IMO, there's two steps in winning. The first is when one of the HD formats either gives up or has such poor sales and studio support that it has become totally marginalized. The survivor then has achieved niche status.
my highlights
totally agree
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73
The real winning for the remaining HD format occurs when it outsells SD-DVD. Anybody think that's going to happen soon?
absolutely!
however i think the thread title implies that the "war" is between what are seen as the 2 "next Gen" formats... if and when one of them reaches "Mainstream" acceptance and or Dominance OVER DVD then that will be a different "win" altogether
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73
Even though Blu-ray seems to be ahead now, I've come to the conclusion that the winner, at least for 2007 is SD-DVD. I had been putting some money aside for a player and possibly a receiver upgrade, but after thinking about it, what with the format war, dearth of quality titles and how good up-converted SD-DVD looks on a 50" plasma, I ordered another L lens for my DSLR instead. HD formats can wait until 2008.
yeah, its small victorys to win the "war" and while one format seems to be ahead now, its still only a small victory on the way to market dominance
ME? i was gonna hold off, but at the moment im back on for getting a PS3 for games and movies, not launched here till the end of march.. ill see how the ques go and then when supply can meet initial demand i think i will get one...
hopefully in April... but my birthday is in May... so... i think i can treat myself then already got the TV so might as well.
Sorry it is 2:1 - my bad, but the ratio is based on the actually number of sold movies according to Nielsen VideoScan and not on Amazon ratings.
Yes I don't dispute the number for January. There were few HD DVD titles released. It wasn't like both formats were going balls out and Blu-ray just kicked arse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trendannoyer
so... now it sounds like you are saying ENDING the "war" is a bad thing??
honestly man, i think you must be the ONLY person who thinks that ending the "war" one way or another could be bad.
but even when you DO get hard data... you choose to ignore it.. or dont believe it, or turn it around .. or sometimes plain just dont respond.
I don't like the war but I do realize the benefits are likely better quality movies, lower prices and more titles due to the competition. There's a nice irony to the whole thing.
I don't ignore or disbelieve hard data. I merely question how the data came into existence. If someone tells me "Blu-ray is outselling HD DVD 3:1" then my next question is going to be "why?". That's just natural inquisitiveness.
I follow this battle quite closely so Its fairly easy for me to understand why current events have happened.
I don't like the war but I do realize the benefits are likely better quality movies, lower prices and more titles due to the competition. There's a nice irony to the whole thing.
So you're saying we would all have been better off if Divx had stuck around for the last decade or so?
So you're saying we would all have been better off if Divx had stuck around for the last decade or so?
No we would have been worse off. I think the DVD-Divx fiasco though pretty much confirmed that both Disney and Fox are extremely paranoid companies. Fox jumped to Blu-ray based on DRM features alone and Disney likely went over as well.
As companies they are my least favorite. I believe all companies have to look at for their best interests but it is possible to go to far IMO.
It seems to me you're happy to have a format war as long as it means HD DVD sticks around even if it's badly losing. But if HD DVD were to win, I get the impression you wouldn't be sad at all to see the format war end. You're not interested in competition. You just want the war to end with your side winning.
And what's with Comic Sans? One of the worst fonts ever made.
It seems to me you're happy to have a format war as long as it means HD DVD sticks around even if it's badly losing. But if HD DVD were to win, I get the impression you wouldn't be sad at all to see the format war end. You're not interested in competition. You just want the war to end with your side winning.
And what's with Comic Sans? One of the worst fonts ever made.
Nope...I did have animosity towards Blu-ray in the beginning but I realize that as the spec evolves and becomes more full featured and cheaper my "concerns" about it just seem to melt away. I still plan to support HD DVD for the near future as I believe it is the more complete format even today wrt to features and value. I don't have to win here...I'm going to win anyways when I get full HD movie access by 2008 anyways.
I'm just a bit of a contrarian. In the beginning people spoke as if HD DVD didn't even deserve to be on the playing field. When I looked beyond the 50GB discs I saw a rather incomplete format specification and I decided that I'd give HD DVD a chance. When they delivered good looking movies and affordable players I was sold.
It seems to me you're happy to have a format war as long as it means HD DVD sticks around even if it's badly losing.
But hmurchison is right: the format war HAS led to lower prices on hardware and software and probably to more titles as well. Did anyone honestly think, a year and half ago, that we'd already see players of either format selling for $400 and discs for $18? It wasn't so long ago that people thought discs would be $40 and I fully expected the cheapest player would be $800.
Hell, I'm tempted to pick up a couple of Blu-ray titles while they're on sale, even though I probably won't have a player until the end of the year. They're cheap enough that they're almost an impulse buy.
Meanwhile, I'll let y'all get back to your shrieking and hair-pulling while I watch "V for Vendetta" and rub my hands in anticipation of Universal's HD DVD releases of "Battlestar Galactica" and "Shaun of the Dead"...
But hmurchison is right: the format war HAS led to lower prices on hardware and software and probably to more titles as well. Did anyone honestly think, a year and half ago, that we'd already see players of either format selling for $400 and discs for $18? It wasn't so long ago that people thought discs would be $40 and I fully expected the cheapest player would be $800.
I don't know about 18 months ago, but 14 months ago, Murch was gloating over the $499 HD DVD players in this post. Notice his "Bwahahahaha." You'll excuse me if I get the mood all wrong, but it just feels like he fully expected the format war was over then and would have been very happy with it, judging from his "game over" and "match, set, HD DVD wins" comments. Of course, that was when he thought HD DVD was on top. Now that Blu-ray is winning, he wants the war to continue as long as possible.
But hmurchison is right: the format war HAS led to lower prices on hardware and software and probably to more titles as well. Did anyone honestly think, a year and half ago, that we'd already see players of either format selling for $400 and discs for $18? It wasn't so long ago that people thought discs would be $40 and I fully expected the cheapest player would be $800.
Hell, I'm tempted to pick up a couple of Blu-ray titles while they're on sale, even though I probably won't have a player until the end of the year. They're cheap enough that they're almost an impulse buy.
Meanwhile, I'll let y'all get back to your shrieking and hair-pulling while I watch "V for Vendetta" and rub my hands in anticipation of Universal's HD DVD releases of "Battlestar Galactica" and "Shaun of the Dead"...
Don't forget Heroes Season One either. That and BG are must haves for me based on recommendations from friends and Shaun of the Dead is another must have. I'm loving that pricing is so low. You can get a HD DVD player for $399 with 7 free movies. I'm taking advantage of that as soon as I can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak
I don't know about 18 months ago, but 14 months ago, Murch was gloating over the $499 HD DVD players in this post. Notice his "Bwahahahaha." You'll excuse me if I get the mood all wrong, but it just feels like he fully expected the format war was over then and would have been very happy with it, judging from his "game over" and "match, set, HD DVD wins" comments. Of course, that was when he thought HD DVD was on top. Now that Blu-ray is winning, he wants the war to continue as long as possible.
I knew the war wouldn't end. But it was a fun time because everyone else was stating that HD DVD didn't even belong in the same league as Blu-ray. If I could end the war tomorrow with HD DVD as the victory I would.
I don't like the war but I do realize the benefits are likely better quality movies, lower prices and more titles due to the competition. There's a nice irony to the whole thing.
I don't like the war but I do realize the benefits are likely better quality movies, lower prices and more titles due to the competition. There's a nice irony to the whole thing.
And we also get movies with lower bitrates than possible because of it.
Isn't all of this going to be a moot issue now that hybrid players are right around the corner and hybrid player/burners are sure to come out in '07
I hope you mean hybrid disks -- a disk that is both Blu-Ray and HD DVD -- because from what I understand, thats the whole reason WB is making that "hybrid disk"....because Sony has made it illegal to make a player that does both. Trust me, I read up on these things. But post a link if I'm wrong.
am actually a bit shocked to see a BD title CHEAPER than the DVD equivalent!!
ok, maybe im not as up on this as some, so its really no biggie, but if Sony continue to push the prices down like that... then it really IS only a matter of time... i KNOW 007:CR wont be on HD-DVD any time soon but if BD was supposed to be MORE expensive than HD-DVD then how come its cheaper than SD-DVD ??
I hope you mean hybrid disks -- a disk that is both Blu-Ray and HD DVD -- because from what I understand, thats the whole reason WB is making that "hybrid disk"....because Sony has made it illegal to make a player that does both. Trust me, I read up on these things. But post a link if I'm wrong.
Walt Mossberg of the Wall Street Journal just reviewed an LG unit. It's not a favorable review. And get this: he says a continuing format war isn't good for the consumer. What a shocker.
am actually a bit shocked to see a BD title CHEAPER than the DVD equivalent!!
ok, maybe im not as up on this as some, so its really no biggie, but if Sony continue to push the prices down like that... then it really IS only a matter of time... i KNOW 007:CR wont be on HD-DVD any time soon but if BD was supposed to be MORE expensive than HD-DVD then how come its cheaper than SD-DVD ??
"cool" though, isnt it
when Departed in HD-DVD was released at local BB, it was $22,99 which was cheaper than the special edition version in SD-DVD $24,99.
The prices really depends on the stores you shop. Some online shops usually have HD/BD movies for less than $15, but the selection is limited and out of stock most of the time. All in all, it's good to see competitive pricing compared to the SD-DVD. It's just too bad that all BD discs come region coded, which makes it difficult to import titles and enjoy them in states. I've had UK version of Harry Potter in HD-DVD for about 4 months now and be able to play it due to lack of region coding on all HD-DVD movies.
I don't know about 18 months ago, but 14 months ago, Murch was gloating over the $499 HD DVD players in this post. Notice his "Bwahahahaha."
But that's what I'm saying. Toshiba announced their pricing in advance of CES 2006. (If I'm wrong about that, someone will certainly correct me.) Prior to that, I would have bet that the cheapest player would be $799. I was floored when it came in at $499, and soon started showing up for closer to $400. Suddenly it became a very real thing, something I could buy NOW rather than in a few years.
I backed Blu-ray from the start. I thought, as did so many others, that the war was over before it had even begun, and that the combination of studio support and the PS3 was simply too much to overcome. But here's why my first next-gen player was an HD-A2: HD DVD came out of the gate and did everything right. The players were solid and reasonably priced, and the movies looked great. And the movies I wanted were largely from neutral studios or Universal.
You can say what you want about where Blu-ray is today, but the fact is, they had to play catch-up in a game that they were supposed to win without breaking a sweat. And I guarantee you that we would not have Sony (of all companies) talking about $500 players by Christmas and we would not be seeing $18 discs if Blu-ray had the market to itself. Hell, Sony is STILL complaining that DVD players dropped in price too fast and they couldn't make any money!
Don't forget Heroes Season One either. That and BG are must haves for me based on recommendations from friends and Shaun of the Dead is another must have.
"Heroes" is an absolute must. "Galactica" will be on the pre-order list as well - in part because my local cable station's Sci-Fi feed is so poor that the show usually looks like black mush. The rebroadcasts on Universal HD have really spoiled me. I'm trying to stop watching "Shaun of the Dead" so I can re-discover it on HD DVD, but that movie is like catnip for me. Cripes, just mentioning it makes me want to go watch it again.
Comments
IMO, there's two steps in winning. The first is when one of the HD formats either gives up or has such poor sales and studio support that it has become totally marginalized. The survivor then has achieved niche status.
my highlights
totally agree
The real winning for the remaining HD format occurs when it outsells SD-DVD. Anybody think that's going to happen soon?
absolutely!
however i think the thread title implies that the "war" is between what are seen as the 2 "next Gen" formats... if and when one of them reaches "Mainstream" acceptance and or Dominance OVER DVD then that will be a different "win" altogether
Even though Blu-ray seems to be ahead now, I've come to the conclusion that the winner, at least for 2007 is SD-DVD. I had been putting some money aside for a player and possibly a receiver upgrade, but after thinking about it, what with the format war, dearth of quality titles and how good up-converted SD-DVD looks on a 50" plasma, I ordered another L lens for my DSLR instead. HD formats can wait until 2008.
yeah, its small victorys to win the "war" and while one format seems to be ahead now, its still only a small victory on the way to market dominance
ME? i was gonna hold off, but at the moment im back on for getting a PS3 for games and movies, not launched here till the end of march.. ill see how the ques go
hopefully in April... but my birthday is in May... so... i think i can treat myself then
Sorry it is 2:1 - my bad, but the ratio is based on the actually number of sold movies according to Nielsen VideoScan and not on Amazon ratings.
Yes I don't dispute the number for January. There were few HD DVD titles released. It wasn't like both formats were going balls out and Blu-ray just kicked arse.
so... now it sounds like you are saying ENDING the "war" is a bad thing??
honestly man, i think you must be the ONLY person who thinks that ending the "war" one way or another could be bad.
but even when you DO get hard data... you choose to ignore it.. or dont believe it, or turn it around .. or sometimes plain just dont respond.
I don't like the war but I do realize the benefits are likely better quality movies, lower prices and more titles due to the competition. There's a nice irony to the whole thing.
I don't ignore or disbelieve hard data. I merely question how the data came into existence. If someone tells me "Blu-ray is outselling HD DVD 3:1" then my next question is going to be "why?". That's just natural inquisitiveness.
I follow this battle quite closely so Its fairly easy for me to understand why current events have happened.
I don't like the war but I do realize the benefits are likely better quality movies, lower prices and more titles due to the competition. There's a nice irony to the whole thing.
So you're saying we would all have been better off if Divx had stuck around for the last decade or so?
So you're saying we would all have been better off if Divx had stuck around for the last decade or so?
No we would have been worse off. I think the DVD-Divx fiasco though pretty much confirmed that both Disney and Fox are extremely paranoid companies. Fox jumped to Blu-ray based on DRM features alone and Disney likely went over as well.
As companies they are my least favorite. I believe all companies have to look at for their best interests but it is possible to go to far IMO.
And what's with Comic Sans? One of the worst fonts ever made.
It seems to me you're happy to have a format war as long as it means HD DVD sticks around even if it's badly losing. But if HD DVD were to win, I get the impression you wouldn't be sad at all to see the format war end. You're not interested in competition. You just want the war to end with your side winning.
And what's with Comic Sans? One of the worst fonts ever made.
Nope...I did have animosity towards Blu-ray in the beginning but I realize that as the spec evolves and becomes more full featured and cheaper my "concerns" about it just seem to melt away. I still plan to support HD DVD for the near future as I believe it is the more complete format even today wrt to features and value. I don't have to win here...I'm going to win anyways when I get full HD movie access by 2008 anyways.
I'm just a bit of a contrarian. In the beginning people spoke as if HD DVD didn't even deserve to be on the playing field. When I looked beyond the 50GB discs I saw a rather incomplete format specification and I decided that I'd give HD DVD a chance. When they delivered good looking movies and affordable players I was sold.
It seems to me you're happy to have a format war as long as it means HD DVD sticks around even if it's badly losing.
But hmurchison is right: the format war HAS led to lower prices on hardware and software and probably to more titles as well. Did anyone honestly think, a year and half ago, that we'd already see players of either format selling for $400 and discs for $18? It wasn't so long ago that people thought discs would be $40 and I fully expected the cheapest player would be $800.
Hell, I'm tempted to pick up a couple of Blu-ray titles while they're on sale, even though I probably won't have a player until the end of the year. They're cheap enough that they're almost an impulse buy.
Meanwhile, I'll let y'all get back to your shrieking and hair-pulling while I watch "V for Vendetta" and rub my hands in anticipation of Universal's HD DVD releases of "Battlestar Galactica" and "Shaun of the Dead"...
But hmurchison is right: the format war HAS led to lower prices on hardware and software and probably to more titles as well. Did anyone honestly think, a year and half ago, that we'd already see players of either format selling for $400 and discs for $18? It wasn't so long ago that people thought discs would be $40 and I fully expected the cheapest player would be $800.
I don't know about 18 months ago, but 14 months ago, Murch was gloating over the $499 HD DVD players in this post. Notice his "Bwahahahaha." You'll excuse me if I get the mood all wrong, but it just feels like he fully expected the format war was over then and would have been very happy with it, judging from his "game over" and "match, set, HD DVD wins" comments. Of course, that was when he thought HD DVD was on top. Now that Blu-ray is winning, he wants the war to continue as long as possible.
But hmurchison is right: the format war HAS led to lower prices on hardware and software and probably to more titles as well. Did anyone honestly think, a year and half ago, that we'd already see players of either format selling for $400 and discs for $18? It wasn't so long ago that people thought discs would be $40 and I fully expected the cheapest player would be $800.
Hell, I'm tempted to pick up a couple of Blu-ray titles while they're on sale, even though I probably won't have a player until the end of the year. They're cheap enough that they're almost an impulse buy.
Meanwhile, I'll let y'all get back to your shrieking and hair-pulling while I watch "V for Vendetta" and rub my hands in anticipation of Universal's HD DVD releases of "Battlestar Galactica" and "Shaun of the Dead"...
Don't forget Heroes Season One either. That and BG are must haves for me based on recommendations from friends and Shaun of the Dead is another must have. I'm loving that pricing is so low. You can get a HD DVD player for $399 with 7 free movies. I'm taking advantage of that as soon as I can.
I don't know about 18 months ago, but 14 months ago, Murch was gloating over the $499 HD DVD players in this post. Notice his "Bwahahahaha." You'll excuse me if I get the mood all wrong, but it just feels like he fully expected the format war was over then and would have been very happy with it, judging from his "game over" and "match, set, HD DVD wins" comments. Of course, that was when he thought HD DVD was on top. Now that Blu-ray is winning, he wants the war to continue as long as possible.
I knew the war wouldn't end. But it was a fun time because everyone else was stating that HD DVD didn't even belong in the same league as Blu-ray. If I could end the war tomorrow with HD DVD as the victory I would.
I don't like the war but I do realize the benefits are likely better quality movies, lower prices and more titles due to the competition. There's a nice irony to the whole thing.
the bold text is something we can agree on
If I could end the war tomorrow with HD DVD as the victory I would.
Proving Kolchak's point.
I don't like the war but I do realize the benefits are likely better quality movies, lower prices and more titles due to the competition. There's a nice irony to the whole thing.
And we also get movies with lower bitrates than possible because of it.
Isn't all of this going to be a moot issue now that hybrid players are right around the corner and hybrid player/burners are sure to come out in '07
I hope you mean hybrid disks -- a disk that is both Blu-Ray and HD DVD -- because from what I understand, thats the whole reason WB is making that "hybrid disk"....because Sony has made it illegal to make a player that does both. Trust me, I read up on these things. But post a link if I'm wrong.
am actually a bit shocked to see a BD title CHEAPER than the DVD equivalent!!
ok, maybe im not as up on this as some, so its really no biggie, but if Sony continue to push the prices down like that... then it really IS only a matter of time... i KNOW 007:CR wont be on HD-DVD any time soon
"cool" though, isnt it
I hope you mean hybrid disks -- a disk that is both Blu-Ray and HD DVD -- because from what I understand, thats the whole reason WB is making that "hybrid disk"....because Sony has made it illegal to make a player that does both. Trust me, I read up on these things. But post a link if I'm wrong.
Walt Mossberg of the Wall Street Journal just reviewed an LG unit. It's not a favorable review. And get this: he says a continuing format war isn't good for the consumer. What a shocker.
just got this in my email
am actually a bit shocked to see a BD title CHEAPER than the DVD equivalent!!
ok, maybe im not as up on this as some, so its really no biggie, but if Sony continue to push the prices down like that... then it really IS only a matter of time... i KNOW 007:CR wont be on HD-DVD any time soon
"cool" though, isnt it
when Departed in HD-DVD was released at local BB, it was $22,99 which was cheaper than the special edition version in SD-DVD $24,99.
The prices really depends on the stores you shop. Some online shops usually have HD/BD movies for less than $15, but the selection is limited and out of stock most of the time. All in all, it's good to see competitive pricing compared to the SD-DVD. It's just too bad that all BD discs come region coded, which makes it difficult to import titles and enjoy them in states. I've had UK version of Harry Potter in HD-DVD for about 4 months now and be able to play it due to lack of region coding on all HD-DVD movies.
Proving Kolchak's point.
Yes. It's not wrong to have a preference.
And we also get movies with lower bitrates than possible because of it.
I only need enough bits to capture the movie with a minimum of fidelity loss. I watch movies I don't watch specs.
I don't know about 18 months ago, but 14 months ago, Murch was gloating over the $499 HD DVD players in this post. Notice his "Bwahahahaha."
But that's what I'm saying. Toshiba announced their pricing in advance of CES 2006. (If I'm wrong about that, someone will certainly correct me.) Prior to that, I would have bet that the cheapest player would be $799. I was floored when it came in at $499, and soon started showing up for closer to $400. Suddenly it became a very real thing, something I could buy NOW rather than in a few years.
I backed Blu-ray from the start. I thought, as did so many others, that the war was over before it had even begun, and that the combination of studio support and the PS3 was simply too much to overcome. But here's why my first next-gen player was an HD-A2: HD DVD came out of the gate and did everything right. The players were solid and reasonably priced, and the movies looked great. And the movies I wanted were largely from neutral studios or Universal.
You can say what you want about where Blu-ray is today, but the fact is, they had to play catch-up in a game that they were supposed to win without breaking a sweat. And I guarantee you that we would not have Sony (of all companies) talking about $500 players by Christmas and we would not be seeing $18 discs if Blu-ray had the market to itself. Hell, Sony is STILL complaining that DVD players dropped in price too fast and they couldn't make any money!
Don't forget Heroes Season One either. That and BG are must haves for me based on recommendations from friends and Shaun of the Dead is another must have.
"Heroes" is an absolute must. "Galactica" will be on the pre-order list as well - in part because my local cable station's Sci-Fi feed is so poor that the show usually looks like black mush. The rebroadcasts on Universal HD have really spoiled me. I'm trying to stop watching "Shaun of the Dead" so I can re-discover it on HD DVD, but that movie is like catnip for me. Cripes, just mentioning it makes me want to go watch it again.