The European HD DVD Promotional Group has refused to back up claims that the next-generation optical disc format it's backing is the movie buff's favourite by revealing how many HD DVD players have been bought over here.
Register Hardware asked it this question because earlier this week the organisation announced that numbers garnered independently by local market watcher GfK showed that 3.8 HD DVD discs have been sold for every player purchased in the UK, France, Germany, Spain, Italy and the Benelux countries.
By contrast, only 0.6 Blu-ray Discs have been sold for every BD-capable player and console bought in those regions.
So HD DVD is the most popular format then? Well, not necessarily - it all depends on the number of units of each type of playback device that have been sold.
Yes, HD DVD backers may, on average, have purchased 3.8 discs each. But if there are only a hundred of them, that's just 380 discs. If Sony has shipped more than a million PlayStation 3s in Europe, that's 600,000 discs - rather more than 380.
Now which is the most popular format, in terms of disc sales?
Of course, rather more than 100 HD DVD playback devices have been sold in Europe to date, but the it's very telling that the European HD DVD PG won't say how many.
"Unfortunately, we aren’t releasing total sales numbers because we feel that it is early days for both formats compared to DVD," a European HD DVD PG spokeswoman told us.
\t\t
In short, the organisation doesn't want comparisons being drawn with 'old technology' DVD sales, let alone its rival HD format.
Its unwillingness to release hard data leads us to believe that right now the vast majority of European consumers are not interested in HD DVD. They're probably not interested in Blu-ray either, but so big has been the take up of the PS3, in comparison to HD DVD, that it's building momentum. The upcoming cheap, 40GB PS3 will only drive this trend harder.
Register Hardware is bi-partisan - we can see advantages and failings in both formats. But if the European HD DVD Promotional Group really is confident its format will be successful, it should have the courage to come clean on the numbers. That it doesn't, speaks volumes.
Now, at the risk of sounding like Marz:
Quote:
Onkyo DV-HD805, the phantom HD DVD
By: Gian Luca Di Felice
AVMagazine.it, Nov. 26, 2007
The first Onkyo HD DVD player has been available in Italy for a few days now, but it can already be considered as a collector's item, because there are very few units in existence, and Onkyo has stopped its production.
We were waiting for a unit of the first Onkyo HD DVD player, the DV-HD805, for review on the pages of AV Magazine. After a conversation with Tecnofuturo, the Brescia-based Italian distributor of the Japanese manufacturer, we decided in mutual agreement that it was not worth the trouble. The reasons are quickly explained: the DV-HD805 is no other than a rebranded Toshiba HD-XE1 HD DVD player, which is already compatible with streaming of all lossless multichannel HD codecs via HDMI 1.3, and there are only few units of it available.
In view of the new marketing policy being applied by Toshiba, consisting of sinking the price of its own players, Onkyo has difficulty in positioning its own player (the Europe list price is 899 euros) and has therefore decided to stop production. The scarce units produced have been redistributed in varios markets. It has been known that barely 11 units arrived in Italy, and no others will come. Germany has been more fortunate, with 20 units, and Spain will receive none.
As to why it was decided not to review such a product, apart from its being a clone, it won't be effectively be available on the market (the 11 Italian units are already sold). We thank Tecnofuturo for such a quick communication and we apologize to the enthusiasts. Onkyo is already working actively on a new player and according to tidbits it could be this time a Blu-ray player or a hybrid player. We'll have other news and more confirmation during the upcoming CES at Las Vegas.
Sh*t I was hoping Onkyo would be smarter, and go the other way. They'll probably end up scraping HD-DVD anyway. Now I have to wait to see what Kenwood does. Most of my stereo components are Onkyo, but I do mix others. I have a sony DVD carousel, and I guess I'll have to wait for Sony to release one for BR. I was hoping for Onkyo, or Kenwood though. I guess Kenwood is still a possibility.
The thing is one has a chance to turn a profit on a competing $399 device but a LOT less so on an $98 device, or would you and bite disagree with that?
Whether they can make a profit at $399 or not, very few standalone Blu-Ray players are being sold because Sony offers far more bang for the buck with the PS3. I don't think you'll see HD DVD players at $98 again anytime soon anyhow; that seemed to be more or less a one-time deal. Regardless, even if Toshiba wasn't the only manufacturer of HD DVD players, I don't believe it would help their format in terms of sales.
The general public doesn't seem to care that much about picture quality, at least not enough to pay extra for it. If it comes as a feature of something they were going to buy anyhow, great. But otherwise, they can live just fine without it. I imagine the vast majority of HDTV owners didn't buy them for high definition content, but rather because a.) they wanted a big televisions and b.) you can't walk out of Best Buy anymore with a big television that doesn't also happen to be HD. The same is probably true with HD movies; most people aren't going to go out of their way for an HDM set up which requires a special player and special discs, but if it just so happens to be a feature of something they were going to buy anyhow (like a PS3), then they might as well buy the discs.
Blu-Ray doesn't have a 2:1 lead because people just love love love them some super-awesome blu-ray technology; it's leading because it's an "oh by the way" feature of something that was going to sell millions of units regardless. Consumers aren't choosing either format. If Microsoft had made an HD DVD drive standard on the xBox 360, then HD DVD would be in the lead. It's really not a lead to be proud of, in my opinion.
Whether they can make a profit at $399 or not, very few standalone Blu-Ray players are being sold because Sony offers far more bang for the buck with the PS3. I don't think you'll see HD DVD players at $98 again anytime soon anyhow; that seemed to be more or less a one-time deal. Regardless, even if Toshiba wasn't the only manufacturer of HD DVD players, I don't believe it would help their format in terms of sales.
I went for a standalone BD player because the PS3 didn't do 7.1 analogue plus the player had 5-discs in the box. Instant gratification one might say. Since then I hit SWMBO in a weak moment and have upgraded to a HDMI receiver.
IMO Sony is willing to loose money on the PS3 in order to keep it viable until until killer games are out and it can stand on its own as a game player. On the other hand it's hard to see how Toshiba is making money with low price players. But who knows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer
The general public doesn't seem to care that much about picture quality, at least not enough to pay extra for it. If it comes as a feature of something they were going to buy anyhow, great. But otherwise, they can live just fine without it. I imagine the vast majority of HDTV owners didn't buy them for high definition content, but rather because a.) they wanted a big televisions and b.) you can't walk out of Best Buy anymore with a big television that doesn't also happen to be HD. The same is probably true with HD movies; most people aren't going to go out of their way for an HDM set up which requires a special player and special discs, but if it just so happens to be a feature of something they were going to buy anyhow (like a PS3), then they might as well buy the discs.
The good-enough factor enters in here when it comes to SD-DVD. Also figures I saw a month or so ago showed 18.1% households have HDTV while only 4% had a HDM player. I don't know if the PS3 and xBox were included in the latter figure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer
Blu-Ray doesn't have a 2:1 lead because people just love love love them some super-awesome blu-ray technology; it's leading because it's an "oh by the way" feature of something that was going to sell millions of units regardless. Consumers aren't choosing either format. If Microsoft had made an HD DVD drive standard on the xBox 360, then HD DVD would be in the lead. It's really not a lead to be proud of, in my opinion.
Maybe on the xBox but again, who knows.
I've come to the conclusion and am comfortable with the the idea that HDM is going to be a niche product like laserdiscs. So I'll buy the BD titles that appeal to me and enjoy them. I think it's silly to get all worked up over which format is the best or who's winning. As has been pointed out numerous times it's SD-DVD. Still it would have been interesting if there had been only one HDM format.
I've come to the conclusion and am comfortable with the the idea that HDM is going to be a niche product like laserdiscs. So I'll buy the BD titles that appeal to me and enjoy them. I think it's silly to get all worked up over which format is the best or who's winning. As has been pointed out numerous times it's SD-DVD. Still it would have been interesting if there had been only one HDM format.
I agree. So long as I can enjoy gorgeous HD films, I don't much care what the rest of the world watches I don't have a death wish for a particular format either, and it's been my intention all along to go neutral at some point; I just started with HD DVD because 1.) it was half the price and 2.) it had more of the movies I wanted at the time. It's possible that HDM won't go mainstream until you can no longer buy a DVD player that doesn't also happen to play HDM media, just like HDTVs didn't really take off until it was about all you could buy if you wanted a big television.
Sh*t I was hoping Onkyo would be smarter, and go the other way. They'll probably end up scraping HD-DVD anyway. Now I have to wait to see what Kenwood does. Most of my stereo components are Onkyo, but I do mix others. I have a sony DVD carousel, and I guess I'll have to wait for Sony to release one for BR. I was hoping for Onkyo, or Kenwood though. I guess Kenwood is still a possibility.
Didn't you notice the last paragraph where the article says, "Onkyo is already working actively on a new player and according to tidbits it could be this time a Blu-ray player or a hybrid player"?
I've come to the conclusion and am comfortable with the the idea that HDM is going to be a niche product like laserdiscs. So I'll buy the BD titles that appeal to me and enjoy them. I think it's silly to get all worked up over which format is the best or who's winning. As has been pointed out numerous times it's SD-DVD. Still it would have been interesting if there had been only one HDM format.
I'm also comfortable with the idea of HDM being a niche product for couple more years. I doubt it would take the laser discs route, though. I would speculate that the industry would use a phase out strategy on the SD-DVD's as to how HDTV's are slowly invading new homes because consumers have no choice but pick from HDTV's (720 - 1080p) for anything bigger than 25" screen. The process may take longer than how DVD's won over the VHS, but it is going to happen sooner or later.
Of course, having two HDM optical formats may slow things down a little, but at least the HDM choices are becoming more affordable at faster pace than anyone had imagined. All in all, once both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray movies get transfered to the HDD, it is just HDM, free from being associated with an optical disc format.
Looks like another week of very poor and few releases for HD DVD versus a large number of very good releases for Blu-Ray. I expect to see marzetta7 back here in a week and a half with 7 to 3 sales figures, along with his obligatory speech about how consumers are choosing blu-ray hand over fist, how HD DVD hasn't "won" a week all year, how Warner's going to drop neutrality any day now and go with the technically superior format, and how not even lower-priced players can save HD DVD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac
I'm also comfortable with the idea of HDM being a niche product for couple more years. I doubt it would take the laser discs route, though. I would speculate that the industry would use a phase out strategy on the SD-DVD's as to how HDTV's are slowly invading new homes because consumers have no choice but pick from HDTV's (720 - 1080p) for anything bigger than 25" screen. The process may take longer than how DVD's won over the VHS, but it is going to happen sooner or later.
Of course, having two HDM optical formats may slow things down a little, but at least the HDM choices are becoming more affordable at faster pace than anyone had imagined. All in all, once both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray movies get transfered to the HDD, it is just HDM, free from being associated with an optical disc format.
The good news is DVDs and HDM media are all physically the same size, so in 3-5 years it could very well be possible that when you walk into a store to buy a DVD player to replace your old model that just bit the dust, the DVD player you walk out with also happens to play HDM media. Just like buying a big screen television now automatically gets you an HDTV, buying a DVD player in a few years may automatically get you an HDM player. I imagine this may be the only way that HDM will really become mainstream. In a world where people connect their upconverting DVD players and HD satellite receivers to their HDTVS with RCA cables, there's really not a huge for demand or need superior formats.
...As expected, HD DVD sold very well and continues to show very good numbers during the holiday buying season. In looking back at the amount of pain this thing has caused Sony, I couldn't help but compare it to the U.S. and Iraq.
Think about it -- if Donald Rumsfeld, then the Secretary of Defense, had gone to George Bush and said, "Hey, we need to invade Iraq and the result will be I'll lose my job, most of the generals and advisers you currently have will resign or lose their jobs, you'll kill more U.S. soldiers than any president in near-term U.S. history, you'll lose Congress to the Democrats, you'll almost assure Hillary Clinton will be your successor, you'll restart the Cold War, you'll devalue the U.S. dollar to the lowest level in recent history, you'll go down in history as probably the dumbest U.S. president ever, and you'll be locked into an incredibly expensive battle you won't either be able to leave or win," you'd have to believe that George would have said no.
And not just no, but "hell no, no way, noppers, negatory, not doing it, get the hell out of my office and don't come back."
Now look at Blu-ray. Since bringing it out, Sony has trashed its PlayStation division, had to downsize a number of top executives including the guy that was credited with creating the PlayStation's success in the first place. The company's financial performance has largely dropped into the toilet and it has had to sell off parts of the company to Toshiba, the company behind the other format. Key studios have abandoned it, some of which have gaming properties that probably now won't go to PlayStation. Sony has nearly assured that whatever country gets the next media format, it won't be Japan and probably will be China, it will be constantly reminded of the Betamax mistake, Nintendo is No. 1 in the gaming segment, and it'll be locked into a battle it can neither win nor exit from. You'd have to believe that the guy making the proposal would be chased by ninjas out of the office and his ending wouldn't have been a good one.
Oh, and one other similarity: If you point out that the Iraq war was brain-dead stupid, you are seen as a terrorist sympathizer; if you point out that Blu-ray was brain-dead stupid, you are portrayed as being on Toshiba or Microsoft's payroll. I still don't get the Microsoft thing, since neither it nor Intel (Nasdaq: INTC) seems to care that much one way or the other now, and both are focused more on downloads. It gives me a lot of empathy for the kid in the Emperor-has-no-clothes Fairy Tale.
This HD DVD guy has now officially taken his comments too far. This guy is very deserving of the flame he'll be receiving in a few seconds.
Ridiculous. I don't know what else to say. Ridiculous.
IMO, it doesn't matter if you are for or against the War in Iraq we care currently engulfed in, but I don't think anyone ought to compare or make analogies of the format war to a real war where men and women in the armed services are sacrificing their lives. IMO, it is just plain wrong and more than a bit messed up. What kinda douche does this?
Bitemymac, if you are attempting to defend what Mr. Enderle is stating here, I can see why facts and logic are lost on you, that's all I have to say. If this isn't your intention, at the very least provide some quantifiable proof as to why you think Bill Hunt says anything in the realm of how poor in taste this article is.
IMO, it doesn't matter if you are for or against the War in Iraq we care currently engulfed in, but I don't think anyone ought to compare or make analogies of the format war to a real war where men and women in the armed services are sacrificing their lives. IMO, it is just plain wrong and more than a bit messed up. What kinda douche does this?
Bitemymac, if you are attempting to defend what Mr. Enderle is stating here, I can see why facts and logic are lost on you, that's all I have to say. If this isn't your intention, at the very least provide some quantifiable proof as to why you think Bill Hunt says anything in the realm of how poor in taste this article is.
That is a steaming load - so you can't talk about how badly things are going over there because people are dying? The people dying are a big part of the "things going badly over there".
And I think that the comparison is entirely appropriate - both situations involved people making big bets and not having them come out as expected, and the initiators probably would have done things differently had they known what was in store for them.
I'm also comfortable with the idea of HDM being a niche product for couple more years. I doubt it would take the laser discs route, though. I would speculate that the industry would use a phase out strategy on the SD-DVD's as to how HDTV's are slowly invading new homes because consumers have no choice but pick from HDTV's (720 - 1080p) for anything bigger than 25" screen. The process may take longer than how DVD's won over the VHS, but it is going to happen sooner or later.
...
.
While at some point studios may have a SD-DVD phase out strategy, if there's overwhelming consumer rejection of HDM they may not be able to implement it. Given the lackluster support of HD studios for December and BD ones after 4 December, one has to wonder how totally committed studios are to HDM. The Christmas buying season is when many people make impulse purchases and the lack of quality December titles beyond Harry Potter and Blade Runner makes one wonder as to what's going on with the studios. It doesn't seem like they're putting much resources behind HDM.
That is a steaming load - so you can't talk about how badly things are going over there because people are dying? The people dying are a big part of the "things going badly over there".
And I think that the comparison is entirely appropriate - both situations involved people making big bets and not having them come out as expected, and the initiators probably would have done things differently had they known what was in store for them.
I would say that as a supposed respectable journalist on technology, no, you don't make light of the sacrifice men and women in the military give and compare it to a silly format war. The analogy is in very, very poor taste IMO. I certainly did NOT say you CAN'T talk about how badly things are going IYO (as things appear to be turning around in Iraq), but I'm simply stating that I think he crossed a line comparing the two in his poor taste, and honestly, he best be prepared to face the consequences of such poor taste. Imus anyone?
IMO, it doesn't matter if you are for or against the War in Iraq we care currently engulfed in, but I don't think anyone ought to compare or make analogies of the format war to a real war where men and women in the armed services are sacrificing their lives. IMO, it is just plain wrong and more than a bit messed up. What kinda douche does this?
Bitemymac, if you are attempting to defend what Mr. Enderle is stating here, I can see why facts and logic are lost on you, that's all I have to say. If this isn't your intention, at the very least provide some quantifiable proof as to why you think Bill Hunt says anything in the realm of how poor in taste this article is.
You're funny. Your opinions definately reflect why you're so Gong-Ho towards blu-ray, perhaps the reason is because you follow Bill Hunt.
I was actually discrediting both, but I think Bill Hunt is even worse than Mr. Enderle. Mr. Enderle is presenting his personal opinions based on what had happened, but Bill Hunt mostly puts a spin on how things will happen in the future in favor of Blu-Ray. Bill Hunt is the leader of Blu-Ray fanboys, and your leader.
Comments
Euro HD DVD camp clams up on format sales figures
By Tony Smith, The Register.co.uk
14th November 2007 11:22 GMT
Editors' Blog
The European HD DVD Promotional Group has refused to back up claims that the next-generation optical disc format it's backing is the movie buff's favourite by revealing how many HD DVD players have been bought over here.
Register Hardware asked it this question because earlier this week the organisation announced that numbers garnered independently by local market watcher GfK showed that 3.8 HD DVD discs have been sold for every player purchased in the UK, France, Germany, Spain, Italy and the Benelux countries.
By contrast, only 0.6 Blu-ray Discs have been sold for every BD-capable player and console bought in those regions.
So HD DVD is the most popular format then? Well, not necessarily - it all depends on the number of units of each type of playback device that have been sold.
Yes, HD DVD backers may, on average, have purchased 3.8 discs each. But if there are only a hundred of them, that's just 380 discs. If Sony has shipped more than a million PlayStation 3s in Europe, that's 600,000 discs - rather more than 380.
Now which is the most popular format, in terms of disc sales?
Of course, rather more than 100 HD DVD playback devices have been sold in Europe to date, but the it's very telling that the European HD DVD PG won't say how many.
"Unfortunately, we aren’t releasing total sales numbers because we feel that it is early days for both formats compared to DVD," a European HD DVD PG spokeswoman told us.
\t\t
In short, the organisation doesn't want comparisons being drawn with 'old technology' DVD sales, let alone its rival HD format.
Its unwillingness to release hard data leads us to believe that right now the vast majority of European consumers are not interested in HD DVD. They're probably not interested in Blu-ray either, but so big has been the take up of the PS3, in comparison to HD DVD, that it's building momentum. The upcoming cheap, 40GB PS3 will only drive this trend harder.
Register Hardware is bi-partisan - we can see advantages and failings in both formats. But if the European HD DVD Promotional Group really is confident its format will be successful, it should have the courage to come clean on the numbers. That it doesn't, speaks volumes.
Now, at the risk of sounding like Marz:
Onkyo DV-HD805, the phantom HD DVD
By: Gian Luca Di Felice
AVMagazine.it, Nov. 26, 2007
The first Onkyo HD DVD player has been available in Italy for a few days now, but it can already be considered as a collector's item, because there are very few units in existence, and Onkyo has stopped its production.
We were waiting for a unit of the first Onkyo HD DVD player, the DV-HD805, for review on the pages of AV Magazine. After a conversation with Tecnofuturo, the Brescia-based Italian distributor of the Japanese manufacturer, we decided in mutual agreement that it was not worth the trouble. The reasons are quickly explained: the DV-HD805 is no other than a rebranded Toshiba HD-XE1 HD DVD player, which is already compatible with streaming of all lossless multichannel HD codecs via HDMI 1.3, and there are only few units of it available.
In view of the new marketing policy being applied by Toshiba, consisting of sinking the price of its own players, Onkyo has difficulty in positioning its own player (the Europe list price is 899 euros) and has therefore decided to stop production. The scarce units produced have been redistributed in varios markets. It has been known that barely 11 units arrived in Italy, and no others will come. Germany has been more fortunate, with 20 units, and Spain will receive none.
As to why it was decided not to review such a product, apart from its being a clone, it won't be effectively be available on the market (the 11 Italian units are already sold). We thank Tecnofuturo for such a quick communication and we apologize to the enthusiasts. Onkyo is already working actively on a new player and according to tidbits it could be this time a Blu-ray player or a hybrid player. We'll have other news and more confirmation during the upcoming CES at Las Vegas.
The thing is one has a chance to turn a profit on a competing $399 device but a LOT less so on an $98 device, or would you and bite disagree with that?
Whether they can make a profit at $399 or not, very few standalone Blu-Ray players are being sold because Sony offers far more bang for the buck with the PS3. I don't think you'll see HD DVD players at $98 again anytime soon anyhow; that seemed to be more or less a one-time deal. Regardless, even if Toshiba wasn't the only manufacturer of HD DVD players, I don't believe it would help their format in terms of sales.
The general public doesn't seem to care that much about picture quality, at least not enough to pay extra for it. If it comes as a feature of something they were going to buy anyhow, great. But otherwise, they can live just fine without it. I imagine the vast majority of HDTV owners didn't buy them for high definition content, but rather because a.) they wanted a big televisions and b.) you can't walk out of Best Buy anymore with a big television that doesn't also happen to be HD. The same is probably true with HD movies; most people aren't going to go out of their way for an HDM set up which requires a special player and special discs, but if it just so happens to be a feature of something they were going to buy anyhow (like a PS3), then they might as well buy the discs.
Blu-Ray doesn't have a 2:1 lead because people just love love love them some super-awesome blu-ray technology; it's leading because it's an "oh by the way" feature of something that was going to sell millions of units regardless. Consumers aren't choosing either format. If Microsoft had made an HD DVD drive standard on the xBox 360, then HD DVD would be in the lead. It's really not a lead to be proud of, in my opinion.
Whether they can make a profit at $399 or not, very few standalone Blu-Ray players are being sold because Sony offers far more bang for the buck with the PS3. I don't think you'll see HD DVD players at $98 again anytime soon anyhow; that seemed to be more or less a one-time deal. Regardless, even if Toshiba wasn't the only manufacturer of HD DVD players, I don't believe it would help their format in terms of sales.
I went for a standalone BD player because the PS3 didn't do 7.1 analogue plus the player had 5-discs in the box. Instant gratification one might say. Since then I hit SWMBO in a weak moment and have upgraded to a HDMI receiver.
IMO Sony is willing to loose money on the PS3 in order to keep it viable until until killer games are out and it can stand on its own as a game player. On the other hand it's hard to see how Toshiba is making money with low price players. But who knows.
The general public doesn't seem to care that much about picture quality, at least not enough to pay extra for it. If it comes as a feature of something they were going to buy anyhow, great. But otherwise, they can live just fine without it. I imagine the vast majority of HDTV owners didn't buy them for high definition content, but rather because a.) they wanted a big televisions and b.) you can't walk out of Best Buy anymore with a big television that doesn't also happen to be HD. The same is probably true with HD movies; most people aren't going to go out of their way for an HDM set up which requires a special player and special discs, but if it just so happens to be a feature of something they were going to buy anyhow (like a PS3), then they might as well buy the discs.
The good-enough factor enters in here when it comes to SD-DVD. Also figures I saw a month or so ago showed 18.1% households have HDTV while only 4% had a HDM player. I don't know if the PS3 and xBox were included in the latter figure.
Blu-Ray doesn't have a 2:1 lead because people just love love love them some super-awesome blu-ray technology; it's leading because it's an "oh by the way" feature of something that was going to sell millions of units regardless. Consumers aren't choosing either format. If Microsoft had made an HD DVD drive standard on the xBox 360, then HD DVD would be in the lead. It's really not a lead to be proud of, in my opinion.
Maybe on the xBox but again, who knows.
I've come to the conclusion and am comfortable with the the idea that HDM is going to be a niche product like laserdiscs. So I'll buy the BD titles that appeal to me and enjoy them. I think it's silly to get all worked up over which format is the best or who's winning. As has been pointed out numerous times it's SD-DVD. Still it would have been interesting if there had been only one HDM format.
I've come to the conclusion and am comfortable with the the idea that HDM is going to be a niche product like laserdiscs. So I'll buy the BD titles that appeal to me and enjoy them. I think it's silly to get all worked up over which format is the best or who's winning. As has been pointed out numerous times it's SD-DVD. Still it would have been interesting if there had been only one HDM format.
I agree. So long as I can enjoy gorgeous HD films, I don't much care what the rest of the world watches
Sh*t I was hoping Onkyo would be smarter, and go the other way. They'll probably end up scraping HD-DVD anyway. Now I have to wait to see what Kenwood does. Most of my stereo components are Onkyo, but I do mix others. I have a sony DVD carousel, and I guess I'll have to wait for Sony to release one for BR. I was hoping for Onkyo, or Kenwood though. I guess Kenwood is still a possibility.
Didn't you notice the last paragraph where the article says, "Onkyo is already working actively on a new player and according to tidbits it could be this time a Blu-ray player or a hybrid player"?
I've come to the conclusion and am comfortable with the the idea that HDM is going to be a niche product like laserdiscs. So I'll buy the BD titles that appeal to me and enjoy them. I think it's silly to get all worked up over which format is the best or who's winning. As has been pointed out numerous times it's SD-DVD. Still it would have been interesting if there had been only one HDM format.
I'm also comfortable with the idea of HDM being a niche product for couple more years. I doubt it would take the laser discs route, though. I would speculate that the industry would use a phase out strategy on the SD-DVD's as to how HDTV's are slowly invading new homes because consumers have no choice but pick from HDTV's (720 - 1080p) for anything bigger than 25" screen. The process may take longer than how DVD's won over the VHS, but it is going to happen sooner or later.
Of course, having two HDM optical formats may slow things down a little, but at least the HDM choices are becoming more affordable at faster pace than anyone had imagined. All in all, once both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray movies get transfered to the HDD, it is just HDM, free from being associated with an optical disc format.
I'm also comfortable with the idea of HDM being a niche product for couple more years. I doubt it would take the laser discs route, though. I would speculate that the industry would use a phase out strategy on the SD-DVD's as to how HDTV's are slowly invading new homes because consumers have no choice but pick from HDTV's (720 - 1080p) for anything bigger than 25" screen. The process may take longer than how DVD's won over the VHS, but it is going to happen sooner or later.
Of course, having two HDM optical formats may slow things down a little, but at least the HDM choices are becoming more affordable at faster pace than anyone had imagined. All in all, once both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray movies get transfered to the HDD, it is just HDM, free from being associated with an optical disc format.
The good news is DVDs and HDM media are all physically the same size, so in 3-5 years it could very well be possible that when you walk into a store to buy a DVD player to replace your old model that just bit the dust, the DVD player you walk out with also happens to play HDM media. Just like buying a big screen television now automatically gets you an HDTV, buying a DVD player in a few years may automatically get you an HDM player. I imagine this may be the only way that HDM will really become mainstream. In a world where people connect their upconverting DVD players and HD satellite receivers to their HDTVS with RCA cables, there's really not a huge for demand or need superior formats.
Cheers
:P
Haha nice. I guess that saves Marz the trouble!
Cheers
:P
Indeed! Thanks Cory.
Indeed! Thanks Cory.
You have to, it's your job after all
http://www.technewsworld.com/story/Z...eek-60557.html
...As expected, HD DVD sold very well and continues to show very good numbers during the holiday buying season. In looking back at the amount of pain this thing has caused Sony, I couldn't help but compare it to the U.S. and Iraq.
Think about it -- if Donald Rumsfeld, then the Secretary of Defense, had gone to George Bush and said, "Hey, we need to invade Iraq and the result will be I'll lose my job, most of the generals and advisers you currently have will resign or lose their jobs, you'll kill more U.S. soldiers than any president in near-term U.S. history, you'll lose Congress to the Democrats, you'll almost assure Hillary Clinton will be your successor, you'll restart the Cold War, you'll devalue the U.S. dollar to the lowest level in recent history, you'll go down in history as probably the dumbest U.S. president ever, and you'll be locked into an incredibly expensive battle you won't either be able to leave or win," you'd have to believe that George would have said no.
And not just no, but "hell no, no way, noppers, negatory, not doing it, get the hell out of my office and don't come back."
Now look at Blu-ray. Since bringing it out, Sony has trashed its PlayStation division, had to downsize a number of top executives including the guy that was credited with creating the PlayStation's success in the first place. The company's financial performance has largely dropped into the toilet and it has had to sell off parts of the company to Toshiba, the company behind the other format. Key studios have abandoned it, some of which have gaming properties that probably now won't go to PlayStation. Sony has nearly assured that whatever country gets the next media format, it won't be Japan and probably will be China, it will be constantly reminded of the Betamax mistake, Nintendo is No. 1 in the gaming segment, and it'll be locked into a battle it can neither win nor exit from. You'd have to believe that the guy making the proposal would be chased by ninjas out of the office and his ending wouldn't have been a good one.
Oh, and one other similarity: If you point out that the Iraq war was brain-dead stupid, you are seen as a terrorist sympathizer; if you point out that Blu-ray was brain-dead stupid, you are portrayed as being on Toshiba or Microsoft's payroll. I still don't get the Microsoft thing, since neither it nor Intel (Nasdaq: INTC) seems to care that much one way or the other now, and both are focused more on downloads. It gives me a lot of empathy for the kid in the Emperor-has-no-clothes Fairy Tale.
This HD DVD guy has now officially taken his comments too far. This guy is very deserving of the flame he'll be receiving in a few seconds.
Ridiculous. I don't know what else to say. Ridiculous.
Enderle - "Blu-ray Is Sony's Iraq" - WTH!?
http://www.technewsworld.com/story/Z...eek-60557.html
This HD DVD guy has now officially taken his comments too far. This guy is very deserving of the flame he'll be receiving in a few seconds.
Ridiculous. I don't know what else to say. Ridiculous.
I actually agree with the Iraq part, but I think that Sony will win after a bit of short term pain, so it is a bit different from Iraq.
Enderle - "Blu-ray Is Sony's Iraq" - WTH!?
http://www.technewsworld.com/story/Z...eek-60557.html
This HD DVD guy has now officially taken his comments too far. This guy is very deserving of the flame he'll be receiving in a few seconds.
Ridiculous. I don't know what else to say. Ridiculous.
Haha...
This isn't as bad as what Bill Hunt writes.
Bitemymac, if you are attempting to defend what Mr. Enderle is stating here, I can see why facts and logic are lost on you, that's all I have to say. If this isn't your intention, at the very least provide some quantifiable proof as to why you think Bill Hunt says anything in the realm of how poor in taste this article is.
IMO, it doesn't matter if you are for or against the War in Iraq we care currently engulfed in, but I don't think anyone ought to compare or make analogies of the format war to a real war where men and women in the armed services are sacrificing their lives. IMO, it is just plain wrong and more than a bit messed up. What kinda douche does this?
Bitemymac, if you are attempting to defend what Mr. Enderle is stating here, I can see why facts and logic are lost on you, that's all I have to say. If this isn't your intention, at the very least provide some quantifiable proof as to why you think Bill Hunt says anything in the realm of how poor in taste this article is.
That is a steaming load - so you can't talk about how badly things are going over there because people are dying? The people dying are a big part of the "things going badly over there".
And I think that the comparison is entirely appropriate - both situations involved people making big bets and not having them come out as expected, and the initiators probably would have done things differently had they known what was in store for them.
I'm also comfortable with the idea of HDM being a niche product for couple more years. I doubt it would take the laser discs route, though. I would speculate that the industry would use a phase out strategy on the SD-DVD's as to how HDTV's are slowly invading new homes because consumers have no choice but pick from HDTV's (720 - 1080p) for anything bigger than 25" screen. The process may take longer than how DVD's won over the VHS, but it is going to happen sooner or later.
...
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While at some point studios may have a SD-DVD phase out strategy, if there's overwhelming consumer rejection of HDM they may not be able to implement it. Given the lackluster support of HD studios for December and BD ones after 4 December, one has to wonder how totally committed studios are to HDM. The Christmas buying season is when many people make impulse purchases and the lack of quality December titles beyond Harry Potter and Blade Runner makes one wonder as to what's going on with the studios. It doesn't seem like they're putting much resources behind HDM.
That is a steaming load - so you can't talk about how badly things are going over there because people are dying? The people dying are a big part of the "things going badly over there".
And I think that the comparison is entirely appropriate - both situations involved people making big bets and not having them come out as expected, and the initiators probably would have done things differently had they known what was in store for them.
I would say that as a supposed respectable journalist on technology, no, you don't make light of the sacrifice men and women in the military give and compare it to a silly format war. The analogy is in very, very poor taste IMO. I certainly did NOT say you CAN'T talk about how badly things are going IYO (as things appear to be turning around in Iraq), but I'm simply stating that I think he crossed a line comparing the two in his poor taste, and honestly, he best be prepared to face the consequences of such poor taste. Imus anyone?
IMO, it doesn't matter if you are for or against the War in Iraq we care currently engulfed in, but I don't think anyone ought to compare or make analogies of the format war to a real war where men and women in the armed services are sacrificing their lives. IMO, it is just plain wrong and more than a bit messed up. What kinda douche does this?
Bitemymac, if you are attempting to defend what Mr. Enderle is stating here, I can see why facts and logic are lost on you, that's all I have to say. If this isn't your intention, at the very least provide some quantifiable proof as to why you think Bill Hunt says anything in the realm of how poor in taste this article is.
You're funny. Your opinions definately reflect why you're so Gong-Ho towards blu-ray, perhaps the reason is because you follow Bill Hunt.
I was actually discrediting both, but I think Bill Hunt is even worse than Mr. Enderle. Mr. Enderle is presenting his personal opinions based on what had happened, but Bill Hunt mostly puts a spin on how things will happen in the future in favor of Blu-Ray. Bill Hunt is the leader of Blu-Ray fanboys, and your leader.
Edited: photo confirmation
BTW, are we talking about same Bill Hunt?