The software emulation can be user-upgraded. The EE can't. You buy the machine, you're stuck with the installed chip forever. Besides, what's so smart about keeping around an extra chip when the Cell CPU is more than capable of handling the emulation at full speed? It adds complexity to the motherboard and does nothing most of the time, since most PS3 owners don't play old PS2 games. Why don't you castigate Apple for no longer supporting the Classic environment?
This is such a straw man. Consoles with the EE installed have flawless backwards compatibility with PS2 games, which, if you'll recall, was TOUTED as one of the key features of the PS3 way back when. In addition, consoles with the EE can play titles via software emulation every bit as well as those without - it's the same Cell processor. To act as if people being forced to use software emulation are gaining something over those with native support for PS2 games is totally delusional. My PS3 is just as capable of software emulation as yours. It's just that mine is ALSO compatible with every PS2 game, not just whatever fraction of the library Sony wants to support.
And frankly, given the state of the PS3's game library right now, I think many more people are playing PS2 games on the system then you'd think.
Then that's a tactical error on your part. Why would you posit how much money Toshiba is losing when it's easy to see the money Sony is losing?
I agree that the 99 buck HD DVD player and 3 movies is a loss leader but then again the attendees of the even have already spent hundreds on merely attending the even so it makes sense.
Murch, I don't have the figures in front of me but I seem to remember that yes Sony lost money on their gaming division but over all the company was very profitable, true not as much as the year before but still made a big bundle. Sony can afford to take the long view on the PS3 and Blu-ray. One wonders if Toshiba has the financial resources and willingness to slog it out over the next two or three years, especially with limited studio support.
Which is it? Is it just "speculation" or is it a loss leader? You can't have it both ways.
BTW, you obviously don't understand the Pink Sheets. They're almost exclusively used for companies which don't want to report information per SEC regulations governing companies on the NYSE, Nasdaq and American Stock Exchange (i.e. have something to hide). Yeah, the smaller companies claim that SEC reporting is too onerous and expensive, but that's no excuse if you're a multi-billion dollar company as Toshiba claims to be.
I thought you were talking overall and not the special. Nope...I don't understand the Pink Sheets stuff. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong or don't know something. I'm here to learn and thank you for your contribution.
OldCodger73
Yes ...how will Toshiba turn a profit? They answer must lay in China. The Chinese format mirrors the HD DVD spec with minor changes. If that format takes off Toshiba probably recoups their investment in AOD (Advanced Optical Disc) licensing. We'll see...if they don't get a studio in 2008 that was peviously BD exclusive I'd be amazed in they're around for CES 2009.
While it certainly didn't help the HD DVD camp, Blockbuster's announcement last month that it will exclusively support rival Blu-ray in 1,700 of its stores probably won't do much to end the high-definition disc format battle.
No major retailer seems intent on abandoning HD DVD right now, even though its titles are being outsold by Blu-ray at a ratio of about 2-to-1, according to numerous estimates.
"I don't see any resolution (to the format battle) coming until at least the end of the year," Envisioneering Group tech guru Richard Doherty says.
However, that projection could change quickly, he adds, if Universal -- the only major not supporting Blu-ray -- were to suddenly adopt the same dual-format approach as Warner and Paramount.
Universal officials haven't revealed anything at this point that would hint of a change in their exclusive allegiance to HD DVD.
But if U did agree to release all or part of its high-def catalog on Blu-ray, "that could shift the dynamics (of the format war) overnight," Doherty says.
Consumers who had been waiting on the sidelines for assurance that the purchase of a $499 Sony Blu-ray drive would give them access to play Blu-ray movies from every major supplier would suddenly pony up.
"So much consumer interest would open up this summer and fall that every studio would be smiling and wondering why they've been jousting all this time," he notes. "Universal may continue to place its bets (on HD DVD). But if you want revenue, you put out what consumers want. And right now consumers want Blu-ray."
So what would make U change its mind?
"We understand there is a lot of persuading going on right now," notes Doherty, who explains that as U execs make their summer travels to destinations including investment banker Herb Allen's Sun Valley media confab, counterparts on the Blu-ray side are likely saying, 'OK, let's talk.'"
For their part, U officials continue to dismiss the notion that Blu-ray has a significant market advantage, with Ken Graffeo, executive VP of HD strategic marketing for Universal Studios Home Entertainment, noting that Toshiba's HD DVD players have a 70% share of the set-top market right now (most of Blu-ray's traction has come from drives built into Sony PlayStation 3 game consoles).
He adds that the overall high-def disc market is still too underdeveloped for U -- which has spent a lot of money and time developing HD DVD bonus features -- to consider a Blu-ray shift.
"We're still at such an early stage that it's hard to gauge how (selling Blu-ray, too) would have any impact," Graffeo says. "When you sell 6 million standard-definition units of a title, and you're selling only about 70,000 in hi-def, it's hard to say, 'Wow, look at what we're leaving on the table.' "
Still, more than a year after both technologies were introduced, and with victory prognostications -- at least early on -- favoring Blu-ray, U could be pressured by factors other than consumer sales and the pushings of rival execs in Sun Valley.
"If I'm a filmmaker, and I'm going to make a movie that's going to make half of its money in home entertainment, would I want to make it at Universal, and be with the wrong format?" Doherty wonders.
Hmm. I felt the last statement here was an interesting aspect on yet another factor putting pressure on U to turn Blu. If trends keep their current path, I think Universal has no other choice but to become Blu. Thoughts?
This is such a straw man. Consoles with the EE installed have flawless backwards compatibility with PS2 games, which, if you'll recall, was TOUTED as one of the key features of the PS3 way back when. In addition, consoles with the EE can play titles via software emulation every bit as well as those without - it's the same Cell processor. To act as if people being forced to use software emulation are gaining something over those with native support for PS2 games is totally delusional. My PS3 is just as capable of software emulation as yours. It's just that mine is ALSO compatible with every PS2 game, not just whatever fraction of the library Sony wants to support.
And frankly, given the state of the PS3's game library right now, I think many more people are playing PS2 games on the system then you'd think.
Yeah, I guess Walter Slocombe knows nothing when he says he has no problems with his Euro EE-less PS3. Must be my imagination. "Every" PS2 game? Not even Sony itself makes that claim.
Yeah, I guess Walter Slocombe knows nothing when he says he has no problems with his Euro EE-less PS3. Must be my imagination. "Every" PS2 game? Not even Sony itself makes that claim.
If not 'every', than 'significantly more than your Euro-spec'. Forgive the exaggeration.
Point still stands. An original US-spec PS3 boasts much higher compatibility rates than the Euro-spec model, while simultaneously maintaining that console's software emulation capability. What's to argue? Sony saves $20 per console by leaving the EE out, but it also, and there is no way around it, cripples the backwards compatibility.
If not 'every', than 'significantly more than your Euro-spec'. Forgive the exaggeration.
Point still stands. An original US-spec PS3 boasts much higher compatibility rates than the Euro-spec model, while simultaneously maintaining that console's software emulation capability. What's to argue? Sony saves $20 per console by leaving the EE out, but it also, and there is no way around it, cripples the backwards compatibility.
Cripples, mm, Political correctness tells us we perhps shouldnt use such a word about humans.
from Apple dictionary :- cripple |?kr?p(?)l| noun 1 dated offensive a person who is unable to walk or move properly because of disability or injury to their back or legs. 2 a person who is disabled in a specified way: an emotional cripple.
So it would seem your use of the word is intended to be abusive which is fine I suppose the console can take it
But as can be seen above, the word implys an inability to walk, in applying it to the console Re backward compatibility you are implying that it is unable to play PS2 games, which is an untruth, strawmen indeed.
I think most people who buy it for games will be doing so to play the PS3 games going forward there are about 118million PS2 consoles in the world so if one was in the position of being COMPLETELY stuck with a PS2 game that isnt compatible with the PS3 im sure ebay and the like just MIGHT be an option.
either way this hardly effects the PS3s ability to play BD movies... which means its a TAD off topic
The HD DVD Promotional Group recently claimed that 74% of the market share for European high-definition DVD players is held by HD DVD, but the Blu-ray Disc Association points out that they conveniently "forgot" to include PS3s and PC drives in their count. Including those puts Blu-ray in the lead instead, with almost 95% of hardware sales.
I do believe it is off topic to discuss PS2 compatibilities of PS3....
Only valid point is that 60GB PS3 was $599 and is now available at $499 as a fire sale to move inventory until the 60GB is no longer available.
The 80GB PS3 model will replace current 60GB model at $599.
Therefore, PS3 will likely play less role as a Blu-Ray player once the standalone Blu-Ray players will be available at below PS3 cost, and hopefully with fully BD compatible specs.
Tartan Video has announced that they will support Blu-ray exclusively for high definition movies, and will release three of their most popular titles this fall. First up will be Paul Verhoeven's 'Black Book' and a 50th Anniversary Edition of the classic film 'The Seventh Seal' on August 27th in the UK (Black Book: September 25th in the US). A few weeks later, the thriller 'Oldboy' will be released on September 24th.
In the UK, these films will utilize AVC video encoding with DTS Master Audio, and also include the DVD version bundled with the disc (no word on how Sony Pictures will be releasing the films in the US). Tartan Video has an excellent library of classic films from all over the world, and they are a welcome addition to the Blu-ray family.
In an article over at IGN, anime distributor FUNimation Entertainment has revealed that they will support Blu-ray exclusively for high definition movie content. The company, most notably associated with 'Full Metal Alchemist', stated their intent to deliver content on Blu-ray by the end of the year. This decision came after 18 months of researching both formats.
Ward Thomas, Senior VP of Sales and Operations at FUNimation commented, "We started researching this about a year-and-a-half ago, actually. We feel that the fanbase and our customers are very much trailblazers on the technology side, so it's something we wanted to get involved in right away. We really felt that the introduction of the PlayStation 3 last year was kind of a foray for our customers and fans to at least get into the next-gen platforms."
Look news of FUNimation Blu-ray releases soon.
And speaking of Halloween here's another Blu-ray exclusive...
Starz Home Entertainment has revealed their first wave of high definition titles coming exclusively to Blu-ray. On October 2nd, they will release 'Dawn of the Dead', 'Day of the Dead', 'Halloween', and 'Evil Dead II' followed the next month by 'Beowulf & Grendel' on November 6th. Specs have yet to be finalized, though sources say PCM audio is being considered.
I don't know about you, but the exclusivity hits to HD DVD just keep on comin...
Cripples, mm, Political correctness tells us we perhps shouldnt use such a word about humans.
from Apple dictionary :- cripple |?kr?p(?)l| noun 1 dated offensive a person who is unable to walk or move properly because of disability or injury to their back or legs. 2 a person who is disabled in a specified way: an emotional cripple.
So it would seem your use of the word is intended to be abusive which is fine I suppose the console can take it
But as can be seen above, the word implys an inability to walk, in applying it to the console Re backward compatibility you are implying that it is unable to play PS2 games, which is an untruth, strawmen indeed.
I think most people who buy it for games will be doing so to play the PS3 games going forward there are about 118million PS2 consoles in the world so if one was in the position of being COMPLETELY stuck with a PS2 game that isnt compatible with the PS3 im sure ebay and the like just MIGHT be an option.
either way this hardly effects the PS3s ability to play BD movies... which means its a TAD off topic
Yeah, agreed. Perhaps the term 'half-assed' or 'inferior' would be more appropriate. Whichever. ;P
Regardless, given the current state of the PS3 library, if gaming were your primary concern you could get the vast majority of the titles on the 360 as well - buying a PS3 for the games right now is like buying a Mac for games - you can do it, but if that's your only goal there are much better alternatives. And I think that most PS2 owners who bought a PS3 were happy to be able to supplant one with the other, rather than having two pieces of hardware where one would (or should) suffice.
Regardless, we're off topic. Back to Blu-ray/HD-DVD FUD.
I do believe it is off topic to discuss PS2 compatibilities of PS3....
Only valid point is that 60GB PS3 was $599 and is now available at $499 as a fire sale to move inventory until the 60GB is no longer available.
The 80GB PS3 model will replace current 60GB model at $599.
Therefore, PS3 will likely play less role as a Blu-Ray player once the standalone Blu-Ray players will be available at below PS3 cost, and hopefully with fully BD compatible specs.
There is no way the 80gb version will be $599 - they are just saying that now so that they can sell the 60gb version. The 80gb version will be $499 also, just wait and see - they save on the ps2 chip, and the 80gb drive is the same price as the 60gb drive, no way it will be $100 more.
I just ordered a 60gb version as a "40th birthday present to myself", though, because I wanted to get in before ps2 emulation is done in software. I can always upgrade the hard drive later, if needed.
There is no way the 80gb version will be $599 - they are just saying that now so that they can sell the 60gb version. The 80gb version will be $499 also, just wait and see - they save on the ps2 chip, and the 80gb drive is the same price as the 60gb drive, no way it will be $100 more.
Don't forget that the 80 is also bundled with a couple of extras right now. Stripping them out when the 60s have sold out can easily drop the price. Even if they do keep the $599 price for now, it will drop by Black Friday, no doubt about it.
By the way, I notice Murch has been conspicuously silent about his beloved Amazon rankings at eproductwars.com. I don't know what happened, but HD DVD went into freefall two days ago. Blu-ray also saw a decline, but it was shallow. The HD DVD supporters always say their sales figures are cyclical, but if your cycles are always from bad to worse and back to merely bad, that's nothing to brag about.
Don't forget that the 80 is also bundled with a couple of extras right now. Stripping them out when the 60s have sold out can easily drop the price. Even if they do keep the $599 price for now, it will drop by Black Friday, no doubt about it.
By the way, I notice Murch has been conspicuously silent about his beloved Amazon rankings at eproductwars.com. I don't know what happened, but HD DVD went into freefall two days ago. Blu-ray also saw a decline, but it was shallow. The HD DVD supporters always say their sales figures are cyclical, but if your cycles are always from bad to worse and back to merely bad, that's nothing to brag about.
I'm sure hes just busy
But thanks for the laugh!! I havent been near eproduct wars in a while, but you prompted me to take a look see, and guess what?
while the beloved Planet earth on HD-DVD is "only" Ranking 16
oh how the mighty are fallen, oh how I laughed
Still I suppose its only to be expected the "Red" planet Earth has had a danged good run! and I'm sure by now everyone who wanted it will have bought it, so its only to be expected for it to drop, so it will be interesting to see what the next big seller will be .. 300 anyone?
So we've seen that HD DVD is losing at Amazon. We've seen it's losing on Nielsen Videoscan. Add more fuel to the fire: DVD Empire's numbers by the week. Nearly 4:1 this past week. Ouch. Meanwhile, Wal-Mart is promoting a Blu-ray special offer of its own along with a big in-store marketing push and reports are that HD DVD displays have shrunk in the stores. Can the news get much worse for HD DVD?
I suppose worse news could be Universal announcing neutrality, but that won't happen soon. There was an article in the New York Times yesterday about Ron Meyer, the president of Universal. He's happy with Universal being in only sixth place among the major studios and doesn't want to move up. Hmm. That explains a lot with their HD stance.
The format war, besides turning consumers into non buyers, also hurts another way-- stores reluctant to commit much shelf space to the competing formats.
Our local Fred Meyers has a nice selection of DVDs. BD and HD-DVDs are hidden in a corner and not even labeled with what they are, they're called "Promotional". There were four HD-DVD titles, three of which were total dogs. BD had ten titles.
I couldn't find the BD/HD-DVD section at all in the Lynnwood Circuit City. It must have been there somewhere but I sure couldn't find it. I was under time constraints so I didn't bother to take the time to hunt down and ask a salesperson.
The Everett Best Buy has a large DVD section and a small three sections of five shelves each for BD/HD-DVD. These are signed "Next Generation DVDs". There were eight shelves of BD and seven of HD-DVD. Because of the limited shelf space, selection of titles was spotty, for example they didn't have the BD "The Untouchables".
The commitment of the above merchants doesn't really inspire much confidence for the widespread adoption of a HD format in the general consumer market.
The format war, besides turning consumers into non buyers, also hurts another way-- stores reluctant to commit much shelf space to the competing formats.
No argument there. Damn near everybody wants the war to end with one clear victor. Except for a select few who either just like to see conflict, thinks it pushes prices down if there's competition between two formats, or just are desperately clinging to the hope that if HD DVD can just hold on, it can still miraculously pull off the CE comeback of the century. I'm still wondering where that HD DVD burner is that all the tech blogs were proclaiming Toshiba "shipped" (announced for the first or second but definitely not last time) way back in January. Or the NEC burner announced in March.
The format war, besides turning consumers into non buyers, also hurts another way-- stores reluctant to commit much shelf space to the competing formats.
Our local Fred Meyers has a nice selection of DVDs. BD and HD-DVDs are hidden in a corner and not even labeled with what they are, they're called "Promotional". There were four HD-DVD titles, three of which were total dogs. BD had ten titles.
I couldn't find the BD/HD-DVD section at all in the Lynnwood Circuit City. It must have been there somewhere but I sure couldn't find it. I was under time constraints so I didn't bother to take the time to hunt down and ask a salesperson.
The Everett Best Buy has a large DVD section and a small three sections of five shelves each for BD/HD-DVD. These are signed "Next Generation DVDs". There were eight shelves of BD and seven of HD-DVD. Because of the limited shelf space, selection of titles was spotty, for example they didn't have the BD "The Untouchables".
The commitment of the above merchants doesn't really inspire much confidence for the widespread adoption of a HD format in the general consumer market.
Well.... if all the stores carried every BD or HD-DVD movies, then the HiDef market would definitely not be a niche, but it is..... so it's expected to be scarce from the average stores... Even at the officially BD supporting BlockBuster stores are scarce for Blu-Ray movie support. Only about handful of Blockbuster stores carry Blu-Ray right now, but most of the same stores also carry HD-DVD's. I still haven't heard any additional Blockbuster stores carrying Blu-Ray exclusively.
It's only been about a year since the launch and I actually think the HiDef movie market is doing much better than the HiDef Audio did before it became the silent formats.
Have a little more patient and faith in the technology. Within year or two... HiDef formats would become the preferred format over the SD-DVD within the techie folks. Then J6P would follow once the price really drops at the current SD-DVD hardware and software level. Don't forget that it's now harder to find SDTV's over the 720p/768p/1080p displays these days and the prices have gone down so much that $1000 on a deal can get you 42" wide screen LCD displays now.... The SDTV days are almost over and so would SD-DVD's, once the price of HiDef hardware and software prices are on par with SD-DVD's. Since all the HiDef format hardwares being backwards compatible with SD-DVD playback, I don't see why would anyone still choose SD-DVD over the HiDef format hardwares and softwares in the near future, especially when HDTV's are soon to be the only purchasing choice from the J6P stores.
Ok, time for me to weigh in after taking a few dozen page hiatus from posting to the thread.
I've been hoping that neither format would win. From the beginning, I've felt that the formats were designed without the consumer's best interests in mind.
We could have easily been watching a next gen format by now, and for the same cost as SD dvds. But instead hollywood had to justify new digital restrictions management. The only way to possible sell that was to increase disc capacity and drop backward compatability.
Consumers would have been better served by a more aggressive codec on the same physical media. Then when the next-gen technology was actually ready, and for a reasonable price, people would be interested in a Super-Duper-HD (but backward compatible) player.
But you're probably not interested in that stance anymore...
If I had to choose one over the other, my original preference would have been for HD-DVD to win. I'm a proponent of cheap hardware.
But at this point, it looks like Blu-Ray has pulled ahead. Why I'm not really sure. From a movie watching standpoint to your average joe, the only difference between the platforms is the price of the players.
It will be interesting to look back and try to figure out how big of a role the PS3 played. Also, it will be interesting to see how the PS3 is perceived. Will the inclusion of an expensive drive stagnate the gaming platform and hurt sony? Or will that be outweighed by their triumph in the next-gen media war?
Granted, at this point, even with Blu-Ray in the lead, it could still easily go either way. Consumers have yet to buy either format in significant volume.
Comments
The software emulation can be user-upgraded. The EE can't. You buy the machine, you're stuck with the installed chip forever. Besides, what's so smart about keeping around an extra chip when the Cell CPU is more than capable of handling the emulation at full speed? It adds complexity to the motherboard and does nothing most of the time, since most PS3 owners don't play old PS2 games. Why don't you castigate Apple for no longer supporting the Classic environment?
This is such a straw man. Consoles with the EE installed have flawless backwards compatibility with PS2 games, which, if you'll recall, was TOUTED as one of the key features of the PS3 way back when. In addition, consoles with the EE can play titles via software emulation every bit as well as those without - it's the same Cell processor. To act as if people being forced to use software emulation are gaining something over those with native support for PS2 games is totally delusional. My PS3 is just as capable of software emulation as yours. It's just that mine is ALSO compatible with every PS2 game, not just whatever fraction of the library Sony wants to support.
And frankly, given the state of the PS3's game library right now, I think many more people are playing PS2 games on the system then you'd think.
Then that's a tactical error on your part. Why would you posit how much money Toshiba is losing when it's easy to see the money Sony is losing?
I agree that the 99 buck HD DVD player and 3 movies is a loss leader but then again the attendees of the even have already spent hundreds on merely attending the even so it makes sense.
Murch, I don't have the figures in front of me but I seem to remember that yes Sony lost money on their gaming division but over all the company was very profitable, true not as much as the year before but still made a big bundle. Sony can afford to take the long view on the PS3 and Blu-ray. One wonders if Toshiba has the financial resources and willingness to slog it out over the next two or three years, especially with limited studio support.
Typical. Can't you ever say, "Okay, I was wrong"?
I wrote:
To which you very specifically responded:
Now you write:
Which is it? Is it just "speculation" or is it a loss leader? You can't have it both ways.
BTW, you obviously don't understand the Pink Sheets. They're almost exclusively used for companies which don't want to report information per SEC regulations governing companies on the NYSE, Nasdaq and American Stock Exchange (i.e. have something to hide). Yeah, the smaller companies claim that SEC reporting is too onerous and expensive, but that's no excuse if you're a multi-billion dollar company as Toshiba claims to be.
I thought you were talking overall and not the special. Nope...I don't understand the Pink Sheets stuff. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong or don't know something. I'm here to learn and thank you for your contribution.
OldCodger73
Yes ...how will Toshiba turn a profit? They answer must lay in China. The Chinese format mirrors the HD DVD spec with minor changes. If that format takes off Toshiba probably recoups their investment in AOD (Advanced Optical Disc) licensing. We'll see...if they don't get a studio in 2008 that was peviously BD exclusive I'd be amazed in they're around for CES 2009.
SO
This is an Apple site, so will this discussion be invalid if Apple picks ONE format only?
or is it all about the format(s) succeding
or is it all about how one might dominate and one linger on till the bitter end?
OR
when Toshiba announce they are going to make BD players?
OR
when hell freezes over*
OR
in the sad event of Maz or Murchs deaths?
OR
ahh who cares
but some direction would be useful eh?
*hell as a concept and or location
Blu-ray selling twice as many titles as HD DVD
http://www.variety.com/article/VR111...goryid=20&cs=1
While it certainly didn't help the HD DVD camp, Blockbuster's announcement last month that it will exclusively support rival Blu-ray in 1,700 of its stores probably won't do much to end the high-definition disc format battle.
No major retailer seems intent on abandoning HD DVD right now, even though its titles are being outsold by Blu-ray at a ratio of about 2-to-1, according to numerous estimates.
"I don't see any resolution (to the format battle) coming until at least the end of the year," Envisioneering Group tech guru Richard Doherty says.
However, that projection could change quickly, he adds, if Universal -- the only major not supporting Blu-ray -- were to suddenly adopt the same dual-format approach as Warner and Paramount.
Universal officials haven't revealed anything at this point that would hint of a change in their exclusive allegiance to HD DVD.
But if U did agree to release all or part of its high-def catalog on Blu-ray, "that could shift the dynamics (of the format war) overnight," Doherty says.
Consumers who had been waiting on the sidelines for assurance that the purchase of a $499 Sony Blu-ray drive would give them access to play Blu-ray movies from every major supplier would suddenly pony up.
"So much consumer interest would open up this summer and fall that every studio would be smiling and wondering why they've been jousting all this time," he notes. "Universal may continue to place its bets (on HD DVD). But if you want revenue, you put out what consumers want. And right now consumers want Blu-ray."
So what would make U change its mind?
"We understand there is a lot of persuading going on right now," notes Doherty, who explains that as U execs make their summer travels to destinations including investment banker Herb Allen's Sun Valley media confab, counterparts on the Blu-ray side are likely saying, 'OK, let's talk.'"
For their part, U officials continue to dismiss the notion that Blu-ray has a significant market advantage, with Ken Graffeo, executive VP of HD strategic marketing for Universal Studios Home Entertainment, noting that Toshiba's HD DVD players have a 70% share of the set-top market right now (most of Blu-ray's traction has come from drives built into Sony PlayStation 3 game consoles).
He adds that the overall high-def disc market is still too underdeveloped for U -- which has spent a lot of money and time developing HD DVD bonus features -- to consider a Blu-ray shift.
"We're still at such an early stage that it's hard to gauge how (selling Blu-ray, too) would have any impact," Graffeo says. "When you sell 6 million standard-definition units of a title, and you're selling only about 70,000 in hi-def, it's hard to say, 'Wow, look at what we're leaving on the table.' "
Still, more than a year after both technologies were introduced, and with victory prognostications -- at least early on -- favoring Blu-ray, U could be pressured by factors other than consumer sales and the pushings of rival execs in Sun Valley.
"If I'm a filmmaker, and I'm going to make a movie that's going to make half of its money in home entertainment, would I want to make it at Universal, and be with the wrong format?" Doherty wonders.
Hmm. I felt the last statement here was an interesting aspect on yet another factor putting pressure on U to turn Blu. If trends keep their current path, I think Universal has no other choice but to become Blu. Thoughts?
This is such a straw man. Consoles with the EE installed have flawless backwards compatibility with PS2 games, which, if you'll recall, was TOUTED as one of the key features of the PS3 way back when. In addition, consoles with the EE can play titles via software emulation every bit as well as those without - it's the same Cell processor. To act as if people being forced to use software emulation are gaining something over those with native support for PS2 games is totally delusional. My PS3 is just as capable of software emulation as yours. It's just that mine is ALSO compatible with every PS2 game, not just whatever fraction of the library Sony wants to support.
And frankly, given the state of the PS3's game library right now, I think many more people are playing PS2 games on the system then you'd think.
Yeah, I guess Walter Slocombe knows nothing when he says he has no problems with his Euro EE-less PS3. Must be my imagination. "Every" PS2 game? Not even Sony itself makes that claim.
Yeah, I guess Walter Slocombe knows nothing when he says he has no problems with his Euro EE-less PS3. Must be my imagination. "Every" PS2 game? Not even Sony itself makes that claim.
If not 'every', than 'significantly more than your Euro-spec'. Forgive the exaggeration.
Point still stands. An original US-spec PS3 boasts much higher compatibility rates than the Euro-spec model, while simultaneously maintaining that console's software emulation capability. What's to argue? Sony saves $20 per console by leaving the EE out, but it also, and there is no way around it, cripples the backwards compatibility.
If not 'every', than 'significantly more than your Euro-spec'. Forgive the exaggeration.
Point still stands. An original US-spec PS3 boasts much higher compatibility rates than the Euro-spec model, while simultaneously maintaining that console's software emulation capability. What's to argue? Sony saves $20 per console by leaving the EE out, but it also, and there is no way around it, cripples the backwards compatibility.
Cripples, mm, Political correctness tells us we perhps shouldnt use such a word about humans.
from Apple dictionary :- cripple |?kr?p(?)l| noun 1 dated offensive a person who is unable to walk or move properly because of disability or injury to their back or legs. 2 a person who is disabled in a specified way: an emotional cripple.
So it would seem your use of the word is intended to be abusive
But as can be seen above, the word implys an inability to walk, in applying it to the console Re backward compatibility you are implying that it is unable to play PS2 games, which is an untruth, strawmen indeed.
I think most people who buy it for games will be doing so to play the PS3 games going forward there are about 118million PS2 consoles in the world so if one was in the position of being COMPLETELY stuck with a PS2 game that isnt compatible with the PS3 im sure ebay and the like just MIGHT be an option.
either way this hardly effects the PS3s ability to play BD movies... which means its a TAD off topic
{insert your own witty comment about murch and engaget here}
http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/16/b...uropean-sales/
The HD DVD Promotional Group recently claimed that 74% of the market share for European high-definition DVD players is held by HD DVD, but the Blu-ray Disc Association points out that they conveniently "forgot" to include PS3s and PC drives in their count. Including those puts Blu-ray in the lead instead, with almost 95% of hardware sales.
dontcha love statistics
Only valid point is that 60GB PS3 was $599 and is now available at $499 as a fire sale to move inventory until the 60GB is no longer available.
The 80GB PS3 model will replace current 60GB model at $599.
Therefore, PS3 will likely play less role as a Blu-Ray player once the standalone Blu-Ray players will be available at below PS3 cost, and hopefully with fully BD compatible specs.
Tartan Video Exclusively Blu-ray
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=313
Tartan Video has announced that they will support Blu-ray exclusively for high definition movies, and will release three of their most popular titles this fall. First up will be Paul Verhoeven's 'Black Book' and a 50th Anniversary Edition of the classic film 'The Seventh Seal' on August 27th in the UK (Black Book: September 25th in the US). A few weeks later, the thriller 'Oldboy' will be released on September 24th.
In the UK, these films will utilize AVC video encoding with DTS Master Audio, and also include the DVD version bundled with the disc (no word on how Sony Pictures will be releasing the films in the US). Tartan Video has an excellent library of classic films from all over the world, and they are a welcome addition to the Blu-ray family.
FUNimation Goes Blu-ray Too
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=314
In an article over at IGN, anime distributor FUNimation Entertainment has revealed that they will support Blu-ray exclusively for high definition movie content. The company, most notably associated with 'Full Metal Alchemist', stated their intent to deliver content on Blu-ray by the end of the year. This decision came after 18 months of researching both formats.
Ward Thomas, Senior VP of Sales and Operations at FUNimation commented, "We started researching this about a year-and-a-half ago, actually. We feel that the fanbase and our customers are very much trailblazers on the technology side, so it's something we wanted to get involved in right away. We really felt that the introduction of the PlayStation 3 last year was kind of a foray for our customers and fans to at least get into the next-gen platforms."
Look news of FUNimation Blu-ray releases soon.
And speaking of Halloween here's another Blu-ray exclusive...
Horror Dated: Starz Reveals First Wave of Blu
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=319
Starz Home Entertainment has revealed their first wave of high definition titles coming exclusively to Blu-ray. On October 2nd, they will release 'Dawn of the Dead', 'Day of the Dead', 'Halloween', and 'Evil Dead II' followed the next month by 'Beowulf & Grendel' on November 6th. Specs have yet to be finalized, though sources say PCM audio is being considered.
I don't know about you, but the exclusivity hits to HD DVD just keep on comin...
Cripples, mm, Political correctness tells us we perhps shouldnt use such a word about humans.
from Apple dictionary :- cripple |?kr?p(?)l| noun 1 dated offensive a person who is unable to walk or move properly because of disability or injury to their back or legs. 2 a person who is disabled in a specified way: an emotional cripple.
So it would seem your use of the word is intended to be abusive
But as can be seen above, the word implys an inability to walk, in applying it to the console Re backward compatibility you are implying that it is unable to play PS2 games, which is an untruth, strawmen indeed.
I think most people who buy it for games will be doing so to play the PS3 games going forward there are about 118million PS2 consoles in the world so if one was in the position of being COMPLETELY stuck with a PS2 game that isnt compatible with the PS3 im sure ebay and the like just MIGHT be an option.
either way this hardly effects the PS3s ability to play BD movies... which means its a TAD off topic
Yeah, agreed. Perhaps the term 'half-assed' or 'inferior' would be more appropriate. Whichever. ;P
Regardless, given the current state of the PS3 library, if gaming were your primary concern you could get the vast majority of the titles on the 360 as well - buying a PS3 for the games right now is like buying a Mac for games - you can do it, but if that's your only goal there are much better alternatives. And I think that most PS2 owners who bought a PS3 were happy to be able to supplant one with the other, rather than having two pieces of hardware where one would (or should) suffice.
Regardless, we're off topic. Back to Blu-ray/HD-DVD FUD.
I do believe it is off topic to discuss PS2 compatibilities of PS3....
Only valid point is that 60GB PS3 was $599 and is now available at $499 as a fire sale to move inventory until the 60GB is no longer available.
The 80GB PS3 model will replace current 60GB model at $599.
Therefore, PS3 will likely play less role as a Blu-Ray player once the standalone Blu-Ray players will be available at below PS3 cost, and hopefully with fully BD compatible specs.
There is no way the 80gb version will be $599 - they are just saying that now so that they can sell the 60gb version. The 80gb version will be $499 also, just wait and see - they save on the ps2 chip, and the 80gb drive is the same price as the 60gb drive, no way it will be $100 more.
I just ordered a 60gb version as a "40th birthday present to myself", though, because I wanted to get in before ps2 emulation is done in software. I can always upgrade the hard drive later, if needed.
There is no way the 80gb version will be $599 - they are just saying that now so that they can sell the 60gb version. The 80gb version will be $499 also, just wait and see - they save on the ps2 chip, and the 80gb drive is the same price as the 60gb drive, no way it will be $100 more.
Don't forget that the 80 is also bundled with a couple of extras right now. Stripping them out when the 60s have sold out can easily drop the price. Even if they do keep the $599 price for now, it will drop by Black Friday, no doubt about it.
By the way, I notice Murch has been conspicuously silent about his beloved Amazon rankings at eproductwars.com. I don't know what happened, but HD DVD went into freefall two days ago. Blu-ray also saw a decline, but it was shallow. The HD DVD supporters always say their sales figures are cyclical, but if your cycles are always from bad to worse and back to merely bad, that's nothing to brag about.
Don't forget that the 80 is also bundled with a couple of extras right now. Stripping them out when the 60s have sold out can easily drop the price. Even if they do keep the $599 price for now, it will drop by Black Friday, no doubt about it.
By the way, I notice Murch has been conspicuously silent about his beloved Amazon rankings at eproductwars.com. I don't know what happened, but HD DVD went into freefall two days ago. Blu-ray also saw a decline, but it was shallow. The HD DVD supporters always say their sales figures are cyclical, but if your cycles are always from bad to worse and back to merely bad, that's nothing to brag about.
I'm sure hes just busy
But thanks for the laugh!! I havent been near eproduct wars in a while, but you prompted me to take a look see, and guess what?
Resident Evil Apocalypse BLU-RAY! Amazon ranking No. 5
while the beloved Planet earth on HD-DVD is "only" Ranking 16
oh how the mighty are fallen, oh how I laughed
Still I suppose its only to be expected the "Red" planet Earth has had a danged good run! and I'm sure by now everyone who wanted it will have bought it, so its only to be expected for it to drop, so it will be interesting to see what the next big seller will be .. 300 anyone?
I suppose worse news could be Universal announcing neutrality, but that won't happen soon. There was an article in the New York Times yesterday about Ron Meyer, the president of Universal. He's happy with Universal being in only sixth place among the major studios and doesn't want to move up. Hmm. That explains a lot with their HD stance.
Our local Fred Meyers has a nice selection of DVDs. BD and HD-DVDs are hidden in a corner and not even labeled with what they are, they're called "Promotional". There were four HD-DVD titles, three of which were total dogs. BD had ten titles.
I couldn't find the BD/HD-DVD section at all in the Lynnwood Circuit City. It must have been there somewhere but I sure couldn't find it. I was under time constraints so I didn't bother to take the time to hunt down and ask a salesperson.
The Everett Best Buy has a large DVD section and a small three sections of five shelves each for BD/HD-DVD. These are signed "Next Generation DVDs". There were eight shelves of BD and seven of HD-DVD. Because of the limited shelf space, selection of titles was spotty, for example they didn't have the BD "The Untouchables".
The commitment of the above merchants doesn't really inspire much confidence for the widespread adoption of a HD format in the general consumer market.
The format war, besides turning consumers into non buyers, also hurts another way-- stores reluctant to commit much shelf space to the competing formats.
No argument there. Damn near everybody wants the war to end with one clear victor. Except for a select few who either just like to see conflict, thinks it pushes prices down if there's competition between two formats, or just are desperately clinging to the hope that if HD DVD can just hold on, it can still miraculously pull off the CE comeback of the century. I'm still wondering where that HD DVD burner is that all the tech blogs were proclaiming Toshiba "shipped" (announced for the first or second but definitely not last time) way back in January. Or the NEC burner announced in March.
The format war, besides turning consumers into non buyers, also hurts another way-- stores reluctant to commit much shelf space to the competing formats.
Our local Fred Meyers has a nice selection of DVDs. BD and HD-DVDs are hidden in a corner and not even labeled with what they are, they're called "Promotional". There were four HD-DVD titles, three of which were total dogs. BD had ten titles.
I couldn't find the BD/HD-DVD section at all in the Lynnwood Circuit City. It must have been there somewhere but I sure couldn't find it. I was under time constraints so I didn't bother to take the time to hunt down and ask a salesperson.
The Everett Best Buy has a large DVD section and a small three sections of five shelves each for BD/HD-DVD. These are signed "Next Generation DVDs". There were eight shelves of BD and seven of HD-DVD. Because of the limited shelf space, selection of titles was spotty, for example they didn't have the BD "The Untouchables".
The commitment of the above merchants doesn't really inspire much confidence for the widespread adoption of a HD format in the general consumer market.
Well.... if all the stores carried every BD or HD-DVD movies, then the HiDef market would definitely not be a niche, but it is..... so it's expected to be scarce from the average stores... Even at the officially BD supporting BlockBuster stores are scarce for Blu-Ray movie support. Only about handful of Blockbuster stores carry Blu-Ray right now, but most of the same stores also carry HD-DVD's. I still haven't heard any additional Blockbuster stores carrying Blu-Ray exclusively.
It's only been about a year since the launch and I actually think the HiDef movie market is doing much better than the HiDef Audio did before it became the silent formats.
Have a little more patient and faith in the technology. Within year or two... HiDef formats would become the preferred format over the SD-DVD within the techie folks. Then J6P would follow once the price really drops at the current SD-DVD hardware and software level. Don't forget that it's now harder to find SDTV's over the 720p/768p/1080p displays these days and the prices have gone down so much that $1000 on a deal can get you 42" wide screen LCD displays now.... The SDTV days are almost over and so would SD-DVD's, once the price of HiDef hardware and software prices are on par with SD-DVD's. Since all the HiDef format hardwares being backwards compatible with SD-DVD playback, I don't see why would anyone still choose SD-DVD over the HiDef format hardwares and softwares in the near future, especially when HDTV's are soon to be the only purchasing choice from the J6P stores.
I've been hoping that neither format would win. From the beginning, I've felt that the formats were designed without the consumer's best interests in mind.
We could have easily been watching a next gen format by now, and for the same cost as SD dvds. But instead hollywood had to justify new digital restrictions management. The only way to possible sell that was to increase disc capacity and drop backward compatability.
Consumers would have been better served by a more aggressive codec on the same physical media. Then when the next-gen technology was actually ready, and for a reasonable price, people would be interested in a Super-Duper-HD (but backward compatible) player.
But you're probably not interested in that stance anymore...
If I had to choose one over the other, my original preference would have been for HD-DVD to win. I'm a proponent of cheap hardware.
But at this point, it looks like Blu-Ray has pulled ahead. Why I'm not really sure. From a movie watching standpoint to your average joe, the only difference between the platforms is the price of the players.
It will be interesting to look back and try to figure out how big of a role the PS3 played. Also, it will be interesting to see how the PS3 is perceived. Will the inclusion of an expensive drive stagnate the gaming platform and hurt sony? Or will that be outweighed by their triumph in the next-gen media war?
Granted, at this point, even with Blu-Ray in the lead, it could still easily go either way. Consumers have yet to buy either format in significant volume.