And why would you assume that it isn't being tested?
Well it isn't being tested by the wider developer community. However, I assume once these features are announced (at MacWorld I suspect) this will be addressed.
Seems rather odd that Apple hasn't revealed the "top secret features"...I'm starting to believe the people that said the "top secret features" = "we haven't started working on this stuff, so we'll pretend we can't show them yet".
I mean it's been known for almost a month now that Vista was going GM (or whatever term MS uses to signify that it's ready for manufacturing.) And yet, Apple makes tiny annoying updates to the Finder in the new builds it puts out. Why is Apple wasting time like that if they've got a new Finder...and why haven't we seen this new Finder if it's been too late for MS to even think about copying Apple's "top secret features".
Now I seriously doubt a new Finder or "Finder FTFF Edition" actually exist.
I'm starting to think these pitiful updates to the Finder is what we're going to get...with a tiny interface overhaul to the new unified look (which, I'm sorry to say, won't FTFF.)
I don't understand why Apple hasn't fired the Finder team, 4 years ago.
Seems rather odd that Apple hasn't revealed the "top secret features"
Maybe they want to delay Microsoft copying them for their release after Vista. But seeing how long it has taken to ship Vista you've got to wonder why they're worrying. The little updates to the Finder do concern me but Steve wouldn't have said they were missing features if they're not there; it would be bad for business.
Maybe they want to delay Microsoft copying them for their release after Vista. But seeing how long it has taken to ship Vista you've got to wonder why they're worrying. The little updates to the Finder do concern me but Steve wouldn't have said they were missing features if they're not there; it would be bad for business.
Maybe it's the case that those features were not refined enough for the current builds. Plus Jobs knows that the Devs will spill the beans if new features are included in Dev builds. He wants to make a big splash at MWSF with Leopard and get as much press as possible.
With my current psych treatment though as some of you who have gone through it may know, there are cognitive and memory problems... So being out of touch with web design and development, although Photoshop layer mastery is always a learning, usually-fun process (like cooking I guess), so yeah being out of touch with Dreamweaver and Flash, we'll see if I can re-learn CS3 Dreamweaver and CS3 FlashPro... Or maybe not, time to move on to a different career. I hear WallMart is hiring.... But it hasn't opened on Coruscant yet. You'd think, of all the planets in the galaxy, there's no frickin' WallMart on Coruscant!!! WTF? Tatooine has one, Alderaan used to have quite a few (pity about the whole Death-Star blowing up the whole planet thing) -- yeah the Wallmart Alderaan boss was hella pissed. Or he would've been, he was incinerated pretty much instantly. As geeky as this sounds, I've kinda moved on from Star Wars. I think.
It's all right. If I don't do something complex for awhile, I start to forget it also. It's not that unusual.
And yes, Melgross you will be testing 10.5.0 and 10.5.1 thoroughly for all of us. Before we jump in on 10.5.2... We'll set up a new thread - Melgross' Magnificent Magicktacular Macintoshery - now with 20% extra Magicktacularness!!
Yessssss............"You just plugged something into the computer. I have no idea what it is. Let me think for a while. Hmmmmm. Oooooh! It's a USB drive! Sure, I knew that all along. Just wait for a sec now and I'll install some drivers and shit for whatever reason. Yay! Your USB drive is now ready to use!"
"Windows has detected that the USB drive you just connected IS CONNECTED! Seriously, wow! Choose from a bunch of things you might want to do. I handily put a little check mark at the bottom of the list for do this action everytime, but I'm actually gonna ignore that and ask you what to do every time you plug that sucker in"
"Click here to activate Windows. If you don't I'm gonna log you out and laugh at you."
Dude, totally. Not exaggerated at all....!!! \ Especially the bit I highlighted in Purple above. MOST ANNOYING. You can use "Ashampoo" (one of those shareware/ tweakware/ magazineware) things to turn off that "feature"...
I am pretty sure that is adjustable. You can even change the button sizes too, something that OS X doesn't seem to be able to do yet. It looks like that will change with Leopard.
Nope. You can certainly adjust the size of the buttons, but not the spacing between them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
I've seen Finder go against my view preferences more often in a day than Explorer does in a month. Just now, the background for one of my drives changed to a color I've never set.
Well, that's not my experience. Currently, I have 3 PCs at work and 2 at home running a variety of win2kpro, win2kserver, winXPhome, winXPpro and win2k3server. Plus a bunch of other fun things (Vista RC1) running on VMWare just for shits and giggles.
Anyway, all of these machines have a nasty habit of forgetting icon settings and window sizes/positions. Particularly for the contents of My Computer and Control Panels. Sub-directories within the My Pictures directory also seem to revert back to icon view every few weeks when I want to set them to thumbnails. This is the kind of crap that Mac OS X 10.1 and 10.2 used to do all the time. Ever since 10.3, it's been pretty rare on both of the Macs I have at home. Maybe I'm just lucky?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
Without specific examples, I'm not sure what you mean that makes it different with OS X software, but that sounds similar to the gripes people have with Apple's Inspector paradigm.
Hmmm. Specific examples, eh? Just off the top of my head - changing your favorites in Internet Explorer, e.g. the name or URL - the only way to do this is to right-click on the favorite and choose properties. Compare this with Safari which treats all the bookmarks like a list view which you can see and edit straight away.
The Apple Inspector is an entirely different kettle of fish, behaviour and functionality wise. It is persistent and dynamic for a start, changing depending on what you select. It is not hidden, like the properties windows and does not hijack an application window until it is dismissed. In my TCP/IP example (I love it so) I have a bunch of properties windows open - I cannot edit the first one I opened unless I close the one on top of it. Windows just bleets at me like a drunken cow without any kind of error message.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
I think that might have more to do with the developer's choice than anything else.
Well sure, but isn't the open/save dialog provided by the OS as an API? I remember when Mac OS 8 first came out, Apple made a new version of the open/save dialog, but not all apps used it - some had the horrible one from System 7 and below which wasn't re-sizable and didn't have favorites or recent items. When OS X came along it seemed like Apple forced all developers just to use the one style of dialog. Currently Windows seems to offer developers about 3 different styles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
It is an irritation, but it's not something that should need to be set often.
Granted, I happened to choose that as an example which particularly stuck in my mind. I would imagine that laptop users might want to change this setting quite a lot. This is probably why most laptops come with their own software for configuring networking and wireless settings. Hell, I just use IPCONFIG or NETSTAT these days, but we're having a GUI discussion here not a CLI discussion. Although if anyone wants me to I'm sure I could moan about the idiotic keyboard shortcuts of the Windows Command Shell too
Hmmm. Specific examples, eh? Just off the top of my head - changing your favorites in Internet Explorer, e.g. the name or URL - the only way to do this is to right-click on the favorite and choose properties. Compare this with Safari which treats all the bookmarks like a list view which you can see and edit straight away.
The thing I don't like is that to just rename it, Safari forces the software into that alternative view.
There is an Organize Favorites in IE, but it's not as good. But I don't use IE. I prefer Firefox for Window's organization method, I don't need to get into a different program mode to reorganize bookmarks by drag and drop. Firefox for Mac doesn't have this for some unknown reason.
Quote:
Well sure, but isn't the open/save dialog provided by the OS as an API? I remember when Mac OS 8 first came out, Apple made a new version of the open/save dialog, but not all apps used it - some had the horrible one from System 7 and below which wasn't re-sizable and didn't have favorites or recent items. When OS X came along it seemed like Apple forced all developers just to use the one style of dialog. Currently Windows seems to offer developers about 3 different styles.
It's probably given by the API but I think for compatibility reasons, updated boxes aren't forced onto the program.
Quote:
Granted, I happened to choose that as an example which particularly stuck in my mind. I would imagine that laptop users might want to change this setting quite a lot. This is probably why most laptops come with their own software for configuring networking and wireless settings. Hell, I just use IPCONFIG or NETSTAT these days, but we're having a GUI discussion here not a CLI discussion. Although if anyone wants me to I'm sure I could moan about the idiotic keyboard shortcuts of the Windows Command Shell too
I do like the OS X method of setting up network profiles, where it's easy to switch between named network settings for easy switching between commonly used network setings. For example, some network hardware as a default network address of 192.168.1.1 until it is set up, I switch to a different network profile, setup the hardware to the building network and then switch the computer network settings back with a few clicks. I haven't seen anything that's nearly as handy or nice anywhere else.
Sorry, but I don't do it too many times. The thing about the "OMG! You just connected a USB drive! OMFG!" was just too funny because it was just soooo true. As if you would fracking accidentally jam a USBDrive in the USB ports in the usually-hard-to-find-back-panel of PC laptops/ desktops...though some are in the front now of PC casings... If it is any consolation this last few words are in smaller type. And this whole response is in gray.
Sorry, but I don't do it too many times. The thing about the "OMG! You just connected a USB drive! OMFG!" was just too funny because it was just soooo true. As if you would fracking accidentally jam a USBDrive in the USB ports in the usually-hard-to-find-back-panel of PC laptops/ desktops...though some are in the front now of PC casings... If it is any consolation this last few words are in smaller type. And this whole response is in gray.
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Let's face it, you're a manic-depressive.
That was your manic stage, and this is your depressed one.
That was your manic stage, and this is your depressed one.
You do switch quickly.
Heh. Tell me about it ...At least the manic and depressed states are not as full-on as before. Hell, I may even become like one of the Normals instead of an In-Valid [Bonus points to y'all that get the Gattaca reference]. (That's Gattaca not Battlestar Galactica).
Heh. Tell me about it ...At least the manic and depressed states are not as full-on as before. Hell, I may even become like one of the Normals instead of an In-Valid [Bonus points to y'all that get the Gattaca reference]. (That's Gattaca not Battlestar Galactica).
That was an interesting movie. I didn't think anyone remembered it.
You must be artistic.
My daughter goes to an art specialty HS here in NYC. In her freshman year, last year, I was with her and some of her friends when they went to buy art supplies. I was talking to one of her friends, and mentioned, as part of out discussion that she had mild ADD. Her friend said: "Oh, this is La Guardia, we all have ADD."
Heh. ... Gattaca is one of the most artistic Sci-Fi movies I have ever watched and remains on my top sci-fi list, grappling with the Number 1 spot next to Contact. Hitchhiker's Guide was interesting too, for it's British irreverence, but it was a bit unnerving for some reason. Anyway I watched Gattaca in Malaysia/ Australia. This is before I went to the US. So I went freakin' nuts when I visited "Gattaca Corporation" itself - the Frank L. Wright designed Marin County (just north of San Fran) city council building --- it was awesome. Just offices inside, but it was like, Gattaca!!! And the roof and overall design, fantastic. It was great camera angles and "a bit" of special effects showing the space launches in the background that really made a simple retro-futuristic ho-hum government building into something awe-inspiring... The Marin County building is sort of built into a hillside so I was running up and down the hills taking all sorts of pictures... Especially yeah, the "roof scene" where Ethan Hawke is cleaning the roof while the rockets blast off in the background. The actual roof is so tiny! Compared to how it appears in the film... Luckily there was no security to freak anyone out and people in the carparks generally ignored my antics. This was back in 2001/2002... Mind blowing for me -- you know, people outside the US, when we go to the States it's like being in a TV show and being in a Movie for most of the time... growing up watching so much US TVs and movies.... The Marin County building also has Frank L. Wright-designed gardens around it but apparently the original design was not completed.
Heh. ... Gattaca is one of the most artistic Sci-Fi movies I have ever watched and remains on my top sci-fi list, grappling with the Number 1 spot next to Contact. Hitchhiker's Guide was interesting too, for it's British irreverence, but it was a bit unnerving for some reason. Anyway I watched Gattaca in Malaysia/ Australia. This is before I went to the US. So I went freakin' nuts when I visited "Gattaca Corporation" itself - the Frank L. Wright designed Marin County (just north of San Fran) city council building --- it was awesome. Just offices inside, but it was like, Gattaca!!! And the roof and overall design, fantastic. It was great camera angles and "a bit" of special effects showing the space launches in the background that really made a simple retro-futuristic ho-hum government building into something awe-inspiring... The Marin County building is sort of built into a hillside so I was running up and down the hills taking all sorts of pictures... Especially yeah, the "roof scene" where Ethan Hawke is cleaning the roof while the rockets blast off in the background. The actual roof is so tiny! Compared to how it appears in the film... Luckily there was no security to freak anyone out and people in the carparks generally ignored my antics. This was back in 2001/2002... Mind blowing for me -- you know, people outside the US, when we go to the States it's like being in a TV show and being in a Movie for most of the time... growing up watching so much US TVs and movies.... The Marin County building also has Frank L. Wright-designed gardens around it but apparently the original design was not completed.
I've never been to it myself. I can tell you though, that Wright rarely finished his projects. He often let itinerant contractors finish is buildings. One problem with that was that he didn't give detailed plans, so they had to figure it out for themselves. It's why so many of his homes deteriorated. So much for digression!
I haven't seen the Hitchhikers Guide yet. I did see the British Tv series years ago. Despite the cheesy effects, it was really very good. It had the real "feel" of the book. The fifth Dr. Who , Peter Davidson, played the "Dish of the Day" in the Restaurant.
As of Tiger, Finder's pretty good--but still not quite there: it doesn't update file details instantly in the background when I save/change a file in another app.
This is actually a task that the application has to perform. It's a trivial thing to do, but the idea is to prevent excess file movement when it's not necessary. For example, imagine if an app has some gigantic file the user opened from the desktop. When the app goes to save that file, it might save the current file stored in RAM to a temp file first, delete the old file, and move the temp file over. If the Finder updated every time that happened, the user might become suspicious of their constantly blinking and rearranging desktop files.
Is a tabbed finder window present in Leopard? It certainly helps clear the clutter with web pages, and I think it could be a valuable tool with the Finder.
How about Apple allow global tabs for any app? Instead of having multiple windows laying around the desktop, associate them all for each app. Would clear the clutter and make my day.
Is a tabbed finder window present in Leopard? It certainly helps clear the clutter with web pages, and I think it could be a valuable tool with the Finder.
How about Apple allow global tabs for any app? Instead of having multiple windows laying around the desktop, associate them all for each app. Would clear the clutter and make my day.
As long as tabs can be turned off, they will be a good thing. Sometimes they are just not the right thing to be using.
Don't forget that you can back up in a finder window. Not quite as convenient, but it works well.
Comments
And why would you assume that it isn't being tested?
Well it isn't being tested by the wider developer community. However, I assume once these features are announced (at MacWorld I suspect) this will be addressed.
I mean it's been known for almost a month now that Vista was going GM (or whatever term MS uses to signify that it's ready for manufacturing.) And yet, Apple makes tiny annoying updates to the Finder in the new builds it puts out. Why is Apple wasting time like that if they've got a new Finder...and why haven't we seen this new Finder if it's been too late for MS to even think about copying Apple's "top secret features".
Now I seriously doubt a new Finder or "Finder FTFF Edition" actually exist.
I'm starting to think these pitiful updates to the Finder is what we're going to get...with a tiny interface overhaul to the new unified look (which, I'm sorry to say, won't FTFF.)
I don't understand why Apple hasn't fired the Finder team, 4 years ago.
Seems rather odd that Apple hasn't revealed the "top secret features"
Maybe they want to delay Microsoft copying them for their release after Vista. But seeing how long it has taken to ship Vista you've got to wonder why they're worrying.
Maybe they want to delay Microsoft copying them for their release after Vista. But seeing how long it has taken to ship Vista you've got to wonder why they're worrying.
Maybe it's the case that those features were not refined enough for the current builds. Plus Jobs knows that the Devs will spill the beans if new features are included in Dev builds. He wants to make a big splash at MWSF with Leopard and get as much press as possible.
With my current psych treatment though as some of you who have gone through it may know, there are cognitive and memory problems... So being out of touch with web design and development, although Photoshop layer mastery is always a learning, usually-fun process (like cooking I guess), so yeah being out of touch with Dreamweaver and Flash, we'll see if I can re-learn CS3 Dreamweaver and CS3 FlashPro... Or maybe not, time to move on to a different career. I hear WallMart is hiring....
It's all right. If I don't do something complex for awhile, I start to forget it also. It's not that unusual.
And yes, Melgross you will be testing 10.5.0 and 10.5.1 thoroughly for all of us. Before we jump in on 10.5.2... We'll set up a new thread - Melgross' Magnificent Magicktacular Macintoshery - now with 20% extra Magicktacularness!!
As always.
Yessssss............"You just plugged something into the computer. I have no idea what it is. Let me think for a while. Hmmmmm. Oooooh! It's a USB drive! Sure, I knew that all along. Just wait for a sec now and I'll install some drivers and shit for whatever reason. Yay! Your USB drive is now ready to use!"
"Windows has detected that the USB drive you just connected IS CONNECTED! Seriously, wow! Choose from a bunch of things you might want to do. I handily put a little check mark at the bottom of the list for do this action everytime, but I'm actually gonna ignore that and ask you what to do every time you plug that sucker in"
"Click here to activate Windows. If you don't I'm gonna log you out and laugh at you."
Dude, totally.
Cube spin log in another user.
Doesn't OSX do that now?
Vinea
I am pretty sure that is adjustable. You can even change the button sizes too, something that OS X doesn't seem to be able to do yet. It looks like that will change with Leopard.
Nope. You can certainly adjust the size of the buttons, but not the spacing between them.
I've seen Finder go against my view preferences more often in a day than Explorer does in a month. Just now, the background for one of my drives changed to a color I've never set.
Well, that's not my experience. Currently, I have 3 PCs at work and 2 at home running a variety of win2kpro, win2kserver, winXPhome, winXPpro and win2k3server. Plus a bunch of other fun things (Vista RC1) running on VMWare just for shits and giggles.
Anyway, all of these machines have a nasty habit of forgetting icon settings and window sizes/positions. Particularly for the contents of My Computer and Control Panels. Sub-directories within the My Pictures directory also seem to revert back to icon view every few weeks when I want to set them to thumbnails. This is the kind of crap that Mac OS X 10.1 and 10.2 used to do all the time. Ever since 10.3, it's been pretty rare on both of the Macs I have at home. Maybe I'm just lucky?
Without specific examples, I'm not sure what you mean that makes it different with OS X software, but that sounds similar to the gripes people have with Apple's Inspector paradigm.
Hmmm. Specific examples, eh? Just off the top of my head - changing your favorites in Internet Explorer, e.g. the name or URL - the only way to do this is to right-click on the favorite and choose properties. Compare this with Safari which treats all the bookmarks like a list view which you can see and edit straight away.
The Apple Inspector is an entirely different kettle of fish, behaviour and functionality wise. It is persistent and dynamic for a start, changing depending on what you select. It is not hidden, like the properties windows and does not hijack an application window until it is dismissed. In my TCP/IP example (I love it so) I have a bunch of properties windows open - I cannot edit the first one I opened unless I close the one on top of it. Windows just bleets at me like a drunken cow without any kind of error message.
I think that might have more to do with the developer's choice than anything else.
Well sure, but isn't the open/save dialog provided by the OS as an API? I remember when Mac OS 8 first came out, Apple made a new version of the open/save dialog, but not all apps used it - some had the horrible one from System 7 and below which wasn't re-sizable and didn't have favorites or recent items. When OS X came along it seemed like Apple forced all developers just to use the one style of dialog. Currently Windows seems to offer developers about 3 different styles.
It is an irritation, but it's not something that should need to be set often.
Granted, I happened to choose that as an example which particularly stuck in my mind. I would imagine that laptop users might want to change this setting quite a lot. This is probably why most laptops come with their own software for configuring networking and wireless settings. Hell, I just use IPCONFIG or NETSTAT these days, but we're having a GUI discussion here not a CLI discussion. Although if anyone wants me to I'm sure I could moan about the idiotic keyboard shortcuts of the Windows Command Shell too
Hmmm. Specific examples, eh? Just off the top of my head - changing your favorites in Internet Explorer, e.g. the name or URL - the only way to do this is to right-click on the favorite and choose properties. Compare this with Safari which treats all the bookmarks like a list view which you can see and edit straight away.
The thing I don't like is that to just rename it, Safari forces the software into that alternative view.
There is an Organize Favorites in IE, but it's not as good. But I don't use IE. I prefer Firefox for Window's organization method, I don't need to get into a different program mode to reorganize bookmarks by drag and drop. Firefox for Mac doesn't have this for some unknown reason.
Well sure, but isn't the open/save dialog provided by the OS as an API? I remember when Mac OS 8 first came out, Apple made a new version of the open/save dialog, but not all apps used it - some had the horrible one from System 7 and below which wasn't re-sizable and didn't have favorites or recent items. When OS X came along it seemed like Apple forced all developers just to use the one style of dialog. Currently Windows seems to offer developers about 3 different styles.
It's probably given by the API but I think for compatibility reasons, updated boxes aren't forced onto the program.
Granted, I happened to choose that as an example which particularly stuck in my mind. I would imagine that laptop users might want to change this setting quite a lot. This is probably why most laptops come with their own software for configuring networking and wireless settings. Hell, I just use IPCONFIG or NETSTAT these days, but we're having a GUI discussion here not a CLI discussion. Although if anyone wants me to I'm sure I could moan about the idiotic keyboard shortcuts of the Windows Command Shell too
I do like the OS X method of setting up network profiles, where it's easy to switch between named network settings for easy switching between commonly used network setings. For example, some network hardware as a default network address of 192.168.1.1 until it is set up, I switch to a different network profile, setup the hardware to the building network and then switch the computer network settings back with a few clicks. I haven't seen anything that's nearly as handy or nice anywhere else.
oh dear, my eyes! too much noise
..
..
..
..
Let's face it, you're a manic-depressive.
That was your manic stage, and this is your depressed one.
You do switch quickly.
Let's face it, you're a manic-depressive.
That was your manic stage, and this is your depressed one.
You do switch quickly.
Heh. Tell me about it
Heh. Tell me about it
That was an interesting movie. I didn't think anyone remembered it.
You must be artistic.
My daughter goes to an art specialty HS here in NYC. In her freshman year, last year, I was with her and some of her friends when they went to buy art supplies. I was talking to one of her friends, and mentioned, as part of out discussion that she had mild ADD. Her friend said: "Oh, this is La Guardia, we all have ADD."
Heh.
I've never been to it myself. I can tell you though, that Wright rarely finished his projects. He often let itinerant contractors finish is buildings. One problem with that was that he didn't give detailed plans, so they had to figure it out for themselves. It's why so many of his homes deteriorated. So much for digression!
I haven't seen the Hitchhikers Guide yet. I did see the British Tv series years ago. Despite the cheesy effects, it was really very good. It had the real "feel" of the book. The fifth Dr. Who , Peter Davidson, played the "Dish of the Day" in the Restaurant.
As of Tiger, Finder's pretty good--but still not quite there: it doesn't update file details instantly in the background when I save/change a file in another app.
This is actually a task that the application has to perform. It's a trivial thing to do, but the idea is to prevent excess file movement when it's not necessary. For example, imagine if an app has some gigantic file the user opened from the desktop. When the app goes to save that file, it might save the current file stored in RAM to a temp file first, delete the old file, and move the temp file over. If the Finder updated every time that happened, the user might become suspicious of their constantly blinking and rearranging desktop files.
So I guess it's a feature, not a bug
How about Apple allow global tabs for any app? Instead of having multiple windows laying around the desktop, associate them all for each app. Would clear the clutter and make my day.
Is a tabbed finder window present in Leopard? It certainly helps clear the clutter with web pages, and I think it could be a valuable tool with the Finder.
How about Apple allow global tabs for any app? Instead of having multiple windows laying around the desktop, associate them all for each app. Would clear the clutter and make my day.
As long as tabs can be turned off, they will be a good thing. Sometimes they are just not the right thing to be using.
Don't forget that you can back up in a finder window. Not quite as convenient, but it works well.