Buying Microsoft products is like shopping at Wal-Mart--at five times the price.
no way...walmart is custermer focused and has the best return policy. all this means is ms is completely clueless let's count the ways
no vista--must not be important
alienates all the wmp downloads
brown brick--do i have to say more
brick---no style
3day 3 try sharing whooop de do
how did this company get soooooo big
any other company on a major product intro did this and layers of management would be fired with the cobra finger of trump
maybe they did this to become foder for harvard business school freshmen study guide
all the pseudo-hype just shows how most newswire pundits don't know sh--t from shinola (sorry shinola...at least you added shine style and could be shared)
Many Asian Americans were discriminated against in the US. Just because you aren't aware of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Besides this, there are many other countries were previously, Asians were that countries "Black".
Actually, most people don't know this, but when the Irish came to the US a long time ago, they were thought of (literally) as Black, even though they had very fair completion. They overcame this by discriminating against other groups of people, hence the typical "angry Irish".
like italians...my grandparents couldn't get work till they moved to a different
neighborhood now this is early 1900's but lets keep on subject
Can we please stop making comparisons to blacks? As if any group could claim comparison without being ridiculously insulting. The only asian group who ever had to put up with anything remotely comparable to what blacks were put through were the Japanese-Americans, and that was for four years, not 400. In any case, I've yet to see anything in history that would cause one to see "oriental" in the same light as "nigger" or even "colored". I can think of plenty indelicate terms and outright slurs used for East Asians in this country, but "oriental" isn't even on the radar.
You missed my point brilliantly by assuming I'm comparing any particular race to any other! I in now way equate "oriental" to "nigger" or any other word. And I didn't rate any races justification for passed injustices over any others ... if I had, Native Americans would be up there somewhere. So stop getting upset at the superficial part of the discussion.
The REAL distinction in my opinion between the use of any descriptor of a race, class, gender is partially based upon intent and partially based upon context. You can not always assume a person's intent, but you can agree on the context. That was my point with the examples.
Some very nice people in my family are of an age where "oriental" and for a few "colored" are not considered to be slurs at all, let alone major slurs. That is the terminology that they grew up with and as I've seen, they return to it when they get older and less self-conscious. They know that times have changed for the N word and for "colored" because that has been on TV for a long time. The times have changed for the term "oriental" as well, but it hasn't been nearly so high profiled for the reasons you legitimately stated (even to people here who spend hours on the internationally spanning WWW), but it is a matter of importance in our globalized world, to educate ourselves and it is incumbent upon everyone to show respect where it is deserved. That is all I am saying. This isn't comparison discrimination or reverse-discrimination. It is about respect and being informed about context. Just because "oriental" isn't on your radar doesn't mean it is not on other people's radar.
If you are not upsetting anyone with anything you say you are perhaps not saying very much.
I could easily insult you right now and here (hypothetically, say something like, "you're a blithering idiot.")
Do an honest thought experiment: Would that have got you slightly upset? If so, according to your logic, I surely must have said something of consequence?
Are you are the moderator of this "forum"? (FYI, someone earlier corrected me and pointed out in a very sarcastic way that what we have here is a "thread"..... whatever....)
If yes, then close it. If not, how about you move on to some other "forum"....
It's in Denmark of course, however if you're referring to 'New Zealand', it's in Holland and called Zeeland.
Oriental - a European term to describe East Asians is an offensive term in America whilst in Europe it isn't? As Fake Steve would put it - we invented the friggin thing.
In Europe we still use the term Oriental and it's not considered offensive at all. Slightly quaint perhaps at worst if used in it's true definition taking in North Africa, the Middle East and the Far East. eg. travelling on the Orient Express train from London to Istanbul (not Constantinople).
In Europe, if you said you were 'Asian', people would presume you were Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Nepalese and other countries near there, but not Chinese, Japanese or Korean. I'm sure that'll change though as we seem to be adopting more idiotic ideas from frigtards (oops Fake Steve again) in the US.
With the US having a comparatively small Asian (ie. non-Oriental) population I can see how the term might be adopted there but it hasn't been here. Long may it not. It's plainly useful as a term.
It's kind of weird that a term we've been using since the Roman Empire can suddenly become taboo in America. Have we got to wait another couple of thousand years before America gets renamed to not reflect it's recent European colonialist history and is returned to it's Aztec past before Cortes butchered the local populace?
Anyway, I have to say the Zune software install cracks me up. So you can't run it unless you have a Zune and an OS that's due to be obsolete in less than two weeks. It doesn't run on a Mac and you've got to use IE. Engadget's 4.5 hours to install a Zune test was funny too. Way to convert people from the iPod Microsoft. Hilarious!
Are you are the moderator of this "forum"? (FYI, someone earlier corrected me and pointed out in a very sarcastic way that what we have here is a "thread"..... whatever....)
If yes, then close it. If not, how about you move on to some other "forum"....
No, he isn't, but I'm an Admin.
I hereby proclaim that this thread return to the topic of the Zune being incompatible with Windows Vista.
We have a cozy place, called AppleOutsider, where you can move any discussion of race.
Of all the reviews I have seen, the one today from endgadget.com is by far the most substantive. Their conclusion:
"The Zune is a player riddled with a lot of small issues -- death by a thousand cuts. Do we think any particular one is a deal breaker? Well, even given our nightmarish software issues, not really. Do we think they should have worked out the kinks and sat out this holiday season? Probably, yeah. Do we think there's potential for betterment of the platform and especially the player through software updates? Given enough time, absolutely. Would we recommend the product for purchase, like, right now? Not a chance.
People wonder whether Microsoft's underdog will overtake Cupertino's reigning juggernaut this holiday season. To be honest, we wish it could, since we too are getting kind of sick of seeing the iPod on top. A one man show is only entertaining for so long. But this buying season if the question is iPod, we're afraid the answer sure isn't Zune."
I hereby proclaim that this thread return to the topic of the Zune being incompatible with Windows Vista.
We have a cozy place, called AppleOutsider, where you can move any discussion of race.
kthx.
thank you
i'm perplexed why ms would create so many barriers to an introduction....didn't they work on this a long time and this is it??? wasn't this the same group that developed the xbox??wow what a disconnect. i wonder if volume sales will be pupblished or someone has a friend at best buy or walmart that can give us the scoop. but still the ipod must keep innovating, if you throw enough stuff something will stick, the zoooon can't since it's too heavy. i looked at it at walmart the screen is nice but when you get it out of the glass case and hold it, it's such a huge design mess when compared to an ipod. maybe with vista they feel many won't upgrade for a long time therefore get another generation of zoooon put out to the public. it's baffling to say the least.
Certainly. Alongside the bloated mess that is Crapsta that will be deepthroated down the businesses and later on the consumers.
But it's good. It will keep Apple moving along on its first and second "engines" (Macs and iPods, not necessarily in that order).... And will ease (not squirt) out of Apple its One More Strategy............ To be announced initially at Macworld SF Jan2007 and which will progressively become clearer through the course of the year.
On a side note nVidia needs to get with Intel in a big way and get the GPUs down to 65nm and 45nm. The 90nm (AFAIK) GeForce 8 series is a power hogging monstrosity. AMD and ATI are lagging but by the end of 2007 they'll have some solid 65nm offerings, I suspect. [ATI will continue to release 90nm power-hungry DirectX10 cards similar to GeForce 8 series through 2007]. [AMD is fracked as far as 2007 is concerned, they're p*wned for the at least another 12 months with Core2 and beyond... I shall welcome AMD back with open arms in 2008.]
Awesome. All the more reason for me not to upgrade anything with my PC computers, just buy Leopard for iBook, and maybe $100 for a PS2 and tons of fun games off eBay. Ah, take that! Credit Card... you won't be sliding up any sexy credit-card-slidey-thingys this coming Christmas or next year!!!! I gotta get job first \
Geez I did not realize my statement will start all of this.
I must admit I am coming from an American view point. But I think its good for others to know calling a person Oriental is a touchy subject here.
For those who so ardently object you have to understand for hundreds of years for the dominant culture in the United States it was well thought that anyone who was not of European decent was inferior and not subject to the same social fairness and rule of law.
For those who say its time we move on need to realize that fair treatment of people who are not of European decent were never fully protected under the Constitutional Bill of Rights. The laws that guarantee these rights have only been in place for the last forty years.
The Civil Right Act grants by law everyone is to be treated as a human being was signed in 1964. The United States was established in 1776 but full rights as a human being by law were not guaranteed to everyone until 1964. The Civil Rights Act is up for review and has to be resigned roughly every 30 years.
The social injustice and people who supported it may be dead and dying but the problems they caused and their ramifications are still here.
You missed my point brilliantly by assuming I'm comparing any particular race to any other! I in now way equate "oriental" to "nigger" or any other word. And I didn't rate any races justification for passed injustices over any others ... if I had, Native Americans would be up there somewhere. So stop getting upset at the superficial part of the discussion.
The REAL distinction in my opinion between the use of any descriptor of a race, class, gender is partially based upon intent and partially based upon context. You can not always assume a person's intent, but you can agree on the context. That was my point with the examples.
Here's the problem: you can't agree on context when you're playing the "I don't have to explain myself, I just find it offensive, period, so shut up" game (I'm not saying you are doing this yourself, but you seem to be advocating the idea that groups should have carte blanche to do so). The comparison between ethnic descriptors isn't "the superficial part of the discussion"; it's the point. It isn't acceptable to put the N-word or "colored" off-limits just because somebody says so. It's because those words are very specifically associated with racism and segregation: one would have to be almost unfathomably culturally and historically illiterate not to know that. However, "black" has not been successfully supplanted by "African-American" (they seem to coexist, somehow) because noone has been able to show that "black" is somehow derogatory, regardless of the undeniable context of historical discrimination against black people. By the same token, though we've gotten plenty of history lessons about discrimination against East Asians, noone has yet succeeded in linking the term "oriental" to that discrimination. It's off-limits for no apparent reason; it's like saying "the Irish were discriminated against so we can't call them Irish anymore" -- huh? A lot of people have a problem with that kind of arbitrary thought-policing, and in your "globalized world", our peculiarly American obsession with it is going to increasingly bump up against the bemused indifference of foreigners who don't share our cultural baggage. And if ever there were a lesson we desperately need to learn, it's this: we Americans should be trying to adapt to them, rather than expecting the reverse.
Quote:
For those who so ardently object you have to understand for hundreds of years for the dominant culture in the United States it was well thought that anyone who was not of European decent was inferior and not subject to the same social fairness and rule of law.
Quote:
Many Asian Americans were discriminated against in the US. Just because you aren't aware of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist
Ok, I think I've made my point here. If you've actually read my posts you should know I'm aware of all of that; it's the word itself I'm talking about. At what point, and on what basis, was it decided that that word should be equated with what you've described?
Comments
oh sh*t, this is so funny i can hardly type.
Buying Microsoft products is like shopping at Wal-Mart--at five times the price.
no way...walmart is custermer focused and has the best return policy. all this means is ms is completely clueless let's count the ways
no vista--must not be important
alienates all the wmp downloads
brown brick--do i have to say more
brick---no style
3day 3 try sharing whooop de do
how did this company get soooooo big
any other company on a major product intro did this and layers of management would be fired with the cobra finger of trump
maybe they did this to become foder for harvard business school freshmen study guide
all the pseudo-hype just shows how most newswire pundits don't know sh--t from shinola (sorry shinola...at least you added shine style and could be shared)
Many Asian Americans were discriminated against in the US. Just because you aren't aware of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Besides this, there are many other countries were previously, Asians were that countries "Black".
Actually, most people don't know this, but when the Irish came to the US a long time ago, they were thought of (literally) as Black, even though they had very fair completion. They overcame this by discriminating against other groups of people, hence the typical "angry Irish".
like italians...my grandparents couldn't get work till they moved to a different
neighborhood now this is early 1900's but lets keep on subject
Can we please stop making comparisons to blacks? As if any group could claim comparison without being ridiculously insulting. The only asian group who ever had to put up with anything remotely comparable to what blacks were put through were the Japanese-Americans, and that was for four years, not 400. In any case, I've yet to see anything in history that would cause one to see "oriental" in the same light as "nigger" or even "colored". I can think of plenty indelicate terms and outright slurs used for East Asians in this country, but "oriental" isn't even on the radar.
You missed my point brilliantly by assuming I'm comparing any particular race to any other! I in now way equate "oriental" to "nigger" or any other word. And I didn't rate any races justification for passed injustices over any others ... if I had, Native Americans would be up there somewhere. So stop getting upset at the superficial part of the discussion.
The REAL distinction in my opinion between the use of any descriptor of a race, class, gender is partially based upon intent and partially based upon context. You can not always assume a person's intent, but you can agree on the context. That was my point with the examples.
Some very nice people in my family are of an age where "oriental" and for a few "colored" are not considered to be slurs at all, let alone major slurs. That is the terminology that they grew up with and as I've seen, they return to it when they get older and less self-conscious. They know that times have changed for the N word and for "colored" because that has been on TV for a long time. The times have changed for the term "oriental" as well, but it hasn't been nearly so high profiled for the reasons you legitimately stated (even to people here who spend hours on the internationally spanning WWW), but it is a matter of importance in our globalized world, to educate ourselves and it is incumbent upon everyone to show respect where it is deserved. That is all I am saying. This isn't comparison discrimination or reverse-discrimination. It is about respect and being informed about context. Just because "oriental" isn't on your radar doesn't mean it is not on other people's radar.
If you are not upsetting anyone with anything you say you are perhaps not saying very much.
I could easily insult you right now and here (hypothetically, say something like, "you're a blithering idiot.")
Do an honest thought experiment: Would that have got you slightly upset? If so, according to your logic, I surely must have said something of consequence?
isn't this about zoooon and vista....
stay on subject or move to another forum
isn't this about zoooon and vista....
Are you are the moderator of this "forum"? (FYI, someone earlier corrected me and pointed out in a very sarcastic way that what we have here is a "thread"..... whatever....)
If yes, then close it. If not, how about you move on to some other "forum"....
And where is Old Zealand anyway?!
It's in Denmark of course, however if you're referring to 'New Zealand', it's in Holland and called Zeeland.
Oriental - a European term to describe East Asians is an offensive term in America whilst in Europe it isn't? As Fake Steve would put it - we invented the friggin thing.
In Europe we still use the term Oriental and it's not considered offensive at all. Slightly quaint perhaps at worst if used in it's true definition taking in North Africa, the Middle East and the Far East. eg. travelling on the Orient Express train from London to Istanbul (not Constantinople).
In Europe, if you said you were 'Asian', people would presume you were Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Nepalese and other countries near there, but not Chinese, Japanese or Korean. I'm sure that'll change though as we seem to be adopting more idiotic ideas from frigtards (oops Fake Steve again) in the US.
With the US having a comparatively small Asian (ie. non-Oriental) population I can see how the term might be adopted there but it hasn't been here. Long may it not. It's plainly useful as a term.
It's kind of weird that a term we've been using since the Roman Empire can suddenly become taboo in America. Have we got to wait another couple of thousand years before America gets renamed to not reflect it's recent European colonialist history and is returned to it's Aztec past before Cortes butchered the local populace?
Anyway, I have to say the Zune software install cracks me up. So you can't run it unless you have a Zune and an OS that's due to be obsolete in less than two weeks. It doesn't run on a Mac and you've got to use IE. Engadget's 4.5 hours to install a Zune test was funny too. Way to convert people from the iPod Microsoft. Hilarious!
Are you are the moderator of this "forum"? (FYI, someone earlier corrected me and pointed out in a very sarcastic way that what we have here is a "thread"..... whatever....)
If yes, then close it. If not, how about you move on to some other "forum"....
No, he isn't, but I'm an Admin.
I hereby proclaim that this thread return to the topic of the Zune being incompatible with Windows Vista.
We have a cozy place, called AppleOutsider, where you can move any discussion of race.
kthx.
"The Zune is a player riddled with a lot of small issues -- death by a thousand cuts. Do we think any particular one is a deal breaker? Well, even given our nightmarish software issues, not really. Do we think they should have worked out the kinks and sat out this holiday season? Probably, yeah. Do we think there's potential for betterment of the platform and especially the player through software updates? Given enough time, absolutely. Would we recommend the product for purchase, like, right now? Not a chance.
People wonder whether Microsoft's underdog will overtake Cupertino's reigning juggernaut this holiday season. To be honest, we wish it could, since we too are getting kind of sick of seeing the iPod on top. A one man show is only entertaining for so long. But this buying season if the question is iPod, we're afraid the answer sure isn't Zune."
The whole review can be found at:
http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/15/zune-review/
No, he isn't, but I'm an Admin.
I hereby proclaim that this thread return to the topic of the Zune being incompatible with Windows Vista.
We have a cozy place, called AppleOutsider, where you can move any discussion of race.
kthx.
thank you
i'm perplexed why ms would create so many barriers to an introduction....didn't they work on this a long time and this is it??? wasn't this the same group that developed the xbox??wow what a disconnect. i wonder if volume sales will be pupblished or someone has a friend at best buy or walmart that can give us the scoop. but still the ipod must keep innovating, if you throw enough stuff something will stick, the zoooon can't since it's too heavy. i looked at it at walmart the screen is nice but when you get it out of the glass case and hold it, it's such a huge design mess when compared to an ipod. maybe with vista they feel many won't upgrade for a long time therefore get another generation of zoooon put out to the public. it's baffling to say the least.
I got this message when I tried to download/install Zune software with Firefox. No problems when using Internet Exploder instead. Are you surprised?
And..
The thought of Steve Ballmer squirting anything at anybody is just too hideous to imagine.
AHAHAHA
Thats great.
Hahahahaha. "Oh yeah baby, check out what I'm squirting ya...!! Ow.. Ahh... Ahhh yeahhhhh!!!".....
Guy on right: "OMFG Hey hey... Just chill alright... WTF!!!!! "
Guy on cell phone in the back:
"Yeah... yeah... we got it this time... He's squirting again... Yeah... It's bad this time... Reeeaallll bad..."
Guy in blue shirt:
"Get me outta here!!! Fast!!!"
It's baffling to say the least.
Certainly. Alongside the bloated mess that is Crapsta that will be deepthroated down the businesses and later on the consumers.
But it's good. It will keep Apple moving along on its first and second "engines" (Macs and iPods, not necessarily in that order).... And will ease (not squirt) out of Apple its One More Strategy............ To be announced initially at Macworld SF Jan2007 and which will progressively become clearer through the course of the year.
On a side note nVidia needs to get with Intel in a big way and get the GPUs down to 65nm and 45nm. The 90nm (AFAIK) GeForce 8 series is a power hogging monstrosity. AMD and ATI are lagging but by the end of 2007 they'll have some solid 65nm offerings, I suspect. [ATI will continue to release 90nm power-hungry DirectX10 cards similar to GeForce 8 series through 2007]. [AMD is fracked as far as 2007 is concerned, they're p*wned for the at least another 12 months with Core2 and beyond... I shall welcome AMD back with open arms in 2008.]
Awesome. All the more reason for me not to upgrade anything with my PC computers, just buy Leopard for iBook, and maybe $100 for a PS2 and tons of fun games off eBay. Ah, take that! Credit Card... you won't be sliding up any sexy credit-card-slidey-thingys this coming Christmas or next year!!!! I gotta get job first
Really!!
I must admit I am coming from an American view point. But I think its good for others to know calling a person Oriental is a touchy subject here.
For those who so ardently object you have to understand for hundreds of years for the dominant culture in the United States it was well thought that anyone who was not of European decent was inferior and not subject to the same social fairness and rule of law.
For those who say its time we move on need to realize that fair treatment of people who are not of European decent were never fully protected under the Constitutional Bill of Rights. The laws that guarantee these rights have only been in place for the last forty years.
The Civil Right Act grants by law everyone is to be treated as a human being was signed in 1964. The United States was established in 1776 but full rights as a human being by law were not guaranteed to everyone until 1964. The Civil Rights Act is up for review and has to be resigned roughly every 30 years.
The social injustice and people who supported it may be dead and dying but the problems they caused and their ramifications are still here.
You missed my point brilliantly by assuming I'm comparing any particular race to any other! I in now way equate "oriental" to "nigger" or any other word. And I didn't rate any races justification for passed injustices over any others ... if I had, Native Americans would be up there somewhere. So stop getting upset at the superficial part of the discussion.
The REAL distinction in my opinion between the use of any descriptor of a race, class, gender is partially based upon intent and partially based upon context. You can not always assume a person's intent, but you can agree on the context. That was my point with the examples.
Here's the problem: you can't agree on context when you're playing the "I don't have to explain myself, I just find it offensive, period, so shut up" game (I'm not saying you are doing this yourself, but you seem to be advocating the idea that groups should have carte blanche to do so). The comparison between ethnic descriptors isn't "the superficial part of the discussion"; it's the point. It isn't acceptable to put the N-word or "colored" off-limits just because somebody says so. It's because those words are very specifically associated with racism and segregation: one would have to be almost unfathomably culturally and historically illiterate not to know that. However, "black" has not been successfully supplanted by "African-American" (they seem to coexist, somehow) because noone has been able to show that "black" is somehow derogatory, regardless of the undeniable context of historical discrimination against black people. By the same token, though we've gotten plenty of history lessons about discrimination against East Asians, noone has yet succeeded in linking the term "oriental" to that discrimination. It's off-limits for no apparent reason; it's like saying "the Irish were discriminated against so we can't call them Irish anymore" -- huh? A lot of people have a problem with that kind of arbitrary thought-policing, and in your "globalized world", our peculiarly American obsession with it is going to increasingly bump up against the bemused indifference of foreigners who don't share our cultural baggage. And if ever there were a lesson we desperately need to learn, it's this: we Americans should be trying to adapt to them, rather than expecting the reverse.
For those who so ardently object you have to understand for hundreds of years for the dominant culture in the United States it was well thought that anyone who was not of European decent was inferior and not subject to the same social fairness and rule of law.
Many Asian Americans were discriminated against in the US. Just because you aren't aware of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist
Ok, I think I've made my point here. If you've actually read my posts you should know I'm aware of all of that; it's the word itself I'm talking about. At what point, and on what basis, was it decided that that word should be equated with what you've described?