for the Mac mini keeps the price low. More options means more inventory, not less.
In that case the iMac should have had an upgrade first.
Since that is not the case and Apple seems to wait for the Core2Duo to arrive for their iMac upgrade, the Mac mini hasn't been updated 2 months ago.
Maybe we see a pricedrop.
As you said in your post: it's a pro notebook option.
I don't expect the MacBook will get the Core2Duo at the same time the MBP will get it.
Pro features against integrated GPU won't cut it at a $500 price difference, the MacBook is too attractive for that.
Non or basic CPU options for the Mac mini keeps the price low. More options means more inventory, not less.
I see your point. iMac is in need of some upgrade action as well. If Apple is going to wait much longer they ought to go on ahead and at least give them a speed bump while they wait for core 2 chips. However I'm starting to see core 2 systems pop up at best buy and office depot so I'm not sure what Apple is waiting for.
I don't expect the MacBook will get the Core2Duo at the same time the MBP will get it.
Pro features against integrated GPU won't cut it at a $500 price difference, the MacBook is too attractive for that.
Well I hope they don't cripple the Macbook just to make the MBP look better. Instead they should just add more to the MBP. As it stands right now it already needs a few more things to compete against other PC's in it's price range.
The MBP, esp the 15", needs FW800 and the fastest DL DVD burner available. That's just for starters. It's looking like eSATA is not taking off like people thought it would...
The MBP, esp the 15", needs FW800 and the fastest DL DVD burner available. That's just for starters. It's looking like eSATA is not taking off like people thought it would...
In the PC world it's taking off. Many of the newer motherboards offer eSATA. It's only a matter of adding the actual connector to the case. Then you use one of the available SATA ports on the motherboard and connect it to the case using a cheap SATA cable. In the Mac Pro, for instance, you could get one of these and use two of the onboard SATA ports and voilÃ*, instant eSATA. Then you only have to buy something like this, use any SATA hard disk and you're all set. Boot Camp now allows installing Windows on a separate internal hard drive. Since the Mac would not know that the drive is connected externally, you could install Windows on that drive. Apple could cheaply add this functionality to any of its Macs, since it's just a matter of adding a cheap connector to whatever case they use. I could probably drill a hole on the back of the Mac mini case to get eSATA, assuming that the motherboard has an available SATA port.
Edit: The Mac Pro doesn't have conventional SATA ports so my suggested solution would not work with it. eSATA could be added with a controller card using a 4x lane.
I think the best thing that can happen for a media Mac is that it goes to the ~17" wide enclosure so it can be stacked with other A/V equipment. Then that would allow you to have room for a couple pull-out hard drives on the front, and you get plenty of room on the back for tuners. Otherwise, stacking components on a tower isn't going to fit well in many entertainment centers. There's enough goof-ball stuff like game consoles that don't fit very well in an entertainment center, if Apple gets serious about making a media computer, I hope they do this.
This is all my opinion and my suggestion. I really don't think they will do this, I just wish and hope they do.
I don't think either. Apple is thinking very differently from other consumer
electronic manufacturers and how a consumer device have to look. See iPod HiFi,
just to give one example.
Apple surely won't release any device that fits into the average TV shelf.
I am pretty much sure, that Apple hates the TV shelf, with all the clutter
that that particular furniture implies.
Think different. Think iPod Hifi with Video capabilities implemented
Think iPod Hifi combined with Hermstedt and Bose, only better
Apple surely won't release any device that fits into the average TV shelf.
I am pretty much sure, that Apple hates the TV shelf, with all the clutter
that that particular furniture implies.
I think that clutter is likely bad because too many companies come up with weird form factors in the first place, particularly the game consoles. For media center use, the mini is more like the game console type clutter than a neat stack of gear.
I think that clutter is likely bad because too many companies come up with weird form factors in the first place, particularly the game consoles. For media center use, the mini is more like the game console type clutter than a neat stack of gear.
Apple surely won't release any device that fits into the average TV shelf.
I am pretty much sure, that Apple hates the TV shelf, with all the clutter
that that particular furniture implies.
Think different. Think iPod Hifi with Video capabilities implemented
Think iPod Hifi combined with Hermstedt and Bose, only better
and Apple. There you go. My 2cents.
Hmm ... well, I don't own an iPod and don't think I ever will. Maybe when they get the combo between phone and iPod down right. iPod Hi-Fi is something that will never sell in quantity, and will never give the experience of a good surround sound home theatre setup. I've been playing with the mini as a media center, but it's still missing software that doesn't require a keyboard and mouse to set up properly. Front Row needs a plug-in API, and all the other OSX media center software alternatives have their own issues. Something audio component size would be nice, but if you're that serious about it, you can probably just get an Xserve, put a good graphics card in it and rack mount everything. As for the mini as a media center, it's biggest deficiency is its 2.5" drive, but you can always get a FireWire drive with a nice case.
In a well designed home theatre setup, one might be able to hide everything away except the mini connected to other components via FireWire or gigabit Ethernet, but the hardware and software aren't there for it yet.
As for the mini as a media center, it's biggest deficiency is its 2.5" drive, but you can always get a FireWire drive with a nice case.
In a well designed home theatre setup, one might be able to hide everything away except the mini connected to other components via FireWire or gigabit Ethernet, but the hardware and software aren't there for it yet.
Amen (except for the not owning an iPod part). Here's hoping for MWSF07.
I don't care if they have a media center per se. I just want software (and a remote--whether Apple makes it or not--with more functionality...maybe a few softkeys) that can make it all happen: FR2.0 as part of iLife07 with plug-in ability (or even drag and drop folders) so that it can play nice with others (el gato, games, etc); a seperate iTunes-for-videos app that supports burning video playlists in iDVD and ripping content from BDs and HD-DVDs; changing iDVD (and its name) to support BDs and HD-DVDs; and maybe a few other small tweaks.
Come to think of it, instead of a new iTunes-for-videos app, iMovie's functionality could just be extended a bit to add cataloging features (with h264, why can't we just leave high quality copies on our gargantuan drives?). It would add to the complexity quite a bit...
Nah. Nevermind. It makes more sense to keep the creation and editing app separate from the playing and cataloging (and ripping/buying) app, as apple does with iTunes (playing/cataloging/ripping/buying) and Garage Band (creation/editing).
Hmmm. Maybe Quicktime? Transform/extend it into a BD/HDDVD ripper, movie catalog, and movie store portal. Just add a few buttons and a drawer... (It's already cross-platform...)
You've been kinda quiet on the debate over a mid range headless mac and changes due (necessary?) for iMac and mini. I sure you're pretty happy about the new Mac Pro but what do you about these lesser machines?
You've been kinda quiet on the debate over a mid range headless mac and changes due (necessary?) for iMac and mini. I sure you're pretty happy about the new Mac Pro but what do you about these lesser machines?
First, yes I'm much happier with the Mac Pro than the older G5 versions, though I wish that Apple had put a slot in the side cover, and made the four drives hot pluggable. That would have been the cat's meow. They are almost there!
I would LOVE to see a mini tower with one Conroe, or later with the single socket version of the Woodcrest that Intel will have later on.
One dual width graphics slot, ala the Mac Pro (why don't more PC's do that?). Two extra slots, they can be 1 lane for cost purposes (almost no boards for the consumer other than a graphics board needs more than the one 256MBs lane).
Four memory slots. More than enough.
Two HD's, and one optical slot.
The usual complement of I/O connectors.
I think this would be super. Apple could do it for around $1,000 to $1,200.
The concern about the cannibalizing of the iMac line is overrated, I believe.
The Mini is a much tougher proposition. There have been so many proposals that it is really difficult to understand just what is viable at the price Apple needs.
Many of the ideas would bring the price close to $1,000, and that's just not feasable.
The only real change Apple can make now without raising the price is to go to the Merom. The Conroe is simply too power greedy for such a small unit, and gives off too much heat.
They can do the usual updates to the HD, and possibly the memory, but I can't see anything else right now, unless it is that port I mentioned earlier here, or on another AI thread. That was to connect to an under the Mini unit to turn it into a full audio/video control center. Something I don't see Apple as being able to do to the Mini itself.
What I would like to see for the iMac is, first of all, going back to a case design that was more accessable, with an easy to attach VESA mount adapter. We were thinking of getting one for our kitchen. I designed the wall cutout to make it sit flush when not in use, but able to be pulled out and swiveled around when needed. I even designed the mounting arm. Then Apple put the kibosh on the whole thing. Sigh! Very disappointing.
I do think a Conroe would work well here. Even this smaller case design they are using now worked for the G5 they had, which used at least as much power, and put out at least as much heat as the 2.67 Conroe. Possibly more, as the G5 was rated at about 65 watts as well, but that was not Total max power as Intel rates its chips, but rather average power, the way IBM rates its chips. Possibly an 80 watt Extreme Conroe, or a 3GHz Woodcrest would work as well, though the Conroe would cost $1,000 in bin quantities, and the Woodcrest about $867.
I would like to see at least an ATI 1800 chip or Nvidia equivalent.
IGB RAM with two slots. More ports.
And, every Apple machine should have at least one E SATA port.
Apple has to do something here. While their laptop sales have been going up, their desktop sales have been going down
By the way, I saw in the NYTimes this morning that they had the biggest laptop marketshare leaders. Here are the numbers:
The concern about the cannibalizing of the iMac line is overrated, I believe.
Yeah, so long as they get the same profit margin on a product that costs about as much, I don't see the problem.
Quote:
By the way, I saw in the NYTimes this morning that they had the biggest laptop marketshare leaders. Here are the numbers:
Dell:........40.1%
Toshiba:..13.1
Hp:..........13
GTW:.......7.1
Compac:..6.9
Apple???
It's very weird that HP and Compaq are separated like that, the time that was appropriate was before they merged. Still, the numbers that someone claimed for the UK (~12%) doesn't seem to apply to the US.
Comments
Yeah from what I've read that should be a nice upgrade and perhaps explains the delay in the refresh. But if all they do is up the Yonah clock speeds then Apple should have done this 2 months ago.
I dissagree.
In that case the iMac should have had an upgrade first.
Since that is not the case and Apple seems to wait for the Core2Duo to arrive for their iMac upgrade, the Mac mini hasn't been updated 2 months ago.
Maybe we see a pricedrop.
The optional 7200rpm drive is an excellent idea (it's been available for pro notebooks for a long time...).
As you said in your post: it's a pro notebook option.
Having all (or most of) the Core Duo speeds available would be good for 2 reasons: more choices for the customer and a good way to get rid of Core Duo chips inventory if MacBooks, MacBook Pros and iMacs get Core 2 Duo cpus in the next weeks.
1.83GHz= +$50, 2.00Ghz= +$100, 2.16GHz= +$250, (2.33GHz= +$450, but unlikely)
I don't expect the MacBook will get the Core2Duo at the same time the MBP will get it.
Pro features against integrated GPU won't cut it at a $500 price difference, the MacBook is too attractive for that.
Non or basic CPU options for the Mac mini keeps the price low. More options means more inventory, not less.
I dissagree.
In that case the iMac should have had an upgrade first.
Since that is not the case and Apple seems to wait for the Core2Duo to arrive for their iMac upgrade, the Mac mini hasn't been updated 2 months ago.
Maybe we see a pricedrop.
As you said in your post: it's a pro notebook option.
I don't expect the MacBook will get the Core2Duo at the same time the MBP will get it.
Pro features against integrated GPU won't cut it at a $500 price difference, the MacBook is too attractive for that.
Non or basic CPU options for the Mac mini keeps the price low. More options means more inventory, not less.
I see your point. iMac is in need of some upgrade action as well. If Apple is going to wait much longer they ought to go on ahead and at least give them a speed bump while they wait for core 2 chips. However I'm starting to see core 2 systems pop up at best buy and office depot so I'm not sure what Apple is waiting for.
(I hope)
I don't expect the MacBook will get the Core2Duo at the same time the MBP will get it.
Pro features against integrated GPU won't cut it at a $500 price difference, the MacBook is too attractive for that.
Well I hope they don't cripple the Macbook just to make the MBP look better. Instead they should just add more to the MBP. As it stands right now it already needs a few more things to compete against other PC's in it's price range.
/Random thought.
Guys, the Mac mini will be updated on Tuesday.
Oh yeah, why Tuesday?
The MBP, esp the 15", needs FW800 and the fastest DL DVD burner available. That's just for starters. It's looking like eSATA is not taking off like people thought it would...
In the PC world it's taking off. Many of the newer motherboards offer eSATA. It's only a matter of adding the actual connector to the case. Then you use one of the available SATA ports on the motherboard and connect it to the case using a cheap SATA cable. In the Mac Pro, for instance, you could get one of these and use two of the onboard SATA ports and voilÃ*, instant eSATA. Then you only have to buy something like this, use any SATA hard disk and you're all set. Boot Camp now allows installing Windows on a separate internal hard drive. Since the Mac would not know that the drive is connected externally, you could install Windows on that drive. Apple could cheaply add this functionality to any of its Macs, since it's just a matter of adding a cheap connector to whatever case they use. I could probably drill a hole on the back of the Mac mini case to get eSATA, assuming that the motherboard has an available SATA port.
Edit: The Mac Pro doesn't have conventional SATA ports so my suggested solution would not work with it. eSATA could be added with a controller card using a 4x lane.
Yes, though that's another cable or two.
I think the best thing that can happen for a media Mac is that it goes to the ~17" wide enclosure so it can be stacked with other A/V equipment. Then that would allow you to have room for a couple pull-out hard drives on the front, and you get plenty of room on the back for tuners. Otherwise, stacking components on a tower isn't going to fit well in many entertainment centers. There's enough goof-ball stuff like game consoles that don't fit very well in an entertainment center, if Apple gets serious about making a media computer, I hope they do this.
This is all my opinion and my suggestion. I really don't think they will do this, I just wish and hope they do.
I don't think either. Apple is thinking very differently from other consumer
electronic manufacturers and how a consumer device have to look. See iPod HiFi,
just to give one example.
Apple surely won't release any device that fits into the average TV shelf.
I am pretty much sure, that Apple hates the TV shelf, with all the clutter
that that particular furniture implies.
Think different. Think iPod Hifi with Video capabilities implemented
Think iPod Hifi combined with Hermstedt and Bose, only better
and Apple.
Apple surely won't release any device that fits into the average TV shelf.
I am pretty much sure, that Apple hates the TV shelf, with all the clutter
that that particular furniture implies.
I think that clutter is likely bad because too many companies come up with weird form factors in the first place, particularly the game consoles. For media center use, the mini is more like the game console type clutter than a neat stack of gear.
I think that clutter is likely bad because too many companies come up with weird form factors in the first place, particularly the game consoles. For media center use, the mini is more like the game console type clutter than a neat stack of gear.
You hit that nail right on the head.
Apple surely won't release any device that fits into the average TV shelf.
I am pretty much sure, that Apple hates the TV shelf, with all the clutter
that that particular furniture implies.
Think different. Think iPod Hifi with Video capabilities implemented
Think iPod Hifi combined with Hermstedt and Bose, only better
and Apple.
Hmm ... well, I don't own an iPod and don't think I ever will. Maybe when they get the combo between phone and iPod down right. iPod Hi-Fi is something that will never sell in quantity, and will never give the experience of a good surround sound home theatre setup. I've been playing with the mini as a media center, but it's still missing software that doesn't require a keyboard and mouse to set up properly. Front Row needs a plug-in API, and all the other OSX media center software alternatives have their own issues. Something audio component size would be nice, but if you're that serious about it, you can probably just get an Xserve, put a good graphics card in it and rack mount everything. As for the mini as a media center, it's biggest deficiency is its 2.5" drive, but you can always get a FireWire drive with a nice case.
In a well designed home theatre setup, one might be able to hide everything away except the mini connected to other components via FireWire or gigabit Ethernet, but the hardware and software aren't there for it yet.
As for the mini as a media center, it's biggest deficiency is its 2.5" drive, but you can always get a FireWire drive with a nice case.
In a well designed home theatre setup, one might be able to hide everything away except the mini connected to other components via FireWire or gigabit Ethernet, but the hardware and software aren't there for it yet.
Amen (except for the not owning an iPod part). Here's hoping for MWSF07.
I don't care if they have a media center per se. I just want software (and a remote--whether Apple makes it or not--with more functionality...maybe a few softkeys) that can make it all happen: FR2.0 as part of iLife07 with plug-in ability (or even drag and drop folders) so that it can play nice with others (el gato, games, etc); a seperate iTunes-for-videos app that supports burning video playlists in iDVD and ripping content from BDs and HD-DVDs; changing iDVD (and its name) to support BDs and HD-DVDs; and maybe a few other small tweaks.
Come to think of it, instead of a new iTunes-for-videos app, iMovie's functionality could just be extended a bit to add cataloging features (with h264, why can't we just leave high quality copies on our gargantuan drives?). It would add to the complexity quite a bit...
Nah. Nevermind. It makes more sense to keep the creation and editing app separate from the playing and cataloging (and ripping/buying) app, as apple does with iTunes (playing/cataloging/ripping/buying) and Garage Band (creation/editing).
Hmmm. Maybe Quicktime? Transform/extend it into a BD/HDDVD ripper, movie catalog, and movie store portal. Just add a few buttons and a drawer... (It's already cross-platform...)
Don't mind me. Just thinking out loud...
Front Row 2.0 (whatever it will be) will be a part of Leopard, according the WWDC keynote, not a part of iLife.
And that SEEMS to be a sign that something's up.
You've been kinda quiet on the debate over a mid range headless mac and changes due (necessary?) for iMac and mini. I sure you're pretty happy about the new Mac Pro but what do you about these lesser machines?
Mel,
You've been kinda quiet on the debate over a mid range headless mac and changes due (necessary?) for iMac and mini. I sure you're pretty happy about the new Mac Pro but what do you about these lesser machines?
First, yes I'm much happier with the Mac Pro than the older G5 versions, though I wish that Apple had put a slot in the side cover, and made the four drives hot pluggable. That would have been the cat's meow.
I would LOVE to see a mini tower with one Conroe, or later with the single socket version of the Woodcrest that Intel will have later on.
One dual width graphics slot, ala the Mac Pro (why don't more PC's do that?). Two extra slots, they can be 1 lane for cost purposes (almost no boards for the consumer other than a graphics board needs more than the one 256MBs lane).
Four memory slots. More than enough.
Two HD's, and one optical slot.
The usual complement of I/O connectors.
I think this would be super. Apple could do it for around $1,000 to $1,200.
The concern about the cannibalizing of the iMac line is overrated, I believe.
The Mini is a much tougher proposition. There have been so many proposals that it is really difficult to understand just what is viable at the price Apple needs.
Many of the ideas would bring the price close to $1,000, and that's just not feasable.
The only real change Apple can make now without raising the price is to go to the Merom. The Conroe is simply too power greedy for such a small unit, and gives off too much heat.
They can do the usual updates to the HD, and possibly the memory, but I can't see anything else right now, unless it is that port I mentioned earlier here, or on another AI thread. That was to connect to an under the Mini unit to turn it into a full audio/video control center. Something I don't see Apple as being able to do to the Mini itself.
What I would like to see for the iMac is, first of all, going back to a case design that was more accessable, with an easy to attach VESA mount adapter. We were thinking of getting one for our kitchen. I designed the wall cutout to make it sit flush when not in use, but able to be pulled out and swiveled around when needed. I even designed the mounting arm. Then Apple put the kibosh on the whole thing. Sigh! Very disappointing.
I do think a Conroe would work well here. Even this smaller case design they are using now worked for the G5 they had, which used at least as much power, and put out at least as much heat as the 2.67 Conroe. Possibly more, as the G5 was rated at about 65 watts as well, but that was not Total max power as Intel rates its chips, but rather average power, the way IBM rates its chips. Possibly an 80 watt Extreme Conroe, or a 3GHz Woodcrest would work as well, though the Conroe would cost $1,000 in bin quantities, and the Woodcrest about $867.
I would like to see at least an ATI 1800 chip or Nvidia equivalent.
IGB RAM with two slots. More ports.
And, every Apple machine should have at least one E SATA port.
Apple has to do something here. While their laptop sales have been going up, their desktop sales have been going down
By the way, I saw in the NYTimes this morning that they had the biggest laptop marketshare leaders. Here are the numbers:
Dell:........40.1%
Toshiba:..13.1
Hp:..........13
GTW:.......7.1
Compac:..6.9
Apple???
The concern about the cannibalizing of the iMac line is overrated, I believe.
Yeah, so long as they get the same profit margin on a product that costs about as much, I don't see the problem.
By the way, I saw in the NYTimes this morning that they had the biggest laptop marketshare leaders. Here are the numbers:
Dell:........40.1%
Toshiba:..13.1
Hp:..........13
GTW:.......7.1
Compac:..6.9
Apple???
It's very weird that HP and Compaq are separated like that, the time that was appropriate was before they merged. Still, the numbers that someone claimed for the UK (~12%) doesn't seem to apply to the US.
But it is not about margins but about cash.
In the US I thought Apple had a portable marketshare of 12% in the second quarter of 2006.
(Q3 of Apples fiscal year)
In the US I thought Apple had a portable marketshare of 12% in the second quarter of 2006.
(Q3 of Apples fiscal year)
I am pretty certain that was the UK. But I am having trouble finding this information.