Right. That's because Chris Bangle is now head of design for the entire BMW group. He'll be flame surfacing BMW, MIni and Rolls Royce now, to your stunned delight.
If you're going to make an argument, get your facts straight.
Did your mum make you wear brown velour jumpsuits when you were a child? Poor thing.
Since you know what looks good, you'll be pleasantly surprised to know that the Zune is also offered in Black and White. I guess you're shit out of luck if you're looking for mauve.
Talk about having no clue! Chris Bangle is NOT the head of design for the entire BMW group. He WAS, but he's now retired to a middle level position within BMW.
In fact, his name is now a verb - to 'bangle' a design is (in design circles anyway) to ruin it.
So, if you'd like to argue may I suggest YOU get your facts straight.
My mother, for your information, had more taste in her little finger than you're likely to enjoy in your entire life; given that you listen to the advice of all those insanely well paid consultants.
Brown is brown. It has never been a particularly fashionable colour and it won't be in the future. Or are you suggesting that Apple has no idea about what's hot and what's not? I'm really sorry, but I don't see a brown iPod out there... red? yes, Green? yes, Blue? yes, Silver and black and even pink? yes, yes and yes. Let's see... shit brown? Ah... that'd be a NO. With good reason.
As for this unit actually being worth purchasing - I didn't buy it when it was a gigabeat, why would I buy it now? Crap is crap after all.
Let's not forget that Ms is not a company that succeeds on the strength of innovation, software brilliance or hardware design. Rather, it managed to build a world-wide monopoly on the back of an unfinished operating system bought from someone else and which it has never quite been able to fix as it scrambled to keep up with those pesky folks at Apple who kept moving the goalposts.
Who does anyone think Zune is different?
Where Stevo goes to bat with movie studios in support of low-cost movie buys, Redmond rolls over and gives the studios their beloved rental model. Where Jobs ignores major record companies who claim they should get a share of iPod sales, Microsoft will give it to them.
The battle is not about hardware/software/vision/et cetera but about content.
If the movie studios and record labels back Zune, and the only way to see and hear what you want is on a god-awful brown brick, then Microsft wins - and the rest of the world loses again.
Microsoft doesn't or at least hasn't succeeded in every market they enter. Search is one big example. Also, their share of the mobile phone market remains very small.
The Xbox has a decent portion of the market but it doesn't dominate it in the way they would like and it seems like they are not making money on it either:
I would argue that you're incorrect about search: they don't have to be number one to make money on searching. The overhead is realitively small, they can sell ad space on their search engine, they can licence their search engine, and all they have to provide is servers. That's a win. Maybe not the biggest win in the house, but still a win, and being third in a market of hundred of millions of dollars is nothing to scoff at.
Their mobile phone market remains small? I guess I disagree with that given that Palm OS's market share is declining , and considering that window's mobile is making the company money every day. Now, saying all that, I'm still eagerly awaiting the rumored Apple phone. But I still have to give MS a point for making solid profits in the mobile phone market.
Finally, it's true that they're not making huge sums of money in the hardware gaming market. But 10 million Xbox live subscribers at 60 dollars a year... well, that's easy math and honestly small numbers for a company with 30 billion dollars in spare cash. But, Xbox has become a major contender inside 5 years... arguably #2 in the market place with serious threat to Sony in the states.
Again, I'm not cheerleading here, or at least that wasn't my intent. I was simply pointing out that people should refrain from under-estimating the persistance of Microsoft. Interactivity between your Xbox, your Computer, and your Zune, wirelessly... could happen in the next generation.
Talk about having no clue! Chris Bangle is NOT the head of design for the entire BMW group. He WAS, but he's now retired to a middle level position within BMW.
He went from Head of Design for BMW, to Design Director for BMW Group. Some see it as a demotion but he now has a fairly wide swath in which to swing his machete.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deckard
My mother, for your information, had more taste in her little finger than you're likely to enjoy in your entire life; given that you listen to the advice of all those insanely well paid consultants.
I listen. Yep. Is there a problem with that? Did I advocate buying a brown Zune. Nope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deckard
Brown is brown. It has never been a particularly fashionable colour and it won't be in the future. Or are you suggesting that Apple has no idea about what's hot and what's not? I'm really sorry, but I don't see a brown iPod out there... red? yes, Green? yes, Blue? yes, Silver and black and even pink? yes, yes and yes. Let's see... shit brown? Ah... that'd be a NO. With good reason.
I'm suggesting that focus group testing showed Apple that a green iPod would sell. Focus group testing would have shown MS that a brown Zune would sell. If you believe that any large company releases a product without researching the market, you must be living on an remote island in the middle of the Pacific.
Hmm. Right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deckard
As for this unit actually being worth purchasing - I didn't buy it when it was a gigabeat, why would I buy it now? Crap is crap after all.
Fantastic. Doesn't it feel good to be an outsider, living on the edge, elusive to marketers. No-one's tellin' you what to do! Oh wait, you've bought into this whole iPod/Mac thing, though, haven't you?
He went from Head of Design for BMW, to Design Director for BMW Group. Some see it as a demotion but he now has a fairly wide swath in which to swing his machete.
I listen. Yep. Is there a problem with that? Did I advocate buying a brown Zune. Nope.
I'm suggesting that focus group testing showed Apple that a green iPod would sell. Focus group testing would have shown MS that a brown Zune would sell. If you believe that any large company releases a product without researching the market, you must be living on an remote island in the middle of the Pacific.
Hmm. Right.
Fantastic. Doesn't it feel good to be an outsider, living on the edge, elusive to marketers. No-one's tellin' you what to do! Oh wait, you've bought into this whole iPod/Mac thing, though, haven't you?
Maybe you're a Yellow Dog kinda guy.
Yeah, yeah. You're just plain boring and pretty obviously a follower.
As for my buying into the iPod/iTunes 'thing', that'd be no. I don't own an iPod and I don't use iTunes. I won't buy a Zune either.
Why? Because I actually like music. Unlike all you mp3 worshiping audio-haters out there! MP3 is the worst possible thing to happen to audio quality since the CD.
As far as Chris Bangle is concerned, it's widely regarded as the worst design error that any large organisation has ever made. And that's the result of real world data based on consumer focus groups - something you seem to put a lot of weight into! If you'd like links to the data just let me know and I'll happily forward you the refs. Anything to educate the masses.
As for the yellow dog ref, get a friggin' life dude.
Yeah, yeah. You're just plain boring and pretty obviously a follower.
As for my buying into the iPod/iTunes 'thing', that'd be no. I don't own an iPod and I don't use iTunes. I won't buy a Zune either.
Why? Because I actually like music. Unlike all you mp3 worshiping audio-haters out there! MP3 is the worst possible thing to happen to audio quality since the CD.
As far as Chris Bangle is concerned, it's widely regarded as the worst design error that any large organisation has ever made. And that's the result of real world data based on consumer focus groups - something you seem to put a lot of weight into! If you'd like links to the data just let me know and I'll happily forward you the refs. Anything to educate the masses.
As for the yellow dog ref, get a friggin' life dude.
How could I have been so wrong?!
I've been having a pointless argument with the arbiter of all that is 'cool', 'superlative', 'unique', and 'not brown' in the world.
Forgive me, I had no idea. I don't see how I missed it.
While most of you deride the fact that MS chose brown as one of the colours for the Zune, you aren't taking into account that it is, in fact, a colour which ranks high on colour forecasts.
Actually, I do work that follows color forecasting. Brown was big for summer and fall of this past season. They're a bit off. Flashier, brighter colors are coming back for Spring 2007, including reflective and metallic colors.
Actually, I do work that follows color forecasting. Brown was big for summer and fall of this past season. They're a bit off. Flashier, brighter colors are coming back for Spring 2007, including reflective and metallic colors.
Java Junky - welcome to the social! I don't think that anybody is "under-estimating the persistance of Microsoft". However, keep in mind that this is "Appleinsider". Let us know how you like the Zune!
Thanks for the welcome.
And by the way, I'm typing this thankyou from my MAC mini, and I'll be walking to work with my IPod in a matter of minutes, and oh yeah, my Mac Book Pro 17" order for my wife (shhhh!) is confirmed for Christmas, and just to sweeten the pot, I think I'm going to get her a new shuffle (the paper clip version) to replace her now aging iPod mini (hey, it's almost two years old!).
All that said to emphasise, I too am an "apple" insider. But that still doesn't change the scarriness of Microsoft and their ability to dethrone the champions.
You can go to http://www.zune.net/ to see the dismal results of Microsoft's advertising efforts.
The tagline: Welcome to the social - Yeah, that makes me want to buy it. Millions of dollars of advertising money and that is the best they can come up with. Reminds me of some crappy high school dance.
The commercials: They look like some amateur attempts at YouTube videos, and ones which would be low ranked at the bottom of the pile at that. The videos totally lack any type of energy, the music is bad, it doesn't focus on the product enough. Just some boring, depressing, confusing, astroturfed home video garbage. Compare it to the new nano completely remixed ad or the original shuffle ad. The iPod ads make me want to dance, the Zune ads make me want to slit my wrists.
Sorry, have you not seen the "MacGuy" ads? You can't say they're any better, and some of the YouTube spoofs are actually better quality than the official ones...
Yup. MS fans always like to bring up the Xbox as an example of a Microsoft product 'success', but fact is its only done well in the US (its much weaker in Europe, and you can't hardly give them away in Japan) and has lost BILLIONS of dollars for MS.
The 360? Well, there's nothing competing against it in the next-gen space yet. That changes this week, with the launch of the Playstation 3 and the Wii. Most analysts expect the PS3 to pull ahead of the 360 within a year and have dominant marketshare, just like the PS2 did.
Neither the Xbox or the 360 have been wins for Microsoft, unless you count losing billions of dollars 'a win'. I have my doubts about the Zune breaking the trend. \
Well, you're assuming that there won't be any updates to the XBOX line soon. The PS3 release is super-limited in the US and Japan and it won't be available in Europe until late spring, then also at very limited levels. So, it'll be around next summer that it's readily available, at which point a next-next-gen console from ms will be around the corner, which might make all the gamers that want the fastest thing possible think twice. Sony's delays coupled with Microsoft's foresight on releasing early could mean that they release the next gen. less than a year after sony's ps3 becomes widely available... (spring 2008 for xbox 720?)
Well, you're assuming that there won't be any updates to the XBOX line soon. The PS3 release is super-limited in the US and Japan and it won't be available in Europe until late spring, then also at very limited levels. So, it'll be around next summer that it's readily available, at which point a next-next-gen console from ms will be around the corner, which might make all the gamers that want the fastest thing possible think twice. Sony's delays coupled with Microsoft's foresight on releasing early could mean that they release the next gen. less than a year after sony's ps3 becomes widely available... (spring 2008 for xbox 720?)
Umm... no.
You can't just completely update consoles every two years (thus throwing out the old one) because people are not fond of just throwing out all their games every two years. Yes, there's backwards compatibility, but its limited (unless you're Sony, who takes great pains to ensure it). And the people who bought the last gen are then left thinking, "WTF? My almost-new shiny console is now a piece of sheeite. WTF!!" A lot of the point in going console in the first place is that you're NOT upgrading spastically (and expensively) every couple of years, like you are with PCs and their graphics cards.
If MS engages in a two-year upgrade cycle with their consoles, they will be out of the console business very, very soon. Its just the way of it.
What you might be referring to is that MS is considering releasing a new, higher line Xbox360 next year that includes an HD-DVD player. Great, but it will boost the cost and it still won't have the horsepower of a PS3.
Add to that that MS made the mistake of releasing a 'core' Xbox360 that did not have a hard drive, thus ensuring that game developers could NOT count on that feature being present on every 360, and you can see that the PS3 will be the leader of the next-gen consoles quality/features-wise, while MS tries to compete on price. Problem is, the Wii is already there.
Most analysts believe that Sony will continue to be the console leader in the PS3/360/Wii generation, and it's not hard to see why. MS will continue to throw away money on the problem, like they always do. 8)
Talk about having no clue! Chris Bangle is NOT the head of design for the entire BMW group. He WAS, but he's now retired to a middle level position within BMW.
In fact, his name is now a verb - to 'bangle' a design is (in design circles anyway) to ruin it.
Yes, I've heard much the same thing. Apparently Mr. Bangle is a very divisive figure in car styling/design circles, you either love his designs or HATE them, and the consensus is that his styling cues have actually hurt BMW some, by narrowing the potential audience.
Oh well, I'm not a beemer lover myself- I like Japanese reliability.
You can't just completely update consoles every two years
.
That's not what I wrote. Xbox was released in fall 2005, so launching a new console in Spring 2008 isn't two years. Thanks for the witty , though, always appreciated.
And with backwards compatability and maintaining development of 360 games (just like original xbox is still getting new realeases), who gets alienated? What I was saying was that the main selling point of PS3 is the hardware, which kept a lot of people from buying 360 when it came out. At that time, PS3 was supposedly just around the corner, which turned out to be a year and a half because of sony screw-ups. Microsoft could feasibly now do the exact same thing by announcing either an upgraded 360 (jack up the processor/memory/gfx card, which would be a natural, drawing from the success of the pc market in gaming) or a new product around April, when real quantities of PS3 start to arrive, thus making the gamers who are really interested in the most powerful system pause a bit.
(kind of like how many of the people that were waiting for C2D macbook pro are maybe waiting for whatever chip is put in with the release of leopard in the late winter because of the delays...)
Anyways, your wonderful message stank of fanboy, so maybe it's no use...
That's not what I wrote. Xbox was released in fall 2005, so launching a new console in Spring 2008 isn't two years.
I think I have to bite. How a two and a half year upgrade cycle is much better? The time from the original to the 360 might be excused simply because XBox was late in the cycle with new generations coming soon, but I don't think a third generation would be accepted so soon. As it is, the 360 is still not beating the PS2 in hardware sales. While the longevity of the actual hardware might be questionable, but the lifecycle of the Playstation and PS2 product ecosystems was a significantly longer in comparison.
That's not what I wrote. Xbox was released in fall 2005, so launching a new console in Spring 2008 isn't two years. Thanks for the witty , though, always appreciated.
Yes... 2 1/2 years being so VERY different from two years. Thanks for the nitpick.
Quote:
And with backwards compatability and maintaining development of 360 games (just like original xbox is still getting new realeases), who gets alienated?
All the people who laid out what was (to them) lotsa cash for something they thought would be the 'latest and greatest' for awhile? Oh, and don't put too much stock in MS's backwards-compatibility- for 360 its only for some games, not all, unlike what Sony has done. Which is another source of alienation.
Quote:
What I was saying was that the main selling point of PS3 is the hardware, which kept a lot of people from buying 360 when it came out.
More like, the PS3 hardware AND the huge library of PS2 and PS1 games that folks already have which will be playable on the PS3 AND that it can play hi-def DVDs AND the fact that Sony should have the largest software library of games once again, AND .....
Quote:
At that time, PS3 was supposedly just around the corner, which turned out to be a year and a half because of sony screw-ups. Microsoft could feasibly now do the exact same thing by announcing either an upgraded 360 (jack up the processor/memory/gfx card, which would be a natural, drawing from the success of the pc market in gaming) or a new product around April, when real quantities of PS3 start to arrive, thus making the gamers who are really interested in the most powerful system pause a bit.
Its a cute theory but it will never happen. The console market just does not work that way. You put out a new system every 2 years (oh, excuuuuuuuuse me, every 2 1/2 years ) and people go, "Oh well, why should I get this one? Maybe I'll wait for the NEXT one." And then no one ever buys anything. Or they're pissed because what they just bought is now a piece of junk.
Quote:
Anyways, your wonderful message stank of fanboy, so maybe it's no use...
Its no use because I actually work in the console industry, baby. And no one in the console industry seriously considers the possibility of such short console lifecycles, maybe because they don't want to lose a lot of customers by mimicking the PC upgrade cycle, which a lot of console gamers came to console gaming to GET AWAY from?
Look dude, I'm not tryin' to be mean, I'm just sayin' it won't happen, that's all.
Comments
Right. That's because Chris Bangle is now head of design for the entire BMW group. He'll be flame surfacing BMW, MIni and Rolls Royce now, to your stunned delight.
If you're going to make an argument, get your facts straight.
Did your mum make you wear brown velour jumpsuits when you were a child? Poor thing.
Since you know what looks good, you'll be pleasantly surprised to know that the Zune is also offered in Black and White. I guess you're shit out of luck if you're looking for mauve.
Talk about having no clue! Chris Bangle is NOT the head of design for the entire BMW group. He WAS, but he's now retired to a middle level position within BMW.
In fact, his name is now a verb - to 'bangle' a design is (in design circles anyway) to ruin it.
So, if you'd like to argue may I suggest YOU get your facts straight.
My mother, for your information, had more taste in her little finger than you're likely to enjoy in your entire life; given that you listen to the advice of all those insanely well paid consultants.
Brown is brown. It has never been a particularly fashionable colour and it won't be in the future. Or are you suggesting that Apple has no idea about what's hot and what's not? I'm really sorry, but I don't see a brown iPod out there... red? yes, Green? yes, Blue? yes, Silver and black and even pink? yes, yes and yes. Let's see... shit brown? Ah... that'd be a NO. With good reason.
As for this unit actually being worth purchasing - I didn't buy it when it was a gigabeat, why would I buy it now? Crap is crap after all.
Who does anyone think Zune is different?
Where Stevo goes to bat with movie studios in support of low-cost movie buys, Redmond rolls over and gives the studios their beloved rental model. Where Jobs ignores major record companies who claim they should get a share of iPod sales, Microsoft will give it to them.
The battle is not about hardware/software/vision/et cetera but about content.
If the movie studios and record labels back Zune, and the only way to see and hear what you want is on a god-awful brown brick, then Microsft wins - and the rest of the world loses again.
Microsoft doesn't or at least hasn't succeeded in every market they enter. Search is one big example. Also, their share of the mobile phone market remains very small.
The Xbox has a decent portion of the market but it doesn't dominate it in the way they would like and it seems like they are not making money on it either:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6140383.html
I would argue that you're incorrect about search: they don't have to be number one to make money on searching. The overhead is realitively small, they can sell ad space on their search engine, they can licence their search engine, and all they have to provide is servers. That's a win. Maybe not the biggest win in the house, but still a win, and being third in a market of hundred of millions of dollars is nothing to scoff at.
Their mobile phone market remains small? I guess I disagree with that given that Palm OS's market share is declining , and considering that window's mobile is making the company money every day. Now, saying all that, I'm still eagerly awaiting the rumored Apple phone. But I still have to give MS a point for making solid profits in the mobile phone market.
Finally, it's true that they're not making huge sums of money in the hardware gaming market. But 10 million Xbox live subscribers at 60 dollars a year... well, that's easy math and honestly small numbers for a company with 30 billion dollars in spare cash. But, Xbox has become a major contender inside 5 years... arguably #2 in the market place with serious threat to Sony in the states.
Again, I'm not cheerleading here, or at least that wasn't my intent. I was simply pointing out that people should refrain from under-estimating the persistance of Microsoft. Interactivity between your Xbox, your Computer, and your Zune, wirelessly... could happen in the next generation.
Talk about having no clue! Chris Bangle is NOT the head of design for the entire BMW group. He WAS, but he's now retired to a middle level position within BMW.
He went from Head of Design for BMW, to Design Director for BMW Group. Some see it as a demotion but he now has a fairly wide swath in which to swing his machete.
My mother, for your information, had more taste in her little finger than you're likely to enjoy in your entire life; given that you listen to the advice of all those insanely well paid consultants.
I listen. Yep. Is there a problem with that? Did I advocate buying a brown Zune. Nope.
Brown is brown. It has never been a particularly fashionable colour and it won't be in the future. Or are you suggesting that Apple has no idea about what's hot and what's not? I'm really sorry, but I don't see a brown iPod out there... red? yes, Green? yes, Blue? yes, Silver and black and even pink? yes, yes and yes. Let's see... shit brown? Ah... that'd be a NO. With good reason.
I'm suggesting that focus group testing showed Apple that a green iPod would sell. Focus group testing would have shown MS that a brown Zune would sell. If you believe that any large company releases a product without researching the market, you must be living on an remote island in the middle of the Pacific.
Hmm. Right.
As for this unit actually being worth purchasing - I didn't buy it when it was a gigabeat, why would I buy it now? Crap is crap after all.
Fantastic. Doesn't it feel good to be an outsider, living on the edge, elusive to marketers. No-one's tellin' you what to do! Oh wait, you've bought into this whole iPod/Mac thing, though, haven't you?
Maybe you're a Yellow Dog kinda guy.
He went from Head of Design for BMW, to Design Director for BMW Group. Some see it as a demotion but he now has a fairly wide swath in which to swing his machete.
I listen. Yep. Is there a problem with that? Did I advocate buying a brown Zune. Nope.
I'm suggesting that focus group testing showed Apple that a green iPod would sell. Focus group testing would have shown MS that a brown Zune would sell. If you believe that any large company releases a product without researching the market, you must be living on an remote island in the middle of the Pacific.
Hmm. Right.
Fantastic. Doesn't it feel good to be an outsider, living on the edge, elusive to marketers. No-one's tellin' you what to do! Oh wait, you've bought into this whole iPod/Mac thing, though, haven't you?
Maybe you're a Yellow Dog kinda guy.
Yeah, yeah. You're just plain boring and pretty obviously a follower.
As for my buying into the iPod/iTunes 'thing', that'd be no. I don't own an iPod and I don't use iTunes. I won't buy a Zune either.
Why? Because I actually like music. Unlike all you mp3 worshiping audio-haters out there! MP3 is the worst possible thing to happen to audio quality since the CD.
As far as Chris Bangle is concerned, it's widely regarded as the worst design error that any large organisation has ever made. And that's the result of real world data based on consumer focus groups - something you seem to put a lot of weight into! If you'd like links to the data just let me know and I'll happily forward you the refs. Anything to educate the masses.
As for the yellow dog ref, get a friggin' life dude.
Yeah, yeah. You're just plain boring and pretty obviously a follower.
As for my buying into the iPod/iTunes 'thing', that'd be no. I don't own an iPod and I don't use iTunes. I won't buy a Zune either.
Why? Because I actually like music. Unlike all you mp3 worshiping audio-haters out there! MP3 is the worst possible thing to happen to audio quality since the CD.
As far as Chris Bangle is concerned, it's widely regarded as the worst design error that any large organisation has ever made. And that's the result of real world data based on consumer focus groups - something you seem to put a lot of weight into! If you'd like links to the data just let me know and I'll happily forward you the refs. Anything to educate the masses.
As for the yellow dog ref, get a friggin' life dude.
How could I have been so wrong?!
I've been having a pointless argument with the arbiter of all that is 'cool', 'superlative', 'unique', and 'not brown' in the world.
Forgive me, I had no idea. I don't see how I missed it.
So, erm, what should we all be buying this year?
While most of you deride the fact that MS chose brown as one of the colours for the Zune, you aren't taking into account that it is, in fact, a colour which ranks high on colour forecasts.
Actually, I do work that follows color forecasting. Brown was big for summer and fall of this past season. They're a bit off. Flashier, brighter colors are coming back for Spring 2007, including reflective and metallic colors.
Actually, I do work that follows color forecasting. Brown was big for summer and fall of this past season. They're a bit off. Flashier, brighter colors are coming back for Spring 2007, including reflective and metallic colors.
So do I. It's still fall.
So do I. It's still fall.
..."Hey, the brown Zune is GREAT!...Seriously, this thing is going down like the Titanic. Or like something else after you flush..... bwahaha.
Or like something else after you flush sometimes
*KSSSHHHH* Alright people this is NOT a drill! I repeat, this is NOT a drill!!!
*KSSSHHHH* We got a FLOATER here!!!! Repeat, we got a FLOATER here!!!!!
Java Junky - welcome to the social! I don't think that anybody is "under-estimating the persistance of Microsoft". However, keep in mind that this is "Appleinsider". Let us know how you like the Zune!
Thanks for the welcome.
And by the way, I'm typing this thankyou from my MAC mini, and I'll be walking to work with my IPod in a matter of minutes, and oh yeah, my Mac Book Pro 17" order for my wife (shhhh!) is confirmed for Christmas, and just to sweeten the pot, I think I'm going to get her a new shuffle (the paper clip version) to replace her now aging iPod mini (hey, it's almost two years old!).
All that said to emphasise, I too am an "apple" insider. But that still doesn't change the scarriness of Microsoft and their ability to dethrone the champions.
Holy Beefaroni!
You can go to http://www.zune.net/ to see the dismal results of Microsoft's advertising efforts.
The tagline: Welcome to the social - Yeah, that makes me want to buy it. Millions of dollars of advertising money and that is the best they can come up with. Reminds me of some crappy high school dance.
The commercials: They look like some amateur attempts at YouTube videos, and ones which would be low ranked at the bottom of the pile at that. The videos totally lack any type of energy, the music is bad, it doesn't focus on the product enough. Just some boring, depressing, confusing, astroturfed home video garbage. Compare it to the new nano completely remixed ad or the original shuffle ad. The iPod ads make me want to dance, the Zune ads make me want to slit my wrists.
Sorry, have you not seen the "MacGuy" ads? You can't say they're any better, and some of the YouTube spoofs are actually better quality than the official ones...
Yup. MS fans always like to bring up the Xbox as an example of a Microsoft product 'success', but fact is its only done well in the US (its much weaker in Europe, and you can't hardly give them away in Japan) and has lost BILLIONS of dollars for MS.
The 360? Well, there's nothing competing against it in the next-gen space yet. That changes this week, with the launch of the Playstation 3 and the Wii. Most analysts expect the PS3 to pull ahead of the 360 within a year and have dominant marketshare, just like the PS2 did.
Neither the Xbox or the 360 have been wins for Microsoft, unless you count losing billions of dollars 'a win'. I have my doubts about the Zune breaking the trend.
Well, you're assuming that there won't be any updates to the XBOX line soon. The PS3 release is super-limited in the US and Japan and it won't be available in Europe until late spring, then also at very limited levels. So, it'll be around next summer that it's readily available, at which point a next-next-gen console from ms will be around the corner, which might make all the gamers that want the fastest thing possible think twice. Sony's delays coupled with Microsoft's foresight on releasing early could mean that they release the next gen. less than a year after sony's ps3 becomes widely available... (spring 2008 for xbox 720?)
I saw the Zune and it looks alright, in my opinion... but not enough to make me wanna switch. Yet.
I hope they come up with a better slogan. I feel like I get dumber every time I think about it.
Wecome to the...drool, thud
Well, you're assuming that there won't be any updates to the XBOX line soon. The PS3 release is super-limited in the US and Japan and it won't be available in Europe until late spring, then also at very limited levels. So, it'll be around next summer that it's readily available, at which point a next-next-gen console from ms will be around the corner, which might make all the gamers that want the fastest thing possible think twice. Sony's delays coupled with Microsoft's foresight on releasing early could mean that they release the next gen. less than a year after sony's ps3 becomes widely available... (spring 2008 for xbox 720?)
Umm... no.
You can't just completely update consoles every two years (thus throwing out the old one) because people are not fond of just throwing out all their games every two years. Yes, there's backwards compatibility, but its limited (unless you're Sony, who takes great pains to ensure it). And the people who bought the last gen are then left thinking, "WTF? My almost-new shiny console is now a piece of sheeite. WTF!!" A lot of the point in going console in the first place is that you're NOT upgrading spastically (and expensively) every couple of years, like you are with PCs and their graphics cards.
If MS engages in a two-year upgrade cycle with their consoles, they will be out of the console business very, very soon. Its just the way of it.
What you might be referring to is that MS is considering releasing a new, higher line Xbox360 next year that includes an HD-DVD player. Great, but it will boost the cost and it still won't have the horsepower of a PS3.
Add to that that MS made the mistake of releasing a 'core' Xbox360 that did not have a hard drive, thus ensuring that game developers could NOT count on that feature being present on every 360, and you can see that the PS3 will be the leader of the next-gen consoles quality/features-wise, while MS tries to compete on price. Problem is, the Wii is already there.
Most analysts believe that Sony will continue to be the console leader in the PS3/360/Wii generation, and it's not hard to see why. MS will continue to throw away money on the problem, like they always do. 8)
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Talk about having no clue! Chris Bangle is NOT the head of design for the entire BMW group. He WAS, but he's now retired to a middle level position within BMW.
In fact, his name is now a verb - to 'bangle' a design is (in design circles anyway) to ruin it.
Yes, I've heard much the same thing. Apparently Mr. Bangle is a very divisive figure in car styling/design circles, you either love his designs or HATE them, and the consensus is that his styling cues have actually hurt BMW some, by narrowing the potential audience.
Oh well, I'm not a beemer lover myself- I like Japanese reliability.
You can't just completely update consoles every two years
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That's not what I wrote. Xbox was released in fall 2005, so launching a new console in Spring 2008 isn't two years. Thanks for the witty
And with backwards compatability and maintaining development of 360 games (just like original xbox is still getting new realeases), who gets alienated? What I was saying was that the main selling point of PS3 is the hardware, which kept a lot of people from buying 360 when it came out. At that time, PS3 was supposedly just around the corner, which turned out to be a year and a half because of sony screw-ups. Microsoft could feasibly now do the exact same thing by announcing either an upgraded 360 (jack up the processor/memory/gfx card, which would be a natural, drawing from the success of the pc market in gaming) or a new product around April, when real quantities of PS3 start to arrive, thus making the gamers who are really interested in the most powerful system pause a bit.
(kind of like how many of the people that were waiting for C2D macbook pro are maybe waiting for whatever chip is put in with the release of leopard in the late winter because of the delays...)
Anyways, your wonderful message stank of fanboy, so maybe it's no use...
That's not what I wrote. Xbox was released in fall 2005, so launching a new console in Spring 2008 isn't two years.
I think I have to bite. How a two and a half year upgrade cycle is much better? The time from the original to the 360 might be excused simply because XBox was late in the cycle with new generations coming soon, but I don't think a third generation would be accepted so soon. As it is, the 360 is still not beating the PS2 in hardware sales. While the longevity of the actual hardware might be questionable, but the lifecycle of the Playstation and PS2 product ecosystems was a significantly longer in comparison.
That's not what I wrote. Xbox was released in fall 2005, so launching a new console in Spring 2008 isn't two years. Thanks for the witty
Yes... 2 1/2 years being so VERY different from two years. Thanks for the nitpick.
And with backwards compatability and maintaining development of 360 games (just like original xbox is still getting new realeases), who gets alienated?
All the people who laid out what was (to them) lotsa cash for something they thought would be the 'latest and greatest' for awhile? Oh, and don't put too much stock in MS's backwards-compatibility- for 360 its only for some games, not all, unlike what Sony has done. Which is another source of alienation.
What I was saying was that the main selling point of PS3 is the hardware, which kept a lot of people from buying 360 when it came out.
More like, the PS3 hardware AND the huge library of PS2 and PS1 games that folks already have which will be playable on the PS3 AND that it can play hi-def DVDs AND the fact that Sony should have the largest software library of games once again, AND .....
At that time, PS3 was supposedly just around the corner, which turned out to be a year and a half because of sony screw-ups. Microsoft could feasibly now do the exact same thing by announcing either an upgraded 360 (jack up the processor/memory/gfx card, which would be a natural, drawing from the success of the pc market in gaming) or a new product around April, when real quantities of PS3 start to arrive, thus making the gamers who are really interested in the most powerful system pause a bit.
Its a cute theory but it will never happen. The console market just does not work that way. You put out a new system every 2 years (oh, excuuuuuuuuse me, every 2 1/2 years
Anyways, your wonderful message stank of fanboy, so maybe it's no use...
Its no use because I actually work in the console industry, baby. And no one in the console industry seriously considers the possibility of such short console lifecycles, maybe because they don't want to lose a lot of customers by mimicking the PC upgrade cycle, which a lot of console gamers came to console gaming to GET AWAY from?
Look dude, I'm not tryin' to be mean, I'm just sayin' it won't happen, that's all.