I just love it how some people can justify ANYTHING. Take, for example, this effort to justify one of the worst colour choices in industrial design - a BROWN (and not a nice brown either, but rather a baby poo brown) - by saying that the colour is going to be in most 'designers colour stories over the next year or two...' well, that's just fuc*in' great! Excellent.
Ok. You've started out poorly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deckard
So, not only are Microsoft apparently only 'testing the waters...' or 'floating a balloon' with this initial Zune, but apparently it's going to be a particularly long lived initial balloon because it'll still be around in time to be a popular colour!?!
Now you're attributing quotes of uncited source to me. Strike 2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deckard
You are utterly insane if you honestly believe your own preposterous crap.
It's not my "preposterous crap". It's trend forecasting - by people who get paid a lot of money to do so. I made that clear in my initial post. Strike 3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deckard
Microsoft needs to 'float a balloon' to see if the public likes the idea of an MP3 player? Bullshit. Microsoft's designers are two years ahead of the curve in designing a colour scheme for a lemon that's only designed to last... what? One year? 18 months? Bullshit.
No, Microsoft's designers are on the curve with their colour choices. Sony Ericsson and Nokia, as I pointed out, were ahead of the curve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deckard
Microsoft decided to get into a highly lucrative market without investing billions in R&D on hardware but rather to copy the eco-system of Apple with cheap hardware that they can discount to hell in the future just so they can kill another market segment? Sounds far more likely to me.
Oh, and they really couldn't give a crap about the colours.
Do you really believe that they couldn't give a crap about the colours? Do you? Of course, a company about to compete with the iPod wouldn't give any thought to market position, perception, or trends. Why waste that valuable time and money! Next you'll be seeing a bright green Zune!
Bitter much? Since you've decided to vent your anger over the colour brown at me for some reason, I might as well point out that reading comprehension isn't your strong point. Next time you come up with a post like that, I'll give you a vacation. I can certainly justify that.
I have yet to see anything positive written about the brown color, but that's because adults have been commenting. Don't be surprised if that's the best selling color. Right now kids LOVE brown (and black) -- check out their clothes. That color preference may not carry over to music players, but I'm sure that's what MS based their color selection on.
Microsoft is betting that some of the player's unique features will act as selling points, such as its built-in FM receiver and wireless sharing capabilities.
The unique features of the iPod FAR outweigh those of ZUNE. For instance, ZUNE can NOT be used as an external hard drive.
Smartz, thanks for posting. That is one very interesting factor I didn't think of. It is yet another sneaky aspect of the launch of this product.
Was anyone else aware that some songs purchased from the Zune store cannot be shared between Zunes, and you won't find out about this until you actually try sending? Apparently some artists would not give permission to Microsoft to allow sharing, even with the restrictive permissions.
Yes. They've made it very clear that only SOME purchased songs, as well as some promotional material can be shared.
Now you're attributing quotes of uncited source to me. Strike 2.
It's not my "preposterous crap". It's trend forecasting - by people who get paid a lot of money to do so. I made that clear in my initial post. Strike 3.
No, Microsoft's designers are on the curve with their colour choices. Sony Ericsson and Nokia, as I pointed out, were ahead of the curve.
Do you really believe that they couldn't give a crap about the colours? Do you? Of course, a company about to compete with the iPod wouldn't give any thought to market position, perception, or trends. Why waste that valuable time and money! Next you'll be seeing a bright green Zune!
Bitter much? Since you've decided to vent your anger over the colour brown at me for some reason, I might as well point out that reading comprehension isn't your strong point. Next time you come up with a post like that, I'll give you a vacation. I can certainly justify that.
Well, I suppose starting out poorly is better than starting out like a retarded fruit bat isn't it?
Anyhoo - I wasn't attributing quotes to YOU moron, I was using your very colourful and completely incorrect post to respond to the ENTIRE argument regarding the colour of and the impending success or lack thereof of the Zune unit.
So, 'strike' tww or whatever it was (very culturaly inept of you - I'm not American so the term 'strike 1 or 2 or 3 or whatever' means nothing to me) - is meaningless... your 'strike 1' is just crap and you know it. As for the rest of your post in response - YAWN.
I could care less about your little focus groups and your colour experts and BLAH BLAH BLAH.
Yes, I HONESTLY believe that Micro$oft couldn't give a flying good god damned about the colour. That's right. I think they couldn't care less.
Oh, and your precious colour theorists are always getting it right aren't they? You all important designers and fashionista - take the current crop of BMW cars for example... they're cutting edege design aren't they? All the focus groups and highly paid morons that sit around thinking this shit up said that they'd be a HUGE hit with the market.
Yeah, well, that turned out REAL well for BMW didn't it? Chris B is now EX-BMW... interesting that he was chief of design and he's the ONLY American designer they've ever let near their cars and he single handedly crippled the entier BMW line! Of course, it may look FANTASTIC in 20 years... but who cares? By that time BMW have gone back or across or over to something that's more attractive to the MAJORITY of people.
You keep your 'Strike 1' bullshit and your colour theorists and your brown Zune. I'll stick with what I know looks good rather than having to be told by some focus group what's going to look good in two years when nobody'll care.
Some people make the fashion and others need to be told what's going to be the fashion. Clearly you need to be told. Just be careful who you listen to!
I have yet to see anything positive written about the brown color, but that's because adults have been commenting. Don't be surprised if that's the best selling color. Right now kids LOVE brown (and black) -- check out their clothes. That color preference may not carry over to music players, but I'm sure that's what MS based their color selection on.
Brown is also a "guy" color. That, and muted greens. Check out the army.
Ralph Loren, the "man's man" of designers, uses various shades of brown for almost all his clothes, and home furnishings—all meant for men.
I can see some hunter, dressed out in his camo, listening to country on his brown Zune.
They change part of it. MS had little to do with designing it, so your claim that they "created" it is off. And, no doubt, MS would have loved to have unlimited "social" networkimg for the player. But, that was also beyond their control.
I don't want to get into a semantics argument because we are pretty much on the same page but I didn't say they designed it from the ground up. They designed portions of it. It was most likely their idea to include wireless capabilities and they almost surely designed the external appearance, chose the case materials and colors, etc.
Oh, and your precious colour theorists are always getting it right aren't they? You all important designers and fashionista - take the current crop of BMW cars for example... they're cutting edege design aren't they? All the focus groups and highly paid morons that sit around thinking this shit up said that they'd be a HUGE hit with the market.
Yeah, well, that turned out REAL well for BMW didn't it? Chris B is now EX-BMW... interesting that he was chief of design and he's the ONLY American designer they've ever let near their cars and he single handedly crippled the entier BMW line! Of course, it may look FANTASTIC in 20 years... but who cares? By that time BMW have gone back or across or over to something that's more attractive to the MAJORITY of people.
Right. That's because Chris Bangle is now head of design for the entire BMW group. He'll be flame surfacing BMW, MIni and Rolls Royce now, to your stunned delight.
If you're going to make an argument, get your facts straight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deckard
You keep your 'Strike 1' bullshit and your colour theorists and your brown Zune. I'll stick with what I know looks good rather than having to be told by some focus group what's going to look good in two years when nobody'll care.
Some people make the fashion and others need to be told what's going to be the fashion. Clearly you need to be told. Just be careful who you listen to!
Did your mum make you wear brown velour jumpsuits when you were a child? Poor thing.
Since you know what looks good, you'll be pleasantly surprised to know that the Zune is also offered in Black and White. I guess you're shit out of luck if you're looking for mauve.
I don't want to get into a semantics argument because we are pretty much on the same page but I didn't say they designed it from the ground up. They designed portions of it. It was most likely their idea to include wireless capabilities and they almost surely designed the external appearance, chose the case materials and colors, etc.
Well, no doubt they have some of the externals to their (dis)credit. But, the device is almost a duplicate of a Toshiba one, though I don't remember the model.
Just an interesting story. I am a high school music teacher in the Seattle area and every once in a while we get into technology conversations because my students know how easy it is to change to that subject, and a student asked me what my personal opinion was about the new zune coming out tomorrow.
I said I would never buy one because 1. I don't buy microsoft products (which they already knew) 2. even if I did buy microsoft products, I have already spent over $2000 on iTUNES music. I'm not about to restart my library or burn my whole library onto CDs and reimport it. 3. I'm not re-importing my CDs into the zune marketplace or whatever the software is called.
Anyway, a kid speaks up and says,"I'm getting one!!!" I asked him why. He told me that a "guy at Church" that works for microsoft has offered to give $100 discounts to him and several other high school aged kids. WOW, I thought... this could be the lowest of lows.
So Microsoft employees are going to sell them at a 4th of the cost to advertise (seems more than the employee discount if you ask me). THIS IS SICK. I told the kid if he would rather have an iPOD, I would pay the difference if the money is the only thing changing his mind. He said okay, so I'm waiting to see how this "Church infiltrating MS employee" is going to sweeten the deal for the kid.
Well, no doubt they have some of the externals to their (dis)credit. But, the device is almost a duplicate of a Toshiba one, though I don't remember the model.
Well, no doubt they have some of the externals to their (dis)credit. But, the device is almost a duplicate of a Toshiba one, though I don't remember the model.
I think this is the model you are thinking about. It is pretty much the ZUNE, but instead of a circular directional pad, it as a cross shaped directional pad. It's pretty much the same.
I think this is the model you are thinking about. It is pretty much the ZUNE, but instead of a circular directional pad, it as a cross shaped directional pad. It's pretty much the same.
sorry... no AWESOME wi-fi
It looks better too, doesn't it? Whatever MS people spent their time and money doing to it just seems to have made it worse.
Although it's seen as the most legitimate competitor to Apple Computer and the iPod+iTunes franchise thus far, Microsoft Corp., which launches its Zune digital media player and compatible music service on Tuesday, has its work cut out for it.
Priced at $249 with 30GB of storage, Zune will enter the market at relatively the same cost as one of Apple's video iPod models. Microsoft is betteing that some of the player's unique features will act as selling points, such as its built-in FM receiver and wireless sharing capabilities.
While an FM receiver is one of the most highly requested features for the iPod, one Wall Street analysts is skeptical that Zune's wireless capabilities will act as a catalyst to help spur sales of the bulkier, heavier iPod rival.
"If, at some point, there are millions of Zunes in the market, the wireless sharing capability may prove to be a more compelling feature," PiperJaffray analyst Gene Munster told clients on Monday. "We do not expect to see a material impact on iPod market share from the Zune over the next 2 quarters, unless Microsoft starts a massive marketing effort within the next few weeks."
For its part, Microsoft has vowed to spend hundreds of millions of dollars over the next several years to promote its Zune brand and close the gap on Apple's iPod. But as Munster told clients, expectations of any immediate results may be far fetched.
"Media and analyst coverage of Zune has been high, but we believe public awareness of Zune is still low at this point and would need to grow significantly in the coming weeks for Zune to have an impact on this holiday season," he said.
Munster said Microsoft plans to spend several years developing various other gadgets under the Zune brand, which likely translates into Apple having a clear runway to grow its iPod footprint and expand its own offerings before Microsoft has a real foundation in the space.
"Ultimately, it is possible that Microsoft will be better off for spending several years investing in this initiative, but unless Microsoft makes some inroads against Apple during the investment phase, it may prove to be too late to capture meaningful market share," he said.
Similarly, Munster is uncertain that Microsoft's emphasis on "community" features, such as wireless audio and video sharing, is optimal for driving growth in the digital media player market.
"We expect community features will become increasingly embedded in various services (and devices via wifi), including iTunes, but ultimately we believe that this is a device driven market and for Zune to be successful Microsoft must develop devices that capture customers from Apple," he said.
Comments
There was/is a phone marketed with the name "Chocolate", "Chocolat" or some such. If it's brown, it's a much darker brown.
They call the color for the Zune, chocolate.
I just love it how some people can justify ANYTHING. Take, for example, this effort to justify one of the worst colour choices in industrial design - a BROWN (and not a nice brown either, but rather a baby poo brown) - by saying that the colour is going to be in most 'designers colour stories over the next year or two...' well, that's just fuc*in' great! Excellent.
Ok. You've started out poorly.
So, not only are Microsoft apparently only 'testing the waters...' or 'floating a balloon' with this initial Zune, but apparently it's going to be a particularly long lived initial balloon because it'll still be around in time to be a popular colour!?!
Now you're attributing quotes of uncited source to me. Strike 2.
You are utterly insane if you honestly believe your own preposterous crap.
It's not my "preposterous crap". It's trend forecasting - by people who get paid a lot of money to do so. I made that clear in my initial post. Strike 3.
Microsoft needs to 'float a balloon' to see if the public likes the idea of an MP3 player? Bullshit. Microsoft's designers are two years ahead of the curve in designing a colour scheme for a lemon that's only designed to last... what? One year? 18 months? Bullshit.
No, Microsoft's designers are on the curve with their colour choices. Sony Ericsson and Nokia, as I pointed out, were ahead of the curve.
Microsoft decided to get into a highly lucrative market without investing billions in R&D on hardware but rather to copy the eco-system of Apple with cheap hardware that they can discount to hell in the future just so they can kill another market segment? Sounds far more likely to me.
Oh, and they really couldn't give a crap about the colours.
Do you really believe that they couldn't give a crap about the colours? Do you? Of course, a company about to compete with the iPod wouldn't give any thought to market position, perception, or trends. Why waste that valuable time and money! Next you'll be seeing a bright green Zune!
Bitter much? Since you've decided to vent your anger over the colour brown at me for some reason, I might as well point out that reading comprehension isn't your strong point. Next time you come up with a post like that, I'll give you a vacation. I can certainly justify that.
Microsoft is betting that some of the player's unique features will act as selling points, such as its built-in FM receiver and wireless sharing capabilities.
The unique features of the iPod FAR outweigh those of ZUNE. For instance, ZUNE can NOT be used as an external hard drive.
Smartz, thanks for posting. That is one very interesting factor I didn't think of. It is yet another sneaky aspect of the launch of this product.
Was anyone else aware that some songs purchased from the Zune store cannot be shared between Zunes, and you won't find out about this until you actually try sending? Apparently some artists would not give permission to Microsoft to allow sharing, even with the restrictive permissions.
Yes. They've made it very clear that only SOME purchased songs, as well as some promotional material can be shared.
Ok. You've started out poorly.
Now you're attributing quotes of uncited source to me. Strike 2.
It's not my "preposterous crap". It's trend forecasting - by people who get paid a lot of money to do so. I made that clear in my initial post. Strike 3.
No, Microsoft's designers are on the curve with their colour choices. Sony Ericsson and Nokia, as I pointed out, were ahead of the curve.
Do you really believe that they couldn't give a crap about the colours? Do you? Of course, a company about to compete with the iPod wouldn't give any thought to market position, perception, or trends. Why waste that valuable time and money! Next you'll be seeing a bright green Zune!
Bitter much? Since you've decided to vent your anger over the colour brown at me for some reason, I might as well point out that reading comprehension isn't your strong point. Next time you come up with a post like that, I'll give you a vacation. I can certainly justify that.
Well, I suppose starting out poorly is better than starting out like a retarded fruit bat isn't it?
Anyhoo - I wasn't attributing quotes to YOU moron, I was using your very colourful and completely incorrect post to respond to the ENTIRE argument regarding the colour of and the impending success or lack thereof of the Zune unit.
So, 'strike' tww or whatever it was (very culturaly inept of you - I'm not American so the term 'strike 1 or 2 or 3 or whatever' means nothing to me) - is meaningless... your 'strike 1' is just crap and you know it. As for the rest of your post in response - YAWN.
I could care less about your little focus groups and your colour experts and BLAH BLAH BLAH.
Yes, I HONESTLY believe that Micro$oft couldn't give a flying good god damned about the colour. That's right. I think they couldn't care less.
Oh, and your precious colour theorists are always getting it right aren't they? You all important designers and fashionista - take the current crop of BMW cars for example... they're cutting edege design aren't they? All the focus groups and highly paid morons that sit around thinking this shit up said that they'd be a HUGE hit with the market.
Yeah, well, that turned out REAL well for BMW didn't it? Chris B is now EX-BMW... interesting that he was chief of design and he's the ONLY American designer they've ever let near their cars and he single handedly crippled the entier BMW line! Of course, it may look FANTASTIC in 20 years... but who cares? By that time BMW have gone back or across or over to something that's more attractive to the MAJORITY of people.
You keep your 'Strike 1' bullshit and your colour theorists and your brown Zune. I'll stick with what I know looks good rather than having to be told by some focus group what's going to look good in two years when nobody'll care.
Some people make the fashion and others need to be told what's going to be the fashion. Clearly you need to be told. Just be careful who you listen to!
I have yet to see anything positive written about the brown color, but that's because adults have been commenting. Don't be surprised if that's the best selling color. Right now kids LOVE brown (and black) -- check out their clothes. That color preference may not carry over to music players, but I'm sure that's what MS based their color selection on.
Brown is also a "guy" color. That, and muted greens. Check out the army.
Ralph Loren, the "man's man" of designers, uses various shades of brown for almost all his clothes, and home furnishings—all meant for men.
I can see some hunter, dressed out in his camo, listening to country on his brown Zune.
They change part of it. MS had little to do with designing it, so your claim that they "created" it is off. And, no doubt, MS would have loved to have unlimited "social" networkimg for the player. But, that was also beyond their control.
I don't want to get into a semantics argument because we are pretty much on the same page but I didn't say they designed it from the ground up. They designed portions of it. It was most likely their idea to include wireless capabilities and they almost surely designed the external appearance, chose the case materials and colors, etc.
<snipped infantile ranting>
Oh, and your precious colour theorists are always getting it right aren't they? You all important designers and fashionista - take the current crop of BMW cars for example... they're cutting edege design aren't they? All the focus groups and highly paid morons that sit around thinking this shit up said that they'd be a HUGE hit with the market.
Yeah, well, that turned out REAL well for BMW didn't it? Chris B is now EX-BMW... interesting that he was chief of design and he's the ONLY American designer they've ever let near their cars and he single handedly crippled the entier BMW line! Of course, it may look FANTASTIC in 20 years... but who cares? By that time BMW have gone back or across or over to something that's more attractive to the MAJORITY of people.
Right. That's because Chris Bangle is now head of design for the entire BMW group. He'll be flame surfacing BMW, MIni and Rolls Royce now, to your stunned delight.
If you're going to make an argument, get your facts straight.
You keep your 'Strike 1' bullshit and your colour theorists and your brown Zune. I'll stick with what I know looks good rather than having to be told by some focus group what's going to look good in two years when nobody'll care.
Some people make the fashion and others need to be told what's going to be the fashion. Clearly you need to be told. Just be careful who you listen to!
Did your mum make you wear brown velour jumpsuits when you were a child? Poor thing.
Since you know what looks good, you'll be pleasantly surprised to know that the Zune is also offered in Black and White. I guess you're shit out of luck if you're looking for mauve.
I don't want to get into a semantics argument because we are pretty much on the same page but I didn't say they designed it from the ground up. They designed portions of it. It was most likely their idea to include wireless capabilities and they almost surely designed the external appearance, chose the case materials and colors, etc.
Well, no doubt they have some of the externals to their (dis)credit. But, the device is almost a duplicate of a Toshiba one, though I don't remember the model.
I said I would never buy one because 1. I don't buy microsoft products (which they already knew) 2. even if I did buy microsoft products, I have already spent over $2000 on iTUNES music. I'm not about to restart my library or burn my whole library onto CDs and reimport it. 3. I'm not re-importing my CDs into the zune marketplace or whatever the software is called.
Anyway, a kid speaks up and says,"I'm getting one!!!" I asked him why. He told me that a "guy at Church" that works for microsoft has offered to give $100 discounts to him and several other high school aged kids. WOW, I thought... this could be the lowest of lows.
So Microsoft employees are going to sell them at a 4th of the cost to advertise (seems more than the employee discount if you ask me). THIS IS SICK. I told the kid if he would rather have an iPOD, I would pay the difference if the money is the only thing changing his mind. He said okay, so I'm waiting to see how this "Church infiltrating MS employee" is going to sweeten the deal for the kid.
I'm just stunned by this.
Well, no doubt they have some of the externals to their (dis)credit. But, the device is almost a duplicate of a Toshiba one, though I don't remember the model.
Toshiba Gigabeat S
Well, no doubt they have some of the externals to their (dis)credit. But, the device is almost a duplicate of a Toshiba one, though I don't remember the model.
I think this is the model you are thinking about. It is pretty much the ZUNE, but instead of a circular directional pad, it as a cross shaped directional pad. It's pretty much the same.
sorry... no AWESOME wi-fi
Toshiba Gigabeat S
Thank you.
I think this is the model you are thinking about. It is pretty much the ZUNE, but instead of a circular directional pad, it as a cross shaped directional pad. It's pretty much the same.
sorry... no AWESOME wi-fi
It looks better too, doesn't it? Whatever MS people spent their time and money doing to it just seems to have made it worse.
Yeah, really awful, er awsome.
It looks better too, doesn't it? Whatever MS people spent their time and money doing to it just seems to have made it worse.
Yeah, really awful, er awsome.
As my grandpa would say, "Same sh*t, different package"
Although it's seen as the most legitimate competitor to Apple Computer and the iPod+iTunes franchise thus far, Microsoft Corp., which launches its Zune digital media player and compatible music service on Tuesday, has its work cut out for it.
Priced at $249 with 30GB of storage, Zune will enter the market at relatively the same cost as one of Apple's video iPod models. Microsoft is betteing that some of the player's unique features will act as selling points, such as its built-in FM receiver and wireless sharing capabilities.
While an FM receiver is one of the most highly requested features for the iPod, one Wall Street analysts is skeptical that Zune's wireless capabilities will act as a catalyst to help spur sales of the bulkier, heavier iPod rival.
"If, at some point, there are millions of Zunes in the market, the wireless sharing capability may prove to be a more compelling feature," PiperJaffray analyst Gene Munster told clients on Monday. "We do not expect to see a material impact on iPod market share from the Zune over the next 2 quarters, unless Microsoft starts a massive marketing effort within the next few weeks."
For its part, Microsoft has vowed to spend hundreds of millions of dollars over the next several years to promote its Zune brand and close the gap on Apple's iPod. But as Munster told clients, expectations of any immediate results may be far fetched.
"Media and analyst coverage of Zune has been high, but we believe public awareness of Zune is still low at this point and would need to grow significantly in the coming weeks for Zune to have an impact on this holiday season," he said.
Munster said Microsoft plans to spend several years developing various other gadgets under the Zune brand, which likely translates into Apple having a clear runway to grow its iPod footprint and expand its own offerings before Microsoft has a real foundation in the space.
"Ultimately, it is possible that Microsoft will be better off for spending several years investing in this initiative, but unless Microsoft makes some inroads against Apple during the investment phase, it may prove to be too late to capture meaningful market share," he said.
Similarly, Munster is uncertain that Microsoft's emphasis on "community" features, such as wireless audio and video sharing, is optimal for driving growth in the digital media player market.
"We expect community features will become increasingly embedded in various services (and devices via wifi), including iTunes, but ultimately we believe that this is a device driven market and for Zune to be successful Microsoft must develop devices that capture customers from Apple," he said.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
I'll really feel sorry for that kid who opens his Christmas Gift to find a BROWN ZUNE :-(
"Yeah, yeah", you say. "Brown, bwhahahaha."
Yep, that's exactly what I say. Brown... BWAHAHAHAHA!
It's farking awful, there's just no other way to slice it, unless one's into wishful thinking.
Here's to brown... the new suck.