ok, i was in the local GAME yesterday and the guy "said" they had 100 pre orders "at the moment" and were expecting to fill all of those orders with stock.
ive been umming and ahhing about wheather to get one on release day, i was a Day One PS2 purchaser WAAAY back and i PLAN on getting one at some point soon, its just a matter of getting on on DayOne agian or not? is there any point? will i be dissapointed? is it worth it?
Make a list of titles you like to play and compare with the titles available and expected. I don't have one but buddies do. It's nice but $600 (or whatever in Euros) nice? Not quite for me since the only exclusive title I want is on the 360...
Blu-ray is also nice but my HT setup is out of comission as I rework the basement...
Eh, if you have plenty of time to kill and you have a HDTV...I'd say it was worth it if you couldn't concentrate on anything else. Movies and games should keep you occupied for a while. A wii or a dance pad might be useful depending on what you are recovering from...otherwise only your fingers get a work out.
Of course Blu-ray is going to win this in the end. I know this to be true, because I purchased an HD DVD player. I warned you all at the time that the format was doomed as a result. I bought into Laserdisc and, before that, SelectaVision. I defy anyone here to match that track record.
Sony has announced "Closer" on Blu-ray for May 22. Hmm, they're getting, um, closer to releasing some movies I actually care about. I almost picked up a copy of "Kingdom of Heaven" this weekend, but discovered that, not only is the absolutely brilliant making-of documentary from the SD release NOT in high definition - it isn't on the BD release at ALL. That cost you a sale, BD boys.
It'll also hasten the Xbox 360 price drop that I need.
They are probably not going to drop the price, since they are working on improved hardware (quieter, 120gb drive, hdmi output with 1080p - basically bringing the xbox up to PS3 levels, but with a larger hard drive).
Of course Blu-ray is going to win this in the end. I know this to be true, because I purchased an HD DVD player. I warned you all at the time that the format was doomed as a result. I bought into Laserdisc and, before that, SelectaVision. I defy anyone here to match that track record.
Sony has announced "Closer" on Blu-ray for May 22. Hmm, they're getting, um, closer to releasing some movies I actually care about. I almost picked up a copy of "Kingdom of Heaven" this weekend, but discovered that, not only is the absolutely brilliant making-of documentary from the SD release NOT in high definition - it isn't on the BD release at ALL. That cost you a sale, BD boys.
That cracked me up BrunoBruin. I too have a massive LaserDisc collection sitting there collecting dust. And to top it off my player is dead and there's no hope of finding a suitable replacement. And besides I've replaced all of my favorite titles with DVDs.
And what's with the ABSOLUTE CRAP special features on BluRay titles?
So surveys (and articles in game mags and sites) say the 60Gb is more popular than the 20GB which is available from BB online but becuase you've never seen ANY 20GB ANYWHERE in SoCal it must be some bait and switch ploy on the part of Sony?
Never mind that retailers will stock the version that sells more often than the version that doesn't and Sony will make more of the units that were in higher demand than the one in lower demand.
Yes, conspiracy theories and hating large companies is fun isn't it? Would you like to bash microsoft a little next? How about the Wii? I'm sure Nintendo is artificially constraining the availability of the Wii to make it seem more in demand and selling units on EBay through employee's posing as private sellers.
Get over it. The 20GB turned out not to sell and consumers choose the 60GB as the better deal. Why make a SKU that costs more, offers less and few folks like? Eliminating the 20GB version will only hasten the price drop the PS3 needs.
Vinea
Hm... So Sony $ lost of $240/60GB and $300/20GB PS3 models has nothing to do it, but based on consumer demands? I thought the entry cost of $499 was already too much for rest of the world for a gaming console, and $599 becoming the hottest pick still doesn't add up. It may happen in the AV entusiast market, but not with rest of PS2 owners at $599 price point.
It just looks like a simple balance sheet scheme to lessen the amount value with the red ink in the book. Every 20GB model sold will add 25% more lost to the book which also means every 20GB not sold will lessen the lost by 25% in the book.
Hm... So Sony $ lost of $240/60GB and $300/20GB PS3 models has nothing to do it, but based on consumer demands? I thought the entry cost of $499 was already too much for rest of the world for a gaming console, and $599 becoming the hottest pick still doesn't add up. It may happen in the AV entusiast market, but not with rest of PS2 owners at $599 price point.
It just looks like a simple balance sheet scheme to lessen the amount value with the red ink in the book. Every 20GB model sold will add 25% more lost to the book which also means every 20GB not sold will lessen the lost by 25% in the book.
Those huge losses were assumed by incompetent analysts.
When adding up the costs, they added ~$300-400, which was estimated to be the BOM of a standard Blu-ray player at the time. But stand alone players require expensive hardware to decode 1080P video and upscale/downscale as needed—the PS3 already has this with the Cell.
The Blu-ray drive probably added a temporary $20 to the PS3—the only thing that's more expensive is the not-yet mass-produced laser and more accurate lens and positioning gear.
Keep in mind that Sony has never sold Playstation hardware at a loss before. They're not going to go from that to losing the insane amounts of money per unit that you're quoting.
Those huge losses were assumed by incompetent analysts.
When adding up the costs, they added ~$300-400, which was estimated to be the BOM of a standard Blu-ray player at the time. But stand alone players require expensive hardware to decode 1080P video and upscale/downscale as needed?the PS3 already has this with the Cell.
The Blu-ray drive probably added a temporary $20 to the PS3?the only thing that's more expensive is the not-yet mass-produced laser and more accurate lens and positioning gear.
Keep in mind that Sony has never sold Playstation hardware at a loss before. They're not going to go from that to losing the insane amounts of money per unit that you're quoting.
So competent analysts are tell you that Sony's making money off PS3, and it cost $20 for BD drive... and 1080p video scaler cost more than the $20 BD drive?
So competent analysts are tell you that Sony's making money off PS3, and it cost $20 for BD drive... and 1080p video scaler cost more than the $20 BD drive?
iSuppli is spotty. In this case the estimates seemed a little high. It would be surprising if the RSX was costing Sony $125 each or the case $90 (case, cage, power supply).
That its selling for a loss is pretty much a given I would think. Hemmoraging over $300/unit? Eh...$500M losses are possible given Sony's numbers for Q3. The numbers involved are huge. A couple hundred million difference disappears quickly in back of the envelope calculations.
Its not something that will last though. Costs will drop, prices will drop and the game division will be profitable again even after getting beat on by MS and Nintendo for a year or so.
iSuppli is spotty. In this case the estimates seemed a little high. It would be surprising if the RSX was costing Sony $125 each or the case $90 (case, cage, power supply).
That its selling for a loss is pretty much a given I would think. Hemmoraging over $300/unit? Eh...$500M losses are possible given Sony's numbers for Q3. The numbers involved are huge. A couple hundred million difference disappears quickly in back of the envelope calculations.
Its not something that will last though. Costs will drop, prices will drop and the game division will be profitable again even after getting beat on by MS and Nintendo for a year or so.
Vinea
Around the ballpark of $250-$300/unit would also be my guess. I don't think the unit cost will drop as fast, though. At least, we are not likely to see any significant price drop throughout this year. I think the best cure for Sony would be getting the blockbuster PS3 games out there soon to even out the heavy loss.
So competent analysts are tell you that Sony's making money off PS3, and it cost $20 for BD drive... and 1080p video scaler cost more than the $20 BD drive?
Do you genuinely believe that a blue-violet laser costs $350? Hint: Sony makes them themselves—they can get them for about half the whole sale price. I'm guessing $20. This will come down to maybe $2 in a few years.
And it's not just a 1080 video scaler that's in stand-alone players. Look at what Macs are and aren't capable of decoding 1080p H.264 video. A stand-alone requires significant horse power—these typically were Pentium 4's. An analyst for iSuppli, of an HD-DVD player, "The Toshiba HD-A1 is basically a combination of a low-end PC and a high-end DVD player." They also had to pack significant amounts of RAM and other memory: $100 worth. Those are the numbers that they added into the PS3's Blu-ray cost figure.
The $800 number is just out-of-order. Let's take off $300 since the PS3 clearly doesn't have separate processors and RAM for it's Blu-ray drive. This brings us to $500—just over the cost of the low end, but still not profitable considering advertising, packaging, distributing, support, and other costs.
But IBM is already manufacturing 65 nm versions of the Cell. This is a 50% reduction in silicon, so already we can knock the price down from $230 to $170. Additionally, they've switched their PS2 support from hardware to software, a la the XBOX, saving another $30.
So at the European launch, it will be $90 cheaper. This is starting to push it into the realm of profitability—a $500 system that costs $410 to make.
Will prices drop soon? No. But they're not out of the question.
. . . And it's not just a 1080 video scaler that's in stand-alone players. Look at what Macs are and aren't capable of decoding 1080p H.264 video. A stand-alone requires significant horse power?these typically were Pentium 4's. An analyst for iSuppli, of an HD-DVD player, "The Toshiba HD-A1 is basically a combination of a low-end PC and a high-end DVD player."
Are you sure of that? I just read the thread about Apple adding a h.264 chip to all Macs. According to that discussion, coding and decoding is done in this chip, not a CPU. (If I understand it correctly.)
Samsung delays their 2nd generation hardware and rumors pop up again about the possibility of a Universal player.
I don't think you'll see hybrids win the day. You're not going to have one studio producing in one format and another in a different format and a third producing both formats in terms of content. One has to win. The hybrid players will sell to those who want Hi Def but don't want to be left stranded. It's not a long term solution.
Are you sure of that? I just read the thread about Apple adding a h.264 chip to all Macs. According to that discussion, coding and decoding is done in this chip, not a CPU. (If I understand it correctly.)
That rumor was made up by John Dvorak. Need I say more?
Edit: I will, anyway
They make no reference to 1080p, or even 720p. Although if they do happen, I'd assume the latter.
Finally, H.264 encoding on a specialized chip is available, AFAIK, and will come down in price. Also, most GPU's can also handle decoding. However, the analyst's note in question priced the PS3 based on then-current HD-DVD and Blu-ray players, most of which included Pentium 4's and similar chips—not particularly elegant designs.
If there is an H.264 chip in upcoming Macs, it'll be significantly more elegant and cheaper than most Blu-ray/HD-DVD players are right now.
ok, i was in the local GAME yesterday and the guy "said" they had 100 pre orders "at the moment" and were expecting to fill all of those orders with stock.
ive been umming and ahhing about wheather to get one on release day, i was a Day One PS2 purchaser WAAAY back and i PLAN on getting one at some point soon, its just a matter of getting on on DayOne agian or not? is there any point? will i be dissapointed? is it worth it?
has anyone HERE got one and thinks i should go for it?
i cant work at the moment, (long drawn out recovery, long story) so i have time to kill.... PLENTY of time to kill
i dont really hang out on "gaming" forums so this is one of the few places i feel i can ask, and, despite the "widely differing views" on the 2 formats i would value some contribution from any and all poster here.
go on, help me decide on WHEN to go Blu-ray might be an interesting experiment?
thanks in advance
Rod
i suggest you do a quick search around some gaming sites like joystiq, ign, etc
you'll quickly realize there aren't many titles on the PS3 right now. everything worth getting is pretty much on the 360 or on both.
it used to be on the ps2 that sony would get all the great third party games first or just totally exclusive, thts not the case anymore. the 360 looks to have many great exclusives, and all the major titles that made the ps2 a big difference last gen are coming for both systems at the same time now.
that being said, i still think the ps3 will be the better system for RPG/japenese centric type of games, where the 360 will continue to dominate the shooters
Comments
We can only hope. But I still remember Beta-max and DAT.
Maybe you forgot the compact disc?
wondering if anyone could offer a little advice
ok, i was in the local GAME yesterday and the guy "said" they had 100 pre orders "at the moment" and were expecting to fill all of those orders with stock.
ive been umming and ahhing about wheather to get one on release day, i was a Day One PS2 purchaser WAAAY back and i PLAN on getting one at some point soon, its just a matter of getting on on DayOne agian or not? is there any point? will i be dissapointed? is it worth it?
Make a list of titles you like to play and compare with the titles available and expected. I don't have one but buddies do. It's nice but $600 (or whatever in Euros) nice? Not quite for me since the only exclusive title I want is on the 360...
Blu-ray is also nice but my HT setup is out of comission as I rework the basement...
Eh, if you have plenty of time to kill and you have a HDTV...I'd say it was worth it if you couldn't concentrate on anything else. Movies and games should keep you occupied for a while. A wii or a dance pad might be useful depending on what you are recovering from...otherwise only your fingers get a work out.
Vinea
Sony has announced "Closer" on Blu-ray for May 22. Hmm, they're getting, um, closer to releasing some movies I actually care about. I almost picked up a copy of "Kingdom of Heaven" this weekend, but discovered that, not only is the absolutely brilliant making-of documentary from the SD release NOT in high definition - it isn't on the BD release at ALL. That cost you a sale, BD boys.
It'll also hasten the Xbox 360 price drop that I need.
They are probably not going to drop the price, since they are working on improved hardware (quieter, 120gb drive, hdmi output with 1080p - basically bringing the xbox up to PS3 levels, but with a larger hard drive).
http://www.laptoplogic.com/news/detail.php?id=1881
has anyone HERE got one and thinks i should go for it?
i cant work at the moment, (long drawn out recovery, long story) so i have time to kill.... PLENTY of time to kill
Get one!
It's an impressive machine, very solidly built.
And get Motor Storm.
Tons of fun, great graphics and addictive gameplay.
A wii or a dance pad might be useful depending on what you are recovering from...otherwise only your fingers get a work out.
He mentioned chemo earlier, so cancer would be a good bet.
Of course Blu-ray is going to win this in the end. I know this to be true, because I purchased an HD DVD player. I warned you all at the time that the format was doomed as a result. I bought into Laserdisc and, before that, SelectaVision. I defy anyone here to match that track record.
Sony has announced "Closer" on Blu-ray for May 22. Hmm, they're getting, um, closer to releasing some movies I actually care about. I almost picked up a copy of "Kingdom of Heaven" this weekend, but discovered that, not only is the absolutely brilliant making-of documentary from the SD release NOT in high definition - it isn't on the BD release at ALL. That cost you a sale, BD boys.
That cracked me up BrunoBruin. I too have a massive LaserDisc collection sitting there collecting dust. And to top it off my player is dead and there's no hope of finding a suitable replacement. And besides I've replaced all of my favorite titles with DVDs.
And what's with the ABSOLUTE CRAP special features on BluRay titles?
Gee really? Imagine that.
So surveys (and articles in game mags and sites) say the 60Gb is more popular than the 20GB which is available from BB online but becuase you've never seen ANY 20GB ANYWHERE in SoCal it must be some bait and switch ploy on the part of Sony?
Never mind that retailers will stock the version that sells more often than the version that doesn't and Sony will make more of the units that were in higher demand than the one in lower demand.
Yes, conspiracy theories and hating large companies is fun isn't it? Would you like to bash microsoft a little next? How about the Wii? I'm sure Nintendo is artificially constraining the availability of the Wii to make it seem more in demand and selling units on EBay through employee's posing as private sellers.
Get over it. The 20GB turned out not to sell and consumers choose the 60GB as the better deal. Why make a SKU that costs more, offers less and few folks like? Eliminating the 20GB version will only hasten the price drop the PS3 needs.
Vinea
Hm... So Sony $ lost of $240/60GB and $300/20GB PS3 models has nothing to do it, but based on consumer demands? I thought the entry cost of $499 was already too much for rest of the world for a gaming console, and $599 becoming the hottest pick still doesn't add up. It may happen in the AV entusiast market, but not with rest of PS2 owners at $599 price point.
It just looks like a simple balance sheet scheme to lessen the amount value with the red ink in the book. Every 20GB model sold will add 25% more lost to the book which also means every 20GB not sold will lessen the lost by 25% in the book.
Hm... So Sony $ lost of $240/60GB and $300/20GB PS3 models has nothing to do it, but based on consumer demands? I thought the entry cost of $499 was already too much for rest of the world for a gaming console, and $599 becoming the hottest pick still doesn't add up. It may happen in the AV entusiast market, but not with rest of PS2 owners at $599 price point.
It just looks like a simple balance sheet scheme to lessen the amount value with the red ink in the book. Every 20GB model sold will add 25% more lost to the book which also means every 20GB not sold will lessen the lost by 25% in the book.
Those huge losses were assumed by incompetent analysts.
When adding up the costs, they added ~$300-400, which was estimated to be the BOM of a standard Blu-ray player at the time. But stand alone players require expensive hardware to decode 1080P video and upscale/downscale as needed—the PS3 already has this with the Cell.
The Blu-ray drive probably added a temporary $20 to the PS3—the only thing that's more expensive is the not-yet mass-produced laser and more accurate lens and positioning gear.
Keep in mind that Sony has never sold Playstation hardware at a loss before. They're not going to go from that to losing the insane amounts of money per unit that you're quoting.
Those huge losses were assumed by incompetent analysts.
When adding up the costs, they added ~$300-400, which was estimated to be the BOM of a standard Blu-ray player at the time. But stand alone players require expensive hardware to decode 1080P video and upscale/downscale as needed?the PS3 already has this with the Cell.
The Blu-ray drive probably added a temporary $20 to the PS3?the only thing that's more expensive is the not-yet mass-produced laser and more accurate lens and positioning gear.
Keep in mind that Sony has never sold Playstation hardware at a loss before. They're not going to go from that to losing the insane amounts of money per unit that you're quoting.
So competent analysts are tell you that Sony's making money off PS3, and it cost $20 for BD drive... and 1080p video scaler cost more than the $20 BD drive?
So competent analysts are tell you that Sony's making money off PS3, and it cost $20 for BD drive... and 1080p video scaler cost more than the $20 BD drive?
iSuppli is spotty. In this case the estimates seemed a little high. It would be surprising if the RSX was costing Sony $125 each or the case $90 (case, cage, power supply).
That its selling for a loss is pretty much a given I would think. Hemmoraging over $300/unit? Eh...$500M losses are possible given Sony's numbers for Q3. The numbers involved are huge. A couple hundred million difference disappears quickly in back of the envelope calculations.
Its not something that will last though. Costs will drop, prices will drop and the game division will be profitable again even after getting beat on by MS and Nintendo for a year or so.
Vinea
iSuppli is spotty. In this case the estimates seemed a little high. It would be surprising if the RSX was costing Sony $125 each or the case $90 (case, cage, power supply).
That its selling for a loss is pretty much a given I would think. Hemmoraging over $300/unit? Eh...$500M losses are possible given Sony's numbers for Q3. The numbers involved are huge. A couple hundred million difference disappears quickly in back of the envelope calculations.
Its not something that will last though. Costs will drop, prices will drop and the game division will be profitable again even after getting beat on by MS and Nintendo for a year or so.
Vinea
Around the ballpark of $250-$300/unit would also be my guess. I don't think the unit cost will drop as fast, though. At least, we are not likely to see any significant price drop throughout this year. I think the best cure for Sony would be getting the blockbuster PS3 games out there soon to even out the heavy loss.
So competent analysts are tell you that Sony's making money off PS3, and it cost $20 for BD drive... and 1080p video scaler cost more than the $20 BD drive?
Do you genuinely believe that a blue-violet laser costs $350? Hint: Sony makes them themselves—they can get them for about half the whole sale price. I'm guessing $20. This will come down to maybe $2 in a few years.
And it's not just a 1080 video scaler that's in stand-alone players. Look at what Macs are and aren't capable of decoding 1080p H.264 video. A stand-alone requires significant horse power—these typically were Pentium 4's. An analyst for iSuppli, of an HD-DVD player, "The Toshiba HD-A1 is basically a combination of a low-end PC and a high-end DVD player." They also had to pack significant amounts of RAM and other memory: $100 worth. Those are the numbers that they added into the PS3's Blu-ray cost figure.
The $800 number is just out-of-order. Let's take off $300 since the PS3 clearly doesn't have separate processors and RAM for it's Blu-ray drive. This brings us to $500—just over the cost of the low end, but still not profitable considering advertising, packaging, distributing, support, and other costs.
But IBM is already manufacturing 65 nm versions of the Cell. This is a 50% reduction in silicon, so already we can knock the price down from $230 to $170. Additionally, they've switched their PS2 support from hardware to software, a la the XBOX, saving another $30.
So at the European launch, it will be $90 cheaper. This is starting to push it into the realm of profitability—a $500 system that costs $410 to make.
Will prices drop soon? No. But they're not out of the question.
. . . And it's not just a 1080 video scaler that's in stand-alone players. Look at what Macs are and aren't capable of decoding 1080p H.264 video. A stand-alone requires significant horse power?these typically were Pentium 4's. An analyst for iSuppli, of an HD-DVD player, "The Toshiba HD-A1 is basically a combination of a low-end PC and a high-end DVD player."
Are you sure of that? I just read the thread about Apple adding a h.264 chip to all Macs. According to that discussion, coding and decoding is done in this chip, not a CPU. (If I understand it correctly.)
Do you genuinely believe that a blue-violet laser costs $350?
Sure. If you're talking about 30 or 40 watt output.
So at the European launch, it will be $90 cheaper. This is starting to push it into the realm of profitability?a $500 system that costs $410 to make.
Don't forget the Euro units will also drop the PS2 compatability chip for cost reasons.
Samsung delays their 2nd generation hardware and rumors pop up again about the possibility of a Universal player.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/03/14...ayer-still-po/
Samsung delays their 2nd generation hardware and rumors pop up again about the possibility of a Universal player.
I don't think you'll see hybrids win the day. You're not going to have one studio producing in one format and another in a different format and a third producing both formats in terms of content. One has to win. The hybrid players will sell to those who want Hi Def but don't want to be left stranded. It's not a long term solution.
Are you sure of that? I just read the thread about Apple adding a h.264 chip to all Macs. According to that discussion, coding and decoding is done in this chip, not a CPU. (If I understand it correctly.)
That rumor was made up by John Dvorak. Need I say more?
Edit: I will, anyway
They make no reference to 1080p, or even 720p. Although if they do happen, I'd assume the latter.
Finally, H.264 encoding on a specialized chip is available, AFAIK, and will come down in price. Also, most GPU's can also handle decoding. However, the analyst's note in question priced the PS3 based on then-current HD-DVD and Blu-ray players, most of which included Pentium 4's and similar chips—not particularly elegant designs.
If there is an H.264 chip in upcoming Macs, it'll be significantly more elegant and cheaper than most Blu-ray/HD-DVD players are right now.
Sure. If you're talking about 30 or 40 watt output.
We're trying to read discs, not burn down people's living rooms
Don't forget the Euro units will also drop the PS2 compatability chip for cost reasons.
*
Don't worry, I didn't, that saves a good $20-30 a unit.
wondering if anyone could offer a little advice
ok, i was in the local GAME yesterday and the guy "said" they had 100 pre orders "at the moment" and were expecting to fill all of those orders with stock.
ive been umming and ahhing about wheather to get one on release day, i was a Day One PS2 purchaser WAAAY back and i PLAN on getting one at some point soon, its just a matter of getting on on DayOne agian or not? is there any point? will i be dissapointed? is it worth it?
has anyone HERE got one and thinks i should go for it?
i cant work at the moment, (long drawn out recovery, long story) so i have time to kill.... PLENTY of time to kill
i dont really hang out on "gaming" forums so this is one of the few places i feel i can ask, and, despite the "widely differing views" on the 2 formats i would value some contribution from any and all poster here.
go on, help me decide on WHEN to go Blu-ray
thanks in advance
Rod
i suggest you do a quick search around some gaming sites like joystiq, ign, etc
you'll quickly realize there aren't many titles on the PS3 right now. everything worth getting is pretty much on the 360 or on both.
it used to be on the ps2 that sony would get all the great third party games first or just totally exclusive, thts not the case anymore. the 360 looks to have many great exclusives, and all the major titles that made the ps2 a big difference last gen are coming for both systems at the same time now.
that being said, i still think the ps3 will be the better system for RPG/japenese centric type of games, where the 360 will continue to dominate the shooters